What do moaners and incels have in common?

[Vision]

Some people are incredibly attached to their beliefs... regardless of truth, regardless of how it hinders their lives, regardless of how much better their lives would be if they changed them.

They hold their beliefs close to their hearts because they're familiar, easy, and comfortable.

Change takes time, it's uncomfortable at first, and it's scary... but you can't sail to the promise land if you're still attached to the dock.

Let go of the dock guys... let go of the dock. That's the only way you'll find something new.

 

[Bismarck]

It's easy to let negative thoughts ruin your self-confidence, especially if you suffer from some sort of chronic ailment (my case is low back pain, that I am yet to heal properly). But, get this: what you tell yourself defines who you are and the way you interact with the world.

And when it is negative you let lots of opportunities pass you by, because you don't believe you deserve them.

However, when you take action, it feels so good!!!

Just today, a few hours ago, I walked out the house and, even though I caught a bout of gripe yesterday (and yesterday, feeling weak, lethargic and groggy, in the throes of a throatache, I let at least 6 dimes pass me by on the street), and am still recovering, I couldn't resist this Russian 10 who was semi-stationary, and clearly a tourist.

I approached her and it felt so fucking good!!! You know why? Because it proved that my AA was just that, AA. That I do go for what I want. That I face my fears like a man instead of turning around like a mouse. You definitely need fundamentals (be they hairstyle, grooming, posture, clothes style, voice tonality, voice projection, eye contact) and game to go for the girls all guys want.

I can vouch for what Chase is saying that having a good job, an advanced degree, yadda yadda, won't give you SHIT. It's important to unplug from this "Field of Dreams" (Kevin Costner picture) beta imaginary blue pill reality where you simply get a 10 landing on your lap because you're good with deliverables in your 9-to-5 cubicle.

 

[POB]

However, when you take action, it feels so good!!!

Some guys could definitely cure their mental masturbation by just going out and talking to one beautiful woman once a day for a week.
And I'm not even talking about pulling or anything like that, just a regular conversation.

 

[Tim Iron]

Fundamentals aren't vague, you can find articles on improving them. Start with the "How to be a Sexy Man" article. Use every option to meet women and ignore your ratio, just keep meeting and approaching women while improving your fundamentals and seduction skills.

NOTE: I will not reply to any moaner, so please don't quote me.

 

[Starboy]

Apparently he could use some of the Girlschase's tips

Is this what neo direct game is? Cuz if it is I don't have to worry about if i'm neo direct

 

[StrayDog]

Is this what neo direct game is? Cuz if it is I don't have to worry about if i'm neo direct

This shit is beyond, bro. There might be a term for it but it aint neo direct

 

[DonKiwi]

I've identified as incel since I was 12...
...Even before the term first compared on a major news outlet, I was even proposed the role of moderator for one of the lergest incel forums but I declined. I've recovered only in the last year, at 24. I don't know anyone with as much incel experience as me, even online it's very hard to find someone like me. I could write a book on incel history and cultural influences at this point. I don't know how to feel about it, it took many years of experiece away from me but, on the other hand, struggling so much has made me realise the value of many things people take for granted.
Several factors contributed to my situation.: I was a nerd, spent time studying and playing videogames instead of going out, never talked to girls out of fear of judgment.

How did I overcome inceldom?
1) Therapy helped me get over my obsessive negative thoughts and insecurities around women, dating and looks. 2) I like reading, I read a lot of studies on human attraction, gender differences in attraction especially, read the opinions of thousands of women and finally internalized the reality of things: incel beliefs were wrong all along. Both stages were very important, getting over my negative thoughts alone was short-lived if I didn't replace my incel beliefs with more credible beliefs, reading studies and other non-incel material alone wasn't enough because my negative emotions didn't allow me to internalize what I was reading on an emotional level.

