What Is The Consensus On Looks In 2023?

[rr2021 aka DEVENCI]

morons like blackpillers think success with women = 100% determined by looks

RSD retards use to say success with women = 0% impacted by looks

My opinion

- game/seduction skills allow you to consistently fuck girls that are maximum 3 points higher then your looks. for example, a male 5 no matter how good his game is will NOT be able to consistently fuck anything above an 8.

- looks are determined by your height and face. muscle is incredibly overrated.

- height is incredibly underrated but most people underestimate how much height is needed to see the benefits. The benefits of height are only evident once you are at least 6 foot 4.

The above is my opinion based on nearly 10 years of regular clubbing in high end/mainstream venues in major cities in North America

what is the consensus in the community?

has Chase written an article on this subject? i would love to know his opinion on this.

 

[scartissue]

It helps 100%, but don't think not looking like Brad Pitt makes that big of a difference unless you have something major like horrendous acne or are under five feet tall. Even then, if you are out and about chatting up people having a good time, it wouldn't really matter.

 

[ulrich]

I would give my opinion but since you already framed the conversation on terms of numerical estimations of SMV which are highly subjective, I think this discussion is quickly going to the drain and become unproductive.
So, in my opinion, better reframe it from the start than wasting time discussion subjectives.

As for Chase’s opinions:

How to Disprove the "Looks Are the Pillar of Attraction" Ideology

Some guys say looks are all that (or most of what) matters when it comes attracting women. This article uses mountains of photographic evidence to bury that theory forever. Every time we talk about looks on Girls Chase, we get some guys in the comments or on the forum who get upset and tell us...

www.girlschase.com

How Much Do Looks Matter for Romantic Success?

Lately, a friend of mine has been bringing up a recently acquired belief that looks are everything, and everything else is nothing, when it comes to meeting and picking up women.

www.girlschase.com

 

[rr2021 aka DEVENCI]

highly subjective

i have actually always disagreed that looks are subjective.

height is 100% objective. taller the better.

and also facial feature is objective. square shape, high cheek bones, etc..

the idea that looks is subjective is nonsense.

there is nowhere in the world where girls find shorter guys more attractive then taller guts

there is nowhere in the world where girls prefer guys with round faces instead of square faces

this is biological and not subjective at all.

 

[rr2021 aka DEVENCI]

How Much Do Looks Matter for Romantic Success?

Lately, a friend of mine has been bringing up a recently acquired belief that looks are everything, and everything else is nothing, when it comes to meeting and picking up women.

www.girlschase.com

wow.

Chase really is one of the all time greats at understanding this seduction stuff.

I cannot believe i never read this article until now.

i finally understand the mystery of why i attract the hottest women in the club when i have a very aloof and (almost) angry vive.

it's because this makes me appear more dominant like he describes in the article.

no one ever in this industry has been able to explain this except chase.

There was even a big debate years ago on sedfast when i revealed that i did significantly better with an aloof angry vibe compared to a neutral or more chill/relaxed vibe.

Only chase has had the ability to explain this mystery and now it makes perfect sense.

@Chase

thank you.

 

[ulrich]

i have actually always disagreed that looks are subjective.

Oh no, you misunderstand me.

Looks is an undeniable objective factor in seduction.
Grading someone numerically by their looks as in a 1 to 10 scale, that’s the subjective part.
Because a 9 for me can be a 7 to you and skinny girls (which I love) might be something you don’t care for.

Also, height is not that simple.
Somewhere around these forums is an study that shows that people consistently prefer partners that compensate their height difference from the mean… in other words, shorter women prefer taller men, while men closer to the height average (as in “shorter” compared to other men) prefer women closer to the population height average (as in “taller” compared yo other women).

In conclusion, a woman taller than a man is a no-no but the shorter the woman, the taller the man they prefer and viceversa.

 

[rr2021 aka DEVENCI]

Grading someone numerically by their looks as in a 1 to 10 scale, that’s the subjective part.

i disagree.

obviously im not saying it's a hard science but yes you can definitely rate male looks from 1 to 10 in an objective way.

all women, everywhere in the world prefer tall men with square chiseled faces.

this is 100% universal.

nowhere in the world will a woman rate a 5 foot 8 guy with a round face higher then a 6 foot 5 guy with a square face.

Because a 9 for me can be a 7 to you and skinny girls (which I love) might be something you don’t care for.

girls?

huh?

did you even read OP?

this thread is about male looks.

Also, height is not that simple.

incorrect.

height is extremely simple.

the taller the better everywhere in the world.

im shocked anyone would even argue that being taller as a man is not more attractive.

