Virgin Girl

[Bboy100]

So I met this girl at my birthday party last weekend and got her phone number. Today, we went out on a coffee date, I pulled her home and we gave each other oral sex. But she wasn't dtf.

Throughout the date I found out that she is:
- A virgin
- I'm the third guy she's ever kissed
- She hadn't been on a date in 2 years
- I was the first guy to ever give her an orgasm
- She hadn't seen a penis until today
- She has literally no experience dating.
- She thought I was so far out of her league that she literally couldn't (and probably still doesn't) understand why I asked her out.

This was so confusing to me because she's fucking gorgeous. She told me she lost 20 lbs in the past year. So that might be part of it. The thing is, even though she's really sweet & cute, I don't think I'm looking for anything long-term with her. Mainly because she seems to have super low self-esteem and lots of self-doubt. Like...she literally wouldn't let me take her shirt off because she didn't want me to see her body (which is not at all fat. Her complaint was that she's "not fit"). This is not to be confused with LMR. Cause she let me take both her pants and underwear off, and she let me play with her breasts. It's just taking the shirt off that's a problem for her. Also, I constantly had to reassure her throughout the date that I actually liked her and that she's not "wasting my time" (and when I say "constantly", I mean once every two minutes or so). Also, every other sentence, she would apologize to me for no reason at all. I actually find it kind of endearing/cute rn, but I know that overtime, I would get tired of it really fast haha.

So my question is...given that I get the opportunity, should I take this girl's virginity? If I do, how attached will she get to me? Cause I definitely don't want to hurt her. That's my #1 concern with her right now.

 

[ProblemSolving]

I've been in these situations before, I let the little fish go. With great power, comes great responsibility haha. But seriously, don't hurt girls. Don't make this girls first sexual experience be a pump and dump or FB relationship, which could potentially mess up her future relationships with other men.

Also, for future reference, if you get a sense that a girl is insecure with her body (virgins usually are), turn off the lights or let her keep her top on.

 

[Bboy100]

Yeah, I thought about it and I actually realize that the perhaps ALL of the nervousness/insecurity had to do with the fact that this was her first date in so long. ...And I would guess that she hasn't been on more than a few in her whole life. Pretty much everything we did (even just chillin at the coffee shop alone) was clearly waaay out of her comfort zone. So I think maybe I'm going to hold off on sex so I get to know her better. Hopefully the nervousness will wear off a little bit and I'll get to see the real her. Then I can judge whether or not I want something long-term. Cause other than her insecurity, I actually like her a lot.

Also,

Also, for future reference, if you get a sense that a girl is insecure with her body (virgins usually are), turn off the lights or let her keep her top on.

Yeah, that's what I did haha.

Don't make this girls first sexual experience be a pump and dump or FB relationship, which could potentially mess up her future relationships with other men.

If if it turns out she is super insecure at her core and its not just because she has zero dating experience, Could I make it into a FWB relationship without hurting her if I make it abundantly clear to her that that's what its going to be? Or do you think she won't know that she's not ok with it (i.e. she'll think she is, but later on down the road, it'll turn out she wants more)?

 

[ProblemSolving]

C'mon man, you know right away if she's LTR quality or not. If you have to take time to think about it, then she's not. If she is LTR quality proceed as normal, if not, I'd tell not to expect a serious relationship. She'll probably bounce at that point, but it'll keep your conscience clear. If she's cool with that, I wouldn't have a problem sealing the deal. Some girls want to lose their virginity ASAP and they don't care about relationships. If you get resistance while escalating, just back way off.

 

[Bboy100]

C'mon man, you know right away if she's LTR quality or not.

The only reason I'm having doubts is because this case was a little different. She was so nervous that she literally choked on her words a couple times haha. And why would she not? This might as well have been her first date ever. I remember when I first started, I was the same way. For my first 10 dates or so, I was basically freaking out. Had I been able to relax a little, I'm sure some of those girls would have liked me.

Having said that...yeah, you're probably right. There's probably a good reason why she's had no experience thus far. I don't really expect her to change my mind. But since I'm hanging out with her at least one more time, I might as well give her the benefit of the doubt.

if not, I'd tell not to expect a serious relationship. She'll probably bounce at that point, but it'll keep your conscience clear. If she's cool with that, I wouldn't have a problem sealing the deal. Some girls want to lose their virginity ASAP and they don't care about relationships.

