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What does your escalation process look like?

sneaky_charm

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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(I posted this same question with a possibly inappropriate title, and it didn't receive any reply. So I'm posting it again in a different category.)

I don't know what state of mind I was in, but I seriously did one of the dumbest things today.

So, I went out with this girl, and we shared good laughs, funny stories, sexual topics etc. That was inside a restaurant.

After a while we went out and took a walk by the side of a busy road full of cars.

All of a sudden, I said 'Stop', and put my hand behind her head. My intention was to manhandle kiss her. She didn't kiss me back. Got almost totally silent after that, even though she was talking all the time before. And to top it off, when it was time to part ways, told me "Please don't contact me again!" Ouch!

MY MISTAKE? I tried to escalate all of a sudden after NOT TOUCHING HER AT ALL THE WHOLE EVENING!

So:

1. I did not focus on creating sexual tension with eye contact
2. I did not even take her hand when first meeting
3. I did not touch her anywhere at all for about 45 minutes
4. I did not take her to an isolated place before beginning to escalate
5. I did not start with mild touching before wanting to kiss

So obviously, when I tried to kiss her, she got all weird. Funny thing is, now I know all the things that went wrong. Don't know why I totally forgot that there was a process to follow.

That got me wondering what a successful escalation process looks like.

So, for times when you'd rather fuck her outside than take her home, what is your step-by-step escalation process?
 

Drck

Cro-Magnon Man
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Don't know what you are asking for since you already seem to know the answer.

It is about ESCALATION, right? You start at low point and escalate to high point rather gradually, meaning you don't jump from 0 to 100 in 1 second. In reality, the ride is hardly so smooth. The reality is that you might get from 0 to 40, then back to 30. Then from 30 to 60, and back to 50. From 50 to 80, back to 65, and finally from 65 to 90, and hopefully to 100. That is escalation, gradually moving forward. Push and pull. Push and wait for her response. Push more, wait. Push again, wait, possibly back up a little, then push forward again.

You are in a restaurant, sitting comfortably, good atmosphere. You laugh, share stories, talk sex, whatever, it is a good talk but it is ONLY A TALK. Ok, you got from 0 to 40 in what, 45 minutes? Not bad, good acceleration, she feels comfortable, opens up, talking sex. Then you go out on a busy street, and the road is full of cars. Her comfort disappears, her mood changes, in her mind it was just a nice talk. You slow down from 40 to 25 in 1 minute. The talk is just not so interesting on the street. Well, there is not much to do, you had to slow down anyway, that is normal.

All of the sudden, you say "Stop" and put your hand behind her head. You TOUCH for the first time, attempting to escalate from 25 to 65 in 1 second. But that is not enough, you also want to kiss at the same time, so you want to go from 25 to 75 in 0.5 second. She just freezes because she is not ready to kiss you in the middle of busy road full of cars. It is too fast. She hits the brakes, and you get from 25 to 3 in one second. Almost hit the windshield with your head. But the good thing is that you are wearing seat-belt.

Kiss? Touch her neck from behind while her mood is disrupted by busy street full of cars? No way. She gets totally silent instead. Green light changed into red light. Brakes are still on, tire tracks, smoking tires. Go from 3 to 0 in another 1 second.

There is just no way forward. She can't go from 25 to 75, and then jump again to 100. She shift into a quick reverse instead - Please, do not contact me ever again!

There was no escalation at all. There was no slow down, and no gradual move forward. You just accelerated, went comfortable from 0 to 40 and then you hit the brakes. You wanted to hit the pedal again, but in stead she shifted into reverse.
 

sneaky_charm

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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It is about ESCALATION, right? You start at low point and escalate to high point rather gradually, meaning you don't jump from 0 to 100 in 1 second. In reality, the ride is hardly so smooth. The reality is that you might get from 0 to 40, then back to 30. Then from 30 to 60, and back to 50. From 50 to 80, back to 65, and finally from 65 to 90, and hopefully to 100. That is escalation, gradually moving forward. Push and pull. Push and wait for her response. Push more, wait. Push again, wait, possibly back up a little, then push forward again.

