I'd had first sex on first date many times before. But now I clearly see that in all those cases, it was mostly luck (i.e. she was really into me/horny for some reason), and having barely good enough game to not mess it up.
This was not one of those cases. I pulled off this "difficult" seduction in a fairly ideal way due solely to improvements in my game from Hector.
People
Me: early 30s asian entrepreneur
Her: mid/late 20s SE asian girl, tall, thin, cute, very fashionable, works in marketing
Background
I've recently been focusing on one thing with Hector: not needing permission to be sexual, and sexualizing the date early. This has been a YEARS-LONG struggle for me. I've read every GC article on creating a sexual vibe, using sexual gambits, sex talk, etc. And I've tried all of them. And they've never worked for me.
Most of my dates would feel like we're just circling around boring topics, or sometimes interesting but non-sexual topics. And I knew I wanted to sexualize them, but it was never congruent. It always felt really weird when I randomly brought up some sex topic, and she wouldn't really buy into it, and I would just feel like a weirdo. Once in a blue moon I would accidentally stumble onto a sexual topic and have her latch onto it.
Hector's advice here was first, to understand that I've had some mild sexual trauma. I've been raised up in a typical asexual asian household, and I've also had a few negative sexual experiences like 2 years ago (girl became super clingy/stalkerish, girl became super vengeful/angry when I didn't want to see her anymore, girl I liked ghosted me after I tried to pull her claiming it was 'offensive'). These all contributed to me being way more shy around inviting a girl to my apartment, which I didn't use to have when I just started cold approaching.
His second advice was explaining that NO girl will ever be offended by me being sexual, in fact, that will turn them on, and if not, they will at least respect you, especially if you do it in a cool calibrated way. So just be sexual, doesn't matter if she's a Christian or uber conservative, the right answer is always to be sexual. And as for the tactic of actually doing it, he told me to forget about all the gambit stuff, and just realize that all it takes is to say one or two things, that let her know "okayy, this guy has balls". And kinda keep doing that and "penetrate" the armor deeper and deeper until she buys into your sexual frame.
So I ran with this advice. Had a date 2 days ago, with a hot latina. I was fairly intimidated, thinking she's used to really sexual latino men, and she would probably be testing me the whole time. But instead I just acted normally, perhaps a bit more loose cannon than usual, giving no fucks about being "offensive", and every time I had an even mildly sexual thought, I would be sure to mention sex and be unapologetic about it. I.e. we were into a deep intellectual discussion about Tchaikovsky, and she was like "you know he's gay right?". And I would say "oh, he must have had TONS of sex then". By the end of the date, she was openly bringing up sexual topics thinking it's so refreshing to talk about this stuff with a guy who isn't weird about it. I did try to pull, but she politely declined, but perhaps it will happen when I see her again next week. She texted me back that she "had a lovely time
". Which is rare for me, usually I only get that if I actually had sex with a girl, and definitely NOT when they refuse my pull. So I really felt like I was on the right track here.
Anyway, back to this story...
The Meet
Was out approaching with @Kvothe . He pointed out "she's ur type". I laughed and said "yes she is", and followed her into the grocery store. Once there, while she was looking at fruit, I just walked up to her, said "hey there, you have a VERY stylish outfit", and asked her name. She was fairly shy/evasive throughout. We had some mild chit chat about what she's up to (buying groceries duh), and what our jobs were. I decided to just hail-mary and ask "are you single" and ask to exchange numbers. She was like "okay sure". It was pretty clear she wanted to shoo me away to continue groceries.
I didn't think this would go anywhere, but she responded with a "nice to meet u too" to my ice breaker text.
I followed up the next day with a "consideration" text, i.e. hope u found ur groceries, and then asked for her schedule to meet. She responded I'm available Saturday evening and Monday evening. That was a good sign, to give me exact time frames. I suggested two restaurants, she picked one, and we confirmed the time.
First Date
It was a medium-tier restaurant right outside my apartment. I figure, if I'm going to "never not be sexual", then wtf might as well pick a place right outside my apartment, because I'm definitely going to go for the pull no matter what.
She showed up, dressed better than when I met her. Very stylish, showing lots of legs. I oogled her obviously and unapologetically (because I'm not ashamed to be sexual now). We went into the restaurant, ordered some food, and started chatting.
TBH, I thought the date was going WORSE than the one with the latina, for several reasons:
- she's way less "passionate", and way more logical. So we ended up having a lot of intellectual discussions
- I tried to frame her as hooking up with some guy she was talking about, and she made it clear early on "I don't do hookups"
- she tells me her only dates are with "provider types". Like she'll always have a fancy dinner first date, and then the second date would be the guy taking her shopping, and he just tosses the credit card at the cashier to indicate that he's paying and flashing his money like it's no big deal.
