What's your opinion on flaky numbers from daygame?

[bkw]

A little background:

I started cold-approaching girls again in the city during the day (daygame) in February of this year, after taking a few years off from dating in general. The first couple months I was dealing with excuses and AA, but now I'm in a place where I experience very little AA and am quite comfortable talking to girls with daygame.

I have lots of experience in the past doing DG but have never experienced such a flake-rate with phone numbers as I am now. I feel like I'm doing exactly what I used to do in the past, but I am experiencing worse results, so I'm not really sure why. I am in basically the same shape, just a little older. Currently, as mentioned, I'm at the stage where I can easily collect numbers but most of them are flaking.

I know the reasons for flaky numbers can be quite extensive, but I'd like to get some of your guys' opinions on why this might be happening? For example, last week I approach 50 girls, collected 15 numbers, but only 3 responded to my initial text. I know a part of it is that I'm forcing numbers, but what other reasons might be causing this you think, and how might I be able to improve? In the past I could do way fewer approaches, collect less numbers, and get more responses and dates.

Thanks

 

[average_daygamer]

Before Christmas, I went on a big daygame push. Averaging 12-15 approaches per week from the beginning of October till the end of December. Last approach 2 days before Christmas day.

This lead to 8 collected numbers, 1 where I gave the girl my number (whom messaged me on Christmas eve but I mistook it for spam and deleted it before I realised) so a total of 9 contacts in total.

About 5 numbers didn't reply to my initial message. The other 4 replied 1-3 times and then stopped replying.

Since then I've collected 3 more numbers in the January, two failed to reply to my opening text, 1 did agree to a meetup then flaked on the day.

I wish I had the answer, some would say stronger fundamentals, but I truly have no idea.

All I know is, the amount of approaches I have to do to get a number just to not reply, is obscene and the effort Vs reward ratio is not worth it.

When daygame is my main source of meeting women, it is not looking good, so any light being shed on the issue would certainly be helpful.

 

[Atlas IV]

Probably not the answer you're looking for, but it's just the nature of daygame. It ebs and flows.

Before last week I got 5 lays in the space of a couple of weeks, and had several promising leads

This week I'm doing daygame consistently and getting nothing. Plenty of numbers, but few responses.

I know that if I keep pushing, put in the reps, it'll click eventually and I'll be back in momentum again.

But it takes some serious strength of mind to push through those low periods where nothing seems to be working.

Remember the good ones and remind yourself that you'll get there again. All it takes is one awesome experience to lift your state again. Until then, you've gotta keep taking every opportunity you can.

 

[Will_V]

A little background:

I started cold-approaching girls again in the city during the day (daygame) in February of this year, after taking a few years off from dating in general. The first couple months I was dealing with excuses and AA, but now I'm in a place where I experience very little AA and am quite comfortable talking to girls with daygame.

I have lots of experience in the past doing DG but have never experienced such a flake-rate with phone numbers as I am now. I feel like I'm doing exactly what I used to do in the past, but I am experiencing worse results, so I'm not really sure why. I am in basically the same shape, just a little older. Currently, as mentioned, I'm at the stage where I can easily collect numbers but most of them are flaking.

I know the reasons for flaky numbers can be quite extensive, but I'd like to get some of your guys' opinions on why this might be happening? For example, last week I approach 50 girls, collected 15 numbers, but only 3 responded to my initial text. I know a part of it is that I'm forcing numbers, but what other reasons might be causing this you think, and how might I be able to improve? In the past I could do way fewer approaches, collect less numbers, and get more responses and dates.

Thanks

Post a field report of an approach you consider to be representative of the issue. There really are very many things involved.

The way I see it, when she doesn't respond to the icebreaker it's usually a situation where there was something missing or incongruent about your approach, that she couldn't rationalize at the time, but later on becomes a very strong intuition.

A typical case is where your vibe is off or she doesn't really feel you, even though you are 'smooth'. So she leaves with a sense that she just got run through a process rather than having a real conversation with a guy who genuinely wanted to meet her. Women have strong intuitions about these things.

I believe this is by far the most common reason for flakiness - that a guy tries to express things that he doesn't fully believe, or which somehow don't genuinely represent him, and his nonverbals betray the truth to the woman, even if she's not consciously aware of it. So her experience of him is tinged with a sense of unease.

But maybe that's not it in your case, so reports are always ideal.

 

[isildur1]

Try and secure the numbers on some form of social media -
Instagram
Kakao talk
WeChat

these enable to add photos in your stories and rehook women - instagram and WeChat for example are a great way to show through social media that your life is interesting

just the WhatsApp alone might leave you too scarce for her to follow up on you

and as atlas said there’s variance too

but for flakey numbers the instagram pipeline of posting stories and having them comment has resurrected dead leads before and i recommend everyone to get a good Instagram with 10-20 decent pics on it - it can do a world of good in terms of conversion

 

[KJ Francis]

What's your outfit look like?

Was your past day game success pre or post covid? Ever since remote work became so popular, even being back in the office is a more socially isolated environment. People who are down the hallway from each other will still meet virtually instead of meeting in the empty conference room. Home grocery delivery became way more popular too.