You are in a restaurant, sitting comfortably, good atmosphere. You laugh, share stories, talk sex, whatever, it is a good talk but it is ONLY A TALK. Ok, you got from 0 to 40 in what, 45 minutes? Not bad, good acceleration, she feels comfortable, opens up, talking sex. Then you go out on a busy street, and the road is full of cars. Her comfort disappears, her mood changes, in her mind it was just a nice talk. You slow down from 40 to 25 in 1 minute. The talk is just not so interesting on the street. Well, there is not much to do, you had to slow down anyway, that is normal.

All of the sudden, you say "Stop" and put your hand behind her head. You TOUCH for the first time, attempting to escalate from 25 to 65 in 1 second. But that is not enough, you also want to kiss at the same time, so you want to go from 25 to 75 in 0.5 second. She just freezes because she is not ready to kiss you in the middle of busy road full of cars. It is too fast. She hits the brakes, and you get from 25 to 3 in one second. Almost hit the windshield with your head. But the good thing is that you are wearing seat-belt.

Kiss? Touch her neck from behind while her mood is disrupted by busy street full of cars? No way. She gets totally silent instead. Green light changed into red light. Brakes are still on, tire tracks, smoking tires. Go from 3 to 0 in another 1 second.

There is just no way forward. She can't go from 25 to 75, and then jump again to 100. She shift into a quick reverse instead - Please, do not contact me ever again!

There was no escalation at all. There was no slow down, and no gradual move forward. You just accelerated, went comfortable from 0 to 40 and then you hit the brakes. You wanted to hit the pedal again, but in stead she shifted into reverse.

That was an excellent reply, made me understand things clearly. Okay, so I guess I didn't realize that kiss was 75. I thought it was no big deal. The numbers were really helpful, made the situation clear as a day.

Don't know what you are asking for since you already seem to know the answer.

What I'm asking here, I guess, is what points should I cross before kissing? Should I successfully fondle breasts, or kiss the neck, or touch her hips? Which actions are considered at the higher levels of the hierarchy, and which are considered to be at the below levels?

Also, what does your push-pull look like? Do you first try to rub her thighs, and then touch hips, and then do something else? What is your way of determining where you are at in terms of physical escalation?

I don't know what kind of touches are considered as less intense and which are more.

Chase wrote:

"Being from a place of inexperience, while we were making out (after warming her up with the spontaneous kiss and realizing that she had non-verbally agreed to more), I began to caress her butt. Whenever I caressed her butt, she removed my hand promptly and said a clear "no." If I had been more experienced, I think I could have persisted to sex if I had caressed her body in a more natural, progressive way (i.e., cheeks=>shoulders=>arms=>outer thighs=>inner thighs), but I was coming from a place of inexperience."

in the forum post viewtopic.php?t=5193.

My situation is the same. I don't know what touch is to be regarded as 1, what 20 or what 65!
 

Drck

Cro-Magnon Man
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It would be nice to have a formula - just plug in the numbers, plug in what to say and when to touch, plug in any girl and at the end the guy would end up in bed with that girl...

But such formula doesn't exist, it is only a dream. Everything is just relative, more fluent. Like cars, some girls are faster and easier, another ones will give you hard time no matter what you do, and all can with ease hit the brakes when they feel like to. For one girl, kiss can be 80, for another just 25...

Getting physical is in my opinion the best acceleration you can do. Forget all the seductive looks and forget all the sexual tension, even the other seduction stuff. Well, I mean don't forget it, just push it into the background of your mind and focus more on getting physical. Getting physical will take care of it itself.

A good way to see it is, once a guy is touching a girl and she is comfortable enough with it and touching back, most of the seduction is done because you are already getting intimate. You can have all the seductive looks you want, you can have the best seductive talks, walks and sexy smiles you want, but if you don't get intimate - all of it is useless anyway. Getting physical simply jumps over most of the seduction stuff, it is like a shortcut because it is more intimate. And once you and her are comfortable enough physically, the sex is just a natural outcome.