- whenever I brought up a sexual topic, or said something sexual, she would TOTALLY ignore it, and change topics
But I didn't care. I was going to just keep talking about sex whenever I got the chance, and ignore her frames about only dating providers, and her never hooking up.
By the end of the date, she did finally respond to my sexual topic JUST ONCE. I was talking about how my friend is Christian, and didn't have sex before marriage. And she said it would be a big risk, what if he has a small dick? I laughed and dove into this a bit.
The Bounce
I paid the bill, and we went outside.
Outside, I'm gonna fucking try the pull. So a few steps outside the restaurant, I looked her up and down sexually (which she could feel, if she didn't see), and asked her "hey, can I make you a drink before you head home? (silence) I have some fine whiskeys back at my place.... (silence) .... or maybe tea if you're not into that?" And she responds quickly/quietly "okay, let's have a tea".
So I lead a couple blocks back to my apartment, while immediately changing topics and talking about other random stuff so as to not make it awkward.
We go back to my place, I let her get comfortable, and I prepare some tea.
Escalation
We sit on the couch. She's on the VERY EDGE of the couch, she's got her arms AND legs CROSSED. So a very very defensive and closed off position.
It doesn't really phase me though. I just bring her tea, sit close but not too close to her, and caress her leg/arm lightly, and make conversation.
Every time I move my hands to somewhere more sexual, like brushing against her boob, she moves it away. And says something like "not on the first date". However, she's still smiling overall, and she's not getting up to leave.
This LMR continues... probably for 2 hours. I don't really mind though, cause I think she's pretty and I'm into her, and I want to fuck her, and this is a good learning experience.
It's super obvious to me that she likes me, but I'm not making her feel special enough, and so her anti-slut defense is kicking in. Before, I didn't really understand this, and I would kinda just keep trying to escalate, and hope shit works? But this time, my basic technique was to escalate (touch her in progressively more sexual areas) while simultaneously deep diving her, asking her opinions on things, talking about serious topics, basically show that I was interested in her.
After 2 hours of this, eventually she gives in, and I manage to stick my finger in her pussy and rub her G-spot. That's when it's finally ON, and she doesn't resist anymore. She's still fully wearing tight jean shorts, and I am wearing tight jeans, but I manage to barely slip inside her and get some awkward thrusts in (totally chafing the hell out of my dick), before we stop to strip. While we're stripping she stops to declare "we're NOT doing this, got it?". I very seriously reply "right, we're absolutely NOT doing this". And proceed to tear her clothes off and fuck her silly without a condom.
Sex
Sex was pretty good. She has a nice body, and she's really tight, and she responded very well to my new somewhat more animalistic sexual vibe. We cuddled cutely afterwards, and continued chatting for an hour or so, before I called her a cab home. She kissed me passionately on goodbye, and left me a nice text. Will try to see her again soon.
Insights/Takeaways
- I have NEVER hooked up on the first date with a girl so upfront-resistant to sex. Usually I don't hook up with them at all, or only after many dates. Not needing permission to be sexual, and ignoring her anti-sex frames, established the baseline that "listen girl, I'm about sex, I know ur also about sex no matter what u say, but we can keep pretending if u like". Which led her to eventually warm towards it, and also led her to pretty easily agree to my apartment pull immediately after the meal, and also it wasn't a surprise at ALL when I started escalating physically back at my place.
- During the escalation, just having a lot more seduction understanding and empathy, made me know exactly how she was feeling, and exactly what to do (provide compassion and interest in her, to make her not feel like a slut, while physically escalating slowly and KEEP DOING IT UNTIL IT WORKS)
- This was a case where, the girl was not unusually interested in me, nor especially horny, but my BEHAVIOR and SEDUCTION caused her to become unusually interested in me and eventually especially horny. This is a serious FIRST for me.
- Despite saying clearly "I don't do hookups", and she only goes on dates with provider types who buy her expensive gifts, she totally had unprotected sex with me on the first date. AND SHE LOVED IT AND KISSED ME PASSIONATELY GOODBYE AND SENT ME A NICE TEXT AFTERWARDS. Another FIRST for me. Just having it happen to me in person is such a mind-blower.
^ All these are going to change the way I go about dates forever (don't need permission to be sexual, this is the way.....).
I realize that all my "revelations" are already covered in GC articles. But, honestly just reading articles has only gotten me so far. The problem is that seduction is such a complicated multi-layer endeavor. That means a lot of the advice in articles is straight up contradictory, written for different audiences for different skill levels. I will probably try something a few times, and give up once it doesn't work.
But there are some things that I specifically need to try, and also focus on for months despite not really getting anywhere. But I have no idea wtf I should be focusing on. That's the value of a seduction coach, someone so vastly ahead of me in social understanding, that he can prescribe exactly the right advice for who I am, what my weaknesses are, and where I am in my seduction journey.
