What's the next step?

[Penguin]

I met an incredibly hot girl on a course I am doing. I invited her for drinks and got her number as quickly as possible (didn't want to ask her in front of other people on the course). On the day I got her number (Tuesday), I sent an ice-breaker text and she replied to it. Today I sent a Chase-style text asking what days would be best for the meet-up, and her response to that part was:

"Don't know for sure but most likely next weekend".

I was expecting her to be more specific than that XD. I feel as though I'll have to ask her what day again at some point :S. I'm seeing her again tomorrow for the last day of the course- Shall I confirm a day/time next weekend then, or text something tonight?
Thanks

 

[Light]

Just ask her on a date on the very last day after the course there and then!
If she has plans, tell her you'd like to meet up for lunch / dinner soemtime soon, and if she agrees then you can fire off another text later in the week to arrange a day.

 

[Penguin]

Hey again Light ,
Normally the same-day date is a good idea but in this particular case it happened to be her birthday on the last day and I knew she was going out with friends that night. I ended up texting her suggesting next Saturday and she said that works for her. The problem now is there's an awkward 5 day gap before the date. Should I text anything else other than the pre-meeting text on the day?
Also what is the best greeting at the start of the date? Kiss on the cheek?

 

[Tyme2k]

I hate that big gap also, what I have done with mixed results is send "Hey(name), just checking in, hope your week is going great " This way I popped into her head haven't asked anything or appeared needy. Usual response is "Hey, my week is good bla bla, how about you?" I usually wait a long time before responding and keep this answer very aloof. I try to come up with a way to force her to invest one last time then I don't respond til the day of the meet with chases normal, "6 tonight at Dive bar?"

Not sure everyone else's experience with this, but I personally hate that large gap. I think the best thing is keep yourself really busy so you don't think about it much.

 

[Light]

Text nothing between the gap.

The day before the actual date, send a confirmation text to ask "Tomorrow is still on right? "

On the actual date, send a text 2 hours before meet up to let her know "Hey, I'm on my way, I'll see you soon."

Thats all.

 

[Tyme2k]

Text nothing between the gap.

The day before the actual date, send a confirmation text to ask "Tomorrow is still on right? "

On the actual date, send a text 2 hours before meet up to let her know "Hey, I'm on my way, I'll see you soon."

Thats all.

How many times has this worked and resulted in a flake for you? I for one have had many flakes using this type of technique. I have also been sucessful, but it's a much lower percentage.. A nice FR example would be awesome

 

[Light]

Good Question Tyme2k,

Personally, I've never had any girls flaked on me doing this. Only around 2 out of 10 girls have kindly texted me or call me to let me know they cannot make it during the gap time, or even the day before after I've sent a reminder text.

The idea is, you do not want to be going out with a girl who can potentially waste your time. My time especially is very valuable compared to most people. So this works very well for me.

I've just recently used this again last week, to meet up with a girl who came from abroad for a visit.

Just remember that the initial attraction is the most important. If the girl was not interested in you in the first place, it doesn't matter what you do, she will flake you. Texting is just a tool.

 

[Penguin]

Good point Light, she's unlikely to change her mind about showing up just because I sent a text the day before. However, I think asking if it's still on shows that I'm worried she will cancel. I want to appear confident that girls show up on my dates. What I'll probably do is text her the day before to get investment (ask her to bring something on the date), so I can find out if she is coming or not without asking directly.

 

[Light]

Good point Light, she's unlikely to change her mind about showing up just because I sent a text the day before. However, I think asking if it's still on shows that I'm worried she will cancel. I want to appear confident that girls show up on my dates. What I'll probably do is text her the day before to get investment (ask her to bring something on the date), so I can find out if she is coming or not without asking directly.

Yes, a reminder text can be anything from direct to indirect.
"Looking forward to seeing you tomorrow."
"Don't forget, 7pm tomorrow. Don't be late"

These works too.

 

[Penguin]

I ended up only sending a pre-meeting text 4 hours in advance on the day. One hour later this happened:

Her: Hey phil, I'm gonna have to reschedule, really sorry, you free through the week? X
(25 minutes later)
Me: No problem, I've got Monday, Thursday and Friday free- Are any of those good?
(1 hour, 45 minutes later)
Her: Friday?
(1 hour later)
Me: Cool, let's meet at 5, same place
(Immediately)
Her: Sounds good
(30 minutes later)
Me: Awesome, see you then Madeline

Based on the strength of our interactions in person, and her immediate suggestion to reschedule, I feel that she flaked for one of the following reasons:

1. Nervousness
2. Saturday at 2pm was inconvenient
3. She didn't want to have to explain to her parents where she was going (for the new date/time she can pretend it's her usual night out with friends)
4. Maybe her period began and she wants to wait until it finishes, as she knows I live near the date location and move fast

My female friend who I asked about this was less optimistic however, and said that she used to cancel dates that way if she had no intention of ever meeting up with the guy. She suggested that Madeline chose the furthest away day to give her more time to think of an excuse to cancel.

