What's your biggest sticking point vs. your experience level?

[PeacockMan]

This might be a little off topic. But one of my sticking points is deciding which journey I want to take: With a lay count of under 10 and I'm getting in my late 20's I wonder if:

A. I should even be focusing on banging a lot of women
B. Finding a solid girlfriend (who I may end up being in a relationship with for 6 months to 2 years)
C. Setting down and getting married

I want to please myself but I also want the acceptance of those in my social circle. I grew up going to Church almost every Sunday and as per their practice they teach young persons to find a woman to marry sooner rather than later.

My parents have been married for over 35 years and on some level I see myself replicating that in the future with the woman of my dreams (if there is even such a thing.

I still go to church on the occasional Sunday (because I work a lot) and most of the church folks I look up to as good role models are married for years or decades.

At the same time I have some desire to bang a lot of women. But I have not been in the active in the game long enough to know if this is what I really want or just some desire because I see other guys getting laid a lot of seeing the lay reports on the forum. Point is if I never actually experienced this, how do I know if I even want to do this?

Next point, because my focus is primarily on making it in my career, women have taken a backburner for the most part. Which means I am not having sex as much as I really should be and that's lonely at times. There's a girl I'm currently dating which there is a field report for thus far and I like her a lot but she seems focused on getting married and having kids. So I'm proceeding with caution a bit here because I'd never mislead a woman into thinking I want her as a girlfriend/wife when really all I want is some consistent booty. We haven't fucked as yet but I am doing the whole short consecutive dates and I'll attempt to get her in bed in the next 7-30 days tops.

Because I do not know enough about women (in terms of quantity and quality) I'm hesistant that if do make the next woman my girlfriend, then I'll be pinned down with her, start acting needy, not knowing how to handle all the shit tests that come my way, and get heartbroken if she decides to breakup with me.

And I'm hesitant about marriage because what if I marry the woman and down the road she puts on a lot of weight, starts making my life a nuisance, has me on child support... and in reality if I had actually taken the time to bang and date more women I would know what to avoid for the most part.

I also have a desire to fit in/be approved of my life decisions by:

- Other seducers
- My parents
- My closest friends (who are all married or in long term relationships for years)
- My religious background (I have deep respect for my pastor who has recently asked me if I plan on getting married)

But one cannot please themselves and others without disappointing others. Some might say this is nice guy behavior, I'm not sure. But that's my biggest sticking point. To recap:

1. Finding out which path to take in seduction and know it's the right decision for me
2. How to stop feeling like a hypocrite (eg. going to church and hearing the pastor preach about sex outside of marriage yet deep down I know in the past (and future) I will fuck women from almost any background i.e. party girls, nerdy girls, e.t.c.). Or me getting a girlfriend and then having the desire to fuck other women (happened with my last girlfriend) and not knowing how to ask her for a one sided open relationship without feeling like a total jerk.

PeacockMan

 

[JT Sunshine]

My biggest sticking point right now is opening groups. I'm finding it much easier to open women who are by themselves (or often with friends but not in conversation with them at that moment, at the bar alone or standing in a line in front of me). Even two girls is fine. But I get quite a bit of approach anxiety when I see a group of three or more girls all in conversation, or even worse a group of girls and guys.

I find myself missing LOTS of opportunities because of my tendency to chicken out when I see a big group of girls, and instead go find one by herself to approach. I typically do great when I get to *meet* the group after talking to a girl solo, but just can't seem to get myself to approach larger groups.

I need to fix this ASAP as I've found a honey-hole of a venue full of beautiful women, but they're almost always in bigger groups. I know of other places that are easier to find girls by themselves (where I am finding much more success), but it's limiting me in building up my experience and successes. Need to break out of my comfort zone and just go for it and things will be golden.

Timeframe-wise I was pretty dang good at this stuff in my early twenties, but got in a couple long term relationships spanning a decade. I'm super rusty. Got back into game about three months ago and have been steadily improving, but not as fast as I'd like.

 

[orkie123]

Stuck in a loop. I'm a believer that for most part, people can only focus on significantly improving 1 major area of life. Currently, I want to get into a LTR with a girl that meets my standards as the rest of my life is going pretty good.

However, my game + how often I put myself in situations where I can meet high quality girls is not up to scratch. To improve my game, I have to practise with girls that may not meet those standards. Even though I'm horny as hell these days, I don't have that much motivation to game girls that don't meet my standards similar to what has been posted on other threads on motivation.

I know it's a me problem and so I'm going on a semi-long travel trip this summer to try and reset and also as I find it easier to meet girls whose vibe I like while travelling.

That said, I've been averaging 1 new girl every 1.5-2 months for nearly a year now, which may not be amazing for most people here, but given how low effort I've been, and how much my breakup from 1.5 years ago affected me, I'll take it.

