Virgins-any special thoughts?

[girlsfollow]

I've had a variety of experiences with virgins.

1st type: very receptive and had essentially already made up their minds that they want to get rid of the label and I efficiently had a first night lay with these types (one didn't even tell me she was a virgin till the next time we met - although I could tell of course).

2nd type: Another type was much more challenging and took a few dates till she felt comfortable and then it went ok.

My question is about the third type - I'm asking how you would generally make things progress with this type? and will just use the girl below as an example:

This girl comes from a very conservative family background in Lithuania, I mention this because it is an "unliberated" culture - its like society was here maybe 50 years ago - usually no sex before marriage, they didn't go through the whole "free love" movement we did here.

So I've been seeing her about 3 weeks, I took till second date to kiss (on a side note I know its better to keep the tension rather than kiss in most cases, but it was blindingly clear it was not going to work that way, I did try, thats why it took till second date) - then I discovered she LOVES kissing - its like she's replaced sex with kissing! Seriously hard - I can tell this is how she has dealt with the tension in the past - she has just always gone for kissing with previous guys to reduce tension and then stopped it at that....

I'm gently weaning her off the kissing now I think this is a useful technique I would reccomend - had her sleep over a few times, I avoid kissing and just bite and smell/kiss her body - she gets incredibly turned on - literally she's moaning for it when I touch her, we also dry hump crotches with me hard ALOT - I used this to escalate to getting her bra off - you might say that I should have skipped the bra and gone for the trousers but here is the BIG PROBLEM, as soon as I even touch the button on her trousers or tell her to take them off she immediately says "if you say/try that again I have to leave" - and she means it! I tried ignoring it and trying again - just as strong. Am I right in thinking that if I can't get the trousers off I should settle for the bra first? - I'm starting to think I will leave her top on totally and keep escalating and try her trousers as the very first thing next time?

I tried getting her more turned on, I basically fingered her through her trousers while sucking her nipples, she was almost coming - no change - I've even got her giving me a hand job through my boxers (she refuses to touch it directly- says "please don't" ) while I finger her trousers. Even taken it out and simulated sex between her breasts and between her forearm and her stomach - still no change. - I think this might have been a mistake - I will dial this back I think - just a little frustration on my part - also thought it might make her more comfortable - closer to oral (I also put my fingers deep in her mouth during this and put precum on my fingers and in her mouth - her mouth is super sensitive - oral fixation) - maybe I need to work through oral first with her?

I also tried actually logically talking through the objection:
Me: "whats the problem with having them off, your sleeping in bed, its uncomfortable
Her: "It will be like I am naked, but worse because I am really turned on, I like you and I can't control myself, I would rather walk around in underwear on the street than with you because of that" (its not the nakedness - shes cleaver and knows what it will lead to)

she also says things like this to chase frame : "you hate me now don't you, because you can't win, you want to f*** me don't you"
I say: "its not a war - we both want the same thing, I'm not desperate for it, its something that's amazing fun and I know I would make you feel amazing (she said she bets I would) - its just as much for you as for me, don't see it as a fight, its not a big deal" did I deal with this well? - should I try this logical "dealing with objections" - how best?

She has stated she wants to be in love to have sex, she's worried I'm not serious enough and that I'll get bored once we have sex and leave. She says she'll get very attached (which judging by the way she longingly stares at me when she's around me is probably be the case, im pretty sure its the first time she's slept in a guys bed too) so she needs to know if I'm serious first.

I realise if this was your average girl these would be terrible frames for her to be putting on me "I need to prove myself to be x" - maybe they are in this case - the thing is I'm not sure I could have got around them - I've got her super turned on and desperate for it and she always had the jeans as a last defence - she uses them as a psychological crutch.

My last ditch attempt has been to do something wild and invite her to go to another country with me for the weekend (she's paying her part) - any idea if I can use this to my advantage - two nights in a row sleeping in hotel bed. My last hope is that she wears pyjamas that aren't impossible to slip a hand into....

Really appreciate any input....