Yeah, I kind of already did this. She asked me why I don't already have a GF. And I told her that for the past couple of years, I was new to dating so I was pretty bad at it. And it's only now that I think I can find a GF that i'd actually want. But since I'm graduating and moving soon, I don't really see much of a point in having one.

Having said that, just because I really don't want to hurt this girl, If I decide she's not what I'm looking for, I'll go out of my way to sit her down and tell her explicitly and in no uncertain terms that this won't become an LTR. I just really hope she understands the implications of that. haha

Some girls want to lose their virginity ASAP and they don't care about relationships.

Yeah, I think this is her. Cause she said that one of her new year's resolutions is to "be more sexual" and she's really glad she's making progress. By the sound of it, she's actively trying to lose her v-card.

 

[Bboy100]

Update: I saw her again today. I told her I'm not looking for anything serious, and she actually felt the same way. She says she's in college and she wants to experiment, and she feels a relationship wouldn't allow her to do that.

She still didn't want to fuck yet. She says she's "not ready yet but she will be soon". I probed a little deeper into what "being ready" means to her. She didn't really have too great an explanation. But from what I understood, she feels really anxious about it (not surprising), and she also feels like she wants to "get to know me better". Having said that, she also made it clear that she doesn't feel like she needs nor wants to be in love with me or anything like that.

Also, today I got her to take off all her clothes this time, including her shirt. So that's progress haha.

In any case, LTR material or not, I really do like this girl a lot more than most(probably cause most the ones I meet are Tinder haha). The problem is, Spring break is about to start. So I won't see her for at least another two weeks. I fear attraction will expire by then or she'll go into auto-reject if I don't text her. But if I do text her, it'll set a BF precedent. Plus, it's difficult to be interesting in any way over text.

Any thoughts on what I should do here?

 

[ProblemSolving]

Get your hands on that pussy. Get her aroused enough and her hesitations will dissipate. If a girl is comfortable enough to get naked with you, then she's good to go. Get her moaning with your hands or mouth, when she's wet and close to orgasm, close the show.

About her leaving for two weeks, it depends if she already really likes you. Is she texting you daily? If yes, then her attraction will probably last over the two weeks. If not, then she probably won't be thinking about you too much over the coming weeks which greatly reduces your odds of seeing her again.

The start of any relationship depends on momentum. I've been in situations where I've got the lay and then the girl left for a trip and never got her out again simply because vacations are stimulating which means she won't be thinking about you for a week or two which of course causes attraction to expire.

 

[Bboy100]

Get her moaning with your hands or mouth, when she's wet and close to orgasm,

Yeah, I've done this twice now. I considered trying to close just when she's about to orgasm, but I decided against it because she's a virgin. I want her to be 100% sure this is what she wants to do instead of feeling like I'm pressuring her into it. Perhaps this was a mistake haha.
Plus, I can't just stick it in and make it seem like a "moment of passion" like I can with other girls. Getting my penis inside her is going to be a process. Probably one which will require lube. Cause atm, can only fit 1/4 of my finger inside her before it starts hurting her.

About her leaving for two weeks, it depends if she already really likes you. Is she texting you daily? If yes, then her attraction will probably last over the two weeks. If not, then she probably won't be thinking about you too much over the coming weeks which greatly reduces your odds of seeing her again.

She never texts me. But in person, she REALLY likes me. Like, she constantly tells me how cute I am and how attractive I am etc. And she always makes positive assumptions about who I am as a person (i.e. she assumes I have certain qualities which she deems attractive). But yeah...still no texting. So I'm pretty worried about this.

The start of any relationship depends on momentum.

Well last time I saw her, it was a 7 hour date which included a lot of deep diving+I made her orgasm. So I guess that's a high note. Admittedly, the date probably went on way too long (I lost track of time!). And she's not going to be doing anything too fantastic during her break. She's just going home to her relatively small town where there's nothing too exciting to do. So I definitely don't think she'll be too stimulated.

 

[Bboy100]

Update #2:

Ok, so after I came back from break, we went on a third date to a park near my place. This time when I tried to pull her home, she wasn't down. I persisted, she gave me a hard no. Instead, we ended up going to a restaurant than I dropped her off at home. Tbh, I thought that at this point, it was over. Our date felt mostly platonic, she doesn't want to go back to my place (even though she's already been there and we've done all but intercourse itself).