 

[Kent]

All right, so summing up this thread thus far:

• @gameboy: approach anxiety
• @gameboy: ejecting too soon

• @Atlas IV: approach anxiety with other people around (glad the article helped!)
• @Atlas IV: sexual framing on dates

• @DarkJedi: converting day game approaches & numbers into dates

• @scartissue: effective sexual escalation at the seduction location

• @Kent: ejecting from approaches to preferred types of girls

• @DonGately: approach anxiety
• @DonGately: anxiety on first date with beautiful girls

• @Freakester: lol, what? Haha. Guess we’ll call that “targeting system miscalibration”

• @Loverboy: converting day game approaches & numbers into dates

• @POB: time management for approaching/dating

• @Kaida: playboy reputation
• @Kaida: effective sexual escalation at the seduction location

• @Spyce D: being confident in social circle

There are definitely some common themes there.

Approach anxiety shows up thrice. Converting day game numbers into dates appears twice. Escalating to sex with girls back at your place makes a few appearances.

I’ll just list out some of the resources we have on GC currently for some of these issues, in case it’s helpful for the guys dealing with them and you haven’t seen all these yet:

• Approach Anxiety
• Ejecting Too Soon
• Sexual Framing
• Being Unflustered by Beauty
• Playboy Reputation
• Time Management
• Sexual Escalation
• Social Circle Rep

I think I’d probably like to write something on having much higher converting phone number grabs.

A few questions for the guys who’ve responded:

@Kent: have you tried not ejecting from your conversations with these girls and seeing what happens if you keep talking to them / settle their nerves down? Have you considered they may seem nervous because they’re as excited by you as you are by them? Often with the girls you feel the strongest pull toward, there will be a strong MUTUAL pull.

@DonGately: where were you having trouble converting before? Approaches to numbers? Numbers to dates? Dates to pulls? Pulls to lays? Everything? Something else?

Thanks for all the responses here, gents!

Chase

I really appreciate it Chase! I actually hadn't even considered that as an option but it makes sense.

I actually wish I'd read it this morning. A few weeks ago I felt a rare "spark" with a waitress who served me at a restaurant near my place. I tipped her very well and planned to go back later on, as I know some people who work there and didn't want to be too pushy. She didn't serve me when I went back last weekend, but she spent most of her dinner shift standing and talking to the table directly next to me. I caught her looking at me several times but she turned away too fast every time I tried to say hey, so I decided to hold off on making a move.

Then today, I saw her at a cafe next to the restaurant. I approached her and she recognized me, but seemed terse and angry as she counted tip money. She didn't return my smile at all. When I asked her how her shift was going she looked at the floor and said something about how she was in the middle of it and about to go back to work. I was actually struck by how negatively she reacted to my warm-hearted approach, so I ejected. She left without saying bye to me. I felt a bit bad today thinking she must really not like me, but its possible she was nervous, I've been too aloof and ejecting too early.

 

[rockstar]

Been doing a lot of nightgame the past couple weeks. Generally I've been getting stuck at 3 different points:

1. Opening. Either
   1. The girl or group immediately step away and turn away from me so that they don't even hear what I have to say. Often they'll make a shooing motion or something. I'll try to lean back and give them a facial expression, but they just turn away. Or try to follow up with something lighthearted, but they'll be too far away to hear me
   2. A girl opens , but her friend quickly pulls her away, waves her finger in my face, and turns her back to me 5-20 seconds in.
   3. Similar to above, but it's a guy telling me "Thanks, but we're good. They're with me” etc.
2. Hooking/attraction. I'll be talking to the girl/group, for 30 seconds to up to 5 or even 10+ minutes. They might ask me a couple of the standard "where are you from", etc. questions. But they don't really engage much, and I don't have much compliance at all. I'll start trying to throw in teasing, role plays, chase framing, open loops, challenging, innuendos, little physical things if I can, etc, to find something that opens them up but nothing will stick, and they'll have to go "use the bathroom" or "get back to their friends".
3. Pulling. Usually will be the friend excuse "I can't leave my friend" "We have to leave together". Occasionally I'll get an "We just met tonight, I can't go home with you" or "it's too soon" type one though. I'm trying to frame against these more earlier, but it's hard in a loud club where I don't have a quieter area to isolate to. I persist pretty hard with leading/pulling, but still fail to turn some of these around.

Honestly, it's very rare that I even make it to step 3 with the hotter girls (unless there was some social circle element involved, like she's a friend of my friend, or its from a party where I know many people.)

