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What are the things that you have learnt to avoid doing in group conversations?

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Space Monkey
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I have moved recently to a western country and would like to know what are some social mistakes you used to do or seen people do and would be best to avoid?

Ones I know are
(1) Being Rude
(2) Making one upping jokes
(3) Bragging
(4) Continuously talking about oneself.
 
the right date makes getting her back home a piece of cake

Train

Chieftan
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Some things I've learned to not do:

  1. Focusing on only a subset of the group. Basically ignoring others unless they're wrapped up in their own conversation. Very offputting.
  2. Dominating the conversation and not letting others get a word in. I've disliked groups where I can't get a word in and am just an observer. I'll go home and just watch tv for that lol.
  3. Not switching topics to let others join in. I've had friends just sit and watch because even though they could talk, the topic was not their expertise so they had no banter.
  4. Speaking in a different language. Should be obvious but it happens lol.

If I had to summarize, I learned to make sure everyone is able to partake and feel part of the convo.
 

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Space Monkey
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Speaking in a different language. Should be obvious but it happens lol.
This is a thing with groups where most members are Indians, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, etc.

They speak in their own language and eventually everyone who doesn't speak that language leaves.
 

Will_V

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Don't speak unless you have something to express. Gap fillers are not very popular and are seen as opportunists and noisemakers. Quiet people attract curiosity, but you have to show engagement as well for that curiosity to flourish.

Learn to absorb attention from others rather than asking for it.

Don't opportunistically put anyone down, everyone else might laugh, but they will remember.

Learn to control your attention, don't just be following the energy of the conversation around like a cat staring at a laser flitting around on the wall. Your attention is a more important commodity than your words and actions, and can be made to appear even more valuable by the way you use it.

Don't forget that a group is made up of individuals.
 

Kaida

Cro-Magnon Man
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Don't speak unless you have something to express. Gap fillers are not very popular and are seen as opportunists and noisemakers. Quiet people attract curiosity, but you have to show engagement as well for that curiosity to flourish.

Learn to absorb attention from others rather than asking for it.

Don't opportunistically put anyone down, everyone else might laugh, but they will remember.

Learn to control your attention, don't just be following the energy of the conversation around like a cat staring at a laser flitting around on the wall. Your attention is a more important commodity than your words and actions, and can be made to appear even more valuable by the way you use it.

Don't forget that a group is made up of individuals.

Great notes!

If you don’t mind, can you go more in detail on controlling your attention and learning to absorb attention from others?
 

Will_V

Chieftan
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Great notes!

If you don’t mind, can you go more in detail on controlling your attention and learning to absorb attention from others?

Your attention is what people want, it's as simple as that.

Whether it's a girl wanting your sexual attention or your validation, or a guy wanting your friendship, approval, validation, or respect, they all want your attention.

Attention is a powerful thing. Without it Schroedingers cat is neither dead or alive. When it arrives, it changes everything.

Meditation (contrary to popular belief) is not about relaxing, nor feeling good or bad, but simply about attention control. The only popular exercise for the human mind, the only conscious practice of bettering the human mind in existence, revolves entirely around attention and where it goes.

Without attention, what even exists? If nobody ever saw something or perceived it, it might as well not have been.

Remember the adage "If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" That's a question entirely about attention, and whether it is there or not. Attention creates reality, without it, there is nothing.

...

Most people spend their attention like it is utterly meaningless. They scatter it everywhere, hoping that it will manifest something useful. All over social media feeds, all over TV, all over ads and beeps and burbles. What this means is that the rubbish they apply their attention to exists more than they themselves do (but that's a different story).

In a group, you will notice that the first thing that someone who perceives themselves as low status does is start spending their attention furiously. This is because they want attention back. But it doesn't work that way - those who spend attention carelessly are seen as people from whom all attention can and will be taken.

Desperate guys gape at women, hoping for attention back. Desperate people in social situations (and especially the socially anxious) spray attention everywhere. Those who perceive themselves as being at risk socially try to bribe people with attention in return for a clear and stable social position. Nice guys especially are like this. What ends up however is that they spend far more than they receive, and they remain stuck in a loop where they get just enough to survive, but not enough to establish anything they really want.

...

Those who do not seek attention, but who still express themselves easily and are not hiding, are perceived to either have enough or not want it, both of which are spectacularly unusual and place them either as far ahead of the competition or well outside of it. This instantly captures everyone's attention, before they even know it, because they must resolve this question as to where the person is coming from. This is why teasing and ambiguity works well with women, because the question of what just happened or is happening, whether you want her or not, whether you think she's hot or not, in short what your attention makes of her, causes her to be incredibly curious and steals her attention in spades.