During my two years of recovery (late 2020-2022) I've worked on my social skills, joined different volunteering organizations and hobbies. I can finally say that I'm ready to date emotionally and during the journey I also acquired a good set of social skills that will come handy when learning seduction. Learning seduction without knowing how to talk to people is a mistake that many recovering incels do as it can turn you into a robot or even stop you from acting, this is probably why many of them have a bad opinion about PUAs (one he most popular incels forums in the 2010s was named puahate for a reason). A good non-natural PUA knows how to mix left brain and right brain tasks, routines are important but so are the emotions you convey with your execution and you can't learn this on books.

Reasons behind the incel phenomenon
The reason I think incels have become such a big phenomenon is the internet and digital devices. Porn, videogames and social media have stunted the emotional growth of many young males, many guys today lack emotional intelligence and social skills which are the main tools men have to attract women. I was reading a study that tried to understand the reason behind the epidemics of young sexless men in the US, they identified a significative correlation between videogames usage and sexless in men (not in women).
Women rely on looks, as males are visual creatures, to get validation and looks is easily conveyed through apps. We know how unevenly distributed attention is on social media, a woman can easily gets tons of validation while a man gets nearly 0, this can easily lead a man with no social life to believe in incel and blackpill concepts if they don't understand female attraction. Add feminism that has made almost taboo to discuss gender differences too openly and you get a generation of men who doesn't have tools to attract women, compares themselves to women without realising that they are men, and doesn't even know where to find the right tools, I'm probably more feminist than most users in this forum but I do realise that some branches of feminism are based on skewed logic and ideas, this can often hurt men.

 

[TomInHo]

@Chase some guys did everything seduction teaches like focusing on development of masculine traits, relatable personality, etc. and still it didn’t work. I don’t say these things seduction teaches us aren’t true. But simply, some men (like I) were born undesirable just like someone was born sick and there is not cure for that. We don’t use anymore mainstream, red pill (whatever color pill) advices but true, objective, scientific things like here on Girls Ghase or similar sites. Still it works for other guys but not us.

I see where you're going with all this stuff about being undesirable but take a second to think... If your mother thought your dad was undesirable, why do you exist?

All the men in your heritage before you were able to successfully reproduce, so it's illogical to say that your genes are undesirable. Because apparently they lasted this long into existence

Simply game can’t work good if fundamentals and vibe are bad and because we were born undesirable we can’t have good fundamentals and vibe. For example, on paper everything with my generally fundamentals is fine i.e. how seduction teach us but girls are intentionally focused on finding things that don’t like in me. I have super high masculine traits and warm personality and besides attention girls want nothing from me and majority of girls not even that.

Your problem is you're too focused on what's good on paper vs what's really happening in the real world...

- If your fundamentals were really that good, people will approach you consistently.
- If your personality was truly so warm, people will move mountains to spend time with you because you make them feel good.
- If you were super masculine, people would defer to your authority on default

Look my man, just because you read something and tried it a few times doesn't mean you truly grasp the concept.

Because if you've never played basketball before, I could show you all the tech and tricks to have the perfect jump shot. But until you actually practice it constantly will you be able to execute it like the vision in your dreams

Then some of those guys came here, get advice just learn the game, you aren’t matter and she will be yours. Then they see some other man applying similar advices/or not even that and get women without much effort while they can’t even after hundreds of attempts and get really upset about women and their life. Then return here, get advice to improve game and if they are dedicated waste months or years on improving, and after dozens of rejections, ghostings, flakes or other forms of humiliation lose motivation for anything while normal guys, i.e. guys who were born with predisposition to be likable to women criticise us we didn’t try enough or that we are autistics and don’t see reality as it is.

I'm sorry but you obviously do not have high masculine traits like you claim.

Because a masculine man would not be comparing others success to his own and then quit. In fact it would probably enrage him, that others are supposedly doing better than him. The damage to his ego will make him work even harder for success

Masculine men don't see obstacles to justify their mediocrity, instead they see challenges to overcome that prove their greatness

Realize @Chase some men were born with very low or no potential to be liked by women and have much harder task or impossible task in getting women. Just like someone was born sick, deaf, retarded, etc.

