WHat is the reason for this???

[Themevictory]

Hi,

I am a guy at 35 years. When I was 15 I read a book called "How to win friends and influence people" by Dale Carnegie.
Dale told us that we must give other people attention and that this way we can earn more people as friends then letting them come to us by their will.

This is quite the opposite of what you guys teach (ignoring girls).

20 years has passed but I have never understood what is the reason for this difference? And how to act?

I have experience that giving attention to women does not work?

But I am afraid of hurting a women /girl I don't know by ignoring them as it will mean to ignore them.
I treat them from my own point of view, but since I was 15 I have been hurt-ed many times.
And now it comes to that I have begun to think that this must be a wrong strategy.
But I am confused and I am afraid of to begin doing things I don't know a reason of.

And that's it. I have always been scared of to being criticized as I have been criticized under my childhood.

Can anybody help me please and explain what is the reason for above mentioned difference???
Thanks in advance.

 

[Whizzy]

I think you can boil it down to two main points;

1) Giving attention to friends helps to maintain friendships
2) Seduction and friendship are different

This is not to say that you outright ignore someone that you care about and gives you attention, but playing hard to get (scarcity mentality) when combined with strong dominant frames (persist dont chase, funadmentals, etc) leads to strong initial interest when used properly. Curiosity and impulsiveness are strong emotions in many people my friend

 

[robbies]

Just want to add my two cents...

You mentioned being worried about hurting girls by ignoring them, only to be hurt many times by them... Sounds like you might be repeating a vicious pattern here of deliberately getting hurt so that you will feel normal. Instead of thinking too much the reasons for ignoring a girl (scarcity--we value more that which is difficult to obtain), I'd suggest just try it out. Play with it. After all, you probably won't see her ever again if it doesn't work out. So you might as well take this as a learning experience.

After all, repeating the same thing over and over, expecting different results, is the definition of insanity.

 

[Themevictory]

Hi,
Thanks for your reply and caring about.
By now what we know is that in dating game when you don't give other person attention they like you more, and when you give them attention they will not like you as much or at all.
That we know.
But what is technically reason for this??? Can moderators or anybody tell me what happens technically please???

Thank you

 

[Whizzy]

It's simple, you desire what you can't have...aka "the chase" When a girl chases after you she loves it

 

[Themevictory]

Is this all???
No technical details???

 

[Themevictory]

By technical details I mean how does this process happens chemically?
Can a moderator or anybody please help???
Thank you

 

[Themevictory]

I guess nobody wants to help?
or
Maybe I am demanding too much?

I am afraid of to be criticized if I begin to let women chase without knowing details off of what I am doing? Anybody wanna help?

Thank you for your help and understanding

 

[Richard]

Hi,
Thanks for your reply and caring about.
By now what we know is that in dating game when you don't give other person attention they like you more, and when you give them attention they will not like you as much or at all.
That we know.
But what is technically reason for this??? Can moderators or anybody tell me what happens technically please???

Thank you

If you want a psychological answer - it's the result of cognitive dissonance where two thoughts, feelings, or emotions clash with one another and your brain resolves the tension by creating an answer.

A good example would be with cheating on a test in school where: You advocate to be against cheating, then realize that there's a big test that you didn't study for, the question becomes to cheat or not to cheat, and you feel tension because if you cheat on the test you'll pass - but you also advocate against cheating. Your brain rationalizes by changing one of those thoughts or feelings, so now you think: I guess cheating isn't so bad.

The same is true with "the chase" - where a girl notices that she's putting a lot more energy into you than you are into her but yet she still cares about you and wants to be around you - so her mind unconsciously rationalizes: I guess I like him.

Also - to quote Anthony Robbins "Where focus goes, energy flows." That's to say that when one person devotes attention to another that's where there energy (time, thoughts, resources, etc) go in to. That's why having a scarcity mentality is so deadly because you see hot women as scarce so you focus too much on them. Think about it - when you invest all your time and resources into a girl she comes to understand that you aren't going anywhere, so she can keep you around while focusing on the men of adventure, edginess, and sex.