 

[Will_V]

Not sure what the point of this thread is. There is no 'consensus' on looks, there's only opinions.

You cannot rate male looks because a large part of male attractiveness is not the face but what is looking out at you from behind the face. Just look at Hugh Laurie for example, he's got incredible charisma and good style but by any account looks a bit like a hillbilly, and women love him. Then you'll get some incel with a strong jawbone (or whatever the black pill obsession is these days) and no woman wants to go near him, because what's looking out at them from behind the jawbone is a coward.

I am neither particularly good looking nor tall, and yet I get women and I've had suggested by friends and girlfriends that I should model. Why? Because when someone looks at my face, they see something very compelling and alluring, and it's not my jawbone.

Something Chase mentioned in some article or other that has turned out to be 100% true in my experience is that people select partners who are close to them in facial features. Once you know this you will see it everywhere. Time and time again I see a man and woman together and they are strikingly similar in core features. So again, the idea that women just go around looking for some Gigachad who looks like a greek god is just bro fantasy.

Height is the main thing that is universally respected by men and women as a physical feature. However, the reality is that women just want someone a bit taller, and almost never choose a guy who is shorter. How much taller is very subjective. Too much difference and kissing and hugging is just not the same, I had a very short girl once and it hurt my neck to lean down that far, and cuddling just wasn't the same. Since on average women and men's heights differ by 5 inches or so, it seems like that's about the difference that women expect.

Something that I still don't understand is that when I'm walking around I tend to get a lot of attention from girls with super tall boyfriends. Since I'm not that tall you'd expect it to be the opposite. But it's almost like the boyfriend being so tall makes them feel unrelatable and so she is much more open to subcommunication with other dudes. Or something. But it's a thing.

Anyway, I don't care about or focus on any variable that is immutable. I am concerned with not missing the opportunity to add on top of what I already have, and to make sure that boundaries real and especially imagined never take up residency in my mind, as they have in the minds of so many others.

 

[ulrich]

i disagree.

obviously im not saying it's a hard science but yes you can definitely rate male looks from 1 to 10 in an objective way.

Good luck trying, man.

I challenge you to prove that male looks can be objectively measured in a numerical scale without having the observer’s variance outscale the subjects’ statistical standard deviation.

I’m serious.

all women, everywhere in the world prefer tall men with square chiseled faces.

this is 100% universal.

nowhere in the world will a woman rate a 5 foot 8 guy with a round face higher then a 6 foot 5 guy with a square face.

Taller than what?

You do realize that guys over 6 foot 3 tend to look thin and lanky???
You wouldn’t call that the epitome of male looks.

Also, if taller guys are so attractive, why is Hollywood male actors average height 5’10”??

How Tall Am I Compared to Celebrities?

If you've ever wondered how your height compares to celebrities, you can use a height percentile calculator to compare.

www.gigacalculator.com

You seem to be projecting male values of respect/dominance into male-female dynamics

girls?

huh?

did you even read OP?

this thread is about male looks.

You can’t even get scientific agreement that women appearances can be objectively valued and you want to rate men’s?

That’s why I mention it, it’s a work on futility.

incorrect.

height is extremely simple.

the taller the better everywhere in the world.

im shocked anyone would even argue that being taller as a man is not more attractive.

I’m not arguing man, I’m telling you.

Here’s the scientific study, read it and be ready to have your worldview rocked.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9454610/

 

[ulrich]

Btw, this is Sultan Kösen, tallest man in the world.
Have a look at the supermodel he married.

 

[mist]

you obviously are coming in bad faith as usual so why should anyone entertain your threads or allow you to covertly challenge not only the work and experience they have gone through but also challenge what people are even able to achieve provided they put in the work...idk

take care you won't hear me on your threads anymore @rr2021

please be overt so you get banned soon

 

[Zoro]

My personal consensus.

Worth putting effort into looking good.

Not worth stressing over, worrying about, or feeling insecure about.

 

[rr2021 aka DEVENCI]

You cannot rate male looks because a large part of male attractiveness is not the face but what is looking out at you from behind the face. Just look at Hugh Laurie for example, he's got incredible charisma and good style but by any account looks a bit like a hillbilly, and women love him. Then you'll get some incel with a strong jawbone (or whatever the black pill obsession is these days) and no woman wants to go near him, because what's looking out at them from behind the jawbone is a coward.

how is any of this relevant?

I'm not arguing that looks is the key to everything.

i said game/charisma/seduction allows you to get girls up to 3 points above you consistently.

do you agree/disagree?

i also said muscle is massively overrated and height incredibly underrated.

do you agree/disagree?

that is the point of the thread.