Of course, dating advice from women is very unreliable since their actions are often incongruent with how they claim to act. I'd like to hear some thoughts from the guys on here as to whether it's still looking good, and any tips you might have .

 

[Franco]

Hey Penguin,

Of course, dating advice from women is very unreliable since their actions are often incongruent with how they claim to act.

Correct. I don't let women analyze any of my interactions with other women anymore.

My female friend who I asked about this was less optimistic however, and said that she used to cancel dates that way if she had no intention of ever meeting up with the guy. She suggested that Madeline chose the furthest away day to give her more time to think of an excuse to cancel.

This is very rare, especially if the girl is attractive. As long as she is scheduling specific dates to get together, then I would continue to pursue a meetup with her. If she has lots of guys texting her all the time, she usually isn't going to bother re-scheduling a date with a guy just to cancel on him. It's a waste of her time.

Her: Hey phil, I'm gonna have to reschedule, really sorry, you free through the week? X
(25 minutes later)
Me: No problem, I've got Monday, Thursday and Friday free- Are any of those good?
(1 hour, 45 minutes later)
Her: Friday?
(1 hour later)
Me: Cool, let's meet at 5, same place
(Immediately)
Her: Sounds good
(30 minutes later)
Me: Awesome, see you then Madeline

One suggestion here: if the girl cancels and asks for your schedule, it's actually better to just pick a date here rather than list a bunch of days you are free. If the date you select doesn't work for her, then she'll usually just say she can't make that day and suggest the following day (or a better day for her). You don't want to make yourself seem too available -- remember, you're a busy, powerful man with other women who want some of your time as well.

Cheers,

Franco

 

[charming]

I ended up only sending a pre-meeting text 4 hours in advance on the day. One hour later this happened:

Her: Hey phil, I'm gonna have to reschedule, really sorry, you free through the week? X
(25 minutes later)
Me: No problem, I've got Monday, Thursday and Friday free- Are any of those good?
(1 hour, 45 minutes later)
Her: Friday?
(1 hour later)
Me: Cool, let's meet at 5, same place
(Immediately)
Her: Sounds good
(30 minutes later)
Me: Awesome, see you then Madeline

Based on the strength of our interactions in person, and her immediate suggestion to reschedule, I feel that she flaked for one of the following reasons:

1. Nervousness
2. Saturday at 2pm was inconvenient
3. She didn't want to have to explain to her parents where she was going (for the new date/time she can pretend it's her usual night out with friends)
4. Maybe her period began and she wants to wait until it finishes, as she knows I live near the date location and move fast

My female friend who I asked about this was less optimistic however, and said that she used to cancel dates that way if she had no intention of ever meeting up with the guy. She suggested that Madeline chose the furthest away day to give her more time to think of an excuse to cancel.

Of course, dating advice from women is very unreliable since their actions are often incongruent with how they claim to act. I'd like to hear some thoughts from the guys on here as to whether it's still looking good, and any tips you might have .

Hey Penguin!

Thanks for sharing your experiences so we can learn with you. It's easy to get discouraged, but don't give up. You're a sexy man with plenty of options, live like it. I never schedule meet-ups further than a few days out. ie Text Monday for meeting on Wednesday/Thursday. Text Saturday for meetup Monday/Tuesday. Not to mention I'll only give them this much notice for a first date, afterward they'll have to make themselves available for my schedule, and the ones who want me always do. I think you've been friend-zoned. When she mentioned not being available till next weekend, I would have taken that as a blow off. Girls don't work like guys. As men we make plans and we stick to them. Everything is fluid with a girl, her commitments and schedule. She'll always find time for things she wants. If an IOI (indicator of interest) is she wants to meet now, an IOD (indicator of disinterest) is she wants to meet MUCH later. The only girls who are smitten with me and can't meet right now or later today are ones who are stuck (came with a friend/parents from out of town, no vehicle, ie an extenuating circumstance). Work or school are not extenuating circumstances. Let's be logical, she's not doing schoolwork 24/7 for the next 2 weeks. The last minute reschedule is always a shit test. It's a test to see if you're a sexy man who she'll want as a lover or another man friend who she can use. Don't play these games with girls, it communicates you have no options and you're waiting to cater to her every whim - remember you're a sexy and busy man.

