- Joined
- Jan 5, 2014
- Messages
- 3,222
Chase recently posted an article about PUAs and as someone who for years was that chronic cold approacher, I wanted to chime in on what PUA got wrong and what most guys on this very forum get wrong themselves as well, given the arguments I have had with them.
PUA focused on making guys good with women but neglected making them good with people or helping them build status, which is what led to their struggles in the first place.
Look at the kind of demographic that gets into PUA, the guy who was not one of the cool kids in high school and was never a part of the "in-crowd" in his college days. Most PUA bootcamps are filled with immigrants, late bloomers, STEM geeks and guys who by nature did not get much action during their teens and early 20s. The kinds of guys who did not have a large social circle to fall back on, good friendships or any sort of social proof to help out with their status. PUAs attempted to take these men and through some gimmicks, turn them into womanizers. Over the years this evolved more into helping these men get better through advanced game and maybe even acknowledging that looks matter but it still neglected helping men become better with people in general and building status.
Instead what this led to is taking a bunch of nerdy awkward guys whose looks are not on point and making them do mass approaches in public. "Coaches" told guys with bad fundamentals to just spam approach until someone started to bite and take their risks. For one, cold approaching no matter how you put it is not a social norm at all, it is outside of the norm. Now add to that aggressively trying to kiss close a girl you just met and it becomes even weirder to where if you do it in a small enough town, the social repercussions destroy your reputation.
It is because of this understanding of social norms, lack of social status and inability to be socially respected enough that these men struggled in the first place. Even when you go out alone to a bar to "sarge" or stand alone when everyone else is in groups, you come off as socially awkward and low status. People usually go out to bars and clubs in packs and groups, they don't go out alone, it indicates lower social status. Social status itself is king when it comes to landing some of the top tier girls out there, PUA never bothered to ask men to fix it. All you got were socially awkward guys who still lacked social calibration and yet went out spam approaching women, thinking they were right and everyone else was wrong.
Then social media really started to take off and so did dating apps, now these guys were even more screwed.
After being around a lot of hot women in recent months, I have found that a lack of a social media presence is very much a red flag. While good looks and tight game can overcome it, you make things a lot harder on yourself. Unfortunately, PUA and other "gurus" started to berate social media and frustrated chumps started to act like they were in the right for not being on it. In other words, they started to fight against evolution as it was happening and paid the price for it very dearly.
These guys avoided social media and did not pick up skills on how to best present themselves to their market through good photos and enough people liking them, I know because even I ignored social media in college. Then reality hit and it hit really hard as dating apps took off and having good photos was paramount to obtaining success with women.
Women wanted to be able to look at you online and see that you were normal, had friends, had a life and had interesting things going on in it. A lack of social media meant that you were either hiding something or just out of touch with the current times, in other words, you didn't "get it". When dating app profiles were filled with selfies, it meant you lacked a worthwhile life and a lack of good photos meant you had nothing interesting to show.
In other words she got the impression that no one was buying from you, your presentation was off and there must be a reason for that.
Now some guys were able to overcome this and still get laid but it was not easy.
Certain kinds of girls who were socially reclusive and not a part of the kinds of girls we all fantasize about overlooked this if all else was on point too.
Unfortunately you always left opportunities on the table by not maximizing on the social media age opportunities and not investing in them, it just made your job harder.
Because the social media and dating apps age has made status that much more important.
Women will always take the guy with thousands of followers and top notch photos, they want to know why 500+ people are loving his pics and what is going on. In some ways, it is like high school and college got carried over on to the real world.
Women will always take the guy with top notch cool pics on dating apps, it means he gets how to present himself and probably has a lot of interesting stuff going on in his life even if he actually doesn't.
All of this says to women that the guy is good with people and he gets it when it comes to social value. No woman wants a small or lonely wedding, they want the wedding with thousands of guests and the big show. A woman wants to feel like by being a part of a guy's life, she is a part of something bigger and that is due to his popularity.
A good social media page and excellent photos along with a cool social life is like going on Amazon and seeing hundreds of people left a product 5 star reviews.
But so many guys won't get this, they will continue to act holier than thou towards social media, they will make a fool out of themselves by spam approaching girls who are not available and only luck out with average girls. All because PUA forgot to acknowledge that the reason these men suck is not because they lacked "game" but rather they lacked the social skills needed to be better with people.
