What should my success rate be?

[randomshinichi]

Hello everybody, I've been reading the main site for a long time now, but I just registered on the board. I started cold approaching two years ago. It was not easy (the ladies in Northern Germany can be quite rude), but a trip to Munich in the south of Germany really helped in calibrating my social approach somehow. For example, now I have a better idea of when she's being polite, and when she's truly interested.

I think Girlschase is written by Americans, is it not? Here social circle is the norm, and cold approaching really raises their Anti Slut Defenses. I get the feeling that in the US cold approaching is more socially accepted than here, but I'm not sure - I can't afford the plane ticket to calibrate myself on that one!

So I'm now at the point where I can be charming enough to get a girl's number most of the time. I'm very good at holding conversation with anybody who will give me the time of the day (that much gives me quite a bit of confidence), awkward pauses are handled by acknowledging them... overall I get them engaged and friendly. Once I get the number and we part, though, that momentum seems to grind to a halt and it seems hard to set up a meeting with them again. I don't think my success rate is good enough, I would say 1 out of every 4 numbers would reply, and the rest will either be friendly and/or silent. Is this normal, or is there a limiting factor somewhere?

In fact I'm getting the feeling that communicating sexual interest in the beginning simply makes them more unlikely to reply to my texts... or perhaps, if I hadn't communicated sexual interest to them, they would simply have put me in the friend zone to begin with and I wouldn't have been able to go anywhere anyway? Perhaps my reputation has been preceding me - after all, 2 years of awkward approaches must get around. I live in a rather small city.

My female friends say that I'm cute and physically attractive, but if that's the case, girls should be jumping at the chance to answer my texts, right? In the first place, should I even trust these words from a female who put me in the friend zone? If I truly were an attractive male, how much more easier should the whole process be?

 

[Light]

Hey Buddy,

Welcome to GC forum.

First of all, forget what girls tell you. You yourself should be in love with yourself, and telling yourself how cute and attractive of a person you are!
So if girls tell you the same thing, take it as a confirmation.

It is more important to Appear Sexually Attractive rather than communicate sexual interest. Women does not friend zone a sexy guy upon first encounter. Let them be the one to show you sexual interest.

I think the problem you may be encountering has to do with the lack of connection you have with her - meaning not enough deep diving, or diving not deep enough.
If she is truly attracted to you by the end of the day, she would definitely want to see you again and would reply enthusiastically. If she isn't, it means she found you to be a good company but not enough connection.

It may also mean you didn't create enough Tension for her. There is a post somewhere on this site about tension.
You need to make her feel uncomfortable... in a comfortable way.

 

[PinotNoir]

Light pretty much has this handled, but I wanted to approach some of these concerns/questions more directly.

Hello everybody, I've been reading the main site for a long time now, but I just registered on the board. I started cold approaching two years ago. It was not easy (the ladies in Northern Germany can be quite rude), but a trip to Munich in the south of Germany really helped in calibrating my social approach somehow. For example, now I have a better idea of when she's being polite, and when she's truly interested.

Just out of curiosity, since I have never been to Germany, what were the problems you faced with girls in the North compared with the South? How are girls different in Northern Germany than in Southern Germany?

I think Girlschase is written by Americans, is it not? Here social circle is the norm, and cold approaching really raises their Anti Slut Defenses. I get the feeling that in the US cold approaching is more socially accepted than here, but I'm not sure - I can't afford the plane ticket to calibrate myself on that one!

I would say this depends on the location and time. In a bar/club, of course women expect to be approached. During the day, I think in most states in the USA girls do not expect it.

Again, I'd ask here what their Anti-Slut Defense is like? Instead of an Anti-Slut Defense, the girl may just be shocked, in a hurry, slightly depressed, etc. I would say that most girls are surprised, but I don't consider this Anti-Slut Defense.