But, of course, you cannot just start touching a girl without talking to her. You talk to her first, and if you notice, if she is comfortable enough and she likes you, she will touch start touching you relatively quickly. Maybe just on your hand or shoulder, sometimes she just grabs your forearm firmly, all is good enough. Sometimes you may be surprised, she may even lay against you with all of her body, including her tits, only after a short time talking to her. That is a good sign, she is more open. At the same time, if she is not touching you, or you are touching you but she is not touching bad, it is not so good.

Here is where fundamentals are important. You simply learn to have a good body language, good posture, good attitude, you are relaxed and in positive mood. Learn these things, they are not natural to most guys. Learn to feel great about yourself, and since she can read your body language very well, she will feel it right away. Basically, she is just mirroring you, your mood and feelings, and if you feel good about yourself she will also feel good. Why wouldn't she like guy like that? She likes guys who make her feel great, and she will start touching you. And if you start touching back in escalating matter, congratulations - you have just bypassed 90% of the seduction stuff. Isn't that a miracle? It is a fucking miracle, simple and fast, no seduction skills needed. Who cares what you say, who cares how sexy you look, who cares how deep you are connected on emotional level - you have the relaxed attitude, you are already touching - and she is touching back...

So, try not to look at it "where do I touch exactly, how and when". The touching should kind of match your attitude. Get the attitude first - be relaxed, more positive, kind of distant. Let her talk more, she should talk more than you. She should be more excited than you. If she is excited 50%, you should be excited 40%. If she is excited 70%, you can be excited 60%. "Vibe" with her, but make sure your vibe is lesser than hers.

Once she starts feeling some vibes or excitement, she will start touching you. Touch back, try to match her touch. If she touches you only lightly, touch lightly. If she grabs your arm firmly, you can be more firm. Try forearm or shoulder first, then try to put your arm on her lower back, just slowly and gently, see how she reacts. If she likes it she will come closer to you. If not, she will move away.

In guy's mind, he starts with 0 and goes to 100 gradually with no stopping. It is just straight forward move. That is an ideal seduction, which of course doesn't happen often - unless she is really drunk or desperate - but it happens too. From sitting in a restaurant directly to the bed. Most of the time it doesn't work that way. She will stop you, move back, and if you are too fast she will push you away. She knows that if the guy doesn't have a confidence, he will not try to push again, he will get discouraged. But confident guy starts again. If he went from 0 to 50 and she stopped him, he will now go back and starts at 30, and push it till 60. He gets stopped again, so he starts back in 40 and pushes till 70, when he gets stopped again.

As a confident guy, you always want to reach 100. That is when your dick is inside her and you are pounding her.
As a confident guy, you always want to reach 100 no matter what, knowing that you will be stopped and pushed away, but that won't stop you.
As a confident guy, you will always push for 100, no matter what. She will have only two choices: (1) Either push you away and totally reject you, or (2) sleep with you. You don't give her more than those two choices, there is no friendship, there is no stopping at 70 or 90. You'll notice that many girls will put quite an effort to stop you before you reach 100 but they won't want you to leave. They will want you to push you in friend zone, into an orbital. They will work hard to stop you at 70-80 and become a good orbital. Well, don't stop there.
As a confident guy, you know that if you go too fast she will reject you, and if you go too slow she will also reject you. So you just have to find the right speed that she is ready for, meaning you always push forward and you always observe her reactions, to make sure that you are not too slow nor too fast, and to make sure you are not in the orbital...

Happy driving :)
 

sneaky_charm

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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It would be nice to have a formula - just plug in the numbers, plug in what to say and when to touch, plug in any girl and at the end the guy would end up in bed with that girl...

...and if you go too slow she will also reject you. So you just have to find the right speed that she is ready for, meaning you always push forward and you always observe her reactions, to make sure that you are not too slow nor too fast, and to make sure you are not in the orbital...