To my surprise, she was still down to hang out again today. We went to watch an improve comedy show, then went for food again. Once again, when I tried to pull her home, she declined.


This whole situation is very confusing to me because as noted above, neither of us are looking for anything serious ( the only reason I haven't cut her out yet is because frankly, I have waay too much free time on my hands. So I can fit her in+do everything else I would normally do).

On the third date, she also mentioned that she has an appointment on Monday to get birth control (Monday is two days from now). <---In fact, this was her excuse for "why she didn't want to go back to my place" on said third date.

At any rate, this girl has become pretty low priority for me now. I've already invested over 30 hours into her and it seems I'm only making backwards progress (all of our dates except for this last one were 7+ hours. And even this one was a full 5). So at this point, I'm just going to focus on dating other girls. And if she's available when I have free time, I'll hang out with her. Otherwise, I'll mostly cut her out.

Still though...this does pose a few questions:
1. What happened? Why would she not want to go back to my place? When I ask her, she's always very dodgy. She either gives excuses or tries to dismiss the question entirely. She says she did have a good time the last few times, so it's not that I gave her a bad sexual experience or anything like that. Something else is holding her back but I can't tell what.

Normally, I would guess its because she's shifted me from "lover" to "provider" and now she's just waiting till I chase her for monogamy. But given that we both want nothing serious, this doesn't make too much sense to me. She says she wants to "get to know me better" which is very ambiguous, and also doesn't make sense given our first and second dates.

2. Should I give her an ultimatum? Should I choose a cutoff point after which I tell her "fuck me or we're done?" The problem with such a plan is that I'm not sure how I would go about doing so without coming off as bitter or frustrated.

Any other tips?

 

[Virgin101]

So I met this girl at my birthday party last weekend and got her phone number. Today, we went out on a coffee date, I pulled her home and we gave each other oral sex. But she wasn't dtf.

Throughout the date I found out that she is:
- A virgin
- I'm the third guy she's ever kissed
- She hadn't been on a date in 2 years
- I was the first guy to ever give her an orgasm
- She hadn't seen a penis until today
- She has literally no experience dating.
- She thought I was so far out of her league that she literally couldn't (and probably still doesn't) understand why I asked her out.

This was so confusing to me because she's fucking gorgeous. She told me she lost 20 lbs in the past year. So that might be part of it. The thing is, even though she's really sweet & cute, I don't think I'm looking for anything long-term with her. Mainly because she seems to have super low self-esteem and lots of self-doubt. Like...she literally wouldn't let me take her shirt off because she didn't want me to see her body (which is not at all fat. Her complaint was that she's "not fit").

Reminds me of that 'Murder by Numbers' movie with the sex scene where Sandra Bullock won't take off her shirt.

 

[ray_zorse]

Hey dude I think PS's advice was 100% on the money here and also that it's a fairly standard dating scenario despite the quirks that you noted (her being a virgin, being nervous and so on). The trick is not to hesitate or let this kind of stuff affect your vibe. The way to play it is simple: You're a horny masculine man. She's hot and you want to fuck. You're a guy who grabs what he wants and makes shit happen no matter what. The way I would have looked at it is, her first sexual experience should be with a guy who knows what the fuck he is doing, confidently removes those panties despite her hesitations and resistance and then gently destroys her snatch in adapted missionary giving her loads of orgasms. If you were a girl who hadn't had sex before isn't that what you'd want? All this business about whether she's ready, what she wants from the r/ship and verbalizing everything, the way I see it it basically just hurts your frame and makes it all about her needs not yours. She doesn't know it but basically she just wants you to use her body to satisfy yourself, that's what makes her think you're a badass and hence attractive/sexy. I'd say once you fall into the trap of treating her differently b/c she's a virgin (or any other thing e.g. she's been raped or is a victim of this or that) then she realizes she can use it to manipulate you and increase your investment and commitment level (consciously or not) and that's what I see here. Sure it's probably not game over but pretty dicey now.
Ray

 

[Bboy100]

Yeah, you're totally right Ray! I'm definitely not making this mistake again haha. I even felt a huge "shift in power" for lack of a better term after the second date. On dates #1 and #2, she was very complacent and with enough persistence, was pretty much willing to do anything I asked of her other than sex itself. On date #3, she started giving me a lot of hard no's and even took the lead herself on several occasions (granted, I was feeling very anxious that day, so the vibe I projected was much different).

