What is a high value/quality woman in your view?

[Teevster]

@Teevster, your response has given me food for thought. I hadn't quite thought of this topic in the context of anthropology but you are right I suppose it is that.

Well, the back-n-forth you are seeing in this thread ia proof that different men, in different circles, will tend to favor different things.

I knew there would be subjective elements as to what is high value. My question was more geared towards the objective elements in the sense that what I think this website ultimately teaches men is self improvement, work on being the best you can (looks, career, personality, attributes etc) as well as the skill being 'game'. Yes there are subjective elements to that, such as looks (so many discussions on how mens opinions on what is a 10 differs amongst themselves) but there are objective elements that perhaps are attractive in both sexes such as confidence, intelligence? So what would be the equivalent for women (to be the best I can be and in the process I attract the type of guy I want).

So there are some more of less commonly agreed upon traits - such as looking your best. But if you do look at what the site teaches - which is primarily game - can be categorised as communication techniques that:
- Establishes rapport
- Eliciting values (find out what she likes - reel info about her)
- Convey those traits or related traits.
- Calibrate.

And I think the same overarching framework can be used by women.

Beyond communication techniques, one discusses other aspects such as logistics and escalation, as well as frame control. But these are dimensions not related to your question.

The question in my book is not to figure out "objective" attractive traits, but rather find ways to figure out what he - the guy you are talking to, finds attractive, and figure ot how you can convey these traits, in a way that does not display outright neediness or supplication. That's "game" in my book.

But just like with women, there are many attraction triggers in men.

-Teevster

 

[StrayDog]

@Mensa Reject any thoughts thus far?

 

[Mensa Reject]

@Mensa Reject any thoughts thus far?

Asking myself why did I post given where the discussion has gone

On a serious note, being hot was the first thing that I knew was going to come up (that's taken care of tbh).

Modern advice is have interests, hobbies, do the inner work, have your own goals, be kind and have high self esteem. I think those things are universally attractive (in both sexes thinking about it), I was just interested to hear if there was anything else that could be objectively 'worked/developed on' so to speak (aside from female game and feminine qualities/traits).

 

[TomInHo]

On a serious note, being hot was the first thing that I knew was going to come up (that's taken care of tbh).

Modern advice is have interests, hobbies, do the inner work, have your own goals, be kind and have high self esteem. I think those things are universally attractive (in both sexes thinking about it), I was just interested to hear if there was anything else that could be objectively 'worked/developed on' so to speak (aside from female game and feminine qualities/traits).

Sounds about right

Include being able to keep his balls dry and always being in the mood for sex when he wants it and you're the perfect woman

 

[Mensa Reject]

True



But I have also seen men that wifed up women that had NONE of these qualities

A lot of men SAY they want that, but often when then land a woman that's way above in looks of what they usually get a lot of these traits can get thrown out the window

Just my observation but the average man is willing to bend on these things if the woman is his perfect 10

In fact I have a good friend now that is going through this

His woman does not have a low body count. She is not loyal because they had a break and she slept with a few men during that time. She is not teachable and they often get into arguments because she won't "listen"

She doesn't seem to have a very traumatic past though but still

And yet even with all these flaws he is still trying to get her pregnant... Why?

Because she is his perfect 10, and he also told me he valued all those qualities because he watches a lot of redpill content

But when he found a partner hot enough all those qualities he said he wanted were completely thrown in the trash lol

Hi @TomInHo, I'm glad you joined the discussion because reading your posts on other threads I wanted your view on this subject.

Your point here seems to be that the 'average' man would be willing to bend rules for his personal 10. If the guy was not 'average' and say he was an 8/9/10 himself would he be willing to put up with the 'flaws' as much (isn't that the absolute abundance scenario)? In that situation is being 'hot' enough or actually do you need more (and be high value) for a man that is above average?

 

[Mensa Reject]

Would you like me to move the "other discussion" into another thread, in order to ensure your threads gets back onto it original topic?

Let me know. And apologies for the derailing - just happens on forums.

-Teevster

No it's fine (I was joking), it's an interesting read and somewhat related to my question.

 

[StrayDog]

Asking myself why did I post given where the discussion has gone

On a serious note, being hot was the first thing that I knew was going to come up (that's taken care of tbh).

Modern advice is have interests, hobbies, do the inner work, have your own goals, be kind and have high self esteem. I think those things are universally attractive (in both sexes thinking about it), I was just interested to hear if there was anything else that could be objectively 'worked/developed on' so to speak (aside from female game and feminine qualities/traits).

this first response from @Teevster is probably closest you'll get to an objective overview

Post in thread 'What is a high value/quality woman in your view?' https://www.skilledseducer.com/thre...-quality-woman-in-your-view.31014/post-195224

the rest you're gonna start getting the projections and preferences of individual men/social strata

 

[Teevster]

No it's fine (I was joking), it's an interesting read and somewhat related to my question.