Here's what I do:
A couple hours after meeting
Me: You're seduction skills are on point, you totally played it cool! -Charming
SusieQ: haha. thanks.

Next day:
Me: Hey SusieQ! The weather today is gorgeous. Wanna grab some food? I could do Monday or Wednesday night.
SusieQ: Don't know for sure but most likely next weekend.

I'd assume she was blowing me off or playing games. I wouldn't respond and instead I'd go meet more women who aren't gaming me. Maybe she is interested but that response isn't showing it, and worst case senario you increase her interest by not responding and she pings you a week or two later.

2 weeks later:
SusieQ: School is stressing me out. Just finished a 10 page paper for english. :/
Me: Bummer.
SusieQ: How are your classes?
Me: Math isn't my strong suit. Wanna grab some coffee? I could do Sunday or Monday evening.
SusieQ: Yeah, Sunday sounds good.
Me: How does CoffeeHouse off peach st and orchard ave at 7:30pm sound?
SusieQ: Perfect.
Me: Great, see you then.

Now she knows I want to see her, but don't play games. Not only will she not flake, she'll show up early and be anxious when I intentionally show up 7 minutes late showing how busy I am and how valuable my time. This is where you want her to be, anxious and excited to meet up with a sexy man who might blow her mind by being a thrilling fast mover and passionate lover.

 

[Penguin]

Franco:

Thinking about it now, her reschedule text sort of implied that she was free all week and I could have just suggested Monday XD.

Charming:

Yeah I hate these waiting periods, would rather just take her to bed now . Aside from the rescheduling error of suggesting 3 days, I've been managing my attainability quite well. For example, I didn't reply to her very first text in response to my ice-breaker which asked what I had been up to that evening. As the 2 week course has ended, the only way she can see me is on a date, and I have used texts solely to set up the date, so it's not possible for her to have me in her friend zone .

Thanks guys, I'll let you know the outcome on Friday.

 

[Chase]

Penguin-

One other thing I noticed here that no one else mentioned:

I'm seeing her again tomorrow for the last day of the course- Shall I confirm a day/time next weekend then, or text something tonight?
Thanks

There's a "medium bias" against asking women out in "lower pressure" mediums when you have the chance to ask them out in a higher pressure one.

e.g., if you meet a girl in person, you stand a much better chance of getting her out on a date if you suggest the two of you grab food or drinks sometime before you get the number than if you just get the number and ask her about a date later (it appears less confident on your part, because it's scarier to ask a girl out in person than it is over text - you appear to have chosen the less intimidating option, and thus are less confident / successful / manly). This is compounded with a girl you'll see repeatedly in person - if you're going to see her again in person fairly soon, never ask her out via phone / text / email / IM / etc. - always opt to do it in person. Otherwise, you end up looking a little timid to her - you talk to her normal in person, but never mention dating, and only ever mention dating remotely, where any rejection won't come to your face. This is bad when you had a chance to ask her out in person prior to getting the number; it's worse though if you'll see her again in person.

I have no doubt that played into things here - had you asked her out in person rather than via text, the response may have been different.

Take it as a good lesson learned, and it's easy enough to fix with the next girl - just make asking her out a prerequisite for asking her for her phone number in the first place, and you're all set.

Chase

 

[Penguin]

Hey Chase,
I actually did invite her for drinks in person, then texted her to arrange the time and place. I was sure to get that right this time as you pointed out I'd done it wrong in one of my other threads .

 

[Chase]

Hey Chase,
I actually did invite her for drinks in person, then texted her to arrange the time and place. I was sure to get that right this time as you pointed out I'd done it wrong in one of my other threads .

My mistake then, Penguin! In that case, it looks like you did things correct here, and this one just ended up flaking. Sometimes you can preempt a flake you sense coming on and flake yourself first, and this will make the girl more receptive to meeting you again later, and sometimes you can rebuild attraction if you see her in person... but sometimes, that's just how it goes.

Chase

 

[Penguin]

TL;DR - She showed up this time, I took her back to my flat, and she gave much last minute resistance (when topless in bed), apparently because she and her parents have a conservative attitude towards sex. How can I proceed?

Hey guys,
I had mixed results tonight.

She showed up to the rescheduled date. The plan was we were going to go to one or two bars, but she didn't have her ID so I said we would go do something else instead and took her straight back to my flat (that was easy ). I got us some drinks and we watched a stand-up comedian DVD that we both like, whilst sitting on my bed. During the show I started off using incidental touching and ended up with my arm round her with her leaning into me. After that I gave her a massage, so I got her to take her top off and undo her bra. During this I delivered some good chase frames. When I was done giving the massage I lay next to her and we started making out. She didn't want her bra to come completely off, but I got us under the duvet and kept persisting, then it came off and I threw it. Even then, she was still covering her breasts with her hands most of the time.