To sum it up, you have to accept you're not as good as you claim. But luckily, that can change if you're willing to put in the work and fully commit.

TLDR: Incels and moaners are just dudes with overinflated egos... the irony

 

[topcat]

Masculine men don't see obstacles to justify their mediocrity, instead they see challenges to overcome that prove their greatness

.

 

[POB]

Is this what neo direct game is? Cuz if it is I don't have to worry about if i'm neo direct

I would never try to pull that way, ever.
It's the definition of cringe in my opinion.

What I would do if I were in his shoes (because she was truly into him, even after he fucked-up the interview):
- first impression, shake her hand in a seductive way;
- take the interview with very subtle sexual innuendos and light NLP so she thinks it's her idea to talk about sexy topics;
- at the end, seed a date with a soft close;
"you seem like a very nice smart girl...maybe we and your friends could hang later so you guys could show me the ways around here"
(meaning: I don't just want to fuck you, I really care about being social and give you a great time with me).
- when the cameras are off, have one of my guys pass her a card with a temporary local number and tell her to call it at X time;

 

[Illystorm]

They would get laid if they *actually* left their house ... *ba dum tss*

Lol terrible joke but that was done to get your attention to something annoyingly popping up on this forum... COMPLAINING

Recently we've seen the same pathetic themes come up again again and again. So I'm making this post to link to when I see the same bs feeling sorry for yourself thread.

I want this to be useful so I'll actually break down the most common things we're seeing and how to overcome them. Let's keep this forum solution focused

Now the reason this annoys me so much is once upon a time I was struggling and not getting the results I wanted. I never made 1 post. Not 1 comment. Not 1 "poor me". None of that shit. I tell what you what did happen though? Some women picked up on my hint of negativity and it effected my results until I made it through the other side.

So this thread is all about stopping yourself from being a moaner, incel, complainer and become that zen guy who's getting laid left and right and can't figure out what all the fuss is about.

In no particular order let's address common moaning themes...

1. Women's standards are too high

Reality: Vast majority of women have well adjusted "realistic standards". Furthermore women's many of women's standards are intangible e.g. confidence, posture, ability to invoke emotion, social skills. All of which are learnt and not reliant on genetics. Men are arguably far shallower because if she's not a certain looks thresholds we're not interested.

Solution(s):

• Come off online dating apps (they're a bubble)
• Stop watching red pill, black pill content. Yes some of it's funny and yes it's nice to have male focused media vs mainstream but it can do more harm than good
• Get laid. Honestly focus more on getting laid and temporarily drop your standards if you have to. Do you think winners are complaining? No they're winning so get to work. I've noticed I've only empathised with this when I've been on a down turn... When getting laid? Really couldn't care
• Read this: Girls: Silly and Cute

2. Women only want [XYZ]

Reality: There are many variables and different women want different things. So focus on women who like what you can provide. For example trying to read poems to a club rat girl isn't going to work but having the same "look" as her favorite artist and pushing/pull will. At the same time showing "designer brands" to a artsy girl will get you laughed at.

Solution(s):

• Understand the different archetypes
• Find your niche/tribe
• Get yourselves having fun around women asap. Nightgame is great for this. Even if it's friendly you'll get this blackhole thinking out your head
• Pay close attention to people when out walking in your day to day life. You'll see many girls who are "hotter" than their boyfriends.
• Understand what women actually want > 1) What Women Want & 2) Genuine Man

3. I can't get laid because of [XYZ]

Reality: The world does not owe you any understanding. You have a problem and you can blame the world and keep getting poor results or perform "smart" work.

Solution(s):

• I'll just say it straight for a lot of you you can't get laid because: 1. fundamentals and/or 2. social skills are terrible or 3. your standards are too high
• Be honest with yourself to figure out which of the 3 it is. Put the ego aside share your outfit, interactions/reports and the forum will help you.