I though it best to move the discussion elsewhere (it also aligns with the forum policy). Derailing is not negative per.se. but the derailed conversation should be moved to its own thread. I cleaned up yours (basically partly cleaned my own mess - sorry about that!). I hope all is good now.

Edit: the discussion surrounding body count has been moved to its new thread, which you can find here.

Best,
Teevster

 

[StrayDog]

was just interested to hear if there was anything else that could be objectively 'worked/developed on' so to speak (aside from female game and feminine qualities/traits)

I'd say that's more about appealing to a specific man's personal attraction archetype. the more you fit into his personal idea of an ideal women (aside from those basic qualities you mentioned) the more he's gonna be attracted to you. So figuring out what kind of guy you want to attract and adjusting to that

 

[Teevster]

I'd say that's more about appealing to a specific man's personal attraction archetype. the more you fit into his personal idea of an ideal women (aside from those basic qualities you mentioned) the more he's gonna be attracted to you. So figuring out what kind of guy you want to attract and adjusting to that

+1.

-Teevster

 

[TomInHo]

Hi @TomInHo, I'm glad you joined the discussion because reading your posts on other threads I wanted your view on this subject.

Sure, no problemo

Your point here seems to be that the 'average' man would be willing to bend rules for his personal 10. If the guy was not 'average' and say he was an 8/9/10 himself would he be willing to put up with the 'flaws' as much (isn't that the absolute abundance scenario)?

Really depends on man in question

Because you could meet a guy that is a 9 that's not even thinking about settling down at all. And even if you were perfect on paper he won't settle down

Then you could meet another man this is a 9 and he's ready to settle down and doesn't care about your "flaws" at all

Not all men that are 8 and above have the same exact criteria for a mate, but being very physically attractive will increase your chances of getting a man to want to lock you down fast

Regardless of a man's rating men will still behave like men

I mean think about it. . . . Johnny Depp still married Amber Heard despite her obvious flaws

And like I said earlier as a woman being Hot and knowing how to suck a mean dick can get you very far and make some men want to lock you down

But if you want that relationship to be HEALTHY in the long term you may need some other qualities

 

[PaulieFlyn10]

True



But I have also seen men that wifed up women that had NONE of these qualities

A lot of men SAY they want that, but often when then land a woman that's way above in looks of what they usually get a lot of these traits can get thrown out the window

Just my observation but the average man is willing to bend on these things if the woman is his perfect 10

In fact I have a good friend now that is going through this

His woman does not have a low body count. She is not loyal because they had a break and she slept with a few men during that time. She is not teachable and they often get into arguments because she won't "listen"

She doesn't seem to have a very traumatic past though but still

And yet even with all these flaws he is still trying to get her pregnant... Why?

Because she is his perfect 10, and he also told me he valued all those qualities because he watches a lot of redpill content

But when he found a partner hot enough all those qualities he said he wanted were completely thrown in the trash lol

Yes, I'm fully aware that sometime guys will say something and do the opposite. However, in this case, it's more of them not understanding women rather than bending their rules for their perfect 10.

Let me explain...

I have a friend who got into a relationship with a really hot girl. His ideal 10. He was so happy... I know of knew the girl and she seemed a bit suspicious. He told me "bro this girl is soo hot. She'll me by babw for life" Fast forward to a few months later and he's back. But this time, single. His new verdict? "Bro that girl is a psycho. Are hot girls like this? Hot girls are nuts" Of course, we know that not all hot girls are hot. But to him, because of his limited experience, hot girls are now psychos

My friend's situation further solidifies my point that guys have an idea of what a High value girl BUT do NOT understand women. It is this discrepancy that causes them to fall into relationship with their perfect 10 who are the opposite of what they say.

Now, even though they fall into relationships with these women. They quickly realize WHY they had those values in the first place. Sure you've landed a hot girl. Now deal with the fact that you have your friends calling you up that they saw her grinding a guy at a club. Or deal with the fact that she doesn’t listen to anything you say (like your friend experienced). One thing I've noticed is that these guys almost always end up leaving the girl. I'm assuming the op isn't trying to have a long list of failed relationships that's why what I listed is true for most men


The question now is: Why do these men fall into relationships with the same women they claim are low value because she's hot?

I've noticed a few reasons:

- First, like I said earlier, most guys are clueless about relationships. Some of these guys don't discover these traits until they're well into the relationship. A good example is the Madonna/whore complex. Common victims of these are red pill guys. I can't count how many young guys 18 - 25 who watch red pill stuff then go on dates talking about how gen z women are whores and that their mothers & grandmothers are better. Surely, we all know how that girl will present herself

I recently had a colleague telling me how he was telling a girl he's in talking stage with about how he doesn't like girls who sleep around. In his mind he was testing her. He said "if she argues with me or tries to justify sleeping around then she's for the streets" Lmao. It NEVER crossed his mind that girl can just pretend to be what he likes. Btw, his mentality is very very very common. Guys thinking they're smart but just setting themselves up to be played.