 

[Thinkingenigma]

It seems like she really wants you, but she wants to keep you around until you commit. Perhaps a push/pull strategy would work here. I was in a similar situation with a girl (I ended up not bedding her for other reasons), and this technique worked wonders. She did many of the same things that your girl is doing. If she thinks that you are leaving for some reason and she is as attached as you say she is, she will be desperate to keep you around. Other than that, learning how to handle her objections is something that would be very useful.

 

[Chase]

Might be time for PYCO.

Basically, you escalate her to the point where she's really turned on, and then you just pull your cock out and let her see it.

See how she reacts to that.

Might scare her off, but if she's never seen one up close before might be interesting / exciting / tempting, too. Reassure her it's okay and tell her she can touch it. You can always bring yourself to climax in front of her and see if that turns her on... some girls it does and they'll jump in partway.

Of course, I've known girls who were virgins who had no problem giving oral or hand jobs, but wouldn't do full-on sex. If she's held out on past boyfriends before, much of the time the only thing that'll get her past it is simply making the decision that okay, enough is enough, it's time to just have sex and stop making this such a big deal.

Unfortunately, that often doesn't happen until she's lost enough boyfriends over it / gotten frustrated enough.

As last ditch effort you can try if you get to the point where you're about to give up is just to tell her,

• Lisa, I really like you, I think you're an AMAZING girl, but what we have here is a platonic friendship. I know they do things differently in Lithuania, but here, if you're not having sex, you're not in a relationship. I need a real woman.

Then just see how she reacts to that.

Big note: with a girl who makes THIS big a deal over her virginity, once you've gotten it, you are COMMITTED. She is in love with you, because she's gone further than she ever intended to, and she's given you something that is very, very important to her. Unless you're serious about having this girl as a girlfriend, I'd advise you to let this one alone, lest you leave a trail of human wreckage in your wake. I personally won't take virginity from girls who are committed to saving themselves anymore; the cost is too high.

Chase

 

[Ross]

I was going to comment on this sometime, but just never got around to it. Chase summed it up quite nicely; the way things are coming out, it seems like you are trying to make her think you want a long-term relationship. If you aren't ready for a long-term relationship, sleeping with her is just going to be a mistake. Even if you talk to her about it after having sex, telling her anything other than you wanting to be in a LTR with her will leave her crushed. You'll have to seriously manage her emotions, and if you end up leaving her she's going to be crushed. Big commitment there, so her resistance is understood.

You can sleep with virgins or inexperienced girls without crushing them, but you really have to frame it as casual and make sure she doesn't believe you do anything long term. Note that this may make it so you do not sleep with her, because if her core values that she holds are against casual sex she will not break from it, no matter how masterfully you frame it.

 

[girlsfollow]

Thanks guys for your great input, I went on the trip, it was really useful hearing all of your thoughts - everything went really well, we had a great time and the sex just happened naturally, I just went up to where I was before got her to take her trousers off - then took it out and started rubbing it against her vagina through the underwear - then it got more and more intense and it somehow found its way past the underwear and went in...

- I really like her - she's so full of energy, fun and eagerness - I love that. She's also very naive about what the guys are like here - something I might need to help her with. SO no worries about me nexting her and hurting her - although I worry about the 3/4 week separation we're going to have in a week's time (work/family reasons)....

 

[Franco]

Hi girlsfollow,

To follow up on your concern with being away from her for awhile, just make sure not to hound her while she's away and you'll be fine. Chase has a general "keep in contact" rule of something like the following: for every 3 times she contacts you (via text, phone call, or whatever), initiate contact once.

If you're relatively new to feeling out how to maintain contact with a girl in a way that is desirable but not off-putting, this can be a good general rule to stick by.

Anyway, congratulations on closing that one out! Sounds like she might be relationship material for you.

- Franco

 

[girlsfollow]

Hi girlsfollow,

To follow up on your concern with being away from her for awhile, just make sure not to hound her while she's away and you'll be fine. Chase has a general "keep in contact" rule of something like the following: for every 3 times she contacts you (via text, phone call, or whatever), initiate contact once.