Less common recently, but I also occasionally get stuck in this spot where the girl is engaged, but I'm having a hard time building up the sexual tension. Like she won't make eye contact, or get super close, and I'm in a venue that doesn't have quiet areas, but I don't have the compliance to pull her to another venue either. Maybe she's really shy about innuendos or something too. Or I just can't get the emotions high enough for the compliance I need to build sexual tension. And then conversation starts going stale/dying and I feel like I'm running out of things to say. If I can isolate her somewhere quiet and have a full conversation, I don't really get stuck here.

For Daygame, it's always:

1. The girl doesn't open. Though girls stop pretty easy in the city I'm currently in, so it's not an issue at the moment.
2. Boyfriend excuse
3. Get the number but either never responds or never comes on a date. This is where I lose the VAAAAAAST majority tbh.
4. LMR/resistence in the bedroom. Usually getting pants/shirt off or touching under pants/shirt. Excuse is usually "I don't sleep with guys on the first date" "This is too soon" "It takes me more time before I'm comfortable having sex with someone", etc. At some point they will say they have to leave and go home.

For Online, it's the same as the last two points of daygame. Occasionally I'll have a girl that I just don't like and end the date due to that too.

For Social Circle, I almost never fail. I usually wait until I have a good feeling about it to go for it, but I've also been stopped by LMR from social circle too.

Some of the dynamics vary a little bit in difference cities/countries.

I also often have to battle to retain girls due to attainability problems, but I'm working on that.

Experienced Level is....experienced? I have a lot of lays behind me, but I wouldn't consider my game level super advanced. I lose the vast majority of my leads because I just can't get them out on dates. They eventually stop responding over text. Once I get them out I close most of the time, but occasionally get stuck in LMR. And rarely can ever get a second date if I don't close on the first. In nightgame, I lose girls in several different places.

 

[ChrisXKiss]

Been doing a lot of nightgame the past couple weeks. Generally I've been getting stuck at 3 different points:

1. Opening. Either
   1. The girl or group immediately step away and turn away from me so that they don't even here what I have to say. Often they'll make a shooing motion or something. I'll try to lean back and give them a facial expression, but they just turn away. Or try to follow up with something lighthearted, but they'll be too far away to hear me
   2. A girl opens , but her friend quickly pulls her away, waves her finger in my face, and turns her back to me 5-20 seconds.
   3. Similar to above, but it's a guy telling me "Thanks, but we're good. They're with me, etc.
2. Hooking/attraction. I'll be talking to the girl/group, for 30 seconds to up to 5 or even 10+ minutes. They might ask me a couple of the standard "where are you from", etc. questions. But they don't really engage much, and I don't have much compliance at all. I'll start trying to throw in teasing, role plays, chase framing, open loops, challenging, innuendos, little physical things if I can, etc, to find something that opens them up but nothing will stick, and they'll have to go "use the bathroom" or "get back to their friends".
3. Pulling. Usually will be friend excuse "I can't leave my friend" "We have to leave together". Occasionally I'll get an "We just met tonight, I can't go home with you" or "it's too soon" type one though. I'm trying to frame against these more earlier, but it's hard in a loud club where I don't have a quieter area to isolate to. I persist pretty hard with leading/pulling, but still fail to turn some of these around.

Honestly, it's very rare that I even make it to step 3 with the hotter girls (unless there was some social circle element involved, like she's a friend of my friend, or its from a party where I know many people.)

Less common recently, but I also occasionally get stuck in this spot where the girl is engaged, but I'm having a hard time building up the sexual tension. Like she won't make eye contact, or get super close, and I'm in a venue that doesn't have quiet areas, but I don't have the compliance to pull her to another venue either. Maybe she's really shy about innuendos or something too. Or I just can't get the emotions high enough for the compliance I need to build sexual tension. And then conversation starts going stale/dying and I feel like I'm running out of things to say. If I can isolate her somewhere quiet and have a full conversation, I don't really get stuck here.

For Daygame, it's always:

1. The girl doesn't open. Though girls stop pretty easy in the city I'm currently in, so it's not an issue at the moment.
2. Boyfriend excuse
3. Get the number but either never responds or never comes on a date. This is where I lose the VAAAAAAST majority tbh.
4. LMR/resistence in the bedroom. Usually getting pants/shirt off or touching under pants/shirt. Excuse is usually "I don't sleep with guys on the first date" "This is too soon" "It takes me more time before I'm comfortable having sex with someone", etc. At some point they will say they have to leave and go home.

For Online, it's the same as the last two points of daygame. Occasionally I'll have a girl that I just don't like and end the date due to that too.

For Social Circle, I almost never fail. I usually wait until I have a good feeling about it to go for it, but I've also been stopped by LMR from social circle too.

Some of the dynamics vary a little bit in difference cities/countries.

I also often have to battle to retain girls due to attainability problems, but I'm working on that.

