Using operant conditioning and dealing with disrespect with girls in autoreject

[Peter6234]

So when a girls in auto-reject and putting no effort into an interaction, it's hard to keep it going without chasing and rewarding bad behaviour with attention - so I'm left wondering how you can try to rebuild comfort and somehow get her qualifying and complying so you can try to reward her - when most of her actions call for you to act even more disinterested?

It's hard to find things to reward her for and then run the risk of rewarding her pulling away from you with attention, when shes not making eye contact when you're talking (so you can't even use facial expressions as a low effort response e.g. bored look), acting distracted, talking to you when her back is to you as shes doing other stuff without even looking at you when you're talking. Should this be treated as a test e.g. "Hey, where I'm from people look at each other when they are talking!" or just end conversation/ignore?

Then there's dealing with disrespect because shes attacking your value, acting passive aggressive - once again can't use facial expressions; and calling her out on being rude or making her out to be socially awkward in a group scenario may make your attainability crash even further but you can't let her disrespect you - so spend the end result was us spending the evening ignoring each other and talking to other people

At one point I did manage to bring it back by getting her to qualify and she warmed up and I managed to build some sexual tension, but then she quickly flipped and slept with another guy and made sure that I knew, so I made sure I didn't react, did something with another girl and she went even colder. She was obviously trying to get a reaction and get me chasing, but the standard reaction of ignoring girls who try to make you jealous and talking to other girls instead just made her go colder

I'm sure that strong emotions are better than no emotions, but they are just all negative, and can't really go with a friendly or fun/sexy vibe until comfort has recovered as her behaviour hasn't earned it - do the standard reactions to bad behaviour, attempts at jealous, and disrespect change in the context of autorejection?

 

[pinpin]

If she's not engaging you in convo at all, looking away etc etc, she's almost certainly just not into you, so just eject. Not worth wasting your time on girls who aren't interested in you in that way. It's a number game.

 

[Fluxcapacitor]

@Peter6234 dude! There's a few ways to deal with auto rejection and the principles don't necessarily change. First and foremost proximity. If she's turning away and getting away from you this is hard, a girl in auto rejection will make it hard for this.

Secondly social proof and preselection, being seen with other girls but you still need to patch things up. This runs the risk of jealousy plot lines and if they're really annoyed and cold they'll run them back. She did, she slept with someone. Unless you are strictly casual and you're not expecting her to be loyal to you this is disrespectful and I'd get rid of her for this personally. It means she's lost respect for you and once this happens it's game over, move on. If you're casual and you know you're both free to meet anyone else she could be a fun fuck buddy again...

Once this happens you can't react but you can't chase her. Be social but nothing else, she doesn't deserve you being warm. If she realises she likes you she'll come back if not, it doesn't matter.

You've possibly missed the turn around. If you fuck up and she's in auto rejection use the turn around. There's an article on it but in summary

Pace her reality - I didn't mean it like that, explain why you did what you did.
Give a sincere compliment - I think you're cool, I really like hanging out with you.
Offer an olive branch - come on I'll get you a drink.

You also need to consider why she's in auto rejection. If she's annoyed because she wanted more from you and she realised she won't get it you need to be warmer here to turn it around, if she's in auto rejection because of a comment you made this is something else. Context is key dude

 

[Glow]

Sounds like youre both reactive to each other in a very tense way both sides

in my experience the best thing is to defuse the drama eg. by being genuine and humble
low key and content, in a connective way.

you need to set it up and lead her into it

this + a little pause before you answer can provide for a power change, holding the vacuum not changing your facial features an inch
while maintaining the genuine humble vibe

Forget all this earned it thinking. Imo its a bad place to come from if she has this back heel agitated vibe.

girls like this, even professionals change a lot if you stick to calm, cool and genuine

lead the vibe into a better place, calming her down, then lead a more connective game

switch from outside to inside game

 

[Velasco]

So when a girls in auto-reject and putting no effort into an interaction, it's hard to keep it going without chasing and rewarding bad behaviour with attention - so I'm left wondering how you can try to rebuild comfort and somehow get her qualifying and complying so you can try to reward her - when most of her actions call for you to act even more disinterested?

The problem here is that the way your thinking about this won't allowing you to take proper action.

see, if your mental model goes, attention = reward, then you won't make the effort to build comfort with her (which REQUIRES attention), and get her to qualify/defend her, so that you can THEN reward (the goal of a reward is to make her feel good about defending herself. So when you think of "rewards" this way, you can see that they are not limited to "wow that's amazing!") her.