Happy driving :)

Wow! Thank you so much for crafting a response so long and detailed. I see what you mean! Yes I'll drive, and I'll drive better than ever with your help! :)

Just one last question, which kind of touches are less intimate and which are more intimate in the mind of girls? I have not much idea regarding that!

If you had to rank each of the following touches in terms of increasing intimacy, in what order will you rank them:

1. Taking her hand to hold or shake it
2. Examining her watch while gently touching her wrist with both hands
3. Touching her upper arm to make a point
4. Placing your hand in her lower back
5. Placing your hand in her upper back
6. Placing the hands on her hips
7. Rubbing her outer thighs
8. Rubbing her inner thighs
9. Touching her feet with your feet when sitting closely
10. Gently caressing her neck with hands
11. Fondling her breasts
12. Kissing her
13. Hugging her
14. Hugging her from behind with the whole body pressing against her

I know the question is kind of strange and dumb, but it'll really help if you provide a rough order. You can answer with one sentence, in the format 1 < 7 < 8.

The answer will help me gradually increase the intimacy of my touching.
 

sneaky_charm

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Messages
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Can anyone please answer this:

which kind of touches are less intimate and which are more intimate in the mind of girls? I have not much idea regarding that!

If you had to rank each of the following touches in terms of increasing intimacy, in what order will you rank them:

1. Taking her hand to hold or shake it
2. Examining her watch while gently touching her wrist with both hands
3. Touching her upper arm to make a point
4. Placing your hand in her lower back
5. Placing your hand in her upper back
6. Placing the hands on her hips
7. Rubbing her outer thighs
8. Rubbing her inner thighs
9. Touching her feet with your feet when sitting closely
10. Gently caressing her neck with hands
11. Fondling her breasts
12. Kissing her
13. Hugging her
14. Hugging her from behind with the whole body pressing against her

Thanks in advance!
 

Drck

Cro-Magnon Man
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Again, it is all relative, even touching. You always have to be ready to go to 100 otherwise you'll mess up a lot, and at the same time you should expect her to hit brakes at any time.

For example, you meet one girl and go for Date #1. You are ready to go to 100 but she puts brakes on at 40, you get stuck. You might think that at Date #2 she will go to 60, so get yourself ready for 70. But what you don't know is that she might be ready for 100 at Date #2. She just wasn't ready the first time, she didn't expect such a quick advances, but now she changed her mind and got herself ready for Date #2. If you are not ready for 100 at Date #2 you screwed yourself up and you stopped at 70. She may perceive you as hesitant guy and she will dump you. No Date #3 for you.

You meet another girl. You think she may not be ready the first date for 100, so you are thinking you will push it till 70. She gives you resistance so you gave up at 70. But she was ready for 100, all you had to do is to push more. Then you go for second date and you think that you might push it till 100 because you almost had her last time, and you are thinking she is ready. But now she is ready only for 30, she hits the brakes at 30 and you are screwed again. She will dump you because you are advancing too fast.


As far as touching, here is some example. First, you got to have great fundamentals. Great Fundamentals generate great attraction. You have a good posture, you are relaxed, you are positive, you are "open", you are confortable and confident. This is important, because she scans you and she will mirror your attitude. She can simply feel those things. She will feel the same way like you do, which is good. If you feel good, she feels good, and she perceives you as being attractive - she comes closer to you, approach you.

Note that I am not talking about you going after her and requesting a phone number from her, this is the opposite when she makes an effort to get closer to you. I'm not saying that approaching girls is wrong, it is just more effort, whereas when she approaches you first you already know that she likes you and she is investing into you. You simply eliminate a lot of headache and rejection, but at the same token you may lose some girls who are shy to approach a guy.

You go for a date, she is excited to meet a new guy, you feel good about yourself - she mirrors you and she feels good about herself. You don't talk about yourself, you talk about her. You don't say nothing about yourself, only the minimum possible.

