What to do when a guy keeps setting frames for you?

[Improvementalist]

I've at times encountered these instances when a guy keeps framing things for me.

For example, he may address a compliment for a woman (beauty, style etc.), but instead of making it a genuine compliment for her, he leaves it in the air as a question mark, and gives it for me to finish.

An example:

Me and Roger [name changed] are discussing about various things. Kate has accompanied us and is browsing her phone, uninterested in the conversation. The topic changes into clothing and style, and me and Roger comment each others choice of clothings.

Roger: You may be right that I do have a fine set of clothes here, but don't you, [my name] agree that Kate is the real beauty here?

Me: [noticing the frame, so not going too deep with the answer] Well, of course. [Glancing at Kate from tip to toe. She answers to my glance and fixes her position, as if trying to look more proper]


This is not the first of instances Roger has done this. Maybe he's socially aware and was trying to bring Kate into the conversation - or maybe he was really setting a frame for me. All in all, I don't really like when a man sets these frames for me to make. It's as if I'm not setting them too often or as if I'm bad at them, so he tries to "help" me, but the only thing he does is to worsen the situation, and risking me to look weak. But of course, by me looking more weak he looks more strong.

First, I like doing my own frames, making my own sets (Sometimes all it takes is a good glance from tip to toe with an approving look that is needed to tell the girl that I like her style and think she's beautiful). Second, Roger doesn't know if I'm willing to compliment a girl - has the girl in person earned my approval and compliments?
It just makes things look forced an unnatural, like "You go now and say a compliment to her, [my name]."



It's almost like in the instance when this other guy was dancing around a small group of women in the middle of a bar. He was really knowing his moves, swinging the girls and all that. Suddenly he stepped out of the spotlight, grabbed me and hauled me to his group. At that point I didn't think that much of it but thought it was a bit awkward. A few minutes later I saw that he had grabbed the prettiest girl of the dancing group and had left the dancing ring for me to "hold". Once I had enough and stepped off, the remaining girls in the group vanished and left.

This was before Girlschase, but now when I look at it, I simply notice that he gained some social power by grabbing me to his ring. "The more the merrier", and by gaining a male member in his group, he strenghtened his alpha position in the group. He was the alpha, I was the beta. Finally, it was easier for him to leave the group with the petite girl, when there was a guy to leave the control to.


But enough of the dance instance, any hints on how to answer with these instances of framings (see case Roger) - or am I doing it right here, by just remaining neutral and not grabbing the given frame too deeply?

 

[lao che]

so just off the top of my head, as i was reading, the answer, or how i would respond to the awkward situation you described, would be rather than answer his question i would deflect as such - "be careful kate, looks like roger's got his eye on you *wink wink*" and put the pressure back on him. from there i would probably just smoothly move onto another topic but you could totally have fun with this taking it up a level, putting your arm around roger in a big-brotherly fashion and telling him how smooth and silver-tongued he is, maybe pat him on the head "he's so cute, isn't he, kate?" a taste of his own medicine might make him think twice about trying to put you in your place again

the dance thing i got no answer for. i hate that actually. both situations you describe are pretty obvious ruses to try and put you on the spot and make him look higher value than yourself. not cool. i often wonder if girls can see through it as it seems so clear, but probably not.

anyway, the dance thing could be swung to your advantage by just smoothly picking off the prettiest remaining girl and moving to the bar for a drink, something like that.

these are situations for me where i can crush or be crushed depending on my frame of mind/mood at the time

 

[daviddreamer]

Like Lao Che said, you just have to out-frame him pretty much.

For example....

Roger: You may be right that I do have a fine set of clothes here, but don't you, [my name] agree that Kate is the real beauty here?

Me: [noticing the frame, so not going too deep with the answer] Well, of course. [Glancing at Kate from tip to toe. She answers to my glance and fixes her position, as if trying to look more proper]

What you could of done instead: Disagreed with Roger, said something sarcastic, been playful with Roger or Kate.

Anything but weakly agree with Roger....

 

[pickupq123]

I don't know how well you know Kate, but if she was a semi-close friend I would have just teased her/been sarcastic with the situation.

Roger: You may be right that I do have a fine set of clothes here, but don't you, [my name] agree that Kate is the real beauty here?
Me: I dunno... These ties (or shirts or whatever) look pretty nice! (said with a sly smile/grin)

or if you don't know her that well...

Me: *quickly looking over to her* Yeah she looks nice, *looking back to the clothes* but these clothes though... DAMN!

etc.

