What do you guys look like?

[Dern]

I keep getting the feeling that girls are rejecting me based on my looks. There were a lot of times today where I opened directly, the girl said thanks, and then started walking away. I mean you might say: 'you just have to persist man! Get her to stop!' But I can tell from girl's body language that they just aren't into me, so what's the point in persisting? And even when I do persist, I'll find that girls keep on walking, saying that they're busy, blah blah blah. And I don't think it has anything to do with my opening, because I've been approaching seriously since July of 2013. I think it has more to do with how I look. So, my question to you guys is: what do you guys look like physically? Please describe all your fundamentals. I'll go first.

I am a skinny Asian guy: 5 ft 9, 140 lbs. I dress like a boss (my favourite outfit is black sneakers, dark blue jeans, belt, tucked in dress shirt, and black leather jacket. I walk like a boss (roll my shoulders to walk, swaying arms). I've been trying to stand straight all the time. Been trying to grow my hair out because I have monkey ears (like my ears legit stick out, while 'normal' people's ears are usually pinned back). So since my hair is getting really long now, I just use moulding puddy to sort of gel my bangs to the side. I've never really thought of my scent. I just shampoo and conditioner and wash my body with soap each day. And before I go out, I apply some deodorant. I don't consider myself nervous around women anymore, so I don't feel the need to buy cologne. I have a moustache (but its not a crazy moustache that curls up lol)! That is all the facial hair I can grow at this point of my life (I am 19 by the way). I can grow chin hair, but it is patchy and spiky. Also, in high school, people made fun of my voice, because I had a really high, feminine voice. I know determined made a post on voice in the 'general' section of the forums. But personally, do you guys know any techniques that will help lower my voice? Links to Youtube videos and such are gladly welcome.

Things I need to work on:

- keep eating a lot (myfitnesspal is the best site for keeping track of your macros! I am eating 2800 calories + a day now, so I am growing! I just looked at a post I made in September of 2013 called 'fundamentals and rejection,' and there, I mentioned that I was only 129 lbs. Now I am 140 lbs! yay!)
- keep working out (doing stronglifts right now)
- keep growing out hair till my monkey ears are completely covered
- once my hair is grown out, I will go to this gay hairstylist I recently found, and we will decide on the type of cut for me
- somehow fix my voice (this is going to be the hardest thing to do I think, so it isn't really a priority right now, considering how busy I am in general)

Also a question:

Is it possible to still be ugly when you have all your fundamentals handled? I remember Chase saying that what makes a girl hot is the way she dresses, her makeup, how she holds herself etc. But what if you took a girl with a really ugly face (like she had no acne or anything like that, in fact, she has clear skin, but her face just looked ugly), dressed her finely, gave her a nice haircut, gave her a really nice body, a really sexy voice, etc. Wouldn't she still be ugly? Because she has an ugly face? Or does all the fundamentals make it so that your face isn't ugly anymore? A perfect example to explain this concept would be the case where you see a girl, and she looks like a total bombshell from behind, but when you go up to approach her, you see her face, and you're like 'ewww!' I'm asking this because, what if my face is really ugly? And that's why girls never respond to me how I want them to respond. Do you think that when I fix my hair, body, and voice, that girls will immediately find me waayyy more attractive than I am right now? Because to me, these three fundamentals are the only ones I haven't handled.

Why I think I'm ugly:

You know when you catch yourself staring at a pretty girl? Yeah, I'm guilty of that all the time. But, I don't ever catch any girls staring at me
You know when a random girl smiles at you, and you know that its not just a 'friendly' smile. Well, that never happens to me, unless I smile first, and even then, it seems to be only a 'friendly' smile that is reciprocated.
You know when you see a girl, and she doesn't look pretty or special or anything, so you just sort of glance at her and go back to what you were doing. Yeah, well that happens to me aaaallll the time! They look at me for half a second, then go back to what they are doing. Sometimes, people won't even notice me! Like I'm a ghost! They know I'm there, my presence is felt, and they can probably see me out from their peripheral vision, but they just plainly stare past me! Yes... past me!
Of course I could just put on a fedora, a fancy necklace, and some bracelets. But that wouldn't make me sexier, it would just make me stand out more. Which is a start I guess...so maybe I should go grab a fedora or something lol. But imagine an ugly girl wearing lots of bracelets and bright colours. Yes, she stands out more than most people, but that doesn't necessarily make her prettier!