I am neither particularly good looking nor tall, and yet I get women and I've had suggested by friends and girlfriends that I should model.

lol.

common man.

do you not see the irrationality of this statement?

friends and girlfriends?

if you could be a model you would have STRANGERS telling you this not people who have a strong affinity for you and want to make you feel good.

also, your entire post is vague.

what exactly is your stance on this subject?

again, i say game/seduction allows you to consistently fuck girls up to 3 points higher then you.

and i say when it comes to make looks its 100% based on face and height and muscle is massively overrated.

that is my opinion stated simply in 2 sentences.

could you make your position clear in such a concise manner as well?

 

[rr2021 aka DEVENCI]

You do realize that guys over 6 foot 3 tend to look thin and lanky???

hahaha.

the myth of muscle shows up again.

i honestly wonder what planet the muscle guys live on.

a 6 foot 3 "thin and lanky" guy will absolutely DESTROY a 5 foot 8 muscular guy when it comes to attention from women in any setting.

i cannot believe how many people seem to think muscle matters a lot.

i have been thin and lanky my entire life.

i do NOT lift weights at all and only play sports for exercise.

But i won the genetic lottery and have a legit male model face and im 6 foot 1

i have NEVER in my life met a guy my height or shorter who got more attention from girls then me.

Not when i was in high school, not during the 4 years i lived at one of the biggest universities in north america and not in my almost 10 years of regular clubbing.

The only guys who get more attention from girls then me are guy over 6 foot 4.

I have honestly never understood where this idea that muscle matters came from.

maybe i have a blindspot because of my face and maybe if you have a below average face then muscle matters.

Also, 6 foot 3 is NOT really where you see the benefits of height.

6 foot 5 and above is where height really starts to show the advantages.

Most people overrate how valuable being 6 foot to 6 foot 3 is

i would say that range is good NOT great

im 6 foot 1 and while i have never been called short in my life , i have also never been called tall.

if you want to see the power of height, go clubbing with a guy who is above 6 foot 4 and has at least an average face

you will be shocked how much attention a guy that tall gets in the nightlife even if he has an average face.

Also, if taller guys are so attractive, why is Hollywood male actors average height 5’10”??

lol.

reminds me of the people who would always say "but what about tom cruise" whenever height was mentioned in another forum.

hahaha

but yeah im not debating with you that taller is better universally

it would be like debating a flat earther

but whatever you tell yourself, the fact is that everywhere in the world women prefer tall guys with square faces; this is universal.

anyone who denies it is lying to themselves

Btw, this is Sultan Kösen, tallest man in the world.
Have a look at the supermodel he married.

hahaha.

great strawman.

thanks for laugh bro; your recent posts where comedy gold.

good luck.
.

 

[ulrich]

hahaha.

the myth of muscle shows up again.

Lol, what an askhole.

Who mentioned muscles? I’m talking proportions here.

a 6 foot 3 "thin and lanky" guy will absolutely DESTROY a 5 foot 8 muscular guy when it comes to attention from women in any setting.

Oh yeah, Bob Saget wets more panties than Tom Cruise… sure.

reminds me of the people who would always say "but what about tom cruise" whenever height was mentioned in another forum.

hahaha

Except the AVERAGE of all actors is 5’10.

Unlike your experiences which are s=1 and hardly statistical.

but yeah im not debating with you that taller is better universally

it would be like debating a flat earther

Man, the one with flimsy arguments is you, lol

I throw a scientific study and you talk me about how cute you are and why you should be a model.

If you have any argument against the scientific study, I’m all ears.
Otherwise, it’s obvious that you want your views validated and sorry pal, being tall doesn’t make you special.

great strawman.


thanks for laugh bro; your recent posts where comedy gold.

good luck.
.

Strawman, how is a strawman?
Didn’t you said that height is universal and the more the better?

Perhaps reality is more complex than your silly elementary school level theory of the taller the better… which has been my point all along.

Listen, if you want to have stupid/simplistic views of reality, go ahead.
I’m just here to say that reality is a little more complex than what you seem to be able to grasp.

 

[rr2021 aka DEVENCI]

Lol, what an askhole.

Who mentioned muscles? I’m talking proportions here.



Oh yeah, Bob Saget wets more panties than Tom Cruise… sure.



Except the AVERAGE of all actors is 5’10.

Unlike your experiences which are s=1 and hardly statistical.



Man, the one with flimsy arguments is you, lol

I throw a scientific study and you talk me about how cute you are and why you should be a model.