4. I hate women

Reality: You adore women but they aren't giving you what you want so it's easier to auto-reject and say you hate them vs figure it out

Solution(s):

• Empathize with girl life
• Get laid more (again temporarily drop standards if you have to)
• Read and understand this: What Women Want

5. I was never popular at school and want to become Instagram famous

Reality: Being "famous" is more troublesome than it's worth ESPECIALLY for a competent seducer. I've lost girls due to being too flashy with social media stories in the past

Solution(s):

• Meditate and work out if your need to be "Instagram famous" is something you want or something you've just adopted from wider society
• Fill in your need to be sociable (which is natural) by hanging out with like minded people who you genuinely like through shared hobbies
• Build a cool instagram, get a whole lot of validation then realize it's hollow/fickle and go full circle
• Read this and this

6. What's the perfect way to do [XYZ]

Reality: You'll always get more no's than yes'. Stop overthinking and tweak as you go. Should be focused on 1. Getting a process that works 2. Increasing the success rate of that process

Solution(s):

• Pick an avenue of game I.E : Daygame, Nightgame, Social Circle or Online and hit hard until you master it before trying something new
• Read the forum classics. Skills Text Guide, Teevster Sexual Prizing

Onwards & Upwards x

Wow I really identify with point 5, due to having been an outcast at school and also because I joined a social circle where many people I know managed to get to 100K followers (cosplay)

I like the solutions you provide, but I shall add that I've always been a lot competitive and perfecionist in all I do
At school I was very good both with grades and in sports

Then, despite intellectual endeavors being my "talent", my "passion" lies in artistic individual sports: Shaolin kungfu, Gymnastics, Parkour... and I combine Bodybuilding with them for the ultimate mix of strength, physique and agility

This year I've decided to work on my Instragram profile (although reluctantly)... but what I really want is to "stand out" in a broader sense (as Girlschase puts it)

That's why I thought to join the military, or some hardcore Shaolin kungfu team, a popular circus or stuff like that

Need to get off the social media trap ASAP

Anyways it would be nice to brainstorm ideas on the topic STANDING OUT

 

[sunnygirl]

This is absolutely true OP, as a girl myself, I've been quite involved in the manosphere as interpersonal relationships interest me a great deal, and especially since I haven't dated yet only still being in high school. Here are a few myths that the redpill gets wrong about most women imo...

"All women practice hypergamy" if a woman was really interested in you, she would literally bend over backwards for you. You just have to set firm boundaries that she will not violate in any certain terms, you can't be a pushover, I was one too and let guys walk all over me, it works the same

"Women have more options than men, they can swipe on Tinder and find hundreds of matches" yeah, it's because men are way thirstier for pvssy than women are for dvck. It's just biology, and women who want to find their Life Partner and start a family early (like me) are not going to be on those hoe apps. You know whose on those dating apps? Women who are low life skanks and hoes

"It's over if you don't have a certain jawline...height..." I mean, going outside you see couples of all heights, ages, ethnicities. Happy. Not thinking about some redpill bluebpilled beta cuck simp crap.

Is the redpill harmful in a moderate dose? I don't think so. I think that even as a woman I've benefitted greatly from being redpill aware as it opened my eyes to the struggles men go through that I wasn't aware of previously. However, taken to the extreme and it can be incredibly harmful and actually sabotage your relationships. It's the exact same on the flip side of the coin, these crazy feminists who want to punish men for the trauma they went through. It's always important to stay balanced on the pendelum.

 

[Glow]

Great post @DoWhatWorks

i further suggest that everyone in here dont spend a second on new incel posts like these whiner topics outlined via OP

Just link to this post, or the beginner exercises , hit ignore and potentially afc rate them as whiners. This is how you use indirect, non time consuming actions to clean out WOTs - waste of timers! Also you dont push them into "Late posts" which steals the attention of the rest of us.

