FU Very uneventful but quite fun activity date

[raiden]

Note that I've received a lot of feedback recently for some other recent dates. This date came soon after those so I didn't have a chance to attempt to incorporate the feedback. This date summary might be quite similar to my others.

I found this woman on an online dating system. She suggested that we have a call because she dislikes texting so our interaction before the date was a 30-40 minutes call (perhaps too long). I mention this because we can consider the call a quasi first date, and the date here a second date.

I had planned to take her to the arcade. She agreed but then later suggested that we stop off at a cafe and then go to the arcade. I wasn't sure about this because it would make the date last too long, but I couldn't find a way to say no to it well over text, so I acquiesced.

On the day, she had some transport issues that affected her travel to the cafe. She called up and I suggested that we just refine the plan to go only to the arcade and she agreed. So now I don't have to worry about the date running too long or spending time outside in a winter coat and hat, which probably don't compliment my fundamentals.

We meet at the arcade and she greets with a hug. I tried to do the hand clasp and kind of did but she turned it into a hand shake. We walk into the arcade and it's pretty quiet. We buy some beverages and sit down. I think that I complimented and touched once more before we sat down. There was one bench and one chair and I was thinking to move the chair so that it's at right angles to, not opposite. But she sat down on the chair before I could!

We chatted about basic stuff. I don't think that I deep dived or teased well. Actually, I think that I'm somehow still a bit tired out from the 2 dates already this year where I tried hard but came up short. I found out about her first boyfriend, her family's expectations of her and what she is working towards. After around 35 minutes here, we went to play some games.

She seemed to enjoy the games. She's definitely the most proficient gamer out of all the people I've hung out with here, so she won a few and beat me in a few. Once in a while, when we were waiting for a game, we'd go back to the chitchat.

After around 1 hour of gaming, we said goodbye. It was another hug goodbye.

Total date time was around 2 hours. This seems to read like a bad date but I actually had a date just like this in October /November last year (didn't write a field report) and the woman agreed to and came out on another date. That second date was a dud dinner date, but the fact is that the woman had enjoyed the first date and seemed excited over text to come out on the second. Back then I don't know if it was luck or if, when I wasn't too energised for the first date I ended up adhering to the principles of the law of least effort better.

Questions.
1. I seem to be going for second and third dates but they never happen. It seems like if I like a woman and want to see her again, I need to have a structured date and locate the date close to one of our places. This was not ; it was equidistant between us with each of us having a 30-50 minutes journey home in opposite directions. So do I just have to stop setting dates at this venue due to its location?

2. If I have an activity date (e.g. I've done crazy golf, video game arcade and art gallery) there's usually a phase of the date where we're just sitting at the cafe or beverage area and talking, and a phase where we're doing the activity. This seems natural to me but is it optimal? What order should I try to do it in? Could it be improved by e.g. starting with the activity and then bouncing to a new venue for the sit-down phase? Or would that prolong the date excessively even further?

 

[gameboy]

Kudos for getting all these women out on a date in so short order!

I'm wondering, are you actually attracted to the women you meet? Because you never seem to describe them physically.

As for the answers to your questions, I'm afraid I can't be of much help because your goals (slow-gaming a girl and maximizing number of dates) seem to be different from most people's here on the forum. I really don't have any experiences with slow-gaming.

 

[gameboy]

Also, why is this a FU? You had fun, she had fun, did anything happen that was contrary to your expectations?

 

[StrayDog]

For real man, you need to stop referring to your god given looks as your "fundamentals." There is nothing you can do about them so just learn to accept them. All these women have come on a date you for a reason, so you just have to trust that they see something attractive in you.

Fundamentals as we talk about here refers to things like
-your posture
-your fashion sense
-your vocal delivery
-your presence

All these things have a great deal of impact on How you present to women. But you apparently don't care to work on these things, as @Surveyor recently suggested that to you and you practically scoffed at him saying "any fool can do those things." As if they were meaningless.

For real, you are the king of shooting yourself in the foot. All of these failed dates, over, and over, and over. And you just do the same thing over, and over and over. All the while, these women coming out on dates with, clearly showing interest in you, spending all this time with you.

And you just keep ignoring all the signals, all the opportunities, dragging things out until there is no steam left.

I think a lot of the trouble you are running into comes not as much from your technique (while there is certainly ton for you to work on). But your mindset. You stubbornly cling to your ideas of how things are or aught to be. You don't seem to actually challenge your conceptions of what it actually means to seduce a women, to spend time with a women, to truly get to know a women. Instead you cling to this ridged conception of what a relationship would mean for your life. All the while pushing away the real world opportunities to explore that.

