FR What to Text Back & Post Date Analysis

[michaelnew321]

Thanks to Chase and everyone else in this community...lots of help so far just from articles and reading forum posts.

Background: met this girl in pasta aisle at grocery store on a Saturday. I was telling her she shouldn't buy Ragu sauce cause it's disgusting...teasing her that she had bad taste...small talk, got her #, discussed going out Thurs night.

Few hours later I texted: "Hey ____, was random but cool meeting you earlier. Are you always so friendly to new people?" She responded "haha not always, only if they're Spanish " (we had talked about my background)

Tuesday I texted
Me: I saw the cutest little squirrel today, made me think of you

Her: Haha squirrels are pretty cute, how's your week going?

Me: Good but can always use some spice...maybe you know an Italian girl who fits that description Thurs may end up working, how's drinks at 7?

Her: Yea, I probably could think of someone, I'll bring her Thursday, and seven works!

Me: Cool lets meet at ____bar____ on ___some street____ - don't forget the spice

Her: Hmm would you mind going to _____ instead? It's a similar vibe, they have pool and games and stuff. Or _____ ?

Me: Is (my first suggestion) like the ghetto...you scared, little Italian girl? (first suggestion) has places around in walking distance...cool bar/cafe nearby too. If it sucks you can smack me wherever you'd like

Her: I’ve been to (my first suggestion), honestly, it’s really just not my scene

Next Day I text: "hope your bar choice is better than your pasta sauce choice" - she responded "such a charmer...see you thurs!"

Date:
Met at bar, sat at a booth...usual small talk, sitting across from each other. found out shes very busy (law student. 25 yrs old), rarely goes out, lives alone. Bounced her to a 2nd bar, more low key...we drove there in my car together, about 3 min away. My place was also about 3 min away from first venue, and on the car ride over to 2nd venue i said "hey my place is right down there, we could just go drink some wine and chill there." she said "id rather stay in public" or something. I said cool lets check out this 2nd bar then.

got there, sat side by side...kino. she was smiling the whole time, laughing, etc...grabbed her and kissed her...we made out twice for a bit..asked for check. led back to car, kissed her more. said "i say we go back to my place and have some wine/chill some more, the night is young (it was not even 10pm). she said she was getting tired...i pushed some more, kissed her again, etc...tried this maybe 3 times. just kept saying its so early and we're both having fun, lets keep it going (like Chase advised almost to a T), if we leave now we may not see each other again etc. no budge...one time she said "thats what 2nd dates are for." i mentioned i wasnt looking for anything serious in response to this.

so dropped her at her car, wished her goodnight...thats about it.

So I texted day after date around 4pm "Hey ____ (nickname I gave her), had a good time last night, even though we couldnt hear each other half the time" (bar was loud as shit)

No response.

Question...when she objected to going back to my place, i just continued to the 2nd venue...at 2nd venue, we kissed some. then in my car after leaving ithe 2nd venue, kissed a bit more. I then suggested going back to my place and she said she was tired etc... So heres the question, is it ever OK to just drive to my place and lead her in? Or should I always be saying lets go back and let her respond. Should I ever be like "I know this cool place" and just show up at my place? How do you guys handle this stuff. I'm asking cause I do think she was into me but i didnt execute the question part correctly or lead her correctly back to my place. I messed up somewhere, i can feel it

I texted earlier today, now on Tuesday:

Hey... Hope I didn't scare you, sometimes I'm too confident and you're a bit shy. I'd see you again but I have no plans for anything serious. Everyone prob thinks you're this sweet innocent girl but I know there's way more there

She replied 20 min later:
Hey, it’s fine you didn’t scare me. I’ve been busy the last few days and I just think we are looking for different things right now. While I’m not necessarily looking to jump into a serious relationship, I don’t really want casual either - I just think that gets complicated. I’m kind of just doing my own thing right now.

Any thoughts of what to say here? I was up front, not looking for serious stuff but I'm not entirely closed to a gf at some point. Any suggestions for basically saying I'm down to chill and see how stuff goes and to get her out/over my place with avoiding antislut defense etc? Tips in general about how I handled this beginning to end are appreciated. Is this one dead in the water or somehow can push more?

 

[Fuck This]

Based on her thought of your original venue there may be a bit of a difference in values. Sounds to me you handled it fine.