Furthermore - Chase wrote an article about Dale Carnegie and while it was a magnificent book - it's about making friends and winning people over to your side, but it isn't about seduction. While it is true that some of the things Carnegie says relate to seduction (because I adopted a lot of his writing into my game) the page-by-page text should not be used entirely to pick up women. Carnegie talks about how to make people feel at ease with you <--- and that's the most crucial factor in picking up women.

Any other questions, or clarification?

-Richard

 

[A2daMIR]

Hi,

I am a guy at 35 years. When I was 15 I read a book called "How to win friends and influence people" by Dale Carnegie.
Dale told us that we must give other people attention and that this way we can earn more people as friends then letting them come to us by their will.

This is quite the opposite of what you guys teach (ignoring girls).

20 years has passed but I have never understood what is the reason for this difference? And how to act?

Whats the name of the book? "How to win friends and influence people"

Why are you here on this site? "To fuck a girl" first and foremost, or to develop the skill to bed any woman.

You're trying to say why the methods to BEFRIEND A GIRL doesnt work to on PICKING UP AND BANGING A GIRL.Some of the concepts might be the same, but at some point they veer off to different paths. If you do everything that the book teaches you to befriend someone, well congrats, now they are your friend, and normally friends dont wanna fuck because they dont want to ruin the friendship.

I have experience that giving attention to women does not work?

Does not work in what sense? im guessing you mean sleeping with them. If you keep giving girls constant attention and praise them al the time, you will have one of the two outcomes:
1) you're the creepy guy thats "stalking" her and makes her feel comfortable
2) you become the guy that she goes to to make her feel better about herself, because you're easy

There is a fine line between having the girl WORK for a compliment and giving her breadcrumbs (via compliments) all teh way to your bed, which is a subject that require alot more details

But I am afraid of hurting a women /girl I don't know by ignoring them as it will mean to ignore them.

That shows "weak" mentality. Dont get me wrong, you seem like a nice guy, but you can be STRONG and Genuine/nice. YOU live YOUR life. YOUR time is YOUR time, noone is ENTITLED to your time and attention, people have to earn it. Noone, especially a stranger whom you met at a bar or a party has the right to get "hurt" by you because you are ignoring them.

Also, you might be mistaking the word "ignore". Granted i'm new on this site and this is my first post, but i've been around the community... Ignore doesnt mean that if a girl is tapping you on the shoulder or calling you by name you are just ignoring her. yes you're correct, thats rude, and noone is asking you to do that (at leats i hope not, again, i havent had a chance to read some of the topics to get a feel for the vive of this site).

in my book, when i say you should ignore a girl is... actually let me give you a live example. i was at a club, was talking to this beautiful bleach blonde, nice tan, i would rank her a 9. She was telling me she went to a fancy restaurant in town, how her BMW was acting up (which was bullshit in my opinion, she even named the model of her car, so i knew she was just trying to show off, she said something like " my BMW 645 is making this wierd noise on the tire i had to go get it checked out in the morning"), when she was done talking (2-3 minutes of her talking about her day and throwing in all the luxorious things she did and owns), i said " wow your day was more exciting than mine, can you hold this for a second" i gave her my drink and bent down and pretended to clean my shoe and got my drink back from her

Some guys wouldve been like:
* you went to XYZ restaurant , wow thats a very nice place
* You spent $2000 shopping just today, damn
*You drive such and such car, damn nice

This is buying into what she wants. Thats a no-no in my book.

Furthermore, as you saw, i never interrupted her or "ignored" her literaly.

However, what i did do was after she was finished, i ACKNOWLEDGED that i was listening, saying "wow your day was more exciting than mine", and then i did something casual, even have her hold my drink. This shows im not phased by anything she says, and i brought her down a notch off of her high horse.

You need to keep in mind that girls, even average girls get hit on on a daily basis. That gets very old very fast, trust me, its flattering, but its gets old after the first day. You need to DISTINGUISH yourself from the rest of teh competition.

Your fear is that people are telling you to be RUDE to girls. Thats not the case, the message is "Dont be easy". make the girl EARN your time, attention, and your compliments.

Sure its easier said than done, but it can be done. So how can you do that?

Confidence. Thats the answer... Confi-fucking-dence, thats all you need. You might think to yourself what about my looks, job etc. Those are tools, they are TOOLS to build up your cofidence.