You mentioned a women you slept with 3 years ago, and how difficult it was when she had all these expectations of you afterward. Well guess what man? That's all part of the process. That's how you get to know people, date them, find out what sort of partner suits you and who doesn't. You have to get your hands dirty. Face rejections, face having to reject people. Over time you learn how to set better expectations and boundaries. You learn what it actually means to relate.

The chances of you magically meeting one women who happens to be the perfect fit for you, without actually making moves, getting actual experience of what it means to relate to women. Reference points of what you are looking for in a partner, based on actual real world relating, and not just some ideal in your head. Slim chances. Very slim chances.

I think a lot of your trouble is coming from your own ambivalence, your unwillingness to take action. To really dive in.

You take everything so seriously. Every little thing. Not only being rejected (for real dude, you keep lamenting the fact that two girls came to your place and left soon after arriving. Do you know how many times that sort of thing has happened to most of us on here?). But also silly small inconsequential things, like a game of put put golf, or the fact that a she is having a hard time finding her car as you are parting ways.

Women don't want to be with guys that take every little thing so seriously. They want men who add levity to their lives.

They can sense your desperation, your incongruence, your ambivalence.

They leave these dates confused because you present one one, then another. You seem confident, then you back track. You seem interested but you don't move things forward.

They lose interest because there is no indication that things are really headed anywhere meaningful.

They don't feel comfortable going further with because the can't get a real sense of who you are and where you are coming from.

It's almost as though you have shrouded your god given instincts in a mountain of over thinking, unrealistic projections, and backwards rationalisations.

I am not proposing I know what the solution to all this is. But I can tell you that no matter how far technical game can take you (to be certain, it can take you rather far), it will never remedy whatever this hang up is in your mindset. That is something that will get in your way time and time again.

Because in the end, you need your instincts and the gumption to act on them. Which you seek to have largely lost touch with.

Again, I don't have the solutions here, but I have seen tons of suggestions on this forum that you seem to brush off. Like @Skills has mentioned many many times the book psycho cybernetics as a way to potentially address some of these issues. But you don't seem to have taken to reading it.

Or @Surveyor suggested working on your fundamentals (as we talk about them here, not your god given facial features), as a means of technically I proving your game and basically brushed his suggestion off.

I have offered countless tactics you can begin to implement, and yet you insist on running the exact same date again and again and again.

There is only so much we can do for you here, so many solutions we can provide, if you are not coming up with some of the solutions for your self. Experimenting with new things. Getting new results.

I mean, @Surveyor even suggested you keep a lot on lessons you have learned at instead of coming up with practical useful lessons you have learned, and the list you provided was basically a pity party about how girls will be excited and you will screw it up any way. Surely you have learned more than that on these dates.

If not, I am really not sure how much we can help you.

I am not saying we don't want to (well maybe some of us more than others). It's just there is only so much we can do, if you are not doing it for yourself.

Just going on the same date again and again and again, and insisting that the situation is hopeless, and insisting it is because things you can't change, like your height, and your facial structure (even though you seem to get at least one women on a date a week???). In my humble opinion, that is not doing it for yourself.

Next time, come at us with something. Maybe we can help you better then.

 

[raiden]

For real man, you need to stop referring to your god given looks as your "fundamentals." There is nothing you can do about them so just learn to accept them. All these women have come on a date you for a reason, so you just have to trust that they see something attractive in you.

Fundamentals as we talk about here refers to things like
-your posture
-your fashion sense
-your vocal delivery
-your presence

All these things have a great deal of impact on How you present to women. But you apparently don't care to work on these things, as @Surveyor recently suggested that to you and you practically scoffed at him saying "any fool can do those things." As if they were meaningless.

For real, you are the king of shooting yourself in the foot. All of these failed dates, over, and over, and over. And you just do the same thing over, and over and over. All the while, these women coming out on dates with, clearly showing interest in you, spending all this time with you.

And you just keep ignoring all the signals, all the opportunities, dragging things out until there is no steam left.

I think a lot of the trouble you are running into comes not as much from your technique (while there is certainly ton for you to work on). But your mindset. You stubbornly cling to your ideas of how things are or aught to be. You don't seem to actually challenge your conceptions of what it actually means to seduce a women, to spend time with a women, to truly get to know a women. Instead you cling to this ridged conception of what a relationship would mean for your life. All the while pushing away the real world opportunities to explore that.