So I'm now at the point where I can be charming enough to get a girl's number most of the time. I'm very good at holding conversation with anybody who will give me the time of the day (that much gives me quite a bit of confidence), awkward pauses are handled by acknowledging them... overall I get them engaged and friendly. Once I get the number and we part, though, that momentum seems to grind to a halt and it seems hard to set up a meeting with them again. I don't think my success rate is good enough, I would say 1 out of every 4 numbers would reply, and the rest will either be friendly and/or silent. Is this normal, or is there a limiting factor somewhere?

I think this is normal starting out, and 25% is actually great odds when I think about it (go outside, point at 4 women, and 1 of them will you give you your number!).

Does success mean a date or just a number? As you progress, switch to "dates" equaling success. And then as you progress more, switch to "kissing within 2 dates" and then to "sex."

I highlighted friendly above, because it sounds like to me that you need to work more on being sexy. Talk slower/deeper. Move slower. You want women to know that you are a man and a sexual one. You have enough friends, and they can't stick you in the friendzone. You are like a shot of Espresso coffee. Women don't come to you when they want a friendly sip of hot tea or some bagels. They come to you because they want hot steam filling their insides and making their heart pound.

In fact I'm getting the feeling that communicating sexual interest in the beginning simply makes them more unlikely to reply to my texts... or perhaps, if I hadn't communicated sexual interest to them, they would simply have put me in the friend zone to begin with and I wouldn't have been able to go anywhere anyway? Perhaps my reputation has been preceding me - after all, 2 years of awkward approaches must get around. I live in a rather small city.

How are you communicating sexual interest? You don't want to be too direct or too indirect. But if you do it right, women will reply.

There's so many articles on this subject that I can't post them all:

https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-flirt-girl
https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-be-sexy-man
https://www.girlschase.com/content/eye-contact-flirting
https://www.girlschase.com/content/7-fac ... women-wild
https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-t ... excitement
https://www.girlschase.com/content/do-th ... attractive
https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-u ... turn-women

My female friends say that I'm cute and physically attractive, but if that's the case, girls should be jumping at the chance to answer my texts, right? In the first place, should I even trust these words from a female who put me in the friend zone? If I truly were an attractive male, how much more easier should the whole process be?

They're not saying sexy.

I think Light is right here with needing deep conversation and tension. On the main website, search for "deep diving," "conversationalist," and "chase frames."

Here are some other articles to read:

https://www.girlschase.com/content/just- ... -known-man
https://www.girlschase.com/content/just- ... -nightmare
https://www.girlschase.com/content/why-it’s-bad-want-be-liked-too-much


randomshinichi, I don't think you're really doing that bad. 1 out of 4 is good You just need to be getting dates. If Southern Germany is a long travel, then just stay close to home; I bet you can figure out your issues there.

And finally, post a Field Report. Do that as soon as possible. I bet the community here can help you figure out why you aren't getting dates or why girls aren't replying.

Good luck! and welcome to the boards.

 

[Marty]

RandomShinichi:

Great to have you here, welcome to the forum and I'm delighted to hear you've been gaining practical experience for 2 years now! I've only been doing it for 8 months, but I'm enjoying it immensely.

Pinot:

Great points you make to RandomShinichi on sexiness... and I concur with your suggestion to post field reports. BUT:

I think this is normal starting out, and 25% is actually great odds when I think about it (go outside, point at 4 women, and 1 of them will you give you her number!).

Yes those would be good stats... but that's not what he's saying. He's not talking about his number-close rate. If you look carefully at what he wrote, I think he meant that OF all the women who give him phone numbers, only 1 in 4 actually respond once he reaches out using the phone number provided.

I can empathize with RandomShinichi here, because I have more or less the same issue: I get about a 30% number-close rate, but of those girls, very few actually pick up the phone when I call. I know they're not phony numbers (I think I've only ever had 2 of those) because their voicemail greeting typically includes their name: "Hi, this is Victoria, please leave me a message". But they don't answer the phone and when I do leave a message, they don't return the call either.

Interested to see what suggestions you and others will post to this thread.