This was not one of those cases. I pulled off this "difficult" seduction in a fairly ideal way due solely to improvements in my game from Hector.
People
Me: early 30s asian entrepreneur
Her: mid/late 20s SE asian girl, tall, thin, cute, very fashionable, works in marketing
Background
I've recently been focusing on one thing with Hector: not needing permission to be sexual, and sexualizing the date early. This has been a YEARS-LONG struggle for me. I've read every GC article on creating a sexual vibe, using sexual gambits, sex talk, etc. And I've tried all of them. And they've never worked for me.
Most of my dates would feel like we're just circling around boring topics, or sometimes interesting but non-sexual topics. And I knew I wanted to sexualize them, but it was never congruent. It always felt really weird when I randomly brought up some sex topic, and she wouldn't really buy into it, and I would just feel like a weirdo. Once in a blue moon I would accidentally stumble onto a sexual topic and have her latch onto it.
Hector's advice here was first, to understand that I've had some mild sexual trauma. I've been raised up in a typical asexual asian household, and I've also had a few negative sexual experiences like 2 years ago (girl became super clingy/stalkerish, girl became super vengeful/angry when I didn't want to see her anymore, girl I liked ghosted me after I tried to pull her claiming it was 'offensive'). These all contributed to me being way more shy around inviting a girl to my apartment, which I didn't use to have when I just started cold approaching.
His second advice was explaining that NO girl will ever be offended by me being sexual, in fact, that will turn them on, and if not, they will at least respect you, especially if you do it in a cool calibrated way. So just be sexual, doesn't matter if she's a Christian or uber conservative, the right answer is always to be sexual. And as for the tactic of actually doing it, he told me to forget about all the gambit stuff, and just realize that all it takes is to say one or two things, that let her know "okayy, this guy has balls". And kinda keep doing that and "penetrate" the armor deeper and deeper until she buys into your sexual frame.
So I ran with this advice. Had a date 2 days ago, with a hot latina. I was fairly intimidated, thinking she's used to really sexual latino men, and she would probably be testing me the whole time. But instead I just acted normally, perhaps a bit more loose cannon than usual, giving no fucks about being "offensive", and every time I had an even mildly sexual thought, I would be sure to mention sex and be unapologetic about it. I.e. we were into a deep intellectual discussion about Tchaikovsky, and she was like "you know he's gay right?". And I would say "oh, he must have had TONS of sex then". By the end of the date, she was openly bringing up sexual topics thinking it's so refreshing to talk about this stuff with a guy who isn't weird about it. I did try to pull, but she politely declined, but perhaps it will happen when I see her again next week. She texted me back that she "had a lovely time
". Which is rare for me, usually I only get that if I actually had sex with a girl, and definitely NOT when they refuse my pull. So I really felt like I was on the right track here.Anyway, back to this story...
The Meet
Was out approaching with @Kvothe . He pointed out "she's ur type". I laughed and said "yes she is", and followed her into the grocery store. Once there, while she was looking at fruit, I just walked up to her, said "hey there, you have a VERY stylish outfit", and asked her name. She was fairly shy/evasive throughout. We had some mild chit chat about what she's up to (buying groceries duh), and what our jobs were. I decided to just hail-mary and ask "are you single" and ask to exchange numbers. She was like "okay sure". It was pretty clear she wanted to shoo me away to continue groceries.
I didn't think this would go anywhere, but she responded with a "nice to meet u too" to my ice breaker text.
I followed up the next day with a "consideration" text, i.e. hope u found ur groceries, and then asked for her schedule to meet. She responded I'm available Saturday evening and Monday evening. That was a good sign, to give me exact time frames. I suggested two restaurants, she picked one, and we confirmed the time.
First Date
It was a medium-tier restaurant right outside my apartment. I figure, if I'm going to "never not be sexual", then wtf might as well pick a place right outside my apartment, because I'm definitely going to go for the pull no matter what.
She showed up, dressed better than when I met her. Very stylish, showing lots of legs. I oogled her obviously and unapologetically (because I'm not ashamed to be sexual now). We went into the restaurant, ordered some food, and started chatting.
TBH, I thought the date was going WORSE than the one with the latina, for several reasons:
- she's way less "passionate", and way more logical. So we ended up having a lot of intellectual discussions
- I tried to frame her as hooking up with some guy she was talking about, and she made it clear early on "I don't do hookups"
- she tells me her only dates are with "provider types". Like she'll always have a fancy dinner first date, and then the second date would be the guy taking her shopping, and he just tosses the credit card at the cashier to indicate that he's paying and flashing his money like it's no big deal.