You mentioned a women you slept with 3 years ago, and how difficult it was when she had all these expectations of you afterward. Well guess what man? That's all part of the process. That's how you get to know people, date them, find out what sort of partner suits you and who doesn't. You have to get your hands dirty. Face rejections, face having to reject people. Over time you learn how to set better expectations and boundaries. You learn what it actually means to relate.

The chances of you magically meeting one women who happens to be the perfect fit for you, without actually making moves, getting actual experience of what it means to relate to women. Reference points of what you are looking for in a partner, based on actual real world relating, and not just some ideal in your head. Slim chances. Very slim chances.

I think a lot of your trouble is coming from your own ambivalence, your unwillingness to take action. To really dive in.

You take everything so seriously. Every little thing. Not only being rejected (for real dude, you keep lamenting the fact that two girls came to your place and left soon after arriving. Do you know how many times that sort of thing has happened to most of us on here?). But also silly small inconsequential things, like a game of put put golf, or the fact that a she is having a hard time finding her car as you are parting ways.

Women don't want to be with guys that take every little thing so seriously. They want men who add levity to their lives.

They can sense your desperation, your incongruence, your ambivalence.

They leave these dates confused because you present one one, then another. You seem confident, then you back track. You seem interested but you don't move things forward.

They lose interest because there is no indication that things are really headed anywhere meaningful.

They don't feel comfortable going further with because the can't get a real sense of who you are and where you are coming from.

It's almost as though you have shrouded your god given instincts in a mountain of over thinking, unrealistic projections, and backwards rationalisations.

I am not proposing I know what the solution to all this is. But I can tell you that no matter how far technical game can take you (to be certain, it can take you rather far), it will never remedy whatever this hang up is in your mindset. That is something that will get in your way time and time again.

Because in the end, you need your instincts and the gumption to act on them. Which you seek to have largely lost touch with.

Again, I don't have the solutions here, but I have seen tons of suggestions on this forum that you seem to brush off. Like @Skills has mentioned many many times the book psycho cybernetics as a way to potentially address some of these issues. But you don't seem to have taken to reading it.

Or @Surveyor suggested working on your fundamentals (as we talk about them here, not your god given facial features), as a means of technically I proving your game and basically brushed his suggestion off.

I have offered countless tactics you can begin to implement, and yet you insist on running the exact same date again and again and again.

There is only so much we can do for you here, so many solutions we can provide, if you are not coming up with some of the solutions for your self. Experimenting with new things. Getting new results.

I mean, @Surveyor even suggested you keep a lot on lessons you have learned at instead of coming up with practical useful lessons you have learned, and the list you provided was basically a pity party about how girls will be excited and you will screw it up any way. Surely you have learned more than that on these dates.

If not, I am really not sure how much we can help you.

I am not saying we don't want to (well maybe some of us more than others). It's just there is only so much we can do, if you are not doing it for yourself.

Just going on the same date again and again and again, and insisting that the situation is hopeless, and insisting it is because things you can't change, like your height, and your facial structure (even though you seem to get at least one women on a date a week???). In my humble opinion, that is not doing it for yourself.

Next time, come at us with something. Maybe we can help you better then.

Regarding the 4 listed fundamentals, I've done some work on that. My fashion was vetted by my coaches. My posture is bolstered by my daily mobility and weight training. My voice was approved by the vocal coach. I may not be using them well on the date, and this is probably down to the 4th one, presence, which I don't have and know very little about.

I put right at the start of the post that this post will not show any learning from everybody's suggestions because the date came too soon after the suggestions that I got here. I really want to do a date where I bring the woman back and have her run off again, just to show you all. That's win win for me! More seriously, it'll be a new problem that we can troubleshoot.

I am uncertain and lost in life here and that's because I really don't know whether I just want validation (attractive girl spending time with me), or a lay or a wife /girlfriend. I feel like if I had been more successful with women, I would be able to answer which one I want, but no. I'm way behind where I need to be for my age (over 30 never had a girlfriend) and I'm definitely hiding this from the women.

The women all look good in their own way. They're not like the woman from the past. These women are slim or average build, and pretty. Some have good styling and makeup and some have plain styling but pretty features, cute smile etc. I actually showed my friend some photos of these women and he thought that they looked pretty too.

I read Psycho Cybernetics a few years ago and the imagination exercises did nothing for me. Wasn't it debunked as pseudo science now? Do you not agree with my premise about this mindset stuff? That is, all I need is a success, which could happen with some mechanical technical game and a lot of luck, and then the mindset will sort itself out.