Otherwise she would have bailed before the second venue. My approach would be to be understanding and leave the ball in her court.

"Hey I totally understand, Law school has to be your #1 priority. When you need a distraction or a chance to unwind , let me know. Until next time, "

You are leaving the option open for her while you continue on with your life. You also are showing you value her ultimate goal of a law degree. If there is a specific test or exam or project she mentions, refer to it as in. "When you wrap up that presentation and are ready to celebrate, I'll buy the first round while you tell me all about it."

 

[michaelnew321]

Based on her thought of your original venue there may be a bit of a difference in values. Sounds to me you handled it fine.

Otherwise she would have bailed before the second venue. My approach would be to be understanding and leave the ball in her court.

"Hey I totally understand, Law school has to be your #1 priority. When you need a distraction or a chance to unwind , let me know. Until next time, "

You are leaving the option open for her while you continue on with your life. You also are showing you value her ultimate goal of a law degree. If there is a specific test or exam or project she mentions, refer to it as in. "When you wrap up that presentation and are ready to celebrate, I'll buy the first round while you tell me all about it."

Thanks for the feedback and response.

Anyone else have thoughts or opinions on the above...specifically 1) how I handled trying to get her back to my place (and her resistance/response) and 2) how to respond to her last text in the best way to potentially leave something open for us (if this is not dead in the water...I cant really tell if her text is essentially closing the door on anything in the future).

 

[michaelnew321]

Would appreciate some help/analysis from some of the advanced members/mods...thats why I'm here

 

[Mr.Rob]

Michael great report brother!

A few notes.

Her: Hmm would you mind going to _____ instead? It's a similar vibe, they have pool and games and stuff. Or _____ ?

Me: Is (my first suggestion) like the ghetto...you scared, little Italian girl? (first suggestion) has places around in walking distance...cool bar/cafe nearby too. If it sucks you can smack me wherever you'd like

Her: I’ve been to (my first suggestion), honestly, it’s really just not my scene

Next Day I text: "hope your bar choice is better than your pasta sauce choice" - she responded "such a charmer...see you thurs!"

This is really interesting text exchange. I don't understand why she suggested to go to a different place, its almost as if she wants to be in control of the interaction rather than submitting to your lead (unless the place you originally picked does suck).

I personally wouldn't have submitted to her choosing the venue as it puts her in a leading position and you being the submissive party. You can tell from the last two text exchanges that your last text response is a bit bitter and her last response is almost as if she's happy she won.

I'm not really one much with text game so take this with a grain of salt but I would've texted her back like this:

Her: Hmm would you mind going to _____ instead? It's a similar vibe, they have pool and games and stuff. Or _____ ?

Me: No, I'm going to xyz bar with or without you and I would like to invite you along with me. If xyz bar is really not for you I'd be open to going to other abc bar (abc bar has good logistics). Would you like to go to xyz or abc?

I wouldn't let her choose the venue, that's just not my style.

Moving forward.

My place was also about 3 min away from first venue, and on the car ride over to 2nd venue i said "hey my place is right down there, we could just go drink some wine and chill there." she said "id rather stay in public" or something. I said cool lets check out this 2nd bar then.

So here you have to make a judgement call based on her "vital" signs. You seem pretty socially attuned based off your report here so I'm guessing that you can read signs of attraction. I would make the decision to invite her home in this situation, being this early into the date, based on how attracted she is to you and how willing she is to invest in your lead.

In my experience you can pull rather fast with girls that are really attracted to you and with girls that invest in your lead and readily give you compliance (she submits to you asking for compliance).

Do note that the reason she didn't agree to come over the first time you asked was because it was too overt and it would've made her look too easy. (She's agreeing to go back to your house and she knows what that means). Thus you could say "oh by the way I have to let my dog out real quick before we go to the next bar". Or better yet just leave things ambiguous "oh by the way I have to show this epic place around the corner. (CHANGE SUBJECT) So I just got on Obama Care and I'm getting multiple surgeries I don't actually need so I can take advantage of the program benefits"

If she goes along with the subject you just changed to and doesn't persist in wondering where you're going you are golden.

got there, sat side by side...kino. she was smiling the whole time, laughing, etc...grabbed her and kissed her...we made out twice for a bit..asked for check. led back to car, kissed her more. said "i say we go back to my place and have some wine/chill some more, the night is young (it was not even 10pm). she said she was getting tired...i pushed some more, kissed her again, etc...tried this maybe 3 times. just kept saying its so early and we're both having fun, lets keep it going (like Chase advised almost to a T), if we leave now we may not see each other again etc. no budge...one time she said "thats what 2nd dates are for." i mentioned i wasnt looking for anything serious in response to this.

so dropped her at her car, wished her goodnight...thats about it.

