What should I do?

[Arclite]

I have been with a girl for 2 years and 4 months, it was an extraordinary relationship, we did not fight too often and everything seemed to work. At a certain point (2 years) we decided to move in together (she was a student, living at dorm and she was in her final year) and things really blown up. There is quite a difference between us, I'm 28 and she is 23, I am career oriented, very disciplined, while she is not working yet (from her lack of having a job, comes a lot of free time). After moving together I started losing my attraction to her, let the quality and quantity of sex (which was awesome in the first 2 years) go down and I started acting less caring and boring. She started acting bitchy, and calling me boring, and even suspecting me of having an affair, which led to constantly fighting. Where we ended was her leaving saying she needs a break and I begging and pleading and saying that things will change in the future if she decides to stay (I know it should have been no begging and pleading). Also it was me who said if you move back to the dorm we are breaking up.

After analyzing the situation for a month this is a case of auto-rejection combined with me being boring and her feeling unchallenged by me. When leaving she was crying and saying it was an extraordinary relationship but that's it.

From the point where she decided to leave I almost totally ignored her (no social stalking, no messaging, not calling her) I only contacted her once (I called her, she did not respond and called me back), after almost 25 days, asking for a closure, she said it can not see me when I proposed, but she agrees to see me and we will have to decide for another day, but she has not specified when and I have not pursued any further. What would be my best approach? I’m conscious I made some things wrong, I should have done no begging and pleading and also the days before this happening there also was some chasing from my part and trying hard to see how much I changed and I comply to some observations she made (I tried really hard to please her).

 

[ray_zorse]

Can I take it that you want to get back together with her?

Is this really wise? I mean you've acknowledged that you're quite different people -- she likes to spend her time relaxing (and there's nothing really wrong with that, it's just a difference in priorities), whereas you are quite driven. You became frustrated with her, you lost attraction etc. Don't you think after getting back together you'll basically hit the same hump again? What's going to be different this time? Was it a communication problem... or you think you could accept her better for who she is now? Or "fix" her?

I think where you did well was in stating your conditions for continuing the relationship (that it be a live-in relationship) and sticking to them. That's how it should be. Yet, with her having moved out, if you want to continue things then your only real option is to resume dating her, which in my view is a step backwards and something you should not accept. Because basically it lets her "win" if you want to put it that way -- your condition should remain the same, that if she moves back in you're okay to continue with her. On the other hand I don't really see her accepting this. I think that by saying she wanted to move out, she was politely saying she wanted to end the relationship, because it is obvious what would happen -- she'd start partying a bit more with her other friends, getting out more, meeting new people... and eventually have "that talk" with you.

When you realized you fucked up it might have been good to acknowledge this "I realize I have not paid much attention to you lately, and I regret that. Let me make it up to you. Let's go for a weekend away in XXX place." -- women respond well to guys who are honest about their failings, and show a willingness to make them right, yet without supplicating. You say you worked hard to keep her happy, well that's not a bad thing, that's what relationship is about. But if it looked like supplication (just caving to her frame / her unreasonable demands / acknowledging stuff that wasn't true in order to keep her around), then it's bad for you. Especially, the begging would've damaged your frame.

Frame is important -- you can take exactly the same steps (taking her for a weekend away, for example) and frame it differently -- as your giving her a treat, versus your supplicating or trying to "buy her back". So I don't think you did too badly, in fact you did almost everything right, you just didn't pay attention to frame -- how it "looks".

Personally I would "next" her, the problem is you've invested a lot in this girl and you haven't fully given her up mentally, yet there are millions of women out there, and some of them are a much better fit for you -- more driven, will give you more space to follow your interests / ambitions yet appreciate you more in the time you have available for them. Invest your time and effort in some cold approach and start meeting more women, now that you're on GC you have the tools to start improving your skills. This won't be possible in a relationship.

Lastly, about the health of your relationship: it's only healthy if she's chasing and actively investing. So while you might be able to "persuade" her to start things up again, if her heart isn't really in it, it will only be a temporary phase she goes through in getting mentally free of you. So, go and have your coffee etc, but if I were you I'd remain aloof, you can gently probe but if you're really keen to start things up again I would do it like this: Just propose a friendly hangout. Make no move, Build comfort and start hanging out together (one-on-one) but as friends. See if there is really a connection there. If two people are in the same vicinity and there's a connection, something will happen. But build tension; let her invest.

Ray

 

[Arclite]

Thank you for the wise advices Ray, but her leaving me also helped me see some big flaws in myself. The first of that being that I have absolutely no idea of how to communicate in a relationship, she had quite a depression two month ago (caused by me being cold) and every time she opened up (in a complaining and bitchy way) I would tell her that she is complaining to much and shutting her down. Also another thing is I should have moved by myself long time ago, when we moved in together in my flat she was doing most of the chores, and I basically started treating her like my mother (add to this also the fact that I was cold). Also she has a point that sometime I can be quite boring I mean in some days all I do is go to work, go to the gym and go back to sleep. Also I started applying for a driver license, cause even though I am financially quite good I don't have my own car (which I must admit it would have spiced up things a little and would have made me less boring), also I realized I should have moved by myself long time ago, to be used with leaving by myself, doing my own chores, and also the way I started treating her, asking her to shut up each time she was complaining about something is not the way to communicate in a relationship.