 

[lao che]

Roger: "You may be right that I do have a fine set of clothes here, but don't you, [my name] agree that Kate is the real beauty here?"
me: " i dunno, kate's alright, but she got dem crazy eyes"

roger a: "what are you talking about? kate's beautiful!" (weak)

roger b: "yeah kate has crazy eyes, hahaha" (following)

 

[Improvementalist]

Thanks for all your answers! I really appreciate them!

so just off the top of my head, as i was reading, the answer, or how i would respond to the awkward situation you described, would be rather than answer his question i would deflect as such - "be careful kate, looks like roger's got his eye on you *wink wink*" and put the pressure back on him. from there i would probably just smoothly move onto another topic but you could totally have fun with this taking it up a level, putting your arm around roger in a big-brotherly fashion and telling him how smooth and silver-tongued he is, maybe pat him on the head "he's so cute, isn't he, kate?" a taste of his own medicine might make him think twice about trying to put you in your place again

the dance thing i got no answer for. i hate that actually. both situations you describe are pretty obvious ruses to try and put you on the spot and make him look higher value than yourself. not cool. i often wonder if girls can see through it as it seems so clear, but probably not.

anyway, the dance thing could be swung to your advantage by just smoothly picking off the prettiest remaining girl and moving to the bar for a drink, something like that.

these are situations for me where i can crush or be crushed depending on my frame of mind/mood at the time

The thing is, I more or less know all three of these persons. Kate, Roger and the dancer guy. I've had many conversations with the dancer guy, and have been to eating with him. All in all these three are at least acquaintances of mine.



So when I realized what was really going on, I was kind of offended - for example I befriend the dancer guy, and still he tries to put me into a lower guy-position, not treating me equally.

There's one last story, and this is more on the topic of "social microhierarchy" than on putting and handling frames.


So I was at this one house party, where Roger, Kate and a couple of other girls were at.
There were two sofas, one larger which could hold around 4 persons, and one which could hold two persons.

I arrived early, so Roger, Kate and Roger's girlfriend were already there.
As I conversated with Roger (Kate was visiting the kitchen), he said:

"Damn, it's really a bit boring here.."

1. He indicated that he was waiting for the rest of the girls to come
or
2. He indicated that chatting with me was a friggin' chore to do

I replied,
"Well I'm sure you'll brighten up once rest of the girls show up."
[Naturally not complying with him and making me look dumb in the process]

Well, the rest of the girls arrived and the evening started, so to speak. I noticed that I had picked quite a good spot - right in the center of the largest sofa, so now there were at least one girl on each of my sides. I had good space to chat with each of them.
I was a bit worried whether it was okay for Kate to be "cut off" from the rest of the girls by my place at the sofa.

I went to visit the toilet, and once I returned, what would you know, Roger had taken my place.
But there was one other thing. Kate had moved sitting on the floor in front of the sofa, making room for me to sit once I would return from the toilet.
Well, I didn't want to take Roger's spot at the side sofa, next to his girlfriend, so I just sat next to him, mildly irritated by his antics (but not showing it).

I really wanted to say to Roger,
"I know you want to be in the spotlight here - but look at this. Kate's sitting on the floor now, and your girlfriend's sitting over there all alone, looking unsatisfied. You took her with you here, so now just go and make her comfortable."
Of course I didn't say it, but it didn't take long for Roger to visit the toilet too - once he returned, he went to his original position, next to his girlfriend.

It took some time for Kate to get up from the floor, but eventually she returned sitting next to me at the sofa, although she made some space, not sitting quite close to me.

Roger and his girlfriend were quite silent for the rest of the evening. I don't actually understand these "bringing a guy-/girlfriend to social circles whom he/she is unknown to". Maybe it's just showing off, I don't know, but I wouldn't do it, because I'm quite sure it always feels like being a complete outsider at these evenings for these "outsiders". Oh well..


But yeah, here was the story. I know it's a bit "too analytical", but it's interesting to at least speculate of the different things happening in the background when people communicate and hang out with each other.

 

[Drck]

Why is he your friend if you don't like his comments and behavior?

IMO it is always difficult if you are after some girl in social circle. Too much work, too much fighting for dominant position (e.g. sitting in sofa as you described). If you want the girl you should seporate her from the crowd. Don't take her to the party, take her where only you and her can be alone. By doing that you will simply avoid all the headache

Anyway, it depends on what you want with that particular girl and what is your confidence/experience level.

Say you want Kate to be just friends:
Roger: Do you agree that Kate is the real beauty here?
You: Of course she is, why wouldn't she be?
Or thousands of other responses. It doesn't really matter what you say since she is just a friend.

