Virgins and guys inexperienced with women, how much of it is bad circumstances?

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

I have had a chance to meet a few guys who were virgins past the age of 20, some virgins up until the age of 25, and I am talking kissless virgins. When I talked to these guys and got an idea of their backgrounds, it seemed like they came from rough backgrounds. Almost all of them, to some degree, had overbearing and overly attached parents that were always on their shit and would never let go.

Then you had guys who went to school in rough neighborhoods instead of the lily white suburbs which meant the women were brutish and not even worth taking a chance on.

I notice that almost all male virgins I met had a restrictive upbringing and could never get it together. What throws me off is that I have seen guys way uglier and way less charismatic do well with girls because of lucky circumstances like being in a big city with a lot of hot girls and having some social connections.

It's like whenever we see or meet a guy who is virgin until the age of 25, we assume that there is something wrong with him but I find that with most male virgins, it isn't always their fault but rather just horrible circumstances.

Like if I was to go to a high school where most girls were World Star Hip Hop material, I would voluntarily stay a virgin too.

Similarly, it is tough to get helicopter parents off your back, I notice that guys from immigrant families struggle with this.

But I want to know, how much of a guy's lack of experience with women is due to shit circumstances growing up like being in an area with tons of trashy ugly women, poor upbringing, overbearing parents, and that sort of deal as opposed to a guy being too ugly or too awkward?

Can these guys be fixed?

 

[GeneralFap]

Re: Virgins and guys inexperienced with women, how much of it is bad circumstanc

It's a combination of many factors. Most people are actually way less in control of their circumstances when they're young than they think. Even RSD Tyler said that the first twenty years of your life, and sometimes even into your thirties, you are like a leaf in the wind. Some kids are born smaller and more introverted than others, so they get bullied and socialize less. Other kids are born into abusive parents/broken homes and they go grow with fear and self-consciousness. Others have helicopter parents that try to control their every move. All you can do after this is dust yourself off and start living life the way you want. It can be done.

 

[Ree]

Re: Virgins and guys inexperienced with women, how much of it is bad circumstanc

man the biggest fuckboys grew up in rough neighborhoods...I think growing up in a rough neighborhood is a polarizer...you either become the badboy or the outcast.....all things equal people I know from the eastlands slay more than people from the suburbs

 

[Fuck This]

Re: Virgins and guys inexperienced with women, how much of it is bad circumstanc

I dunno. I remember kissing "Karen" in Kindergarten. I don't know if I got an early start, or what. But I remember that kino and physical affection was something I employed from an early age. When the other boys were telling girls to stay out of their fort, I was kissing them behind the school. Given more opportunity to isolate, and more access to condoms, I probably would have lost my virginity at 13. All my up close and personal encounters as a young man were usually with girls I'd just met. I never really followed up those. I had my AFC moments courting girls who were basically attention whores, and left me frustrated.

Now I never had a "girlfriend" per se, all the way through high school, but I managed to get as much action as a virgin could. I never really maintained a relationship long enough where PIV sex was an option. I didn't go to parties, I didn't date outside of a couple school dance dates, I didn't have a close social circle, I lived 10 miles from town, but I knew all the people in my classes and played sports. There were girls interested in me, but I was oblivious to them, and had huge AA.

My first two lays were both first meeting ONS's within 3 hours of meeting. Never saw either of them again but it was clear they were just looking to get laid. On those my attitude was "I got nothing to lose" .

Now along this journey, I did push it too far a few times in physical escalation and it cost me dearly in reputation, and set back my confidence with girls for a couple years. At that point I'd determined that getting in a monogamous relationship was the best bet for regular sex accessibility. Once the first relationship cycled in about a month, I'd gained some confidence back. The next girl that I bedded I married 3 years later so the whole learning of the seduction process was sidelined. See the thread on "Getting out of the game before a breakthrough" What I did was exactly that...

I guess my point is that a lot of things have to fall into place for a guy's first time. But creating the physical attraction and initiating the physical escalation has to become second nature so that you position yourself to take advantage of a willing partner.