My hypothesis:

Okay, my hypothesis is that the people on this forum that are really good with women, will be jacked and muscular. Please tell me if I am right or wrong. Also, if you are proud of your body, tell me how long you've been working out for, and what your nutrition is like. Please tell me everything about how you made yourself into the man you are today (in the physical aspect). For example, how did you find the perfect haircut for your hair (actually there's an article on fashionbeans called 'finding the right hair style for your face shape'), how did you find the perfect facial hair for your face (there's an article on askmen that answers this), and etcetera. Please be detailed when you answer the question: what do you guys look like? Enter your weight and height and all that, just like I did. Sorry if this is too personal, you obviously don't have to tell me if you don't want to. I just want to see if my hypothesis is correct lol. Are any skinny guys good with women? Lol (probably the same as asking a fat chick how often she gets laid)!

 

[Thedoctor]

Dern,

First off, the vast majority of the world isn't ugly. I'm not just saying this as some sort of B.S. motivational thing, it's true! The vast majority of people (men and women) can look quite attractive if they handle their fundamentals.

What makes a person ugly is this:

-A very non-symmetrical face
-Bad teeth
-Being way too fat or way too skinny

Two of these things can be corrected fully, and quite honestly, the non-symmetrical face can probably be improved in certain ways too.

Can natural good looks help though? Yes, Absolutely! But, can you improve your fundamentals to a point where you're perceived as more attractive than the natural good looking guy? Yes, Absolutely!

Your problem really seems to be one of self-esteem. Thinking you're ugly tells me that you probably lack a lot of confidence in yourself and girls will pick up on this.

Here's my advice on how to assess your fundamentals: Ask girls you know what they think you can improve upon. Not everyone naturally has good taste and maybe you need to make changes in certain areas. If you don't have any girls to ask, then this could potentially be a great way to open girls. Here's an example: "Hey, give me your opinion, I'm thinking of shaving the moustache. Do you think it makes me look distinguished or does it just look like a dirty molestache?" Ask enough girls and you'll start to get some feedback on what needs to change.

Congrats on your weight gain by the way. Having more muscle will help a lot if you're a smaller guy.

And to answer your question, I'm 5'8" and about 160 lbs. I doubt most guys who are successful on here are all that jacked. The most important thing is to be comfortable with yourself. We all have things we wish we could change about ourselves. Here's one of mine: I have ridiculously small hands. Most girls actually have bigger hands than me. Most don't notice right away cause I don't make a huge fuss about it. But every now and then a girl says: "oh my god, your hands are so small." to which I reply "yup, I have small feet too" followed by a cocky smile and a wink.

-John

 

[PinotNoir]

Thedoctor, that's pretty insightful. When I think about it, most people do have the potential to look good. It's very rare to see someone and think, "They could never look attractive," unless you just don't have a good imagination!

To Dern,

But I can tell from girl's body language that they just aren't into me, so what's the point in persisting?

And even when I do persist, I'll find that girls keep on walking, saying that they're busy, blah blah blah.

I can't tell you how many times I have thought this (and still do!) and have been wrong. Base things on results. Ask her out anyway. If she says "no," then she doesn't like you (or hasn't been convinced by your charm yet ). If she says "yes," then she does. Instead, you may just not understand body language yet. It could be a nervous reaction, and later, they may be thinking, "God, why did I just walk away?"

And I don't think it has anything to do with my opening, because I've been approaching seriously since July of 2013.

There are advanced guys here that still work on their approach! Pre-opening, opening, post-opening, direct, indirect-direct, more compliance, less compliance, etc.

But personally, do you guys know any techniques that will help lower my voice?