For example, imagine yourself with a 6pack ( of abs not beer lol) and 20 inch arm, would you feel good about yourself? well there you go, you have BOOSTED confidence

If you walk into a store and can buy anything you want without having to worry about the price, you feel a sense of accomplishment, that you've "got it made", but all that does is just boost your cofidence


I tried to pack alot of info in this reply, let me know if there are any questions

 

[stinsonjr]

@A2daMIR Great to see you here, bro. And by the way, you should put your signature quote so we know you're the real A2daMIR,lol. I'm the guy who emailed you.

@Themevictory The reason Why you feel this way to find a reason? Because your brain is in conflict with your beliefs of the world. The same beliefs you had for 20 years. And why should you hear some guys on the Internet telling you how to act around women? I completely agree. It's not you, right. It seems to mess with your Identity of a guy who's caring and giving attention to people for twenty years. I can relate to your worries because I just had a really long convo with a friend of mine who had this exact mentality. You're having these second thoughts about Seduction because it's firstly counter-intuitive to what you know about the world. Secondly, the reason I believe is that You never met a Natural before so you really don't have a role model to compare yourself to. All those Romantic Men in the movies are not real people, you know.

(Naturals are men who are really cool with women. Girls love him, adore him, go crazy over him like he's a rockstar or a celebrity not because of extrinsic things like fame or money etc but because of the intrinsic (his attitude and confidence that makes them feel this way).

Real Reason Why girls act in a feminine, loving caring way when we ignore (I just used the term to make you understand, correct term would be "Effortlessly Charming her") It's because every guy who gives her a lot of attention is only after one thing. HER BOD. She knows this because there are too many of these guys who leer at her or catcall her or talk to her like a friend and he would bounce on her or do crazy shit and hurt her when he gets alone to gratify his sexual needs. Only few men could control themselves around a hot girl and talk to her like a real man instead of flattering her with his appreciation of her beauty or her ability before she earned his attention. The point I'm trying to make here is, no, you're not manipulating anyone. This site helps you to be Charming to women than you were ever before. If you still feel like you're manipulating girls, read this page.

http://www.zanperrion.com/what-is-seduction.php

If you're still unconvinced, shoot me your questions.

 

[Big Daddy]

I have a question, but it's the other way around: if you're looking to make friends, does reaching out people really do the job efficiently? If so, what do I have to keep in mind while doing it?

I've been wanting to read Dale's book for a lifetime now, but there are other books that I've got to read first. Damn, I got to schedule reading time. Anyways, instead of meeting a girl to sleep with her, let's say you want to meet a girl to become friends with her and get into her social circle. How does "not giving her all the attention that she wants" play here?

I've been wanting to get a good grasp on making valuable friendships recently, but every time I reach someone, guy or girl, it feels like I'm "chasing" and it feels like I have less power in obtaining what I want, which is to generate value somehow in exchange for other types of value. You provide (potential) upfront value to women you want to seduce by handling your fundamentals and communicating to woman that you're a fucking alpha male. If looking for friendships, what should you be focusing at communicating and how?

I don't see friendships power control as vital as in seduction, but I think it does play a role. At least I'm more comfortable knowing that I have slightly more power than the other part, otherwise it seems I'm just bugging people for things I want, as opposed to knowing that I provide people value just as I know women like me because I'm attractive. Just as there are ways to make women more willing to gravitate towards you, I'm assuming that that might be the case for friendships as well?

 

[stinsonjr]

I have a question, but it's the other way around: if you're looking to make friends, does reaching out people really do the job efficiently? If so, what do I have to keep in mind while doing it?

I've been wanting to read Dale's book for a lifetime now, but there are other books that I've got to read first. Damn, I got to schedule reading time. Anyways, instead of meeting a girl to sleep with her, let's say you want to meet a girl to become friends with her and get into her social circle. How does "not giving her all the attention that she wants" play here?

I've been wanting to get a good grasp on making valuable friendships recently, but every time I reach someone, guy or girl, it feels like I'm "chasing" and it feels like I have less power in obtaining what I want, which is to generate value somehow in exchange for other types of value. You provide (potential) upfront value to women you want to seduce by handling your fundamentals and communicating to woman that you're a fucking alpha male. If looking for friendships, what should you be focusing at communicating and how?