Have you ever gotten an IOI from a girl when you were looking at her out of your peripheral vision, and then you looked directly at her and her interest evaporated? The question was resolved, and/or it was not replaced with another question. Questions, ambiguity, these are the passions of the attention.

...

So what of a group situation? What I would say is: everyone should think that the person next to them has your attention. What works spectacularly is when your body language and your vibe appears to be communicating with someone but nobody knows who it is. Have you ever walked up next to a hot girl, looked right past her and smiled teasingly? She'll spin around and see who's there. She has to know if it's her or who or what is going on. It's the same in social situations (a lot more subtle of course).

One good way to engage everyone in a group is to reach out and touch each person with your attention, and then move on. They will try to get it back and wonder why it left. Soon they will be giving you a lot of attention.

Now if you give someone attention, and especially if it is clear validation, make sure they know what it is for, and why. Because whatever it is they did to get it is something they will do again and again (if you don't give it any other way). If that something is negative (e.g. they tooled you and you can't stop thinking about it and reacting to it) you are going to have to put up with a lot of button pushing before they realize it doesn't work any more (if in fact you can help yourself from reacting to begin with). Self control is paramount in social situations, but primarily it is attention control. You are controlling yourself in order to retain control of your attention - it is no good if you pretend to be looking the other way but your leg starts shaking, your face goes rigid, or you start fidgeting. The question is, where is your attention? Your body reveals that.

This all might sound a bit silly and pedantic. But the fact is that the currency of social transactions is attention, and the man who spends a dollar to get $1000 back is admired by everyone, because everyone knows how powerful social skills can be, in terms of seducing women, influencing people in general, and having one's way amid the chaos of social competition.

And it is not about withholding your attention entirely - but curating it, knowing where it goes and why, like the money from your bank account. Whenever it goes out, it should be for something important to you.

...

That is my 2c. I would be very interested to hear if @Chase has anything to say on this thread, such as about sprezzatura. I've learned a lot from the Girls Chase articles on that and related topics that I've applied in my own life.
 

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Space Monkey
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Great notes!

If you don’t mind, can you go more in detail on controlling your attention and learning to absorb attention from others?
Will made an excellent post.

I'll expand on the meditation he brought up, because that's essentially strength training for attention control or focus. The concept is wrapped up in a lot of woo woo, and I was confused about it for a long time until things clicked. Now its extremely valuable to me, and is quite scientific in nature.

Here's what you do:
Choose one thing to focus on for a set amount of time (10-25 minutes), whether its your breathing, or slowly counting to 4 repeatedly, or a very short phrase you mentally repeat. The goal is to ONLY focus on this one thing the entire time, at face value (don't go into deep thought on a topic, just repeat the words themselves). You'll find that this is very difficult, almost immediately your mind will start to go other places. When you catch this happening, return to the thing you're focusing on. Over and over until the clock runs out. Its very hard, very challenging, like lifting weights with your mind.

What this does for you:
What you're witnessing is the degree to which your subconscious dominates your mind, over YOU, the guy in charge of your mind. If YOU, the guy in charge of your mind, chooses to only count to 4 for 10 minutes, then ANYTHING ELSE entering your mind during that time is your subconscious fucking with you, trying to take control and throw you off your intention.

Its quite mind boggling how little control of our minds we actually have. The subconscious fights hard each and every second to throw YOU, the guy in charge of your mind, off from your intended focus. The subconscious is actively sabotaging your intentions each and every moment.

Over time, your ability to ignore/silence the subconscious becomes stronger. Thus, YOU, the guy in charge of your mind, becomes more mentally powerful and in control. Your focus strength grows, your ability to control your attention grows, your ability to silence negative or useless thoughts grows, your ability to act with intention at any given moment grows. This is what's meant when you hear people say "you become more conscious." By learning to silence/ignore the subconscious, YOU, the guy in charge of your mind, the "conscious," gains more control of your mind.

Its a great exercise. Doesn't have to take more than 10 minutes a day. Will be very hard and tedious at first, but as your focus strength grows you'll see benefits spill out all over the place, anywhere attention and focus are helpful, which is almost everywhere.
 

Kaida

Cro-Magnon Man
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Will made an excellent post.

I'll expand on the meditation he brought up, because that's essentially strength training for attention control or focus. The concept is wrapped up in a lot of woo woo, and I was confused about it for a long time until things clicked. Now its extremely valuable to me, and is quite scientific in nature.

Here's what you do:
Choose one thing to focus on for a set amount of time (10-25 minutes), whether its your breathing, or slowly counting to 4 repeatedly, or a very short phrase you mentally repeat. The goal is to ONLY focus on this one thing the entire time, at face value (don't go into deep thought on a topic, just repeat the words themselves). You'll find that this is very difficult, almost immediately your mind will start to go other places. When you catch this happening, return to the thing you're focusing on. Over and over until the clock runs out. Its very hard, very challenging, like lifting weights with your mind.