You talk about her. She starts talking about herself, things she likes, things she does and so on. You like what she talks about, why wouldn't you like it? The things she likes comes with her pussy. You like pussy. So you are simply interested about what she does, you ask her natural questions so she talks about it more. You like some topics more, so you talk more about those topics. You like other topics less, so you don't talk much about them, you switch the subject. There you go, this is your deep diving, simple and easy, no headaches.

There are of course different boring topics, such as boring questions about you. But you don't want to be boring so you always and gently reflect those questions to something else. For example, she ask you if you like to travel. "Yes I like to travel, and I know this guy who's been with me to Paris, and he met a girl there, he hooked up with her the first day and ... blah blah.... Do you like to travel?" And now she's got to talk about herself again.

Congratulations, you've just avoided first rejection by not talking about yourself, you are still this mysterious guy who she knows nothing about. Now she's got to work harder to find out who you are, she's got to invest more into you. That is challenging for her, she has to find out who you are because you are not boring like the other guys she knows! Not only that, now she also knows that you have a friend who can hook up with a girl fast. Fast hookup, exciting! And she knows you've been to Paris. How romantic!

So, the reason why I'm not just talking about touching here is because the underlying emotions/vibes are also important. She needs to feel good, she needs to feel some excitement. She needs to know that you are interested in her, and if she has to talk a lot about herself it makes her feel good.

With the underlying emotions/vibes things are easier because you don't have to think much and you don't have to look for clever ways to get her to bed. She simply feels good and she wants to feel even better. Again, this should be your fundamentals.

Now back to the touching. Say you are walking with her through the town, and she is brushing against you here and there. Good, that is a first physical contact. You then stop on the bridge, and looking into the water, your arms are supported on the railing. She is close, ideally she invades your space (Why? Because she feels good!), and she kinda leans against you, touches with her body side of your left arm. Good.

She is talking, so now you can touch her jewelry, talk about it. She likes it, touching continues, you can put your right hand on her left forearm. If she doesn't pull away (and again, if she feels good she will not), you can continue touching. Say you can put your left palm on her lower back gently, and move your arm around, slightly up and down. Does she like it? Good! She still feel good.

Then grab her left forearm more firmly (you are pushing forward). Still like it? Great, well, be more firm with your left palm on her lower back and at the same time turn your head closer to her right cheek, as if you are attempting to kiss her. Your lips are perhaps 1 inch from her cheek. Should you kiss or not? Your choice, maybe you can just say something about how her hair smells good. If she is still like it (smiles, blushes), you can push further. How about turn more towards her side and gently touch her thigh with your dick?

Oh! That is too much for her, now she pulls away, her brakes are on. I know you want to fuck her right there because you are so fucking impatient and your dick is tingling, but hold your horses for now. She is not ready yet. She just went from 60 to 40. No big deal, that was expected. Cool off, and lets go to the park then! You are pulling back, you are slowing down, but make sure she is still feeling good, let her talk about whatever she wants to talk. Don't get discouraged, don't get upset otherwise she will dump you. Go back to fundamentals - you feel great, you are relaxed, nothing happened, you are just having fun.

Sit on the bench. She is still vibing, good, so put your left arm around her shoulders. Some talk. Looking in her face again from close distance. Quick kiss? She just giggles. Right palm on her thigh gently, closer to the knee. But she pushes away. Ok, hold her forearm then. Just for a couple of seconds, and then again on her thigh. Now she lets you to keep your hand on her knee. Good. Give her a quick kiss then, squeeze her shoulder with the other hand. Say something and move your hand up her thigh, closer to her pussy. She just puts her hand on yours so you can't go further. Who cares? You are almost touching her pussy through the clothes.

Ok, you are stuck again. Maybe something totally spontaneous, totally stupid would help at this moment. Hey, there is a lake, why don't we just get naked and jump into it? She just laughs because it is stupid. You can't get naked in front of others and go swimming in the lake silly, you just don't do that! But now you give her a good kiss, and she is kissing back. Ok, now you can touch her neck if you insist.