-Marty

 

[randomshinichi]

In Northern Germany: if a girl isn't interested in talking with you, she will either ignore you, give you one word answers, and if wearing earphones, take one side out, answer you, and then put it back in. Especially dangerous are the girls still in high school. They could start giggling uncontrollably, or even roll their eyes if they're not impressed, or give a one word reply in a very rude tone. It's like walking on thin ice with those. University age girls are always more.... normal.
In Southern Germany: I never get ignored. I always get normal answers, but if they're not interested, they simply do not ask you questions to continue the conversation. Basically you will feel like you have to do all the work to float the conversation. I eject then.
Disclaimer: recently I've been getting far less ignores... but I still get them every now and then.

Anti Slut Defense: recently when I asked a girl for her number after building rapport, I said "hey, I'm afraid my friend will be coming any minute now, why don't you give me your number" and she said "no, too soon" (this is a young girl who's never been approached in broad daylight before, of course she's going to feel that everything's happening too soon). Of course I kept on like that was no problem, but in one minute my friend came and I left saying bye to her. In a stroke of good luck, I met her again for 2 minutes with my other friends another day, and after 20 seconds of blabla I said "so are you going to give me your number this time?" she relented.
Her friends weren't there on both occasions. When anti slut defense is built into the woman herself rather than imposed by her friends, and hinders her own natural urges (because I know she finds me at least intriguing), what can I do?

Deep diving and rapport: my conversations mostly go like Craig Ferguson's interviews. You say to dive deeper, but I've found that after some point you just kinda hit a defense wall, which is to be expected the first time you meet someone. I met one person who was willing to let me dive very deep, and that one was an old man, the father of a chick I was trying to get (got extra brownie points for that one). Once, a girl commented that conversation with me was "like an interview". I'm not sure if that's a compliment or not, since I do model my interactions after Ferguson, but I think that in order to increase the feeling of intimacy with a person you've just met, after a point deep diving is not as important as being able to say "we had a great, relaxed time together and we laughed a lot". Because to be honest, if someone came up to me and deep dived me, after some point I would be like "hey, what's going on?" and implement a wall.

Although, of course, perhaps the wall only comes up because they're thinking "hey, what's going on here?". In which case, I'm probably not coming off sexual enough. I thought that the fact that I approached them and my eye contact would make things clear...

Thanks for the tips! Will be back...

 

[Light]

Don't fall into the trap most beginners make when deep diving.

There is a difference between Information Digging and actually Relating to the person.

The person will feel like you are interviewing them if you are not relating to what she is telling you. For example if she tells you that she loves to travel, you should also tell her where you have travelled to and how great that makes you feel. Deep Diving involves a lot of relating and sharing with each other.

The tricky bit is obviously to not talk more than her and to remain mysterious still. She should be sharing 70% of her story compared to you relating to roughly around 30% of the conversation. So make sure you do it right.

 

[PinotNoir]

Yes those would be good stats... but that's not what he's saying. He's not talking about his number-close rate. If you look carefully at what he wrote, I think he meant that OF all the women who give him phone numbers, only 1 in 4 actually respond once he reaches out using the phone number provided.

I can empathize with RandomShinichi here, because I have more or less the same issue: I get about a 30% number-close rate, but of those girls, very few actually pick up the phone when I call. I know they're not phony numbers (I think I've only ever had 2 of those) because their voicemail greeting typically includes their name: "Hi, this is Victoria, please leave me a message". But they don't answer the phone and when I do leave a message, they don't return the call either.

Interested to see what suggestions you and others will post to this thread.

-Marty

To be honest, I still don't think that's that bad of odds. Let's imagine you get 4 numbers a day. With 1 out of 4 odds, that's 7 women that respond per week. Of those 7, maybe you get 3 dates. That's not too bad starting out. It reminds me of this picture:

So no matter how low your numbers are, you're still beating all of the guys not even trying.

Of course, I don't mean to gloss over your question/concern. I have that same concern, and I think you should post a separate thread so that more advanced members chime in.

But for beginners, 1 out of 4 isn't bad.