Experienced Level is....experienced? I have a lot of lays behind me, but I wouldn't consider my game level super advanced. I lose the vast majority of my leads because I just can't get them out on dates. They eventually stop responding over text. Once I get them out I close most of the time, but occasionally get stuck in LMR. And rarely can ever get a second date if I don't close on the first. In nightgame, I lose girls in several different places.

Honestly I second the whole post ( except for being experienced and having success in social circle, I lack both ).

In fact I have limited a lot my nightgame recently, because the failures in opening and hooking started to make it feel like a huge waste of time.

I have tried opening on dance floor, passing by approaches, direct interest, playful comments, but nothing seems to land properly. And even if I get into an interaction, it really feels that they are quite indifferent about anything more happening, like they may be there, having a nice time, but wouldn't really follow my lead.

From time to time I will have girls clearly sexually attracted to me, but then they also rarely agree to come back home when I go for the pull.

Also for daygame, going from phone number to date is a big issue. I still lose many girls at the approach, but those that seem receptive initially, and then don't even come out are the ones that truly frustrate me.

Then on dates I do have girls either not coming home or not sleeping with me when at home, but at least this latest article put some of the thoughts I had regarding that in order:

When Girls Won't Sleep with You at Your Place

When you bring back girls but they won’t sleep with you and end up leaving, why is that? It’s due to 3 reasons: lack of arousal, unresolved objections, and/or not liking you ‘like that’. A month and a half back, I asked the members of our forum for the various sticking points they were...

www.girlschase.com

Give it a check regarding the LMR issue.

All in all, I truly felt that someone was expressing a lot of my own experiences, so I wanted to double down on the post.

 

[TheEcho]

It was no secret I was floundering to even get girls out the past year and even though my overall life situation hasn't improved yet (gym is only viable place to meet and living at home still; lost a few months due to an ex-cofounder), I finally seem to have cracked the "getting them out" bit (again). I've found that for the gym you have to chat with a girl multiple times before asking out and the first chat should be very brief. Went from batting 0% to actually getting out every girl that was at least warm (quantity isn't very high, but I've gotten 4 out so far and several awaiting 2nd/3rd chats).

The next sticking point is getting the lay without my place or her place being an option (they've all lived with some form of family). Getting the kiss has been easy, but I was fumbling getting to the backseat. The first chick (despite 3 total dates) never would get in the back, second chick I didn't try because a potential medical issue ended a night that was going well otherwise (she auto-rejected), got the third chick in the back briefly, but it was hot as hell (boyfriend zoned), then the fourth chick I did get her in the back and had a great time kissing and feeling each other up, but didn't go all the way yet (I should be seeing her again tonight).

The top issue continues to be fixing my life situation and I do wish I would've cared more about that in my early 20's rather than mostly learning pickup, but c'est la vie. This 4th chick has been a great shot of confidence, though, as she's been super into me and is smart, comes from a good family, is in great shape, and we've had great chemistry so far (also, she's taller than me; really helps clear out residual redpill shit).

 

[rockstar]

Honestly I second the whole post ( except for being experienced and having success in social circle, I lack both ).

In fact I have limited a lot my nightgame recently, because the failures in opening and hooking started to make it feel like a huge waste of time.

I have tried opening on dance floor, passing by approaches, direct interest, playful comments, but nothing seems to land properly. And even if I get into an interaction, it really feels that they are quite indifferent about anything more happening, like they may be there, having a nice time, but wouldn't really follow my lead.

From time to time I will have girls clearly sexually attracted to me, but then they also rarely agree to come back home when I go for the pull.

Also for daygame, going from phone number to date is a big issue. I still lose many girls at the approach, but those that seem receptive initially, and then don't even come out are the ones that truly frustrate me.

Then on dates I do have girls either not coming home or not sleeping with me when at home, but at least this latest article put some of the thoughts I had regarding that in order:

When Girls Won't Sleep with You at Your Place

When you bring back girls but they won’t sleep with you and end up leaving, why is that? It’s due to 3 reasons: lack of arousal, unresolved objections, and/or not liking you ‘like that’. A month and a half back, I asked the members of our forum for the various sticking points they were...

www.girlschase.com

Give it a check regarding the LMR issue.

All in all, I truly felt that someone was expressing a lot of my own experiences, so I wanted to double down on the post.

Yeah, the overwhelming majority of my completely cold-approach nightgame lays were pretty borderline in terms of attractiveness and pretty interested as soon as I opened.

I enjoy cold approach a lot more than online (I hate texting a million girls). But nightgame requires staying up and often spending hours out each night, many nights without pulling. While online doesn’t fuck your sleep schedule as much and still gives good results.

I close probably 70% of my dates though. When I don’t, I think it’s always the objections issue? Like would girls be making out with me and dry humping me in their bed if they “didn’t see me like that” or weren’t aroused? Maybe I could get more arousal, but I don’t think that’s a weakness of mine.