I wish I could say that I learned from the dates but I didn't. I've been having dates like these for years, going back to the time of the old GC forum, and Hector launching GC on YouTube. It must be well in excess of 50 screwed up dates now. I've learned nothing because you don't get any feedback. In the same year, I had a date where the woman wanted to go home 10 minutes in and another date that was restaurant + bar with public kissing in the bar that felt enthusiastic. Intuitively the second described date went better than the first but since the outcome was the same (no further contact from the woman), I can't confirm that and therefore can't really learn much except that both dates were bad.

I know that even Chase himself wants me to succeed. He wrote the step by step guide for me. I hope that I can do better. By posting these date summaries here, I'm finally getting some feedback and can learn lessons. I do like many of these women and feel bad after a bad date that I let them down. Worst of all, I'm letting myself down with these duds.

 

[raiden]

I had a second date with her. Here is the write up. It was a screw up but let's see if I can learn from it. Looking back, I'm lucky to have gotten a second date at all.

Backstory :

We had planned another activity date for last week (weekend date) . I had restrictions in my schedule and she tried to work around them. So I thought that she wanted to see me and that I really should set the date. In the end I set the date but she had to cancel with illness. I waited a few days and then asked to set up another date. She then suggested a weekday after work. I usually hate this time slot because
-poor logistics if you meet near your respective workplaces
-tired at the end of the day
-need to get home on time as it gets late
But I felt like I had to take this date or lose too much momentum in the courtship. So I took the date. I figured that even if I killed off all momentum and got rejected, it was better to kill off the lead before pursuing new ones. Also, this is a second date but I treated it like a third because I remember that we had bad a 30-40 minutes phone call before the first date and this can almost count as a first date itself. Then we met once and this is our second meet.

The date :

I met her at the metro station. I greeted with a hug then held her hand loosely for a moment before releasing it as we walked. I took her to eat burgers. It was standard conversation. How was your day etc. I complimented her for her style and the way that she presented herself. Have to keep up the attainability I thought. I found out a bit but not enough about her logistics. She has housemates but her own room. I didn't know if I could invite myself back, or how to, so I didn't. At the end of the burgers I told her "let's go somewhere more quiet" and she said "sure". But no logistics!

So I took her to this activity bar that we found on Google maps. Around 15 minutes walk. She held one of my bags for me the whole way and helped with navigation. When we got there, we found that it doesn't open for a few months! So we found another one on Maps and walked there. 10 more minutes. We go in and see that the activities, like golf etc., are expensive and designed for 4 or more participants. Somewhere during the second walk I had said that I wouldn't stay out too long (I had woken up early and so around 9pm is already pretty late for me, and maybe I had given up too). During the walk, she had agreed and said that if we don't get an activity, we'll sit and drink for 15 minutes then call it a night. When we got into this second bar (around 35 minutes after leaving the burger place) I suggested that she get a drink and we sit for a bit. She asked if I'd be drinking anything and I said no (any beverage could affect my sleep...) and then suggested that we just go home. I dropped her at the bus stop, we said goodbye and she got on the bus. Around 5 minutes later she called me to check that I was walking in the right direction ; that was pretty nice of her.


Questions
1. Was I doomed as soon as I set a date in a location with poor logistics or could I have turned this into a successful date? I must have had over 20 dates of dinner then a bar and I don't think that I've ever run a good one. This one wasn't even dinner and a bar, of course.

2. It seems to be common to find women who live in a shared house or apartment. It's not always the case that she wouldn't want to invite you over but it sometimes is. Is there a socially acceptable way to invite myself back here and get a plain no if it wouldn't work? It seems like you people on GC are telling me to always try to invite myself or her back, no matter what, so I must learn.

3. Are after work dates like this always going to be a bad idea unless it's a 45 or less minutes long informational date?

4. While I was finishing up my burger, she was looking a bit bored and not saying much. But she went along with all the crap afterwards and we can see that it took a further 45 minutes for her to lose patience and suggest that we end the date. So was this - her seeming bored after burgers - in fact an escalation window and a chance to invite her home (which I couldn't do, of course, because no logistics)?

 

[TomInHo]

I had a second date with her. Here is the write up. It was a screw up but let's see if I can learn from it. Looking back, I'm lucky to have gotten a second date at all.