If you're relatively new to feeling out how to maintain contact with a girl in a way that is desirable but not off-putting, this can be a good general rule to stick by.

Anyway, congratulations on closing that one out! Sounds like she might be relationship material for you.

- Franco

That would be a general rule I would follow (although I would probably respond to every 2 contacts she makes normally) but this girl is very different - she is so submissive - she has never been in a relationship before and so is looking to me to set the pace - she's constantly saying I need to teach her. Ever since the start she's told me she really likes me but she has almost never been the first to text - she always waits for me to text first - then she generally responds quite quickly (mostly within 10/20mins) mostly quite enthusiastically. But at the moment I am dangerously far away from the ideal....

A few reasons for this might be that she is shy and english is not her first language so that can make her a little self conscious (although her english is fine - probably above the average in the country - just different with an accent) ontop of the fact she doesn't know what she's doing - maybe doesn't realise that people that are seeing each other generally send each other texts most days even if it is about things which aren't a big deal - just to say goodnight etc.

The final option is that she is trying to play a bit of a game with it - but I dont get the feeling that she is.

Anyway - what would you suggest I do about this - so far I have just ignored it and texted her when I would normally - mainly because I've been trying to build a connection and comfort in a relatively short space of time. I could try gradually pulling away and see if that maybe jolts her into initiating more....

 

[Franco]

girlsfollow,

I could try gradually pulling away and see if that maybe jolts her into initiating more....

At the moment, this would probably be the worst thing you could do. This is why setting expectations from the get-go is so key. If you start to pull away this early (especially with someone completely inexperienced like her) she is going to automatically assume something is wrong or that you are losing interest in her, and you might suddenly run into your first encounter with drama.

If you've already set the precedent that you will text her every day, then I would continue doing that (so long as you are comfortable with texting her that often, and you feel like it isn't becoming a burden to you). What's great about the fact that it's her first relationship is that coming across as "needy" is something that is less probable since she hasn't really drawn that boundary of how much personal space is needed to make her happy. She will likely enjoy spending lots of time with you -- again, if you like her enough and don't mind doing this, it is completely okay.

I would try to keep in contact with her often, especially the first six months (thinking ahead here) of the relationship until she can get a feel for what being in a relationship is like. Once you feel like she is more comfortable being in a relationship with you, then you can maybe think about changing some of the dynamics of it. I would try to maintain what you are providing her right now since the "current you" is who she fell in love with.

Hope this helps,

Franco

 

[girlsfollow]

girlsfollow,

I could try gradually pulling away and see if that maybe jolts her into initiating more....

At the moment, this would probably be the worst thing you could do. This is why setting expectations from the get-go is so key. If you start to pull away this early (especially with someone completely inexperienced like her) she is going to automatically assume something is wrong or that you are losing interest in her, and you might suddenly run into your first encounter with drama.

If you've already set the precedent that you will text her every day, then I would continue doing that (so long as you are comfortable with texting her that often, and you feel like it isn't becoming a burden to you). What's great about the fact that it's her first relationship is that coming across as "needy" is something that is less probable since she hasn't really drawn that boundary of how much personal space is needed to make her happy. She will likely enjoy spending lots of time with you -- again, if you like her enough and don't mind doing this, it is completely okay.

I would try to keep in contact with her often, especially the first six months (thinking ahead here) of the relationship until she can get a feel for what being in a relationship is like. Once you feel like she is more comfortable being in a relationship with you, then you can maybe think about changing some of the dynamics of it. I would try to maintain what you are providing her right now since the "current you" is who she fell in love with.

Hope this helps,

Franco

I think you hit the nail right on here, I called her, planning to organise seeing her twice before I leave on Tuesday, you can imagine its just going against what I've learnt from experience with the other girls I know... I keep reverting back to standard game...which is actually only applicable in a narrow range of situations.

...seeing her tomorrow - only little concern is that coming over to my place to cook and watch a film might get a bit monotonous - but I suppose as long as sex is mixed in that doesn't matter - thats still something very new to her. Going to be fun guiding her through the steps, next step is to get her coming from V stimulation only rather than needing assistance. - Can you believe she'd never even put a finger in before! Must be a totally new feeling for her - must be amazing!