I don't see friendships power control as vital as in seduction, but I think it does play a role. At least I'm more comfortable knowing that I have slightly more power than the other part, otherwise it seems I'm just bugging people for things I want, as opposed to knowing that I provide people value just as I know women like me because I'm attractive. Just as there are ways to make women more willing to gravitate towards you, I'm assuming that that might be the case for friendships as well?

Great Question, Bigdaddy. I guess Chase wrote an article on this already but still if you had already read it and you're looking for advanced stuff I hope someone might help you.

https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-m ... le-friends

IMO, I like to keep them on my friend zone. Yeah, Friend zoned just like girls do to guys.

 

[Themevictory]

Greetings everybody,

How are you?

Sorry for delaying in answer as I have been busy going through How to win friends and influence people one more time.
I would recommend to listen to this great book which is most read book in the world after Bible.
Here is a link. Please enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4R2p9WnzAo

I will be back with more detailed quest, until then please listen to this book. Perhaps you understand why I am confused after going through this book and have complications understanding chase???

Thanks everybody like I said I'll keep in touch shortly.

Have a great day.
Themevictory

 

[Themevictory]

Greetings friends,
While I gave you access to most read book after Bible.
I have been spent some time trying to figure out whats wrong with me.

You guys are right. All of you.
This goes back to my believes of the world.
I were grown up without getting any attention or love from my parents, and they treated me bad. Luckily that time is over, but effect of them may be left over forever.
Now I think and feel the pain if I ignore anyone. Man or women are alike.
Now don't get me wrong ( I am not gay or bisexual), but I know what pain of ignoring or pain of not giving love is. Because I have experienced my self in my life, and effects of it are still present even that bad time has ended.
A majority of people (men and women alike) respond for chase or not giving them attention with giving attention.
Now getting attention is what I really want, but I can not forgive myself committing as serious bad deed as committing crime of not giving attention.
That's the real problem. A majority of people love chase or ignoring them, but a substantial minority (Myself included) has gone through pain and knows how bad thing it is. That's what creates whole trouble.

I agree with you to a certain level that my time is my time and no body has a right to feel pain because I i ignore them. But is it not selfishness???

I think that is the core of the problem itself. I don't want to be an egoist, and how to win friends and influence people teaches exactly that.
Another problem with me (I don't know why maybe you guys can help me figuring this out is) is that I don't adopt any new idea at once when I come across it. This is making it harder to adopt any new ideas. I do not know why???

If you have listened this unabridged audiobook and understood what I have said than maybe you may be really help me out?
I am scared of doing thing wrong in my life, that's why I have always been looking for why are things the way they are?
I still don't understand why Dale's methods or my wish to doing things right do not work? Maybe you can help?
If you do I will greatly appreciate it.
Thank you very much for listening to me.
Have a great time.
Sincerely
Themevictory

 

[stinsonjr]

Greetings friends,
While I gave you access to most read book after Bible.
I have been spent some time trying to figure out whats wrong with me.

You guys are right. All of you.
This goes back to my believes of the world.
I were grown up without getting any attention or love from my parents, and they treated me bad. Luckily that time is over, but effect of them may be left over forever.
Now I think and feel the pain if I ignore anyone. Man or women are alike.
Now don't get me wrong ( I am not gay or bisexual), but I know what pain of ignoring or pain of not giving love is. Because I have experienced my self in my life, and effects of it are still present even that bad time has ended.
A majority of people (men and women alike) respond for chase or not giving them attention with giving attention.
Now getting attention is what I really want, but I can not forgive myself committing as serious bad deed as committing crime of not giving attention.
That's the real problem. A majority of people love chase or ignoring them, but a substantial minority (Myself included) has gone through pain and knows how bad thing it is. That's what creates whole trouble.

I agree with you to a certain level that my time is my time and no body has a right to feel pain because I i ignore them. But is it not selfishness???

I think that is the core of the problem itself. I don't want to be an egoist, and how to win friends and influence people teaches exactly that.
Another problem with me (I don't know why maybe you guys can help me figuring this out is) is that I don't adopt any new idea at once when I come across it. This is making it harder to adopt any new ideas. I do not know why???

