What's the big resistance point for guys to overcome before getting into PUA these days?

[Spyce D]

Red pill is just like conspiracy theories .

If x will happen , our race / religion will go extinct .

Other race , machine learning ( ai) , other tribe will take away our women , Livelihood ,lol , me so scared .

Never heard about these stuff before internet boom in my country .

Every country has their own version of redpill , even the non west .

You western folks have no idea . Just like how some/a lot of men in west hate the fact that other race are taking their women , same happens when men from West take/ wife up women from my country at least .

But , the thing Is you guys dont even know a word of hindi but we have to learn English from childhood , i got beat a lot in school for not speaking English , top class indian want to speak English .

Western dress , western food , language , race is top of the heirarchy

And it's the same in someother non western countries too .

you know how many years it took me to get over the fact that pickup is possible here . But , men from West always had it easy , women would themselves open them . Even conservative women are friendly to them .

but , i never let myself get bitter .

pickup is greater than redpill any day of the week .

Pickup is greater than all the bs conspiracy theories regarding race , ai .

Sorry , I may derailed but the thing is if you want pickup to boom then maybe focus on rich guys from non western world too , because as they are getting less conservative .... They will be more willing to learn pickup .

Capture those guys .

Most of pickup coaches from these countries are influenced by game , mystery , rsd ..... But not by Girlschase . Need to change that.

Leave the red pill .
Embrace the Game pill.

 

[Chase]

Great discussion here, gents.

Looks like the gist of it is red pill is basically a lot easier to digest. It’s telling men what they want to hear, easy to nod their heads at, gives them a chance to vent emotionally. A lot of male wish fulfillment, basically.

Comparing it to the old “be a nice guy” stuff, which was also kind of what guys wanted to hear back in the day: “Look, if you’re just NICE, women will want you, and appreciate you. They’ll recognize your value. In the end, the good guy wins. Just be yourself.” Guys gobbled that up until they just couldn’t believe it anymore.

So maybe what we’re really looking at is most of the time there is going to be a dominant “reinforcing” narrative that leads guys to be nodding their heads saying, “That’s right! That’s exactly it!” and they will crowd around that with certainty… until they reach a point where they’re simply not getting what they want and start to look around for something else.

Seduction broke out for a bit between the crumbling of the “nice guy ethos” and before the rise of the “red pill ethos.” But it couldn’t get big while “nice guy” was going strong, and once “red pill” went strong it was back into the shadows again.

If that’s right then basically you’ve got

DOMINANT IDEOLOGY --> breaks apart --> lull (free-for-all) --> winner emerges --> DOMINANT IDEOLOGY

Seduction flourished in the lull, but red pill was the real emergent winner during that lull and came to be dominant. And it will just continue to dominate until it breaks apart,, then you get another free-for-all lull, until a new ideology emerges to suck up all the oxygen.

…

I also liked the point that a lot of guys are not in red pill and not in PUA or anything else. Just regular dudes who are exposed to some of this here and there but don’t have strong opinions on any of it and have never consumed much of any of it. That’s been my experience as well.

However, I think there’s a lot of overlap between “guy who would’ve been drawn to PUA in 2012” and “guy who’d be drawn to red pill today.”

Basically, the kind of guy who is going to start looking around for answers and find a wagon train to hitch his wagon to is a lot more likely to hitch it to red pill these days than seduction.

…

Re: going for a social skills rebrand… social skills is a fine niche.

I’m too old to chuck Girls Chase and reboot some kind of “Social Skills Chase” though.

Life’s too short, I’ve got too many things I want to do, and another info products advice business sounds like torture to me at this point.

Anyone who wants to start a social skills biz certainly has my blessings to… as for me, I’d rather go back to working a 9-to-5 than do that I think

…

Finally, it’s a good note as well that red pill is a more comprehensive holistic system, and guys tend to look for those. Seduction is just “how to get girls and be a powerful/valuable man.” Red pill is “how to fight back against a society you feel is against you, how to understand these forces you find objectionable, how to understand what’s going on in the world” and then it also pulls in getting girls + being a powerful/valuable man. Its get girls advice tends to be flimsier, but it’s a complete system, that provides a broader set of answers (whether you agree with its answers or not), and most guys don’t buy partially into a system — if they’re going to buy in, they buy in all the way.

So they get into that whole system, adopt it all, here the red pill guys crapping on PU, then say, “Yeah! That crappy PU!” and there you go.

Back to that tribal mentality I discussed in my 2014 red pill article.

…

Anyway, I suppose it’s just the zeitgeist.

Like trying to sell PUA in the early 1990s must have been.

The underground it is!