Say you want Kate and you want to "fight" Roger's comment because he is annoying:
Roger: Do you agree that Kate is the real beauty here?
You: Of course she is, are you going to do anything about it?
This way you kinda threw it back at him, and assuming that he is not experienced he will most likely pull back, meaning he is not going to do anything about it. Now he has to answer infront of her what he's going to do with her - and then he has to do it otherwise he will appear as weak, just a talker. But it is kind of aggressive, too negative, I wouldn't probably "fight" his comment like that

Say you want Kate and you want to "use" Roger's comment in your benefit:
Roger: Do you agree that Kate is the real beauty here?
You: Of course she is, and I was just thinking about inviting just her to go to XYZ (while looking at her)
This way it is more fluent, you don't fight against Roger but you use his comment to push things with her forward. Now you are showing some balls, you want to do things with her, you want to take her places. At the same time you are disregarding Roger because it is just you and her, he is not important. If she is interested she will go. Why wouldn't she...?

 

[Improvementalist]

Say you want Kate to be just friends:
Roger: Do you agree that Kate is the real beauty here?
You: Of course she is, why wouldn't she be?
Or thousands of other responses. It doesn't really matter what you say since she is just a friend.

Say you want Kate and you want to "fight" Roger's comment because he is annoying:
Roger: Do you agree that Kate is the real beauty here?
You: Of course she is, are you going to do anything about it?
This way you kinda threw it back at him, and assuming that he is not experienced he will most likely pull back, meaning he is not going to do anything about it. Now he has to answer infront of her what he's going to do with her - and then he has to do it otherwise he will appear as weak, just a talker. But it is kind of aggressive, too negative, I wouldn't probably "fight" his comment like that

Say you want Kate and you want to "use" Roger's comment in your benefit:
Roger: Do you agree that Kate is the real beauty here?
You: Of course she is, and I was just thinking about inviting just her to go to XYZ (while looking at her)
This way it is more fluent, you don't fight against Roger but you use his comment to push things with her forward. Now you are showing some balls, you want to do things with her, you want to take her places. At the same time you are disregarding Roger because it is just you and her, he is not important. If she is interested she will go. Why wouldn't she...?

I simply have to thumbs up for your answer here, of how you constructed it to these different, great examples.

Oh, and I'm not done here.

Why is he your friend if you don't like his comments and behavior?

IMO it is always difficult if you are after some girl in social circle. Too much work, too much fighting for dominant position (e.g. sitting in sofa as you described). If you want the girl you should seporate her from the crowd. Don't take her to the party, take her where only you and her can be alone. By doing that you will simply avoid all the headache

Anyway, it depends on what you want with that particular girl and what is your confidence/experience level.

This can be converted to a larger question of "Why am I keeping friends or even acquaintances, whom behave in ways that do not satisfy me?"

The answer to this is, "Sometimes you really can't choose your friends - or in this case, acquaintances.". These can be work colleaques or other people. You try to get along with them because you want social contacts (no one wants to be all alone - even me, though I enjoy my occasional solitude), but eventually you notice that it's no use. These are not the kind of guys who will ask you for a friendly coffee or for a pint at the local.
The best I can do is to simply try to get along with them. Trying to go head to head will just earn me a bad reputation.

IMO it is always difficult if you are after some girl in social circle. Too much work, too much fighting for dominant position (e.g. sitting in sofa as you described). If you want the girl you should seporate her from the crowd. Don't take her to the party, take her where only you and her can be alone. By doing that you will simply avoid all the headache

Anyway, it depends on what you want with that particular girl and what is your confidence/experience level.

Oh how I do know what you are writing about here.

I realized this spring that I've been shrinking my own dating pool.
I wanted to have someone from my study circles. I wanted to have someone who would share my views of the world, share my passions.
Too bad I realized that half of them are unavailable, and half of those available ones are the ones that create attraction in me. And half of those that create attraction do actually seem down to date-kind of persons. And no - these persons do not necessarily share the same world views as I, nor do they necessarily share the same passions. So I'm wrong in there too.

After this there's only a few of them left. But even then there's the problems these girls may have, which are related to the fear of losing face or rumours spreading, because social university/college circles with their rules. And even if these girls may be attracted to me, they certainly wont show it, due to problems mentioned just a moment ago. Not mentioning the competing males.

This is what I'm completely full of. Just reading my newest OR (The stall girl) gives me a good reminder that there are beautiful young women who are attracted to me, and who are actually willing to show it to me in order to get me initiating them.


Anyways, thank you once again Drck. Appreciate it deeply!