If you have any argument against the scientific study, I’m all ears.
Otherwise, it’s obvious that you want your views validated and sorry pal, being tall doesn’t make you special.



Strawman, how is a strawman?
Didn’t you said that height is universal and the more the better?

Perhaps reality is more complex than your silly elementary school level theory of the taller the better… which has been my point all along.

Listen, if you want to have stupid/simplistic views of reality, go ahead.
I’m just here to say that reality is a little more complex than what you seem to be able to grasp.

hahahaha.

omg.

i have not laughed this hard in weeks.

this is better comedy then flat earthers.

please keep these posts coming bro.

 

[ulrich]

hahahaha.

omg.

i have not laughed this hard in weeks.

this is better comedy then flat earthers.

please keep these posts coming bro.

Arguments much?

 

[rr2021 aka DEVENCI]

Arguments much?

lol.

i already told you i dont argue with flath earthers.

your argument is the dating equivalent of flat earth theory.

but hey good luck to you and your fellow manlet.

whatever helps you sleep at night.

 

[Chase]

I'll help you both out here:

• There are traits that, taken on the whole, are more desirable: height, masculine facial features (though curiously country-dependent; Spanish women for instance prefer more facially feminine men!), etc.
  
  
• There is also quite a bit of variation within individual preferences, with different men going for different girls, and different girls going for different men

Seems like you're arguing past each other, with @ulrich reading @rr2021's comments as stating there are absolute rigid ratings hierarchies among men among which women have universal agreement on. e.g., if one girl thinks a man is a 10, every girl thinks that guy is a 10. If one girl thinks a guy is a 7, every girl thinks that guy is a 7. That does not sound like what @rr2021 is saying (correct me if wrong, @rr2021).

Likewise, @rr2021 is reading @ulrich as saying attractiveness is completely relative, with no common elements between what one woman considers attractive vs. what another one does. e.g., that for every 100 girls who love Tom Cruise, another 100 girls are equally smitten with Steve Buscemi. Again, this is not what @ulrich is saying (and I can speak confidently for him, I think, knowing him decently well).

In other words:

• @rr2021 would agree there is individual variation among women about what men they'd rate where. He simply is saying that there are certain qualities that come more highly prized, on average, than others, when it comes to determining male looks
  
  
• @ulrich would agree there are certain qualities that come more highly prized, on average, than others, when it comes to determining male looks. He simply is saying that there is individual variation among women about what men they'd rate where

The most frustrating arguments are the ones where you actually both agree, but you don't realize you agree because you're presuming a more extreme position on the other person's side than he actually holds, and are all the while arguing to the same point from different directions.

Chase

 

[Will_V]

i said game/charisma/seduction allows you to get girls up to 3 points above you consistently.

do you agree/disagree?

3 points above you in what? Looks? If so, you're trying to reduce everything to a function of looks while stating that it's just a part of the picture.

Remember we're talking about men here. Even if we agreed on a rating scale of female beauty, the idea that women look at men's physical attractiveness on a linear scale is very unlikely at best.

i also said muscle is massively overrated and height incredibly underrated.

I agree that muscle is overrated among guys, I wouldn't say that height is underrated though. I'm sure it is an advantage for short term flings but if I'm going by the most beautiful women I see and the guys they are with, height isn't some standout theme. Especially I see a lot of smoking hot latina women with short and very stylish latino dudes. Overall I'd say most guys I see with the hottest girls are probably around 6ft, but beyond that I don't see much correlation.

lol.

common man.

do you not see the irrationality of this statement?

friends and girlfriends?

if you could be a model you would have STRANGERS telling you this not people who have a strong affinity for you and want to make you feel good.

Why? I certainly don't look anything like a runway model, but I do have presence and a good intuitive sense of style. If you google men's fashion you'll come across plenty of dudes that don't look spectacularly exotic and yet have the ability to express themselves and absorb attention without saying anything. There's not a lot of guys around with that skill, and I think that's what they were referring to.

also, your entire post is vague.

what exactly is your stance on this subject?

I don't have a stance, not like you, because I pretty much don't care, and the whole point of my style is to make women forget about societal conventions.

again, i say game/seduction allows you to consistently fuck girls up to 3 points higher then you.

and i say when it comes to make looks its 100% based on face and height and muscle is massively overrated.

that is my opinion stated simply in 2 sentences.

could you make your position clear in such a concise manner as well?

I thought you just said height was underrated, so it's overrated when it comes to looks now? So what is it underrated for?

Also what do the points refer to, why 3, and when you say consistently what do you mean, like every single time or every now and then?

Nothing concise about all this my friend.