PUA focused on making guys good with women but neglected making them good with people or helping them build status, which is what led to their struggles in the first place.
Look at the kind of demographic that gets into PUA, the guy who was not one of the cool kids in high school and was never a part of the "in-crowd" in his college days. Most PUA bootcamps are filled with immigrants, late bloomers, STEM geeks and guys who by nature did not get much action during their teens and early 20s. The kinds of guys who did not have a large social circle to fall back on, good friendships or any sort of social proof to help out with their status. PUAs attempted to take these men and through some gimmicks, turn them into womanizers. Over the years this evolved more into helping these men get better through advanced game and maybe even acknowledging that looks matter but it still neglected helping men become better with people in general and building status.
Instead what this led to is taking a bunch of nerdy awkward guys whose looks are not on point and making them do mass approaches in public. "Coaches" told guys with bad fundamentals to just spam approach until someone started to bite and take their risks. For one, cold approaching no matter how you put it is not a social norm at all, it is outside of the norm. Now add to that aggressively trying to kiss close a girl you just met and it becomes even weirder to where if you do it in a small enough town, the social repercussions destroy your reputation.
It is because of this understanding of social norms, lack of social status and inability to be socially respected enough that these men struggled in the first place. Even when you go out alone to a bar to "sarge" or stand alone when everyone else is in groups, you come off as socially awkward and low status. People usually go out to bars and clubs in packs and groups, they don't go out alone, it indicates lower social status. Social status itself is king when it comes to landing some of the top tier girls out there, PUA never bothered to ask men to fix it. All you got were socially awkward guys who still lacked social calibration and yet went out spam approaching women, thinking they were right and everyone else was wrong.
Then social media really started to take off and so did dating apps, now these guys were even more screwed.
After being around a lot of hot women in recent months, I have found that a lack of a social media presence is very much a red flag. While good looks and tight game can overcome it, you make things a lot harder on yourself. Unfortunately, PUA and other "gurus" started to berate social media and frustrated chumps started to act like they were in the right for not being on it. In other words, they started to fight against evolution as it was happening and paid the price for it very dearly.
These guys avoided social media and did not pick up skills on how to best present themselves to their market through good photos and enough people liking them, I know because even I ignored social media in college. Then reality hit and it hit really hard as dating apps took off and having good photos was paramount to obtaining success with women.
Women wanted to be able to look at you online and see that you were normal, had friends, had a life and had interesting things going on in it. A lack of social media meant that you were either hiding something or just out of touch with the current times, in other words, you didn't "get it". When dating app profiles were filled with selfies, it meant you lacked a worthwhile life and a lack of good photos meant you had nothing interesting to show.
In other words she got the impression that no one was buying from you, your presentation was off and there must be a reason for that.
Now some guys were able to overcome this and still get laid but it was not easy.
Certain kinds of girls who were socially reclusive and not a part of the kinds of girls we all fantasize about overlooked this if all else was on point too.
Unfortunately you always left opportunities on the table by not maximizing on the social media age opportunities and not investing in them, it just made your job harder.
Because the social media and dating apps age has made status that much more important.
Women will always take the guy with thousands of followers and top notch photos, they want to know why 500+ people are loving his pics and what is going on. In some ways, it is like high school and college got carried over on to the real world.
Women will always take the guy with top notch cool pics on dating apps, it means he gets how to present himself and probably has a lot of interesting stuff going on in his life even if he actually doesn't.
All of this says to women that the guy is good with people and he gets it when it comes to social value. No woman wants a small or lonely wedding, they want the wedding with thousands of guests and the big show. A woman wants to feel like by being a part of a guy's life, she is a part of something bigger and that is due to his popularity.
A good social media page and excellent photos along with a cool social life is like going on Amazon and seeing hundreds of people left a product 5 star reviews.
But so many guys won't get this, they will continue to act holier than thou towards social media, they will make a fool out of themselves by spam approaching girls who are not available and only luck out with average girls. All because PUA forgot to acknowledge that the reason these men suck is not because they lacked "game" but rather they lacked the social skills needed to be better with people.