Kissing a while? Touch her stomach, gently, move up and down. Try to touch her tits. She won't let you? Alright, lets touch her pussy then. She just pushes you away. Awkward moment, it is quiet for a moment. Take a breath, let her talk about something, pull back a little. Make sure she is relaxed.

Hey, how about more stupid things? Doesn't know any? No big deal, just stick your tongue in her ear, watch her to burst out laughing. Stomach again, this time your hand is under her shirt. She pushes your hand away, just to find out that now you are touching her wet pussy.

Oh, this fucking guy! He is just relentless, nothing will stop him! Let's walk some other place, it is just too much!

So you are walking, just talking casual things. You are not discouraged and you remain in good mood because nothing happened. You are touching her back again, you stop and you give her a good hug and a good kiss.

This fucking guy doesn't really want to stop! But now she is getting really nervous.

She is got to make quite a decision now, the most difficult moment for her came. She only wishes he doesn't talk about getting into his place, so far she likes everything a lot, he is exciting guy, but she is not ready for sex.

But he does ask her to go to his place. Her excitement/nervousness just shoots through the roof, and she is ready to walk away. Why can't this guy just stop here? Wasn't everything great so far? Why does he need more?

I have to go home, she says, it is getting really late. Of course, you say, let me walk you. Good, she is finally relieved. She checks her senses again, she feels that you are still in positive mood, totally relaxed, acting as if nothing happen. She calms down, gets less nervous. You are now holding her hand, she is getting relaxed too. But wait a minute, where is he going? She lives the other direction. He is headed to his place!

But she can't really think much because you are hugging her again and gave her a good kiss while rubbing your thigh against her pussy. She doesn't know what to do, she has no idea what she should do. Why not follow then, he just leads so strongly, he doesn't hesitate one second, he is so calm and relaxed, he just knows exactly what he wants. He wants her, and her pussy is already wet. After all, all this touching just feels so good...
 

Drck

Cro-Magnon Man
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So it is not really: touch 1,2,3,4,5,6,7... It is more dynamic. Touch less sensitive area first. Touch lightly first, then more firmly, then back to light again. Touch her jewelry and her upper back, those are just more friendly touches. Then touch more intimate areas. Her lower back, inner side of her forearm. Touch her knee or outer side of her thigh, then her stomach. Hug her shoulders with one hand, and touch her pussy with another. Touch her back, then her inner thigh, tits or pussy. Put your hand under her shirt, give her a kiss, try to unzip her pants or move your hand under her skirt. This way you are mixing it: 1,5,3,2,7,4,5,7,3....

Note that you are quite invading her space, you are invading her body, you are much more physically leading/dominant, and she is rather on defense. You always push forward, then you step back, then repeat, and each time you are pushing more forward. You should always check her mood/emotions though, if she is getting too defensive you are going too fast. Or, if you want more romantic approach, you should wait till she touches you more back, take it slower.

Before she goes for a first date, she may not have a clue who you are. She may not want to really date anyone yet, she just go out to have fun and see what the guy is about. Simply, her mind-set is not ready to have a sex and you won't change it no matter what. She may pre-set her brakes say to 70, and no matter what you do she won't let you go over. If you push it too far she will reject you and you won't get more dates. But if she goes on Date #2, it might change, now she knows exactly what you want. She may pre-set her brakes to 80 but she is also more open to 100.
 

Mr.Rob

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Also dude how you handle her rejecting your kiss is extremely big.

If you get all butt hurt or make a big deal out of it (think that because she rejected your kiss it's game over) she's going to think your a chump and move on.

I play it off as if it were a joke these days because I know it's just a matter of time until she submits and kisses.

Also I bet you were super stuck in your head moments leading up to the kiss as well as right when you kissed her. She feels what you feel so if you're feeling all anxious and weird and then you kiss her and feel more anxious and weird shes feeling the same way and of course she's not going to want to feel more of that. Hence the "please don't contact me again".