I almost feel like I've been shifted from "lover" to "provider". Which really makes no sense to me because we've both agreed (and still agree) that this isn't going to be anything serious. ...Although frankly, our actions tell a different story.

In any case, I don't think there's anything I can do to reverse the damage that's already been done.

So I guess now, I really have two options:

1. Drop her.
2. Go through all the bullshit she's likely to put me through and hope that she eventually puts out.

I'm not sure what to do here. Because on one hand, I don't want to get overly invested in a girl who I frankly don't want as a GF. But on the other hand, this is honestly the first "long courtship" that I've taken part in (all my other lays have been on a first date or the night I met her). So far, I feel pretty conflicted about it. On the one hand, it sucks. Her deciding if/when sex happens makes me feel kind of emasculated or "beta" (for lack of a better term). On the other hand, hanging out with her is fun. Even though she's not GF material, I still enjoy the time I spend with her. Also, I still kinda wanna play it out just because I'm curious to see what happens. If for no other reason, I just want to confirm that all the stuff written on this site about going the "provider route" is true.

So yeah, my ego aside, I think that there's no reason to cut her off as long as I keep my eye on the ball and don't get roped into a relationship with her. Can I do that? I'm not sure. I've never been in this situation before, so it's kinda hard for me to tell. But I think being consciously aware of the possibility of this happening definitely helps.

 

[ray_zorse]

I was in a pretty similar situation with a girl a while back, a failed escalation whom I bumped into on the tram and she (surprisingly) texted me later to suggest another hangout, so I knew she was down. But what was she down for exactly... well basically I think she wanted relationship, yet I didn't like her enough for that to be a possibility, especially after having got dicked around a lot after the failed escalation, some almost abusive text messages when I tried to set up more dates and so on. So I took radeng's advice which was basically, just be chill and meet her, accept probably nothing will happen but enjoy the time with her. That's what I did and we had a pretty enjoyable date. I also thought we had agreed to watch film (seeded during the date) and pulled her to HALF A BLOCK from my house before the nasty suspicious side of her came out, and the "hard no's", despite my telling her ALL we were gonna do was snuggle up and watch a film in her language... it was genuinely a real cold night and I was being 100% honest but, nogo, sigh. I left her on the street corner after an extended hard push and haven't heard from her since. I'd say that's basically what's gonna happen in your case too. But there's no real reason to be disheartened, just enjoy the time with her, you have been studying seduction quite a while and become a real badass, so you have sufficient abundance that you can afford to slack off a little on this one. In Chase's words "boyfriend territory won't kill you". Remember to 100% ignore all the bullshit she's telling you and look at actions -- she wants you in a relationship and that's that. Interestingly though, given your existing level of investment and the likely necessary further investment necessary to seal the deal, this can actually change your view of her and make her more valuable in your eyes. That's basically what happened with my current GF, I deleted her number at least once (she texted after quite a while and I'm like "hello is this Leticia? lost your number") and NEXTed her MORE than once for lack of progress, if you had said I was gonna be having a baby with this girl I would have laughed at you. I eventually introduced her to my kids because I had basically no other free dating window, they got on very well, and eventually I started to see her as GF material. Even then, I later broke up with her for a number of months telling her I wanted to date other women, but we continued to enjoy platonic time together, and eventually I relented and fucked her again... all this could be you!
Ray

 

[Bboy100]

was in a pretty similar situation with a girl a while back, a failed escalation whom I bumped into on the tram and she (surprisingly) texted me later to suggest another hangout, so I knew she was down. But what was she down for exactly... well basically I think she wanted relationship, yet I didn't like her enough for that to be a possibility, especially after having got dicked around a lot after the failed escalation, some almost abusive text messages when I tried to set up more dates and so on. So I took radeng's advice which was basically, just be chill and meet her, accept probably nothing will happen but enjoy the time with her. That's what I did and we had a pretty enjoyable date. I also thought we had agreed to watch film (seeded during the date) and pulled her to HALF A BLOCK from my house before the nasty suspicious side of her came out, and the "hard no's", despite my telling her ALL we were gonna do was snuggle up and watch a film in her language... it was genuinely a real cold night and I was being 100% honest but, nogo, sigh. I left her on the street corner after an extended hard push and haven't heard from her since. I'd say that's basically what's gonna happen in your case too.