She liked making out, and was massaging the back of my neck with her fingertips, but gave extreme last minute resistance when I tried to escalate further. I've overcome resistance from a devout Christian girl with a boyfriend in the past, but this was something else. She wouldn't let me touch her even on the outside of her jeans, or lower down on her tummy. She kept saying 'no' in an "oh, you! " kind of way and moving my hand up again. She did however let me kiss her naked breasts and neck without resisting.

I remained chilled, confident and amused the whole time, creating the impression that I get a lot of action and didn't really care how this turned out. I responded to the resistance with some of Chase's lines like "Maybe we should play chess instead '. When she revealed that she thinks "it's too soon", I said, "You're right, maybe we should wait a few months". I continued making out and trying to escalate but it wasn't going anywhere, and I'm unable to be turned on if the girl isn't getting fully involved. After that we watched more stand up and when it got late (11:30pm) she said she had to go home. I stayed smooth and encouraged her to stay the night with me but she wouldn't. I walked her where she needed to go because it was freezing outside and she wasn't 100% sure of the directions (didn't even know the way out of the building XD).

I had subtly probed for more information about why she resisted and found out that she would judge herself harshly if she slept with a guy that quickly. Also she didn't want her parents to think that she slept over at a guy's flat who she had just met so she had to go home (she just told them she was going out, not that she was going on a date). Basically it sounds like both she and her parents are very sexually conservative. She also claimed she has always been protective of herself which I can believe because she is a little on the shy side.

As a beginner, tonight was somewhat a success for me as I took an ultra-hot girl (one who I would have considered to be miles out of my league in the past) home from a date and got her into bed. I think I gave it 100% tonight and don't know what else I could possibly have done to make more progress. It looks like she could be trying to boyfriend-zone me despite me acting as a lover, due to her conservative attitude towards sex. My boyfriend value might have appeared high to her because I have a very nice flat at the moment. There'd be nothing wrong with being her boyfriend, but as we know, acting as one is not a safe bet.

I need to know how to proceed- Do I just try to set up a 2nd date and go for it again? Also should I try to establish more comfort with deep diving, so that she feels she knows me very well? What would be some good questions to find out everything about her?
Thanks

 

[Franco]

Hey Penguin,

Good stuff here! This is great progress, and I'm glad you reached some milestones here. I see more success in your future. =)

With that being said, you probably could have closed on this girl by being more aggressive. As Chase has re-iterated on this website, no girl is ever "too conservative" to sleep with a guy on the first date... he just has to bring out the "animal-like lust and desire" in her to overwhelm her emotions and make her give in.

You absolutely should see this girl again if possible, and this time, you'll want to be more aggressive when pushing for the close. Try to push past your comfort zone -- that is really the best way for you to learn and grow. If you need some more inspiration, I highly suggest you read charming's lay report in which he recovers on a second date with a girl.

That thread is here: LR: HB9 Model and Salesmanship

Cheers,

Franco

 

[Tyme2k]

How long did you try?
[url=https://boards.girlschase.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1265]viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1265[/url]

2.5 hours to bed this girl, persistence is key. Your responses were great to her LMR same thing I was doing. Problem is I have failed seduction before and lost the girl, dated her 3 more times after but poof gone! I wasn't going to lose another one.

 

[Penguin]

Franco - Thanks, it's good to see that incomplete escalations can be recovered from sometimes. You're right that I probably could have closed- She didn't even mention leaving until much later, and she was smiling the whole time. I will be more aggressive next time by assuming a more dominant position (on top, between her legs) and by using Chase's bursts of passion. While it might be possible to override her logic with strong emotions, maybe it would also help to address her self-judgement and show her that there's nothing wrong with doing what she wants to do (sex) and its not harming anyone. What do you think about that?

Tyme2k - That's some serious mental fortitude. I find battling against LMR very draining so I only tried for about 20 minutes. Like I said, it isn't arousing for me unless the girl is actively involved. I'm too worried about getting past LMR to be excited. I know from experience that she was most likely wet despite saying 'no', and usually it's fine for me after I can confirm that the girl is wet.
When I read your post it occurred to me, "Why the hell did I leave the light on?". Clearly she was shy about being naked, and if her bra came off under the duvet then maybe more clothes would have come off in the dark. I'll try switching it off next time.

So shall I text after a 2 day gap to arrange a 2nd date?