Chase

 

[Kvothe]

I like being underground, personally

 

[Chase]

@Warped Mindless,

The seduction scene, the redpill stuff, and dating sites are all about to die due to advanced AI and soon after, AI sex bots.

If you don’t believe me, you don’t understand how advanced AI has become and the extreme amount of money being poured into it.

Do I want an AI GF/fuck buddy? No but I also put in the work to become very good at seduction and I don’t have to settle for that. While 99.9% of men may want to have the real thing over AI, once AI becomes good enough, those same 99.9% would go the extremely less effort route and just settle for AI.

Also, I know some extremely good players who have voluntarily checked out of the random hookup scene because they can’t stand the current crop of younger women. Can’t say I blame them.

It’s also getting to the point where no one wants to pay for information or coaching anymore.

Not so funny story: I’m a business consultant. Recently I worked with a guy and in a very short amount of time I nearly TRIPLED the yearly profit his business makes. He messaged me a little while after asking for extremely discounted consulting packages with me. When I told him that my prices are firm and questioned why he would not be willing to pay full price when I have a proven track record with him he responded with “chatGPT is free and Alex hormozi post free videos all the time so why pay?”

I politely declined any future business with him and told him that I wish him well.

This guy is not exactly an outlier.

Another guy: “Hey Jeff, my buddy Micheal over at [Business] recommended that I reach out to you. He told me how you saved his business and thought you could probably help me.”

I responded back to the guy and did what I always do with potential clients; I gave him a free hour of consulting where I ask him some questions and get a feel for his goals and his problems and obstacles and then tell him
Exactly how I plan to help him. We did the hour, he was in love with my plan, but then was astounded when I told him about the payment options. He told me “that’s to expensive I can probably just watch some YouTube videos and get the same information.”

Mind you, I offer a guarantee and I helped his friend save his business, and this dude still didn’t want to pay.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m still booked solid but it’s becoming more and more common that people just say “nah I’ll go watch videos or ask AI” instead of paying for expertness advice and help.

I suspect anyone who makes a living as a coach, consultant, or anyone who offers information for money is going to be out of a job in the coming years which is why I’m transitioning my business away from consulting.

Yeah, I'm definitely never doing an advice business again after my GC days are done.

It's fun and rewarding but man it is hard work convincing people to pay for advice. Humans don't want advice; they want solutions.

Sexbots are going to be big business. I actually think the future (let's say 100 years out) is going to be custom DNA female bodies with AI brains. I just finished writing a sci-fi novel about this. What would happen if you could go to the cyborg store and order a woman with exactly your dream looks and personality, with the DNA coded for that, plus an AI brain designed to give you the experience you wanted but never dump you, cheat on you, divorce rape you, etc.? Guys would just line right up for that. Want 20 kids? Awesome. She's a fully functional female and will be bearing you kids like you've knocked up a super model, then can stay home and educate them like a world-class mother. Never want kids and just want a companion? Great -- she comes with her tubes tied, and she's never going to change her mind and start yearning to be a mother! Change your mind and decide you want kids after all? Just have them install new Fallopian tubes. Decide you've had enough kids? She won't argue with a hysterectomy!

We're still quite a way off from androids that can walk and talk and interact like a regular human being. Progress on this has been slower than I expected. We probably need an "android Elon Musk" to get in there and supercharge the humanoid robot field. Once we get one though it'll progress fast.

As for chatbots replacing coaches... well the hilarious thing about that would be if chatbots took over, all rehashing the same BS advice endlessly, and real coaches went out of business, you'd end up with a weirdly static landscape, where innovation ceases, and everything sounds like the same repetitive chatbot-generated content again and again forever.

I think what you are likely to see in the advice field is two-tiered:

1. The genuinely disruptive human consultants will still be able to get out there, but they will need to closely guard their secrets so it can't be mimed by chatbots and disseminated, even superficially.
   
   
2. The copycat consultants / advice-givers are screwed, because chatbots can copy almost as well, or sometimes better, and they copy a whole lot cheaper.

You know what might be an interesting case study for you, is clients who opt to not consult with you and instead "just use ChatGPT", check back in with them in a year and ask them what their financial progress has been like using YouTube videos + AI.

"Case study: Client A saw 320% revenue growth in 1 year working with me. Then switched to using ChatGPT and saw a -47% revenue decline."

That would throw some cold water on all those "Well why don't I just use ChatGPT / YouTube" objections.

You and I both know as sexy as ChatGPT and YouTube videos can look, actual expert consulting (assuming it is properly tailored to what the client wants/needs) totally demolishes anything these channels can produce...

Chase

 

[POB]

Yeah, I'm definitely never doing an advice business again after my GC days are done.