 

[uForia]

Re: Virgins and guys inexperienced with women, how much of it is bad circumstanc

It is very much circumstances and personal taste, at least for me. Stereotypical Asian male upbringing, but to add injury to that I prefer a state of permanence and everything in life felt ephemeral. Like high school, I was going to be there for only 3 years, so what's the point in losing time studying for getting involved with a girl I won't marry? It was seen, at the time, a bad investment from me and my parents weren't fans of dating in high school either so we were in agreement.

During college, I was finally away from my parents and I wanted to see what the 'college life' was like, so I went to parties and such. Too bad that my engineering-strong school had a lopsided gender ratio of 60:40 male/female and a sorely lacking supply of attractive women combined with my inexperience so I decided once again that even if I find a girl here, very unlikely we're going to find a job at the same place and it'd be too much time wasted with an unfavorable dating economy. It's comparatively more efficient to focus on studying versus at a party school with a 40:60 ratio like UCLA and get a six figure job as a top software engineer. During the summers, I had internships but with it being ephemeral for ~3 months, I simply couldn't mentally commit to getting a girl during the summer since I was going to be gone soon anyways.

Fast forward 3.5 years (graduated a semester early), I'm now in Seattle with a six-figure career as a software engineer. Only now can I truly make investments in personal training and physical therapy with a feeling of permanence, which I have. Unfortunately, I find Seattle also sorely lacking in supply of attractive women thus far but maybe once spring hits I'll find someone attractive. But most likely not, I have no/low expectations for life nowadays. If Seattle proves to be disappointing for 2 straight years, I'll be looking for a hedge fund or prop trading job in Chicago or New York for perhaps even more pay, where I know the dating markets are better.

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

Re: Virgins and guys inexperienced with women, how much of it is bad circumstanc

It is very much circumstances and personal taste, at least for me. Stereotypical Asian male upbringing, but to add injury to that I prefer a state of permanence and everything in life felt ephemeral. Like high school, I was going to be there for only 3 years, so what's the point in losing time studying for getting involved with a girl I won't marry? It was seen, at the time, a bad investment from me and my parents weren't fans of dating in high school either so we were in agreement.

During college, I was finally away from my parents and I wanted to see what the 'college life' was like, so I went to parties and such. Too bad that my engineering-strong school had a lopsided gender ratio of 60:40 male/female and a sorely lacking supply of attractive women combined with my inexperience so I decided once again that even if I find a girl here, very unlikely we're going to find a job at the same place and it'd be too much time wasted with an unfavorable dating economy. It's comparatively more efficient to focus on studying versus at a party school with a 40:60 ratio like UCLA and get a six figure job as a top software engineer. During the summers, I had internships but with it being ephemeral for ~3 months, I simply couldn't mentally commit to getting a girl during the summer since I was going to be gone soon anyways.

Fast forward 3.5 years (graduated a semester early), I'm now in Seattle with a six-figure career as a software engineer. Only now can I truly make investments in personal training and physical therapy with a feeling of permanence, which I have. Unfortunately, I find Seattle also sorely lacking in supply of attractive women thus far but maybe once spring hits I'll find someone attractive. But most likely not, I have no/low expectations for life nowadays. If Seattle proves to be disappointing for 2 straight years, I'll be looking for a hedge fund or prop trading job in Chicago or New York for perhaps even more pay, where I know the dating markets are better.

Damn dude, your story is the story of the kind of guy that ends up falling victim to a lot of these PUA scams, they literally prey on guys like you.

Please keep us updated, I would love to hear of your success story. Have you thought of maybe taking a chance of moving to Florida one day? A lot of attractive women there and the sex culture is so laid back.

 

[uForia]

Re: Virgins and guys inexperienced with women, how much of it is bad circumstanc

It is very much circumstances and personal taste, at least for me. Stereotypical Asian male upbringing, but to add injury to that I prefer a state of permanence and everything in life felt ephemeral. Like high school, I was going to be there for only 3 years, so what's the point in losing time studying for getting involved with a girl I won't marry? It was seen, at the time, a bad investment from me and my parents weren't fans of dating in high school either so we were in agreement.