I'm planning on writing up my personal "Hard Rules for Escalation" soon, though different from what you're getting at perhaps it'll have something that will resonate.

Lastly as far as pre-kiss goes I definitely work my way up by playing with the girl and getting her comfortable with my touch. I always find excuses to role play and get near her face, take her hands, pick her up, hold her and I do it in a way that's fun/funny so it disarms her. Then when she's used to me touching her and we get back to a place to escalate I just do the same thing and then go further and kiss her.

Also when you touch her don't be static, be moving around with your touch (obviously in a smooth way).

My personal tips I use.
 

sneaky_charm

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Drck said:
A good way to see it is, once a guy is touching a girl and she is comfortable enough with it and touching back, most of the seduction is done because you are already getting intimate. You can have all the seductive looks you want, you can have the best seductive talks, walks and sexy smiles you want, but if you don't get intimate - all of it is useless anyway. Getting physical simply jumps over most of the seduction stuff, it is like a shortcut because it is more intimate. And once you and her are comfortable enough physically, the sex is just a natural outcome.

Okay got it, so I'll have to touch and see where it goes. So if I understand correctly, for one girl, one kind of touch may be more intimate, and for another the same may not be very intimate.

Your posts were really helpful, I learned the following things and more:

1. Verbal game and touch are two complete different things. Even if you've hit 100 in verbal game, but never touched a girl, you will still have to start from 0 when it comes to touching. Treating the two aspects completely separately is the way to go.

2. A girl's mood fluctuates very rapidly. She may have felt ecstatic 10 seconds ago, but now may be totally closed off.

3. There is no right type of touching, and testing what touch works and what does not is the only sure way to move forward.

Mr. Rob said:
Also dude how you handle her rejecting your kiss is extremely big.

If you get all butt hurt or make a big deal out of it (think that because she rejected your kiss it's game over) she's going to think your a chump and move on.

Unfortunately, I didn't even want to talk about it. But this girl didn't say a word when I brought up other topics. Total silent mode. She uttered many sentences like "Why did you do that?", "I don't even know you that well.", "So you do that with different girls all the time.", "What were you thinking when you tried to kiss me?" and THE WORST, "Do you think I'm that cheap. You tried to kiss me on the middle of a road. What were you thinking!"

Also I bet you were super stuck in your head moments leading up to the kiss as well as right when you kissed her. She feels what you feel so if you're feeling all anxious and weird and then you kiss her and feel more anxious and weird shes feeling the same way and of course she's not going to want to feel more of that. Hence the "please don't contact me again".

Perhaps what you say is true. But as far as I remember, I didn't feel even the slightest bit of emotion, not when she rejected my kiss, not when she was silent, and not when she asked me to not contact her. I just wasn't attached to her at all emotionally. She was no big deal. I talked exactly the way I was talking before, joking and with a relaxing tone. But this girl totally closed off.

My guess is that she was attracted to me, and hence couldn't digest the fact that I tried to kiss her like that. I think my attempt made her feel like I considered her worthless, and easy.

Maybe she even wanted a serious relationship, cause I heard comments like "I like boys who have their shoes very clean", "You are the one who doesn't have time." blah blah!

I think I haven't explained the situation at all, so I'm making you guys confused. Actually, I met this girl about a month ago. After that, met up with her again, but she brought a friend. Good talk, nothing happened, only handshake.

This time, I asked her to come alone. She did. And since I had made plans a few days ago, and cancelled that later, this time she was the one who called to confirm the date.

Anyway, I think my worst mistake was calling her and talking to her for half hour, or even an hour, a few times. Even though I had not much interest in her. From now on, I'll not call girls to talk if I haven't at least made out with her.
 
a good date brings a smile to your lips... and hers

Drck

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Messages
1,488
It can get difficult and quite frustrating, many times you do your best and nothing happens anyway. You think you finally got her, just to ind out that she was only flaking... It is what it is.