- whenever I brought up a sexual topic, or said something sexual, she would TOTALLY ignore it, and change topics
But I didn't care. I was going to just keep talking about sex whenever I got the chance, and ignore her frames about only dating providers, and her never hooking up.
By the end of the date, she did finally respond to my sexual topic JUST ONCE. I was talking about how my friend is Christian, and didn't have sex before marriage. And she said it would be a big risk, what if he has a small dick? I laughed and dove into this a bit.
The Bounce
I paid the bill, and we went outside.
Outside, I'm gonna fucking try the pull. So a few steps outside the restaurant, I looked her up and down sexually (which she could feel, if she didn't see), and asked her "hey, can I make you a drink before you head home? (silence) I have some fine whiskeys back at my place.... (silence) .... or maybe tea if you're not into that?" And she responds quickly/quietly "okay, let's have a tea".
So I lead a couple blocks back to my apartment, while immediately changing topics and talking about other random stuff so as to not make it awkward.
We go back to my place, I let her get comfortable, and I prepare some tea.
Escalation
We sit on the couch. She's on the VERY EDGE of the couch, she's got her arms AND legs CROSSED. So a very very defensive and closed off position.
It doesn't really phase me though. I just bring her tea, sit close but not too close to her, and caress her leg/arm lightly, and make conversation.
Every time I move my hands to somewhere more sexual, like brushing against her boob, she moves it away. And says something like "not on the first date". However, she's still smiling overall, and she's not getting up to leave.
This LMR continues... probably for 2 hours. I don't really mind though, cause I think she's pretty and I'm into her, and I want to fuck her, and this is a good learning experience.
It's super obvious to me that she likes me, but I'm not making her feel special enough, and so her anti-slut defense is kicking in. Before, I didn't really understand this, and I would kinda just keep trying to escalate, and hope shit works? But this time, my basic technique was to escalate (touch her in progressively more sexual areas) while simultaneously deep diving her, asking her opinions on things, talking about serious topics, basically show that I was interested in her.
After 2 hours of this, eventually she gives in, and I manage to stick my finger in her pussy and rub her G-spot. That's when it's finally ON, and she doesn't resist anymore. She's still fully wearing tight jean shorts, and I am wearing tight jeans, but I manage to barely slip inside her and get some awkward thrusts in (totally chafing the hell out of my dick), before we stop to strip. While we're stripping she stops to declare "we're NOT doing this, got it?". I very seriously reply "right, we're absolutely NOT doing this". And proceed to tear her clothes off and fuck her silly without a condom.
Sex
Sex was pretty good. She has a nice body, and she's really tight, and she responded very well to my new somewhat more animalistic sexual vibe. We cuddled cutely afterwards, and continued chatting for an hour or so, before I called her a cab home. She kissed me passionately on goodbye, and left me a nice text. Will try to see her again soon.
Insights/Takeaways
- I have NEVER hooked up on the first date with a girl so upfront-resistant to sex. Usually I don't hook up with them at all, or only after many dates. Not needing permission to be sexual, and ignoring her anti-sex frames, established the baseline that "listen girl, I'm about sex, I know ur also about sex no matter what u say, but we can keep pretending if u like". Which led her to eventually warm towards it, and also led her to pretty easily agree to my apartment pull immediately after the meal, and also it wasn't a surprise at ALL when I started escalating physically back at my place.
- During the escalation, just having a lot more seduction understanding and empathy, made me know exactly how she was feeling, and exactly what to do (provide compassion and interest in her, to make her not feel like a slut, while physically escalating slowly and KEEP DOING IT UNTIL IT WORKS)
- This was a case where, the girl was not unusually interested in me, nor especially horny, but my BEHAVIOR and SEDUCTION caused her to become unusually interested in me and eventually especially horny. This is a serious FIRST for me.
- Despite saying clearly "I don't do hookups", and she only goes on dates with provider types who buy her expensive gifts, she totally had unprotected sex with me on the first date. AND SHE LOVED IT AND KISSED ME PASSIONATELY GOODBYE AND SENT ME A NICE TEXT AFTERWARDS. Another FIRST for me. Just having it happen to me in person is such a mind-blower.
^ All these are going to change the way I go about dates forever (don't need permission to be sexual, this is the way.....).
I realize that all my "revelations" are already covered in GC articles. But, honestly just reading articles has only gotten me so far. The problem is that seduction is such a complicated multi-layer endeavor. That means a lot of the advice in articles is straight up contradictory, written for different audiences for different skill levels. I will probably try something a few times, and give up once it doesn't work.
But there are some things that I specifically need to try, and also focus on for months despite not really getting anywhere. But I have no idea wtf I should be focusing on. That's the value of a seduction coach, someone so vastly ahead of me in social understanding, that he can prescribe exactly the right advice for who I am, what my weaknesses are, and where I am in my seduction journey.