It's fun and rewarding but man it is hard work convincing people to pay for advice. Humans don't want advice; they want solutions.

Bingo!
In fact, I think this "coaching thing" has been oversaturated for a while.

Consulting, on the other hand, can still be very lucrative if you find a niche who has:
a) a big problem, or a least the perception of a big problem;
b) not enough time/disposition to fix it;
c) money to spare;

Humans are masters at creating problems out of thin air.
There will always be some big problem somewhere.
And people will always be procrastinating to find the solution.
This is where the money is.

Personally, my new biz is geared towards senior residentials and clinics.
World population is getting older fast....and seniors have a specific need for high-end health and living services.
A big chunk of this demographic has huge savings, and they are willing to spend it on luxury accommodations, proper care and comfort.

 

[ulrich]

Consulting, on the other hand, can still be very lucrative if you find a niche who has:
a) a big problem, or a least the perception of a big problem;
b) not enough time/disposition to fix it;
c) money to spare;

Bookmarking this!!

I was talking with Chase about this the other day, actually.

I feel like the era of “information businesses” is coming to an end.
Information no longer feels scarce… with tens of thousands of influencers spitting free advice and AI optimized to make you feel like you got an answer (even if it’s a trivial non-actionable answer), information just feel plentiful nowadays.

Of course, there is a world of difference between useful information and crappy information… but information in general just lost its luster.

 

[Warped Mindless]

Bookmarking this!!

I was talking with Chase about this the other day, actually.

I feel like the era of “information businesses” is coming to an end.
Information no longer feels scarce… with tens of thousands of influencers spitting free advice and AI optimized to make you feel like you got an answer (even if it’s a trivial non-actionable answer), information just feel plentiful nowadays.

Of course, there is a world of difference between useful information and crappy information… but information in general just lost its luster.

Give away the information, sell the implementation.

 

[Mr.SocialAcceptableHarem]

Personally, I think red pill and PUA can work in tandem

As long as you realize you don’t have to do huge flexes to get girls (red pill) you can use the other principles of red pill (self mastery, financial stability, good physical health etc.) to develop yourself.

Then if your working on the PUA part of your life, added up that should all make you a well rounded person

It’s kinda funny, PUA is the “red pill” of dating, it shows you the truth of how dating works. The red pill in the matrix is supposed to show you the truth so it’s kinda ironic how PUA is closer to the “red pill” than the red pill community is itself

 

[Skills]

Personally, I think red pill and PUA can work in tandem

As long as you realize you don’t have to do huge flexes to get girls (red pill) you can use the other principles of red pill (self mastery, financial stability, good physical health etc.) to develop yourself.

Then if your working on the PUA part of your life, added up that should all make you a well rounded person

It’s kinda funny, PUA is the “red pill” of dating, it shows you the truth of how dating works. The red pill in the matrix is supposed to show you the truth so it’s kinda ironic how PUA is closer to the “red pill” than the red pill community is itself

This is a extremely good point... Yes totally agree..... If people can use critical thinking (you probably in this spectrum).... But this is not what happens, people join pua/red pill usually during pain periods of their life divorce, break up etc.... So they are vulnerable and very easily influence blind.... If they get the red pill other stuff "the hypergamy" "paranoia" "is not you is women fault" ingrained, even if they are working on the positive aspects such as fitness, finances etc..... it may have long term harmful consequences....After my break up i went red pill (me after years of experience and it did fuck with my head temporarily, even though i knew a lot of it did not match my experience, it was easier for me to believe it to cope with my break up pain, i bought every tomassi book,even promoted tomassi in nextasf).... Guess what i ended up in a ltr with the worst girl i have ever dated in my life, ended up punching me in the face, red pill is self fullfilling prophesy you end up with crap tbh is antiseductive.... (this ended up my short red pill stage)

This is the thing i have never met a pua in the last few years that was: - not really in shape - not really financially stable or working on their finances - not working on look maxing etc.....

The worst dude i met scumbaggy that got banned from the forum even went to jail: work on his fitness - style -finances - went to college etc..... -stop or cut to almost super low level drinking etc...

In other words i yet to meet a pua that was not working in self improvement, even mystery method and the game (they talk a lot about self improvement).... I mean me telling someone work on your money, and finances is like water is wet advice i still don't get it.... There is nothing really to teach.... I could become a red pill teacher in 2 seconds... "do the work" i mean come on... But yea if people have critical thinking i don't see the problem as long as you tune out the seduction advice and the women are this and that stuff, cause is horrible...

 

[Blue Eyed Bull]

Pick Up is a hobby.

Red Pill is a (postmodern) worldview.