During college, I was finally away from my parents and I wanted to see what the 'college life' was like, so I went to parties and such. Too bad that my engineering-strong school had a lopsided gender ratio of 60:40 male/female and a sorely lacking supply of attractive women combined with my inexperience so I decided once again that even if I find a girl here, very unlikely we're going to find a job at the same place and it'd be too much time wasted with an unfavorable dating economy. It's comparatively more efficient to focus on studying versus at a party school with a 40:60 ratio like UCLA and get a six figure job as a top software engineer. During the summers, I had internships but with it being ephemeral for ~3 months, I simply couldn't mentally commit to getting a girl during the summer since I was going to be gone soon anyways.

Fast forward 3.5 years (graduated a semester early), I'm now in Seattle with a six-figure career as a software engineer. Only now can I truly make investments in personal training and physical therapy with a feeling of permanence, which I have. Unfortunately, I find Seattle also sorely lacking in supply of attractive women thus far but maybe once spring hits I'll find someone attractive. But most likely not, I have no/low expectations for life nowadays. If Seattle proves to be disappointing for 2 straight years, I'll be looking for a hedge fund or prop trading job in Chicago or New York for perhaps even more pay, where I know the dating markets are better.

Damn dude, your story is the story of the kind of guy that ends up falling victim to a lot of these PUA scams, they literally prey on guys like you.

Please keep us updated, I would love to hear of your success story. Have you thought of maybe taking a chance of moving to Florida one day? A lot of attractive women there and the sex culture is so laid back.

With my few months here, I have seen few attractive women and it seems like they're far away from the tech industry here. I couldn't approach them because there are such a lack of attractive women here that if I fuck up with one, there's not many to go around at all. Like you can't have an abundance mentality because there really isn't an abundance at all. Since I'm in the tech industry, there's mostly dudes and if there's women they don't place a high value in trying to look attractive from the places I go to. It would require me to go very out of my way to go to places that are less tech-heavy and perhaps a higher probability of finding viable women. The issue though is that it just doesn't work to stand around and cold approach, I'd rather be attempting to start a side business and fail rather than do that, plus in the mainstream culture you're essentially a creep if you do that. With that said, colleges are focusing on bringing more women into tech, a more even gender ratio, which may affect the supply positively in the coming years since Amazon is such a huge employer here in downtown Seattle.

I've met a mentor from the manosphere, though I'd personally say he avoids the misogynistic psuedo-science portions of it just like I do. He uses online dating, but since most of that is based on pictures and hobbies, that is out of my league for now. It's hard to dispel Asian male stereotypes via pictures and words and nothing else, I'm still making progress in the gym and essentially have no hobbies that I can do that don't have a regular loser vibe (i.e. Netflix, video games, etc). I can play the piano and violin, but they're too stereotypical for Asian men and I don't have them in my apartment so I can't really say I 'enjoy' them when I'm not even playing them right now. Plus, there's an abundance of software engineers making six figures and above here in Seattle so there's really no way for a guy like me to win here in online dating.

Now for moving to other cities, I listed New York and Chicago due to their favorable dating economies and relative abundance of high paying tech jobs (We're not talking 60k entry level high, we're talking Google/Microsoft high, which is 100k+ base plus bonus plus ~30k equity a year out of college) compared to other cities. Florida lacks that kind of pay as well as most other cities that aren't San Francisco, Seattle, New York, and Chicago.

 

[ProblemSolving]

Re: Virgins and guys inexperienced with women, how much of it is bad circumstanc

I'm now in Seattle with a six-figure career as a software engineer.

You don't even realize how far a head of the competition you are. You have massive boyfriend potential.

Unfortunately, I find Seattle also sorely lacking in supply of attractive women thus far but maybe once spring hits I'll find someone attractive.

Oh really? Where are you looking for attractive women? Because if it's at the sausage party at work, good luck! You have to create a routine that puts you around hot chicks. Move downtown to ANY major city and you will find more than enough hot chicks to hit on. You can find them at the grocery store, on transit, walking down the street. With high population density, it's impossible not to see hot chicks just by doing your daily errands.

If you don't see many hot chicks where you are, move downtown, you have the money for it. No excuses.