 

[girlsfollow]

I would try to keep in contact with her often, especially the first six months (thinking ahead here) of the relationship until she can get a feel for what being in a relationship is like.

this part is interesting - Ive only been in a relationship with a relatively experienced girl before - I'm not sure what it is about this one - she clearly likes me - we had sex 3 times today and she told me she misses me - but she still hardly ever texts - I told her she could text me if she misses me... but I don't think she will, been thinking I might start adding some sex texting to get her prepped for when I leave - its going to be 3.5 weeks!

maybe it is just that she isnt used to relationships yet - but to me it always feels like shes pulling away - even though in person everything is great - maybe its because she's scared - she's told me she is scared of getting too attached.....

 

[Just_Dave]

Big Texters

I would try to keep in contact with her often, especially the first six months (thinking ahead here) of the relationship until she can get a feel for what being in a relationship is like.

this part is interesting - Ive only been in a relationship with a relatively experienced girl before - I'm not sure what it is about this one - she clearly likes me - we had sex 3 times today and she told me she misses me - but she still hardly ever texts - I told her she could text me if she misses me... but I don't think she will, been thinking I might start adding some sex texting to get her prepped for when I leave - its going to be 3.5 weeks!

maybe it is just that she isnt used to relationships yet - but to me it always feels like shes pulling away - even though in person everything is great - maybe its because she's scared - she's told me she is scared of getting too attached.....

Hey Follows,

Sometimes some people just aren't big texters because they think it's too impersonal, if things are good in person that's great. Have you considered other options such as a phone call? I know in one of your other posts you mentioned skype.

 

[girlsfollow]

Re: Big Texters

as usual good input Dave,

Hey Follows,

Sometimes some people just aren't big texters because they think it's too impersonal, if things are good in person that's great. Have you considered other options such as a phone call? I know in one of your other posts you mentioned skype.

Yes - although - its the same with the phone - its always me initiating contact (only done it a few times but still) - although I got her to invest the other day she called me back haha - Yeh I think maybe phone calls are the way to go - but calling everyday also feels a little too intrusive /too much

 

[Ross]

I would try Skype or some other form of video chat. Simply texting is pretty boring in this day and age with all the tools that we have.

The thing with a new relationship is that its great, and you want to spend a lot of time together.. But going on a 3.5 week break just as the relationship is flourishing kind of sucks.

In regards to her feeling like she is getting too attached; chances are, she is becoming attached, which is completely normal. She's feeling these attachments and is therefore backing away from you because she is feeling this way, and she thinks it is a bad thing. I would say just ignore the not initiating text first. She seems to be teetering on the edge of auto-rejection rather than thinking that you are too easy, so I'd keep up with texting her first, because you are still firmly in power. Continue with calls/texts and suggest the idea of Skype to her. And trust me when I say you are completely in power in this relationship. You are the man that she lost her virginity to and continues to want to learn from, and she is clearly attached to you and the idea of a relationship, and is scared that things may go wrong. Just because she isn't texting first shows nothing with the relationship, especially with a girl as inexperienced as her.

 

[Jay]

Might be time for PYCO.

Basically, you escalate her to the point where she's really turned on, and then you just pull your cock out and let her see it.

See how she reacts to that.

I approve of this simple and elegant solution. Actually works like a charm.

 

[girlsfollow]

Might be time for PYCO.

Basically, you escalate her to the point where she's really turned on, and then you just pull your cock out and let her see it.

See how she reacts to that.

I approve of this simple and elegant solution. Actually works like a charm.

Very true, it worked - although need to add the proviso that the "C" needs to be fully erect, works MUCH better - agreed?

It can take a little momentum out of the situation if it takes too long to get there though...

 

[Chase]

Very true, it worked - although need to add the proviso that the "C" needs to be fully erect, works MUCH better - agreed?

It can take a little momentum out of the situation if it takes too long to get there though...

Good to hear it worked.

And, certainly - erect is ideal. There's just something about a flaccid penis that takes the wind right out of everybody's sails.

Chase