A few notes on this one.

1. Kissing her in public.... NO!
This kills all the intrigue, shows all your cards, and she knows exactly what is going to happen next (sex). Of course she's not going to go home with you! (she can't look like a slut)

On dates I will typically never kiss a girl until I get her back to my place. I will physically escalate on her, bite her neck playfully, and maybe give her a small peck on the lips but I will never make out with a girl unless we are at the sex location.

If you would've just escalated on this girl physically in the bar and then invited her home without kissing/making out with her you probably would've had it in the bag.

2. Rewarding her resistance... NO!

I learned this from Drexel Scott on the boards here. When a girl is putting up resistance to complying with you and you continue to kiss her, feel her up, and validate her then you're shooting yourself in the foot.

This is basic operant conditioning. Pavlov's dogs. If instead you reward her investment (with touch, validation, kisses) and withdraw yourself when she doesn't comply (stop touching her, stop kissing, etc) then she'll be much more eager to invest into you the way you would want her to.

These days if I'm making out with a girl and I go to take her clothes off and she puts up resistance I withdraw myself completely and just talk to her without touching her at all. It has been quite effective since I've started doing this. It communicates your expectations and that you're not going to go through hours and hours and hours of LMR to get laid.

Derek at RSD says when he pulls girls and get's into his car to take them home and they say "I'm not that kind of girl" he looks them in the eyes and tells them "Well I'm that type of guy" and lets them make the decision to come with him or not. He says sometimes they don't come with him and that's totally fine he merely screened out a girl that is going to take up his time.

is it ever OK to just drive to my place and lead her in?

YESS!!!! Just do it dominantly and without hesitation. Also you must be perfectly fine with her not wanting to come in. Your attitude when you lead her to your door is that you're going to either bring her in a fuck her brains out or she going to fuck off and you're going to watch the most epic porno of your life and be equally happy with either outcome.

Hey... Hope I didn't scare you, sometimes I'm too confident and you're a bit shy. I'd see you again but I have no plans for anything serious. Everyone prob thinks you're this sweet innocent girl but I know there's way more there

She replied 20 min later:
Hey, it’s fine you didn’t scare me. I’ve been busy the last few days and I just think we are looking for different things right now. While I’m not necessarily looking to jump into a serious relationship, I don’t really want casual either - I just think that gets complicated. I’m kind of just doing my own thing right now.

Yeah your done on this one.

Don't apologize or mention any logical relationship dynamics. The fact that you are bringing up relationship dynamics shows you're overthinking it. I would just text her normally as you have been.

Her response is evidence you're probably dead in the water.

So in summary you seem like you have you game on point but you just need to fine tune a few of your operations strategies and hard rules for dealing with women.

In the future I would always be in control of the logistics of your dates, I would quit rewarding bad behavior that you do not like, and I would stop kissing girls anywhere other than the location you want to have sex in.

Comments, questions, or concerns?

Keep it pimpin

-Rob

 

[Mr.Rob]

Hey man one other thing I would note real quick:

hey my place is right down there, we could just go drink some wine and chill there.

If you wanted to pull her here instead of asking this as a question you would need to say it as a statement to get her to come along. This is equivalent to saying "Hey my place is right down there, we could exchange oral sex and I could be penetrating you in less than 10 minutes. Would you be down for that?"

Her: "Fuck no! I'm not a slut!!"

Remember that a woman's greatest fear is being perceived as a slut and it's your responsibility as the man to not allow her to perceive herself as such. Also it's your job as the man to LEAD. This means in high pressure situations such as this you make a decision and do not ask for input.