I don't think this is going to happen. I think its more likely that if I allow this to continue, we'll end up doing the whole "high school dating" thing where we go 6 months or some ridiculous amount of time like that w.o having sex. I refuse to take part in that. In fact, I'm going to force an outcome next time I see her.

To me, its very obvious that she doesn't want to fuck because she's afraid of sex. And everything else she says is a rationalization to run away from this fear. It has nothing at all to do with me or "how well she knows me". So tomorrow, I'm just going to sit down explain this to her. After i'm done, if she doesn't fuck me, give me a good reason to believe that I'm wrong or she doesn't give me an otherwise satisfactory explanation for what's going on, I'll just cut it off with her.

Interestingly though, given your existing level of investment and the likely necessary further investment necessary to seal the deal, this can actually change your view of her and make her more valuable in your eyes. That's basically what happened with my current GF, I deleted her number at least once (she texted after quite a while and I'm like "hello is this Leticia? lost your number") and NEXTed her MORE than once for lack of progress, if you had said I was gonna be having a baby with this girl I would have laughed at you. I eventually introduced her to my kids because I had basically no other free dating window, they got on very well, and eventually I started to see her as GF material. Even then, I later broke up with her for a number of months telling her I wanted to date other women, but we continued to enjoy platonic time together, and eventually I relented and fucked her again... all this could be you!

This is something I could learn from. It sounds like you believed she was sub-par. Or at the very least, you weren't sure about her. Now that you're actually in a relationship with her, do you regret this? Or are you glad she changed your initial impression of her?

 

[Bboy100]

Update: Ok, so technically speaking, I sealed the deal last night. But it didn't go too well. When I first tried to put my penis inside her, I literally couldn't. It was so tight, my penis couldn't fit. So we grabbed some lube and I fingered her. First with just one finger, then with two. After starting, pulling my fingers out, giving her time to rest because it hurt her too much and starting again several more times, I finally managed to get two of my fingers all the way inside her. But it still hurt her a LOT. Like, there was a visible expression of pain on her face. Also, she was so tight that it restricted the blood flow to my fingers. lol

After we took a break from that for a while, we tried to put my penis in. I technically managed to put it halfway in, but even thrusting a little bit hurt her waay too much. After like 2-3 thrusts, she said it hurt too and she needed a break. At that point, it was 2 AM and I was kind of exhausted. So we went to bed. Also, her whole body was visibly shaking/trembling really hard while I had my penis inside her and for a few minutes before and after. I had never seen anything like this before. I asked her if its cause she's nervous and she said no. I asked her if she knows why and she said she doesn't. She said she felt completely comfortable etc. and that it was as weird to her as it was to me. I did a quick google search and apparently this is normal. Have you guys had any experience with anything like that in the past?

The next morning, I fingered her again for a couple minutes, but then she eventually asked me to take my fingers out cause it still hurt waay too much. She wasn't down to try again that day. Also, her vag was apparently super sore. She did however give me a 30 minute BJ without me even asking. So I doubt she's lost interest or anything like that. I just think she wasn't down to go through all that pain again.

Any advice? I literally don't know how to have sex with this girl. lol

 

[ray_zorse]

The whole ballgame changes once you've been inside her, you're now officially "qualified for mating" and her attention is going to be on tying you down / negotiating relationship terms that are favourable to her. As opposed to evaluating your mateworthiness while trying to make you chase for sex, in which the slightest error will kill you. (There are sometimes post-sex retention issues that I do not fully understand yet, but it doesn't affect what I am about to say). So your best strategy here is take it real slow, invest a little time and effort into her to reward her for investing in you with sex. Play with her and just focus on lots of massaging her pussy and your cock, lots of lube, get to know her whole body. Ofc try to penetrate her but don't make it an issue if its too difficult, just try something different to build more comfort and try again some other time. I reckon it really is a comfort issue despite what she says. I can't think what else it could be. What about give her some orgasms with a vibrator? Orgasm can sometimes prepare her pussy quite well (make it very wet and more relaxed possibly).
Ray