However, you should be progressing, and I think that's the real concern. If I'm following all of the advice from Chase, why are my odds not progressing? What am I doing wrong where girls always respond 30% of the time, and it's not improving?

Marty, I've read a lot of your posts, and you do better than me, so I don't know the answer to this question. But, I do know what I have done in the past 2 years differently that has improved my responses:

1.) You have to create some type of connection/commonality during conversation when you meet them. You need to stand out in some way. With one girl, the conversation lead to me asking her what instrument she would play if could play any instrument, and I gave the suggestions of didgeridoo, harp, or piano; she said that she had never been asked that before, and I think that made me stand out, and we ended up bonding over similar musical artists.

2.) #1 is not easy if you're in a rush or just can't find common ground. With girls where a connection was not made, I think it's especially important to send a text within 1-2 hours after meeting her, or maybe even sooner! Even if you make a connection, I think sending a text that day is important, which leads me to....

3.) I try not to call, and I focus on texting (because it's easy, and girls are more likely to respond). If we're texting and something doesn't seem right, I will then text, "Want to talk on the phone some time? When are you free to talk?" Then we can talk on the phone and build rapport. GC has a article on this: you don't want to be chasing a girl by constantly trying to call her, just text and ask when she's free to talk on the phone. The same concept is true for when setting up the date: ask for what days she is free.

3.a.) The text needs to follow Chase's article on texting. I pretty much always follow that template on the initial text. "Hi <Her Name>, <interesting thing> <question>. --<My Name>." If you can at all, I suggest making it relate to whatever you talked about or to how you met, and try using unique words. "Evening Sarah, meeting passionate ladies like yourself is what makes Starbucks worth the high price tag! Did they hire you to lure poor men inside? I enjoyed a rather strange drink this morning at a local coffee joint.... -Pinot" This isn't my best haha, but just an example. The last statement builds intrigue ("What drink did he have? Now, I have to text him and ask") and overall the text is just light-hearted. I think you want your text to break the ice in a light-hearted way and to build intrigue a bit so that she has to text you back, and adding interesting words is like the cherry on top. What makes you different than all of the other guys?

4.) If she doesn't reply to the text in #3 after 4-7 days (depending on how long you can hold out), then read the GC articles on calling. Before calling, expect either a person or voicemail, so plan out what you'll say for either. At this point, it will most likely be voicemail; therefore, get that deep, slow voice working before you call. To be honest, I haven't done enough voicemails to know what works, but I think an important key is sounding friendly/warm/carefree (i.e., not creepy). This may be like, "Hey Deborah, this is Pinot from the coffee shop. I think you ordered... the Espresso, so if you regularly drink like that... I assume you're crashed in bed right now or at a Rave. (Slight pseudo-laugh in voice.) Either way, I'd love to find out about the type of person that drinks such things. If you're free this week, text or call me back, and we'll have fun together. Have a good night."


I think I also remember you posting about meeting young girls. So, age could be an issue. I usually like girls that are my age or a little older, so that added maturity/experience may just be the answer.

Also, girls will give their # out like candy. It's not really a big deal to them. The only thing lower is Facebook/Email. If a girl will only offer Facebook/Email, forget that. If you get the feeling that the girl is just being nice, then persist on talking with her more. If she says "Hey, sorry, I need to go see blah and blah," then just say, "Hey, wait one second, I have just one last quick question." This is like a Hail Mary. Obviously, you don't want to be rude, but persistence is important, and it's different.

If none of this helps, I think you'll have to make a new post And hopefully the advanced guys will help.

 

[PinotNoir]

In Northern Germany: if a girl isn't interested in talking with you, she will either ignore you, give you one word answers, and if wearing earphones, take one side out, answer you, and then put it back in. Especially dangerous are the girls still in high school. They could start giggling uncontrollably, or even roll their eyes if they're not impressed, or give a one word reply in a very rude tone. It's like walking on thin ice with those. University age girls are always more.... normal.

I think this is doable. But if Southern Germany is not inconvenient for you, then keep going South.