Example

You: Hey I feel really comfortable around you I think I would consider keeping you around.
Her: Hah! Oh yeah
You: Yeah I'm going to kidnap you for a week and try you out as my next concubine. My current one has become a total drag to put up with. Here let's go kick that hoe out right now!
Her: hahaha what, where are you taking me!
You: It's all good its just right around the corner and then we'll be gone... so anyway (Change Subject)

As aforementioned if she doesn't push you further to find out where you're taking her then she's playing along with the role play (she's probably either very attracted to you and wants you to move things towards sex OR she's heavy into complying with you and she's open to the idea of complying into you further... perhaps into sex even).

If she does push you further to find out where you're taking her then you need to be direct with her and tell her that you're taking her to your house. I would tell her that we are going for sex but if you don't want to be that hardcore just tell her the truth that it'd be much more enjoyable to not pay for drinks, listen to our favorite music, and be in a more comfortable atmosphere.

Again be prepared for her not to be down with this and be fine dropping her back off if this is the case. Making these moves is a high risk, high reward and in my opinion once you make a bold move like that you cannot go back to taking her on a nice cozy date (exception if she's really into you and legitimately tells you she needs to be more comfortable first) and have her respect you and be open to rinse, wash, and repeating. Thus only make this bold move if you're pretty sure she'll go for it. I told you in order to know if she'd be receptive to this move is if
A. She's really attracted (Extremely Dilated pupils, flirtatious, nervous, submissive)
B. She's proven to easily comply with your lead (submits to your asking for compliance and follows your lead without hesitation)

-Rob

 

[PrettyDecent]

Michael,

First of all, your polarization is great! Practicing your banter is going to do some great things for your future.

Second, your attainability was a bit on the high end (as evidenced by her lack of compliance). The reason for this, I don't know, especially because your banter is very challenging. So it's either your fundamentals, or this girl in particular just figured she was higher value than you to begin with.

A few other notes -

There's two issues with your banter currently:

1. Your banter is too push (challenging) and not enough pull (qualifying, connecting, lifting her up)
2. There's too much banter overall, and you need to be a bit more rapport building.

Background: met this girl in pasta aisle at grocery store on a Saturday. I was telling her she shouldn't buy Ragu sauce cause it's disgusting...teasing her that she had bad taste...small talk, got her #, discussed going out Thurs night.

So, better push-pull would've looked more like: "Look, I can't let a girl with such great style get such terrible Spaghetti sauce!"

"Hey ____, was random but cool meeting you earlier. Are you always so friendly to new people?" She responded "haha not always, only if they're Spanish "

Me: I saw the cutest little squirrel today, made me think of you

Her: Haha squirrels are pretty cute, how's your week going?

Me: Good but can always use some spice...maybe you know an Italian girl who fits that description Thurs may end up working, how's drinks at 7?

Her: Yea, I probably could think of someone, I'll bring her Thursday, and seven works!

This is better push-pull, but still a bit strong on the push side, and it makes you look a little uncalibrated. Pull a little more here, like this:

"Good but can always use some spice...maybe you know an Italian girl with an awesome sense of humor? Can meet up Thurs for drinks at 7?"

Me: Cool lets meet at ____bar____ on ___some street____ - don't forget the spice

Her: Hmm would you mind going to _____ instead? It's a similar vibe, they have pool and games and stuff. Or _____ ?

Too assumptive here - make it a question. Even if she suggests another place, at least it looks like you also thought it was a better idea, rather than you just didn't get your way and she's actually the one in control.

Me: Is (my first suggestion) like the ghetto...you scared, little Italian girl? (first suggestion) has places around in walking distance...cool bar/cafe nearby too. If it sucks you can smack me wherever you'd like

I understand the meaning you're trying to convey here, like a dark sexual undertone, but because of the way texting works, you can't properly convey the correct voice tone. That's important, because subconsciously this could actually be interpreted as threatening! In the context like a man about to beat a girl in an alleyway or something. That's obviously not what you were going for, but something to watch for in the future!

Also, because you're asking for compliance here, it's important that you remain upbeat in your tone. Like, "Right on, that place is pretty great! I'm just swamped with errands today and cutting time, thinking (your original choice bar) might just be easier transport-time wise?"

Her: I’ve been to (my first suggestion), honestly, it’s really just not my scene

Next Day I text: "hope your bar choice is better than your pasta sauce choice" - she responded "such a charmer...see you thurs!"

You're chances for getting laid just went to 0, unfortunately!