 

[ray_zorse]

I see. Well, everything is a learning experience. I think when it comes to communicating in relationships, less is more. Franco has a lot of good advice on this topic. If I have it right then basically it works like this: if there is a problem she will let you know, often by being angry / huffy or engaging in some kind of objectionable behaviour such as criticizing you / putting you down in front of others, cold ignoring, flirting with other guys etc. If you don't know what is causing it, try to figure it out, or just ask her. Then, if you think she is being dramatic and unreasonable, either laugh it off, ignore or even use a soft NEXT (no communication for a period of time, this won't work if you live together of course). OTOH if you feel sge has a reasonable point then debate it with her in a calm way and see if you can reach some middle ground. Just be sure to say something like, "I understand you're upset about XXX. If there is a problem I am happy to discuss it and compromise, but I was hurt when you YYY. I think it's better to handle such problems by ZZZ." If you follow this strategy and never allow her to manipulate your emotions, just being calm and reasonable, and willing to walk away from het if a mutually acceptable compromise cannot be reached... you should be golden. Just never let her push your buttons, you must be absolutely rock solid in your confidence in yourself and your knowledge that whilst you are not immune to making mistakes your intentions were good and you're a good guy. Then sly digs, etc, will roll off you.

I think you may be being overly critical of yourself, you aren't "boring" even if you have to act boring at times to meet your targets. As to the chores well I think there is a right and a wrong way to handle this. I'm not sure if it's a biological fact or a cultural issue or what, but somehow women seem to be good at serving men, especially if they care about him. You've heard the phrase "a woman's touch"... well women can bw very special. They want to make you comfortable, at ease, feel appreciated... they want to save you time and trouble, they feel good if they can improve your life in some way. And they seem more domestic, able to add those little touches that make the difference between a crashing pad and a home. Yet, a lot of white-knight dudes are so bought into equality, etc, that they cannot just let a woman do what she does best, or, worse, like you, they let it happen but feel bad. The trick is to let her invest, and reward her investment.

"Honey I told you not to clean the bathroom, it was my turn and I was going to do it after the gym" vs "Honey I can't believe you already cleaned the bathroom as well as all the other nice things you did for me today, it is absolutely sparkling. You are totally amazing honey, I don't know what I would do without you." ... the second way communicates a lot more basic confidence and belief in yourself, that you are worthy of her investment and that just your presence adds so much value to her life that she is happy to invest in it.

Constantly praise everything she does, no matter how small. Women live for praise, and compliments (her appearance, her accomplishments, her selflessness, etc). This is another basic difference between women and men, men are generally quite uncomfortable with compliments and consider them a big deal, so use them more sparingly with your guy friends and show your appreciation more by your actions, such as making time for them, calling them regularly, helping them with stuff etc. But for women, compliments are part of the normal everyday social grease that makes family and friendships run smoothly. Basically, women are more social and community minded than men. Coplimenting and praising her often confirms her place in the social structure / relationship / etc and makes her feel appreciated... because she is.

Ray

 

[Arclite]

I got a closure meet up. During the discussion I will point the mistakes I made and how I corrected some of them while concluding somehow that I'm OK with her decision and in the process of I moving on (since she is the one who left I don't want to see me hoping). Problem is she will be moving back home in September in case we will not get back together, so I'm kinda under a time constrain also. Also, I am pretty OK to the way acted, I mean I made some mistakes, and now I can clearly see them and I will correct them in the future and for sure not behave this way, again, but at least I have not stalked her, begged her after leaving or blown up her telephone. But even if I have this age is the first time I got a relation going this far, so that is why I consider it understandable to make these mistakes. I will try to keep my calm and randomly try to throw some anchors to the good old times, to see if I can rekindle some positives feelings. Everything other than this the only thing that I can regret and think pulled me down big time was the begging and pleading, it must have dropped my value really big in her eyes (since I never did that), but one month of no contact should also have repaired things somehow.

 

[ray_zorse]

I can only repeat my earlier advice. Appraise whether you want this relationship or whether it is coming from scarcity on your part (I think it is). What you propose sounds very needy and supplicating (also points to scarcity). DON'T. Instead, make it a platonic hangout and see if you actually like each other as friends, rather than as the two sides of a codependent relationship. Let her associate ease and good feelings with you. Avoid ANY relationship talk until you've banged her, which should be so natural and easy it "just happened" -- but you'll need to build significant comfort for such a thing to be possible. If you disregard this advice -- it's not my problem. But please, practice restraint, not emotional vomit! Let her be the one to bring up r/ship talk, but then deflect it saying you don't care, and you just like being w her.
Ray

 

[Arclite]

Thanks both of you for the your replies and advices.

Usually, the people from outside percieve the whole the situation more objectively than the person looking from inside, and maybe the breakup was the right thing to do. But, still it pointed to me that I have some gaps in my personality that I have to fill. Also isn't it normal for the attraction to go down when all you do is see the same person? Also I have to say it was something situational her having more free time than myself, I'm sure the whole thing would have not blown up in less than 4 months.