- Second, because a girl is their perfect 10, they think she'll change. Common reasons I've heard "Paulie bro she told me she's trying her best. I won't give up on her. I know she'll change" Sure buddy lol. Why guys think they can change a girl is beyond me sometimes. But it still falls into the category of them not being experienced


- Third, no options. This is pretty straightforward


Now, despite all the above reasons of guys falling into relationships with the wrong 10s, they STILL end up leaving these women. Sure, you can tolerate her attitude for the first month or so... what about a year from now. I've met guys who firmly believe "hot girls come with headache" And those guys aren't going back. A guy might say "I love my psycho perfect 10" Great. Until you find out she was gangbanged by 5 guys a week before you met. Or she smashes your new Ps5. All of a sudden you start realising your perfect 10 isnt high value after all

Regarding your friend that wants to get her pregnant... Assuming he hasn't fallen head over heels in love, there's a weird subset of redpillers that believe "no point in getting married. Marriage favors only women not men" These guys just want to get a baby mama instead. So maybe he's part of that group. Some of them do that to avoid the hassle of marriage but have a baby with a pretty girl. Some, weirdly do it to "lock her down"

Anyways, like I said I'm regularly interacting with young men... I've always been a social person. And due my success with women thanks to this forum, guys tend to open up their relationships with women

Men have egos and love our peace of mind. And most guys I've met are unforgiving with things that threaten those things. Granted they might take it for a while for her being their perfect 10 (due to above reasons) BUT they ultimately end things soon enough

 

[PaulieFlyn10]

Well, the back-n-forth you are seeing in this thread ia proof that different men, in different circles, will tend to favor different things.


So there are some more of less commonly agreed upon traits - such as looking your best. But if you do look at what the site teaches - which is primarily game - can be categorised as communication techniques that:
- Establishes rapport
- Eliciting values (find out what she likes - reel info about her)
- Convey those traits or related traits.
- Calibrate.

And I think the same overarching framework can be used by women.

Beyond communication techniques, one discusses other aspects such as logistics and escalation, as well as frame control. But these are dimensions not related to your question.

The question in my book is not to figure out "objective" attractive traits, but rather find ways to figure out what he - the guy you are talking to, finds attractive, and figure ot how you can convey these traits, in a way that does not display outright neediness or supplication. That's "game" in my book.

But just like with women, there are many attraction triggers in men.

-Teevster

Totally agree with your point on communication tech. I believe women should learn more of those traits. Would make things more enjoyable


However, I FIRMLY believe EVERY woman seeking a meaningful relationship should be asking for objective traits. They are very much valid


As seducers, we don't go on dates talking about murder, politics, etc for a reason. They do don't display objective attractive triats. Being nervous, needy, judgemental are traits that are objectively UNATTRACTIVE to majority of women. Likewise being confident, decisive, spontaneous etc are attractive traits.


Now, when you flip the script to women, surely there are traits that objectively make you more attractive(read valuable) or unattractive. I wish more women would ask these questions like op did rather than assume "men want a woman that earns LOTS of money"


There are just certain traits like being feminine, looking hot, being teachable, low trauma past etc that INSTANTLY making you way more valuable to most men. I would call these fundamentals/vibe of women game for lack of a better word. And just like with men, we all know how difficult things get when your fundamentals are off

Sure, it is always good to tailor your game to the man/woman in front of you BUT when these fundamentals are lacking you find out that your overall picture is lacking

 

[empath]

Sounds about right

Include being able to keep his balls dry and always being in the mood for sex when he wants it and you're the perfect woman

For a normal guy I think controlling sex would he a better option.

like being a female PUA.

Like unless she is dating a PU, most guys will start simping and change themselves. If she is slightly less invested than the guy.

but then she will start losing attraction for him.

I guess catch-22 for women.

so give sex sometimes when he is mood and make him work sometime.

basically rewards need to be inconsistent to keep him hooked.

 

[empath]

Hi @TomInHo, I'm glad you joined the discussion because reading your posts on other threads I wanted your view on this subject.

Your point here seems to be that the 'average' man would be willing to bend rules for his personal 10. If the guy was not 'average' and say he was an 8/9/10 himself would he be willing to put up with the 'flaws' as much (isn't that the absolute abundance scenario)? In that situation is being 'hot' enough or actually do you need more (and be high value) for a man that is above average?

Unless he is a PU or super stubborn, everone will end up bending some or other rule.

Most standards are flexible and relative, u can have X standards for A person and B standards for B person.

Probably you should dig multiple time over course of days to figure out he usually operates in relationship.

everyone will say some white lies first to be likeable first but over time as he develops emotional dependency he will start becoming more truthful.