Seduction is a very peculiar hobby. Exposing yourself to rejection and ridicule week after week just to add a few (or many) extra notches under the belt? Seems like a shitty proposition. And gets old pretty fast. There are soo many other ways to get pussy that are more constructive and easier.

Before the army I've had no game. Zero. I was actually a nerd and a loner. I used Linux as a teenager and memorized great speeches of American presidents. I've read everything I could including encyclopaedias and I overclocked my processor. I was handsome enough to have interest of some women but I just couldn't close. I've had a woman suck my dick once and I still didn't proceed to fuck her. Her friend just pushed us together and told us to enjoy ourselves. I've once had a random girl lick my ear and I ran away!!

I've gotten laid consistently when in the army. I was ripped, confident and surrounded by friends. All I needed to do was to look a woman straight into the eyes and talk to her. Then I took a cigarete from her mouth and smoked it while looking at her without flinching. Five minutes later we were walking to my place. She walked 3 miles just to fuck me. It was totally natural because my hormones told me to do it. Another time after dancing with a woman I invited her for a drink outside. Then I leaned over to her and started to talk dirty to her. She went mad. Her girlfriends literally had to drag her to the cab because she had a boyfriend at home. Next time I chatted up a girl in the toilet line at the disco. Five minutes later we were on the way to her place. Again we walked for three miles then she insisted that I fuck her raw. She was screaming of joy while I was fucking her in a flat she shared with three other girlfriends.

When my time in the army expired I slowly regained my old ways. I was good student, exceptional worker and even learned all the PUA theory at one point. I was smart, still handsome, but slowly losing muscles, very attentive. But I still lost the ability to close. All the theory doesn't help. It actually confused me and made me cynical. It was tiring. I was like a panda - cute, imposing and smart, but wouldn't fuck even if survival depended on it.

In short:
- nerd, no game: zero fucks.
- army brat, no game. A lot of fucks. Pure enjoyment.
- fast-rising office drone, knew game: few fucks for a lot of effort. Didn't feel good, felt dishonest and tiring.

I think PUA is a nerd cope. A way for a lone wolf who thinks too much to have a chance with women. But it does corrupt you, because it turns something natural and instinctive into some recipes. How you relate with women should come from your depths, not from the internet forums and seminars. Courtship is innate.

You don't need game. Everybody is a natural in his own way. That's the way humanity survived to this point. What changed is that we lost our ways:
- We don't move our bodies.
- We live in our heads.
- We substitute friends for social media and digital shit.

I believe that we are all naturals. All I needed was a pack of friends, wilderness and intense physicality. That transformed me from a rejected nerd to a chad fucker. And then back to panda nerd when I became an office drone. But if I ever want to go back to chasing women (I am now married) I know what to do. Train hard, go outdoors, reconnect with my mates and push my physical boundaries in a mannerbund. Everything else is just instinct.

 

[orkie123]

When I first had some decent success with girls, all I cared about was that finally I felt like I was getting respect as a man. I had cool friends and they liked me because I was fun to hang out with but I was 110% useless with girls even when they gave me attention. So when I finally started getting laid more often than a few of my friends, my ego was through the roof. It was good to finally get rid of the feeling that I was the "weakest" of the group.

My motivations since then vary. Sometimes I'm so horny I would message any potential even if it was dead to the ground. Other times, I want a hot girlfriend so I can get respect from others, maybe even get the "how on earth did he get her" vibe. Most of the time, I just want a companion who is willing to try new experiences and be a little wild in our own bubble.

My two main problems right now are incongruency and quantity. Due to not being committed to what I want, I come off incongruent between relationship / casual sex and combine that with only meeting a couple of new girls that meet my standards every week, there is need to change. I've started with reducing nights out, and increasing meeting new people via events that don't involve alcohol. I'm tired of drinking as it cripples my other goals in life leading to negative cycles.

It sometimes feels strange just how difficult and yet how easy it is to get sex at the same time. I've never disliked or blamed women though, even when I was reading more redpill stuff, I always knew the problem was in me and my lack of action and knowledge. I find it distasteful when people shame girls that they then want to sleep with. Do I think that some girls do questionable stuff and I would not want to be involved with long-term? Yes. But heck, some of these girls are really fun to be around and can be good friends.

I think I could really use some semi-regular coach calls because I feel like I've got all the ingredients to be doing pretty well and yet my results have been relatively slow recently. I'm a little stingy right now though haha so will see if I can change my results in the next few months, and if not, will invest in myself again.

Completely agree that most things men do revolves around getting girls though. Even my biggest dream, which has no direct link with girls, money, or power, is one that I think I've chosen because it always makes girls extremely intrigued.