You didn't just lose the frame battle to choose the venue here, you look bitter about it. That places her square in the driver's seat for control of the interaction, which is a bit of an attraction killer.

If you're going to acquiesce to her request, either make it look like she convinced you somehow, and now you genuinely think this other place might be a good idea - or, be like, "Alright, I'll give it a shot! But if it totally blows wet noodles, then you snag an extra round of drinks for us. Deal? ;P", and if she says anything like "no", or "maybe", just drop her and move on. Otherwise it's just going to be a drag on your time.

-

Anyway, keep up the solid practice! Luckily, your problem wasn't on the date itself, just the part leading up to it, so the problem is quite isolated. You'll be a ladykiller quite soon if you keep up the polarizing and calibrate it more and more as you go.

~Nick

 

[Hector Papi Castillo]

A few notes on this one.

1. Kissing her in public.... NO!
This kills all the intrigue, shows all your cards, and she knows exactly what is going to happen next (sex). Of course she's not going to go home with you! (she can't look like a slut)

On dates I will typically never kiss a girl until I get her back to my place. I will physically escalate on her, bite her neck playfully, and maybe give her a small peck on the lips but I will never make out with a girl unless we are at the sex location.

If you would've just escalated on this girl physically in the bar and then invited her home without kissing/making out with her you probably would've had it in the bag.

.............

Derek at RSD says when he pulls girls and get's into his car to take them home and they say "I'm not that kind of girl" he looks them in the eyes and tells them "Well I'm that type of guy" and lets them make the decision to come with him or not. He says sometimes they don't come with him and that's totally fine he merely screened out a girl that is going to take up his time.

Just wanted to make a note on this, especially since I just fucked a girl a few hours ago after making out with her and nearly fingering her in a very public place.

If you're honest about your intentions and are a very sexual guy, it doesn't matter if you make her look like a slut in front of everyone. I've escalated physically and made out with girls all across the experience spectrum in public and still pulled them.

The ASD-phenomena, so long as you're not in view of their friends/family/work (and even then!) is more about YOU than it is everyone else.

Are YOU going to judge her for fucking you so quickly is her concern.

"This kills all the intrigue, shows all your cards, and she knows exactly what is going to happen next (sex). Of course she's not going to go home with you! (she can't look like a slut)"

This is, in my experience, just not true. It's a miscaculation that comes with guys who use more under-the-radar styles. For a particular style, it may apply, but it's not necessarily an independent variable of courtship; it's a dependent variable that can be completely eliminated with

1. direct sexual styles

2. a sexual vibe

3. a liberal attitude/down-to-earth-vibe

4. Some sort of preselection/prior knowledge that you don't judge women for fast sex

If you want to call this "secret society," go ahead, but that's too Illuminati-esque for me. It's just the guys in the world who don't "count." Why did she sleep with him so quicky? Because it's him.

I don't think it kills intrigue or mystery to escalate with a girl or be sexually direct; fuck, you think that girl doesn't know you want to fuck her? Come on, give girls more credit than that. They know what men want; they just won't give it up to the guy who hides the banana, because he's not manly enough to express his extremely-obvious desires. She knows you want her pussy; be brave enough to honestly tell her (verbally or non-verbally).

Perhaps you can cite my skill level/experience as the exception to this rule, but I've been doing direct game ever since I started doing this shit. Even back when I was a nooby-noob I told bitches I wanted to get in their guts. I had my foray into indirect game and, well, it's not for me. I get no joy out of it.

If you want to run an indirect style, it obviously works and while I think direct game is better, that's just because I do it (or maybe I do it because I think it's better?). Either way, everyone on this forum needs to investigate the truth of ASD a little more deeply than "she won't fuck you if you're too obvious, because she doesn't want to look like a slut!" It's only sorta true, but not necessarily for the reasons you think.

Hector

 

[Mr.Rob]

So we all know there's more than one way to skin a cat and I think Hector makes a good point here illustrating this.

I find for me personally Chase's perspective seems to ring true more with my style of game and I'll quote him on this for reference sake from the article "How to Kiss Girls in Public and Have it Go Great

Chase: That sexual tension balloon gets popped, all the challenge, intrigue, and mystery you formerly presented is GONE, and she reverts to a more logical mode.

"Oh, that's funny," she thinks. "I was acting really wild a moment ago! Better go calm down before I do something rash."