Time spend on this could be better spent elsewhere.
Lets put our attention and posts on skilled seduction - field, field observations, techs, people who are in the arena.
its actually a form of calibration of ourselves to just disregard this. Cool headedness for the win!!

 

[Kaida]

Great post @DoWhatWorks!

Something a bit more abstract that I think goes right over the heads of the incels/moaners is the concept of a man 'on his way up'.

In their world, there only exists the 'haves' and the 'have nots'. Either a guy is on top of the world, famous and loaded, or he's a loser who gets no pussy.

But the reality is that more attractive than either of those is the man 'on his way up'. This is a guy with the soul of a king who was born a peasant. A guy who might be broke and struggling, but acts like it's only a matter of time before he has everything he wants. Women can sniff these out from a mile away, in fact everything about them is designed to find these guys and attach themselves.

Why? Because the way that a woman makes herself irreplaceable is by being part of that man's journey to the top, supporting him. When he gets to the top, she is part of a unique story that could only really happen once. All the other girls he gets would only be hangers on, whereas she would be the one who supported him even when he was nothing. Every girl knows this, which is why she goes around trying to find a man with this spark so she can write this story with him.

Because if she just goes to a rich, top X% guy and offers herself, what can she do for him besides wet his cock? And how is that different from all the other girls that he could get?

She wants to put a man in debt to her, and hope that his ethics don't allow him to kick her out at the end. And for many, many guys, this works a treat.

So the moaners and incels are almost right. There are winners and losers, and women go for the winners and shun the losers. But there are also guys in transition between losing and winning, and like a stock that's on its way up, this is the most valuable thing for a woman, and they all want to be the first to spot it and invest in it.

But for a lot of guys, the world is not dynamic. They cannot see this reality because they consider being a winner or a loser to be a permanent part of someone's identity. Because they think they have tried, and the result was failure, mentally they consider the world to be a rigid set of pigeon holes different people get put into and cannot get out.

Essentially this is a failure of adaptation, which is nature's most mortal of sins.

This makes a lot of sense and is a great angle to come in from.

But in the context of seduction and taking women to bed fast, wouldn’t this technically be increasing your provider value instead of your lover? Wouldn’t framing yourself this way make women wanna make you invest & stick around more

 

[Will_V]

This makes a lot of sense and is a great angle to come in from.

But in the context of seduction and taking women to bed fast, wouldn’t this technically be increasing your provider value instead of your lover? Wouldn’t framing yourself this way make women wanna make you invest & stick around more

That's a good question, I think there's a bunch of reasons why it's different.

First, a woman is instinctively aroused by the speed of progression of a man along the path of his destiny, not so much by his current position. This is because speed is anticipatory, it suggests change, intent, drama, any combination of turmoil or success, and no fixed end point. And when a woman does not have time to measure this speed (because of insufficient time with him) she estimates it by his drive and libido and how much his presentation is positively at odds with his current status. Remember that men are nature's prototypes, and women reproduce successful prototypes, so when a prototype looks like it's going somewhere, naturally she will get aroused because nature is preparing her to reproduce him. And when a prototype looks like he's stuck in a ditch, nature creates impulses to steer clear of him. Such is nature.

Another thing is the context surrounding a man's current position. If he is already able to provide security and stability, and she wants that, then she will naturally slow game him. But if he cannot provide resources, only his drive and libido, then that must be the stand-in for such resources. What else is she going to use to hold onto him?

Remember that nature created sexuality, and nature's one goal is to propagate success in the form of life. Everything in seduction is tied to success. And while many people believe they know what success means, whether that's money or status or whatever, I think nature has only one real definition: the ability to successfully compete in any situation or circumstance - that is, adaptive success in as many of the possible success games that exist. And the greatest predictor of that is the man who is able to move his position in society by sheer force of will.