I think your problem here is persistence!

persist-your-insistence
why-chasing-women-doesn’t-work-and-why-persistence-does

Also, work on not being affected by anything. If a girl giggles or uses a rude tone, just smile back and continue like nothing happened.

EDIT: NJ just wrote a great article related to this: https://www.girlschase.com/content/why-d ... nant-males

Giggling and being rude is also a sign of being nervous, and most likely a sign of immaturity/inexperience in these cases with high schoolers. When I was in high school, I had girls laugh at me or be rude to me, and then after a couple of years I found out that they had liked me! Don't take it at face value. With women, base things on actions/results. Even if she giggles, ask her out or keep trying to talk with her and see what happens.

In Southern Germany: I never get ignored. I always get normal answers, but if they're not interested, they simply do not ask you questions to continue the conversation. Basically you will feel like you have to do all the work to float the conversation. I eject then.

Yes, I get girls that don't ask questions back, but this still doesn't mean she's not interested. She again may be nervous. I know that it doesn't logically make sense, but trust me. Even if girls do this, ask them on a date anyway; what do you have to lose?

Anti Slut Defense: recently when I asked a girl for her number after building rapport, I said "hey, I'm afraid my friend will be coming any minute now, why don't you give me your number" and she said "no, too soon" (this is a young girl who's never been approached in broad daylight before, of course she's going to feel that everything's happening too soon).

Yes, this resistance will occur, especially with younger girls like you say.

Things you can say:

"Yes, it may be too soon, but I also may never see you again. Imagine if fate brought us together. How are we going to meet or talk again if we don't exchange phone numbers?"

or

"Oh, too soon to just hang out as friends? I think this is how it starts. Strangers meet each other. Then they hang out as friends... right? So, no harm. We'll just go ice skating or something fun. "

Basically, it's okay to pull back and try and treat it as a friendship if a girl says this. But then if you ever go out with her, it has to be one-on-one. Even if it's just a "friend" thing, make it one-on-one. Then after hanging out once or twice, ask her on a date. This is kind of slow game, but may be necessary for high school girls.

Deep diving and rapport: my conversations mostly go like Craig Ferguson's interviews. You say to dive deeper, but I've found that after some point you just kinda hit a defense wall, which is to be expected the first time you meet someone. I met one person who was willing to let me dive very deep, and that one was an old man, the father of a chick I was trying to get (got extra brownie points for that one). Once, a girl commented that conversation with me was "like an interview". I'm not sure if that's a compliment or not, since I do model my interactions after Ferguson, but I think that in order to increase the feeling of intimacy with a person you've just met, after a point deep diving is not as important as being able to say "we had a great, relaxed time together and we laughed a lot". Because to be honest, if someone came up to me and deep dived me, after some point I would be like "hey, what's going on?" and implement a wall.

Although, of course, perhaps the wall only comes up because they're thinking "hey, what's going on here?". In which case, I'm probably not coming off sexual enough. I thought that the fact that I approached them and my eye contact would make things clear...

Thanks for the tips! Will be back...

Read Light's reply on this. You need to connect and to sometimes share stuff about yourself. It should be like to 60-70% her and 40-50% you, so you still talk sometimes.

Also, you don't want to stay in the deep end. As Chase calls it, you want to crest; you want to go deep, shallow, deep, shallow, etc. If it gets too deep, add in a light joke to come up for air. If the conversation feels to shallow and superficial, ask about something more meaningful.

 

[TheWiseFool]

"Oh, too soon to just hang out as friends? I think this is how it starts. Strangers meet each other. Then they hang out as friends... right? So, no harm. We'll just go ice skating or something fun. "

Basically, it's okay to pull back and try and treat it as a friendship if a girl says this. But then if you ever go out with her, it has to be one-on-one. Even if it's just a "friend" thing, make it one-on-one. Then after hanging out once or twice, ask her on a date. This is kind of slow game, but may be necessary for high school girls.

Don't mind me, just saving this post for my own future reference

Great advice guys. I'm learning a lot!
- TWF