I posted some youtube videos in this thread: https://boards.girlschase.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4096

Do a growl. I know it sounds dumb, but just try it. Do a growl of a lion, a low growl. Now, try to speak like you think a lion would speak. When you're listening to music, sing along in a low baritone/bass voice. I find the best way to train voice is on strangers! With friends, we're used to talking in a certain "expected" tone. Before you go to a store, practice your voice in the car/commute. Then when you approach the cashier or store clerk, try to speak low. If anyone speaks low around you, listen.

At first, it will be too low and fake sounding. But as you keep doing this, it slowly blends between low and high to sound like a normal, deep voice.

You know when you see a girl, and she doesn't look pretty or special or anything, so you just sort of glance at her and go back to what you were doing. Yeah, well that happens to me aaaallll the time!

I have good news; that is usually a girl checking you out I suspect that at least 50% of those women were interested in you, probably more.

Okay, my hypothesis is that the people on this forum that are really good with women, will be jacked and muscular.

I'm pretty thin. I suspect Estate is as well, and he does great.

I don't do great, but that's due to my own fault of lack of practice. Very recently (beginning of this week), I've started going out again and flirting with women. I was in a relationship with a girl that I met last year again.... long story. In a nutshell, we met last year, broke up, and then got back together, and then broke up recently (I decided to pretty much next her based on the circumstances). I was a bit sad for a few weeks, and now I'm slowly getting back out in the wild. I flirted with a few women at a bookstore this week.

Anyway, enough about me.... the reason I bring this up:

When I met that girl, you know what she said? I asked her what type of guys she likes. She said guys with muscular chests, and she said that I was too skinny. She said that all of her past boyfriends (only 3) were all muscular!

What did I do? Did I curl up in a ball?

No, after being friends with her for 2 weeks (which is too slow/long), I decided that I liked her and asked her out. I needed to find out if she felt the same way. I wanted to date her, so I asked it. I grabbed my balls and accepted fate. And what did she say? She said "yes" of course. No "Umm, let me think about it." No "Well.... you're a great guy, but..." No, it was just "yes" and we dated and began a relationship after a few more weeks.

Yes, muscles are sexy, and there are a lot of women that find muscles sexy. But, you can not let society and outside people influence your decisions in life! If you find a women attractive, you fucking ask her out like a man. If you're confident and sexy, she's going to want to at least try a "date," even if she doesn't think you're that great looking. Dates are dates; they're not commitments. In fact, if a girl starts saying "maybe" or "not sure," tell her that. "It's not a marriage! Let's just go out and have fun, enjoy life, breathe it in and soak it up! What else are you doing this week?" Guys and girls all feel lonely, and it's nice to have companionship. Then when you're on the date, you can pull out all of the charm and tools and conversational lessons that you have learned here and woo her into your arms, no problem. If you're confident, women will sometimes accept dates just out of curiosity!

I can tell you right now.... I can go to my facebook page and just point wildly at my friend's list, and I'll have a 30% chance of landing on an ugly guy with a hot girl. I'd post the pictures here, but that would be disrespectful.

It's great that you're eating and hitting the gym. Don't stop! But, don't let that cloud your judgment.

 

[Thedoctor]

This post actually made me think of this video I was shown recently. You don't have to watch the whole video to get the point. If you fast forward to about 4:28, you'll see her dressed as a bit more tom-boy, then afterwards with make-up and a bikini. It does a good job of illustrating what fundamentals can do to drastically change the appearance of an individual:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktfmN5ZroGE

Check it out.
-John

 

[Amadeaus]

Dern,

Congrats on bulking up! For the fitness aspect of your life, I would recommend checking out Bigger Leaner Stronger. I use the full workout plan found in there and I love it. It also breaks down every gram you should be eating in the diet section. I think you may need to check out the diet part b/c I am not sure 2800 calories a day is on the mark for a 140lb dude in the bulking phase. You don't want too much unnecessary fat to cut later!

If you have a little anxiety about being a scrawny dude in the gym, try ditching the mp3 player and cutting off the sleeves of your workout shirts. The mp3 player can take away from focusing on your workout, plus the gym plays music anyway.

 

[Grand Pooba]

Neil Strauss, before and after.

He can do it; so can you!

It's about using what you have and finding the look that makes you sexy.