What this does for you:
What you're witnessing is the degree to which your subconscious dominates your mind, over YOU, the guy in charge of your mind. If YOU, the guy in charge of your mind, chooses to only count to 4 for 10 minutes, then ANYTHING ELSE entering your mind during that time is your subconscious fucking with you, trying to take control and throw you off your intention.

Its quite mind boggling how little control of our minds we actually have. The subconscious fights hard each and every second to throw YOU, the guy in charge of your mind, off from your intended focus. The subconscious is actively sabotaging your intentions each and every moment.

Over time, your ability to ignore/silence the subconscious becomes stronger. Thus, YOU, the guy in charge of your mind, becomes more mentally powerful and in control. Your focus strength grows, your ability to control your attention grows, your ability to silence negative or useless thoughts grows, your ability to act with intention at any given moment grows. This is what's meant when you hear people say "you become more conscious." By learning to silence/ignore the subconscious, YOU, the guy in charge of your mind, the "conscious," gains more control of your mind.

Its a great exercise. Doesn't have to take more than 10 minutes a day. Will be very hard and tedious at first, but as your focus strength grows you'll see benefits spill out all over the place, anywhere attention and focus are helpful, which is almost everywhere.

Meditation is definitely the best habit I’ve gotten into. I’ve been doing meditation for about 15 minutes every day for the past month and I can see the changes.

One thing I’m confused on though is the difference between focus mediation (like the one you described) and thought awareness meditation - where you sit there observing your thoughts to improve self awareness. Are they different or can they be combined?

Everytime I do purely just focus meditation, it’s like i’m “kicking” out the thoughts and returning to the breath before I really have a chance to observe and understand them. It feels unnatural and janky. I keep feeling like I’m doing it wrong, because my mind tends to feel quieter if I dont interfere with the thought and let it run free while keeping a somewhat focus in my breath.
 

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Space Monkey
space monkey
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I practice ignoring the thought and maintaining my intended focus, no matter what. Just "shoop". . gone. A clear mindspace run by me, anchored to breathing and a repetitive set of mental words. Whenever I feel a bit off balance in life, I can go to that mindspace of clarity and control in seconds by focusing on the anchored breathing and words. The more I meditate, the stronger that space becomes and the easier it is to immediately access. Its helped make me solid as a rock and unable to be shook.

The issue with putting too much energy towards observing and understanding your subconscious thoughts is that they're mostly distractions, and you focusing on them is exactly what they want. They want unfettered access to your mindspace, they don't want you to control them. The more space you give over to the subconscious, the more power it has and the less power your conscious has. Each subconscious pattern essentially has its own ego and fights for life, which only exists when you allow it your focus. The subconscious patterns will hit you with feelings of extreme importance, and you'll feel a sense of loss when you push them away. You want to learn to ignore all that and not be manipulated.

That's how some modern meditation books like The Power of Now frame the various subconscious patterns that push into your mind, as individual egos fighting for life. That book is worth a quick read, at least the first chapter.
 

Osiris

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This is why teasing and ambiguity works well with women,
What kind of Mindset are you in when you tease a girl? I find it difficult to keep teasing playfully and continue the back and forth.
for eg:
Her: Takes my picture
Me : You take terrible pictures of me
Her: Are you saying it's my fault? ( not sure if answering yes will kill the vibe)
Me: Not sure
Her: Next time take your own pictures :p
Me: Stares at her playfully
How could I have bettered this conversation, what is the mindset that allows you to come up with such lines?
 

Will_V

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What kind of Mindset are you in when you tease a girl? I find it difficult to keep teasing playfully and continue the back and forth.
for eg:
Her: Takes my picture
Me : You take terrible pictures of me
Her: Are you saying it's my fault? ( not sure if answering yes will kill the vibe)
Me: Not sure
Her: Next time take your own pictures :p
Me: Stares at her playfully
How could I have bettered this conversation, what is the mindset that allows you to come up with such lines?
Smiles and attention, eye contact are necessary for teasing. Think of it like this, if you smile, lean toward a girl and look deep in her eyes and say 'I don't think we'll get along' she cannot react to your words because everything else tells a different story.

Teasing requires you to communicate two things, one with your mouth and another with body language.

Also don't say 'not sure' it communicates uncertainty which is not the same as ambiguity.

So if you look at the picture then look straight at her, smile mischievously, take a step toward her, hold eye contact for a second and say to her, 'you take such terrible pictures' in a chocolate voice, it's very different from standing two metres away, hunched over peering into the camera, not meeting her gaze, and saying the same thing in a completely normal voice.
 
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