There are probably easy ways to get a girl in the bed, such as being an asshole, but it all depends on your (any guy) personality. If you are an asshole, you don't really care about that girl or you care about her only temporally. You do what you want to do and you push for sex. You don't really care if she rejects you. This is (overall) attractive to the girl, with little bit of tweaking you can get laid quite frequently and have lots of success with girls.

But if you want to be a good seducer, there is lots of work to do, you have to learn a lot and you have to improve yourself a lot. You have to understand the girl and you have to understand yourself. For example, there is a difference in touching her hand depending on her current mindset, mood. If she is more in 'friendly' mood, she perceives touching her hand as just friendly. You can even touch her tits as 'a friend', she'll let you. She may like it but she may not sleep with you because in her mind you are - well, just a friend...

When she is in different mood - say she feels more romantic and feels more loving vibes - the same touches will have different result. She will get closer to you emotionally, she will be more open to you and to your advances. But again, this depends on your mood first, so first you will have to change your attitude, your approach, and your overall mood. You cannot be mentally down, anxious and impatient, and at the same time expect her to feel romantic vibes...

So the first thing is to work on fundamentals, your mindset towards girls. You want to feel good in your skin, so you have to learn to relax a lot, meditate, feel peace while around girls. This will give you the positive/loving vibes. You will feel comfortable - and she will feel comfortable. You also have to learn independence from that girl. Guys get easily attached to good looking girl who shows an interest in them. This is girl's biggest weapon, she knows she can show some excitement around a guy, stroke his ego a bit, make him feel really good - and he will fall in love with her on the spot.

Once a guy is in love his head is spinning, he stops thinking clearly, he starts doing things he would never do, he starts chasing her, constantly calling, bothering her, bumping into her.... But that is annoying to her, especially the chasing. Now she's got to run and hide from him, which is even more frustrating for that guy. Most of the time he doesn't even understand because he thinks that she feels the same way. Well, she is not....

To fix that some maturity is needed, disattachment from those feelings of love, disattachment from the desire to be around that girl all the time. A guy should learn to be more cold and unreactive, more independent - and at the same time remain in positive mood and vibes... That is not easy, that takes time... You simply learn to be happy and positive on your own, without being with any girl. No girl can change this attitude of yours. That is BIG, once you can do that most of the 'seduction' is done because you become very attractive and you will draw girls towards you, instead of chasing their numbers...

Yes, girl's mood fluctuates rapidly. That is why your mood should be more stable. Say you go for a date and you are 35% in your positive mood (where 0 is netural and 100 is highest excitement). She'll copy your mood and become excited. She'll go to 60%. You follow, you go to 50%. She gets more excited, say 80%. You go to 70%. But then she drops to 0. Many guys get surpriced, their mood also drops to 0, or even to negative numbers. They get discouraged, become negative. She then reads their mood and she sees that they are emotionally unstable, insecure, too clingy, too dependent on her... Simply too immature. So in her eyes the value of this guy drops. She may remain nice to him but she will eventually dump him...

With more experience, you can manage your mood and emotions better. You don't get too low and you don't get overexcited. Say that she drops to 0. You drop to 30 only, you remain positive, disattached. She pretends that she is not interested, that she dumped you, flirts with another guys in front of you. She stops responding to your calls and messages. She is just really checking out how you will react. Impatient guy will freak out, he will start chasing her, calling and texting even more, he will be nervous and jealous. Well but you remain positive at 30, just shrug your shoulders, smile at her and easily walk away from her as if nothing happened. No hurt feelings, no sorry ass thoughts. Then she shoots to 90, but you go only to 70. Well, she gets excited even more because she found emotionally stable guy, someone who is not dependent on her mood swings. Someone who has good and postive vibes, someone who really likes her, but at the same time he is still disattached, little bit distant, independent... HUGE ATTRACTION, she will come back...

But no matter what, you still have to touch and push for sex... and if you are relentless and touching fast while she feels this huge attraction - what can she do? What choices does she really have? Can she really reject such guy so easily...??? She can't, and if she does she will be thinking about her mistake for many months...
 
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