Backstory :

We had planned another activity date for last week (weekend date) . I had restrictions in my schedule and she tried to work around them. So I thought that she wanted to see me and that I really should set the date. In the end I set the date but she had to cancel with illness. I waited a few days and then asked to set up another date. She then suggested a weekday after work. I usually hate this time slot because
-poor logistics if you meet near your respective workplaces
-tired at the end of the day
-need to get home on time as it gets late
But I felt like I had to take this date or lose too much momentum in the courtship. So I took the date. I figured that even if I killed off all momentum and got rejected, it was better to kill off the lead before pursuing new ones. Also, this is a second date but I treated it like a third because I remember that we had bad a 30-40 minutes phone call before the first date and this can almost count as a first date itself. Then we met once and this is our second meet.

The date :

I met her at the metro station. I greeted with a hug then held her hand loosely for a moment before releasing it as we walked. I took her to eat burgers. It was standard conversation. How was your day etc. I complimented her for her style and the way that she presented herself. Have to keep up the attainability I thought. I found out a bit but not enough about her logistics. She has housemates but her own room. I didn't know if I could invite myself back, or how to, so I didn't. At the end of the burgers I told her "let's go somewhere more quiet" and she said "sure". But no logistics!

So I took her to this activity bar that we found on Google maps. Around 15 minutes walk. She held one of my bags for me the whole way and helped with navigation. When we got there, we found that it doesn't open for a few months! So we found another one on Maps and walked there. 10 more minutes. We go in and see that the activities, like golf etc., are expensive and designed for 4 or more participants. Somewhere during the second walk I had said that I wouldn't stay out too long (I had woken up early and so around 9pm is already pretty late for me, and maybe I had given up too). During the walk, she had agreed and said that if we don't get an activity, we'll sit and drink for 15 minutes then call it a night. When we got into this second bar (around 35 minutes after leaving the burger place) I suggested that she get a drink and we sit for a bit. She asked if I'd be drinking anything and I said no (any beverage could affect my sleep...) and then suggested that we just go home. I dropped her at the bus stop, we said goodbye and she got on the bus. Around 5 minutes later she called me to check that I was walking in the right direction ; that was pretty nice of her.


Questions
1. Was I doomed as soon as I set a date in a location with poor logistics or could I have turned this into a successful date? I must have had over 20 dates of dinner then a bar and I don't think that I've ever run a good one. This one wasn't even dinner and a bar, of course.

2. It seems to be common to find women who live in a shared house or apartment. It's not always the case that she wouldn't want to invite you over but it sometimes is. Is there a socially acceptable way to invite myself back here and get a plain no if it wouldn't work? It seems like you people on GC are telling me to always try to invite myself or her back, no matter what, so I must learn.

3. Are after work dates like this always going to be a bad idea unless it's a 45 or less minutes long informational date?

4. While I was finishing up my burger, she was looking a bit bored and not saying much. But she went along with all the crap afterwards and we can see that it took a further 45 minutes for her to lose patience and suggest that we end the date. So was this - her seeming bored after burgers - in fact an escalation window and a chance to invite her home (which I couldn't do, of course, because no logistics)?

I can summarize your main sticking point.

You don’t play to win

There’s zero escalation in this report and you are not sexualizing your interactions at all

It’s almost like you go on dates just to go and hangout with no plan at all beyond that

And after work dates are fine. I’ve closed lots of girls with those and they usually don’t last that long. Because within 1-2hrs of face time we’re banging

Tbh if I were you I would ditch the activity dates all together. I feel like they are a crutch for you to avoid building real sexual tension and chemistry with these girls. Make the vibe between y’all that activity and pick simpler dates that will force you outside your comfort zone

Got to get comfortable taking some more risks

 

[raiden]

I can summarize your main sticking point.

You don’t play to win

There’s zero escalation in this report and you are not sexualizing your interactions at all

It’s almost like you go on dates just to go and hangout with no plan at all beyond that

And after work dates are fine. I’ve closed lots of girls with those and they usually don’t last that long. Because within 1-2hrs of face time we’re banging

Tbh if I were you I would ditch the activity dates all together. I feel like they are a crutch for you to avoid building real sexual tension and chemistry with these girls. Make the vibe between y’all that activity and pick simpler dates that will force you outside your comfort zone

Got to get comfortable taking some more risks

Thanks. I think that this is definitely correct. I'm not playing to win or taking any risks or chances in general. Can you think of what I could have done better here, without the logistics? I know that I could have transitioned to a public kiss in a bar but that has always gone very badly for me (I never got further dates after a public kiss).