Perhaps this is a self-fulfilling prophecy for me because I've always thought about this after reading Chase's thoughts on kissing aggressively in public or maybe as Hector points out it's my style of game.

I'm sure I could pull off some aggressive make out prior to pulling but I've never seen a reason to do it as I don't see how it would move things closer to us getting intimate.

I've also seen a bunch of newbie-intermediate level guys (which sounds like where Michael is at) in person and on the forums have a girl hooked into them, make-out hardcore, and then try to pull only for the girl to flee which is why dissuaded our Hero here to continue this tactic in the future.

But the main issue of the disagreement lies here:

Either way, everyone on this forum needs to investigate the truth of ASD a little more deeply than "she won't fuck you if you're too obvious, because she doesn't want to look like a slut!"

Dude Hector you've read enough of my reports and posts to where I'm surprised you think I'm not on the same page here.
I will admit I'm much more subtle than you Hector the majority of the time but I'd dare say that I am indirect.

When I wrote this

This kills all the intrigue, shows all your cards, and she knows exactly what is going to happen next (sex). Of course she's not going to go home with you! (she can't look like a slut)

I think Chase articulated it better than I did above being that she get's logical and thinks to herself "oh I better chill out and not be a slut." Its almost as if she's judging herself based on autopilot social conditioning more so than how judgmental you are being towards her behavior.

That and the fact that she's not feeling super excited emotions as she was when the sexual tension was higher before you made out with her.

Obviously you're a master at keeping the sexual tension high and that's cool man maybe you should write an article on how you do that so I can learn how to do the same.

However I completely disagree that I fit the bill for this

fuck, you think that girl doesn't know you want to fuck her? Come on, give girls more credit than that. They know what men want; they just won't give it up to the guy who hides the banana, because he's not manly enough to express his extremely-obvious desires. She knows you want her pussy; be brave enough to honestly tell her (verbally or non-verbally).

If it were true I fit the mold for this I think the girls I bring home would be utterly surprised and put up much more LMR when I whip my dick out.

Kind of curious as to why you singled me out on that one to such an extent?

-Rob

 

[Hector Papi Castillo]

If it were true I fit the mold for this I think the girls I bring home would be utterly surprised and put up much more LMR when I whip my dick out.

Kind of curious as to why you singled me out on that one to such an extent?

You have an indirect style, but you want to be direct with your body language.

"Yeah, let's go watch a movie" (wink and a smile).

"Yeah, I'm sure youuuu'd never do something like that" (wink, smile, sardonic tone).

And it wasn't personal at all, man! I just read through the thread, some sentences jumped out at me, and I thought "I WANNA RESPOND TO THIS."

If it came off hostile, wasn't my intention. I'm brash and sometimes forget to filter myself when dealing with other people. Imagine how honest/harsh I am with everyone else and multiply it by 10x - that's how I talk to myself. So my response was me typing on a public forum an internal conversation, if you want to think of it that way. Apologies if it seemed like an attack or anything like that!!!

<3<3<3

Hector

EDIT: I need to be more aware of audience; it's a weakness of my writing, as more than a few professors have pointed out. I think too much "I want to say X and don't care about how anyone feels about it! The truth is the truth!" Darn ego needs to step back=*

 

[Mr.Rob]

You have an indirect style, but you want to be direct with your body language.

Yeah I agree and see what you're saying now by indirect. I am direct with my body language though and girls know whats up without me having to tell them.

I always have admired your more direct, boss, gangster style of verbally telling it like it is with women. I'm going to go study your old LR's if I can find them to see how I might can replicate that. I'm getting bored with my style at the moment.

And it wasn't personal at all, man! I just read through the thread, some sentences jumped out at me, and I thought "I WANNA RESPOND TO THIS."

Oh cool man hah! Yeah I know what you mean, you see something you disagree with and need to correct the statement almost on principle towards your own belief system.

Its interesting, the longer I'm involved with seduction community the more I realize advanced concepts are really grey and two completely conflicting view systems can both work.

Imagine how honest/harsh I am with everyone else and multiply it by 10x - that's how I talk to myself.

I'm glad I'm not the only one!

Thanks for clearing this up man and no worries I was never overly offended or butt hurt.

Great to have some contrast on the boards here!

<3

-Rob