So when she goes into auto-rejection (acts distracted, negs you back) from you saying/doing something she didn't like,

you can either

1) immediately apologize without "apologizing" (NO, "oh my god i'm so sorry. please forgive me".....lol) and let her know that you know what you just did was retarded, then give her a sincere compliment. (I will give an example of this at the bottom)

or

2) Get her to defend herself by misinterpreting the situation, in a way where she has to correct said misinterpretation (her: "no, its just that I blah blah") then jump on that (if you didn't notice, she just qualified herself here broski) and frame it as THAT'S is the reason you said that thing she didn't like ("ohhh fuck see i didn't know that") so she can't be mad anymore (because "oh he just didn't understand. now he does because i explained the situation to him"....when obviously i did. it was just a failed neg hit on my part lol) then change the subject.

example of the 1st auto-rejection recovery tactic:

i had mentioned to my girl, that i wanted to know if her uterus had healed yet from the pounding i gave it. She then told me that her uterus had in fact healed the following day, so I interpreted/responded as if she was qualifying herself to me (instead of her making it seem like I didn't fuck her hard enough to where her uterus still hurts), with "good. i need a girl who can take a pounding".

she then followed that up by shit testing me with "you don't have a filter do you?"

i said, "haha didn't mean to get u wet" (which is answering her question without answering her question)

she then went into auto-rejection, "that was my period not you" with the peace sign emoji

now my auto-rejection response

lol i know silly. im just being a dickhead (apologize without "apologizing")

i know girls shouldn't be fucking while on their periods because they can't keep going past 2 rounds without experiencing severe pain inside their body (showing her "I get it"). buuuut you looked too good i couldn't help myself" shrug shoulders emoji (sincere compliment)

and then to that, with her ego now satisfied, she responded with, "at the risk of inflating your ego, the pain wasn't because of my period. you're a big guy" to bring my value back up.

I responded, "obviously "

 

[Peter6234]

@Peter6234
You've possibly missed the turn around. If you fuck up and she's in auto rejection use the turn around. There's an article on it but in summary

Pace her reality - I didn't mean it like that, explain why you did what you did.
Give a sincere compliment - I think you're cool, I really like hanging out with you.
Offer an olive branch - come on I'll get you a drink.

You also need to consider why she's in auto rejection. If she's annoyed because she wanted more from you and she realised she won't get it you need to be warmer here to turn it around, if she's in auto rejection because of a comment you made this is something else. Context is key dude

The problem here is that the way your thinking about this won't allowing you to take proper action.

see, if your mental model goes, attention = reward, then you won't make the effort to build comfort with her (which REQUIRES attention), and get her to qualify/defend her, so that you can THEN reward (the goal of a reward is to make her feel good about defending herself. So when you think of "rewards" this way, you can see that they are not limited to "wow that's amazing!") her.

The girl is a housemate, my only goal with her is to practice applying the principles on the site to social interactions.
I think being able to turn around her mood and getting her feeling good feelings etc will be good practice and test my understanding of the basics and help me improve on dealing with women acting this way in general

When I first met her I knew nothing about operant conditioning, dealing with disrespect, etc. She was quite rude to me so I took her aside and told her that's not ok. She then started trying to compete with me and attacking my value - which I eventually realised was because she was in autoreject because my attainability was too low, not because I was low value.

I've noticed that after working on my fundamentals direct disrespect from her has vanished, but I've been trying to reward good behaviour with attention and punish bad behaviour by paying less attention - but then this leads to the situation you have described - the vibe is quite tense and I can't pay attention to her beyond a quick compliance test to see if there's anything I can reward for - but if I just ignore rewarding and punishing (by this I mean paying less attention when she acts distracted or cold) and just pay attention to someone acting cold and distracted surely that goes against all of the principles?

I made sure to never do social nights out with her to stay on the periphery of the social circle, and I noticed she was trying to compete with me as to who had the best night out and then she started jealousy plotlines - brought a guy back with her and made sure I could her moaning, so the next night I brought a girl back and she definitely knew and went stone cold - I can't exactly do a turn around because there's nothing in particular to talk about. The closest I got to a turn around was qualifying her on something and she massively warmed up and loads of sexual tension built up - but then she flipped and went cold again.

I'm just trying to think about how to behave in this situation - friendly/upbeat positive vibe - then escalate the vibe and reward for good behaviour if she ever shows any - which is difficult when she constantly acts distracted and kills proximity? And as for her acting distracted - would this be treated like a test e.g. hey, could you look at me when we're talking?

Sounds like youre both reactive to each other in a very tense way both sides

in my experience the best thing is to defuse the drama eg. by being genuine and humble
low key and content, in a connective way.

you need to set it up and lead her into it

Forget all this earned it thinking. Imo its a bad place to come from if she has this back heel agitated vibe.

I mean the vibe is tense, and she does have a back heel agitated vibe, I'm just trying to not let her vibe rub off on me and have a friendly vibe - and then look for things to reward her for to try and change her mood - because I was thinking suddenly switching and giving her loads of positive attention when she's acting cold and distracted is just chasing

 

[Velasco]

the vibe is quite tense and I can't pay attention to her beyond a quick compliance test to see if there's anything I can reward for - but if I just ignore rewarding and punishing (by this I mean paying less attention when she acts distracted or cold) and just pay attention to someone acting cold and distracted surely that goes against all of the principles?

When someone acts cold/goes into auto-rejection as a direct result of a certain action of yours (said or did something), is when you should apply what i suggested.

When someone is cold/distracted without you doing anything to trigger that response in her, is when you should ignore her. Don't let it affect you. Your still gonna be a friendly guy to her (cause that's just who you are with everyone) but if she wants to be cold, then let her be cold, while you go on about your day.

I don't see this issue being resolved in a single afternoon (the damage is already done), so treat this as long game. where eventually somewhere down the line, she will come to the realization that being warm to you, is what gets her what she wants: attention