If you have listened this unabridged audiobook and understood what I have said than maybe you may be really help me out?
I am scared of doing thing wrong in my life, that's why I have always been looking for why are things the way they are?
I still don't understand why Dale's methods or my wish to doing things right do not work? Maybe you can help?
If you do I will greatly appreciate it.
Thank you very much for listening to me.
Have a great time.
Sincerely
Themevictory

Hey themevictory,

I honestly didn't know what to say to this. You seem like the nicest guy I've never met. When everyone's trying to think about just getting laid, you're thinking about the other person's pain. But the important thing is, though, are you meeting a lot of girls consistently? So you don't feel hurt or hate towards the one girl who rejected you last night. Go ahead, man. Go out and give all your attention to the person you're talking to. But if they hurt you or anything, take care of yourself. Plus, I don't know where you live or anything (please tell it's london, I'll be there in a couple months lol) but the way I see the real world, if you give too much attention too quickly, either they think you want something from them (pretty obvious, if you're talking to a girl who has been approached by a hundred guys in the last week. She knows you're after her BOOTAY.) or they think you're crazy cuz only a few people would do that in the real world. Anyway, the only thing I want you to do is to go out and meet some girls during the day time and Be funny than giving too much attention. But keep in mind, you could find maybe a couple girls who want this kinda attention (daddy's little girls mentality) but the majority knows that if a person gives too much attention and if she's a girl she knows you're after her bod. Also, do me a favor, go right back to A2daMIR's comment and read that again. We're talking about girls and you're still talking about being social. Girls fear too much attention cuz the last guy gave this kinda attention was stalking her since freshman or he was the guy who forcefully kissed her after he bought her a dinner thinking buying dinner means access to her affections. So to most girls, Too much attention=he's into my ass. The choice is yours though, good luck.

 

[Mr.Rob]

Themedvictory, I want to point out a couple observations and give you an invitation to read a book (it's not "how to win friends and influence people").

I just skimmed over this thread but I noticed that

1. You seem obsessed with the book "how to win friends and influence people" and are trying to use it as a guide to sleep with and date women... yeah.

2.

Now I think and feel the pain if I ignore anyone.

just because you feel pain when you ignore people doesn't mean that everyone feels pain when they get ignored. I know I don't care about getting ignored. I get ignored by women and have them walk off mid conversation on a regular basis (I also get their attention quite often as well).
Besides people ignore people for a reason. It's communication between people and you can actually learn something when people ignore,reject,tool, insult you, etc (either make you stronger or you were actually in the wrong in which you can correct that next time).

My invitation I leave you with, as stinsonjr pointed out:

I honestly didn't know what to say to this. You seem like the nicest guy I've never met

I personally wouldn't take this as a compliment, and yes you do sound like a nice guy and I'm sure you have awesome intentions. Seriously! But often times nice people end up putting others before them and sacrificing their happiness as a result which is something I wouldn't want you to do.

If this sounds like you I invite you to put down Dale Carnegie and open your mind to a book that is "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Robert Glover, and see how being "nice" is actually doing more harm to you than good.

I wish you the best in figuring out your situation my friend.

-Rob

 

[Themevictory]

Dear Mr. Rob, Thanks for putting me to the right place. I have today purchased No more mr. Nice guy. But before I begin to read it I have one last question my friend. If it is ok? Not for the sake of arguing, but to understand things right? How can I put down a book that is most read after The Holy Bible (How to win friends and influence people) in the world? Please don't think I am being argumentative, I am just trying to underdtand things before I do them, rather that afterwords when it is too late? I hope you kindly answer, and then I can begin No more mr. Nice guy to read. Please answer quickly Mr. Rob? Thank you very much Enjoy your day

 

[Franco]

Themevictory,

How can I put down a book that is most read after The Holy Bible (How to win friends and influence people) in the world? Please don't think I am being argumentative, I am just trying to underdtand things before I do them, rather that afterwords when it is too late?

The Holy Bible might also be the most false books in the world. There's no evidence showing that the majority of what is written in there is true or valuable.

My point here is that how many "readers" a book has doesn't reflect on the book's actual value. If the number of readers actually reflected how valuable and insightful a book or website was, then Chase's e-book and/or website would probably be some of the most popular reads in the world right now.

Just something to consider.

- Franco

 

[Themevictory]

Dear Franco, thanks for aquick answer. If most popular books are false then why majority of people read them? That is my last question. Honestly