Maybe try a little more connection/similarity building. Small amount of screening/qualifying before proposing the day 2 and exchanging contacts. A bit more human connection. Just a KJ guess.

 

[Atlas IV]

A typical case is where your vibe is off or she doesn't really feel you, even though you are 'smooth'. So she leaves with a sense that she just got run through a process rather than having a real conversation with a guy who genuinely wanted to meet her. Women have strong intuitions about these things.

I believe this is by far the most common reason for flakiness - that a guy tries to express things that he doesn't fully believe, or which somehow don't genuinely represent him, and his nonverbals betray the truth to the woman, even if she's not consciously aware of it. So her experience of him is tinged with a sense of unease.

This sounds close to home for me. I've been watching a lot of this Chinese daygamer's content recently, trying to figure out their system based on using controlled aloofness or "keep", which follows a pretty different logic from game as we know it here (thread coming soon).

The problem is, even though I know it's an effective system with girls here, it's really not my style. I'm not congruent by being this cool aloof guy who keeps his emotions close to his chest for the sake of building attraction. I have to be genuine and a little vulnerable - that's what's always worked best for me.

Girls can sense that incongruence a mile off, and that's likely why they're flaking. Today I reverted back to my usual style of cold approach (based on genuine compliments and warm vibes), and I got some definitely stronger leads.

Lesson there is to be careful changing up your game too quickly or too drastically.

 

[Will_V]

This sounds close to home for me. I've been watching a lot of this Chinese daygamer's content recently, trying to figure out their system based on using controlled aloofness or "keep", which follows a pretty different logic from game as we know it here (thread coming soon).

The problem is, even though I know it's an effective system with girls here, it's really not my style. I'm not congruent by being this cool aloof guy who keeps his emotions close to his chest for the sake of building attraction. I have to be genuine and a little vulnerable - that's what's always worked best for me.

Girls can sense that incongruence a mile off, and that's likely why they're flaking. Today I reverted back to my usual style of cold approach (based on genuine compliments and warm vibes), and I got some definitely stronger leads.

Lesson there is to be careful changing up your game too quickly or too drastically.

Yeah I look at it as a style thing. It's not like you have to be some perfect authentic person, but it has to be your chosen 'character', the way you represent yourself has to be something that is connected to some part of you. Maybe it's in some ways a costume, but it's still your costume, the one you made for yourself, that you enjoy being in.

 

[bkw]

Probably not the answer you're looking for, but it's just the nature of daygame. It ebs and flows.

Before last week I got 5 lays in the space of a couple of weeks, and had several promising leads

This week I'm doing daygame consistently and getting nothing. Plenty of numbers, but few responses.

I know that if I keep pushing, put in the reps, it'll click eventually and I'll be back in momentum again.

But it takes some serious strength of mind to push through those low periods where nothing seems to be working.

Remember the good ones and remind yourself that you'll get there again. All it takes is one awesome experience to lift your state again. Until then, you've gotta keep taking every opportunity you can.

This is a very good response, and I would like to agree. In the meantime, I guess I'm a little "desperate" to see some results to prove to myself I can still do it.

I've been researching/contemplating into the reason for flakes, and I guess the best thing to do is to do the best with what I can control and allow the other things to just happen as they may, and then learn to be OK with that I guess.

Post a field report of an approach you consider to be representative of the issue. There really are very many things involved.

The way I see it, when she doesn't respond to the icebreaker it's usually a situation where there was something missing or incongruent about your approach, that she couldn't rationalize at the time, but later on becomes a very strong intuition.

A typical case is where your vibe is off or she doesn't really feel you, even though you are 'smooth'. So she leaves with a sense that she just got run through a process rather than having a real conversation with a guy who genuinely wanted to meet her. Women have strong intuitions about these things.

I believe this is by far the most common reason for flakiness - that a guy tries to express things that he doesn't fully believe, or which somehow don't genuinely represent him, and his nonverbals betray the truth to the woman, even if she's not consciously aware of it. So her experience of him is tinged with a sense of unease.

But maybe that's not it in your case, so reports are always ideal.

Another great response, one of which I also agree. Incongruence, inauthenticity, robotic, etc. Perhaps I will post an audio report if I get desperate enough in due time

Try and secure the numbers on some form of social media -
Instagram
Kakao talk
WeChat

these enable to add photos in your stories and rehook women - instagram and WeChat for example are a great way to show through social media that your life is interesting

just the WhatsApp alone might leave you too scarce for her to follow up on you

and as atlas said there’s variance too

but for flakey numbers the instagram pipeline of posting stories and having them comment has resurrected dead leads before and i recommend everyone to get a good Instagram with 10-20 decent pics on it - it can do a world of good in terms of conversion

I really have no social life beyond pickup, nor do I keep social media. I'm not motivated to do it, but you're probably right. In the past I didn't do these things, and it seemed to be OK though

What's your outfit look like?

Was your past day game success pre or post covid? Ever since remote work became so popular, even being back in the office is a more socially isolated environment. People who are down the hallway from each other will still meet virtually instead of meeting in the empty conference room. Home grocery delivery became way more popular too.

Maybe try a little more connection/similarity building. Small amount of screening/qualifying before proposing the day 2 and exchanging contacts. A bit more human connection. Just a KJ guess.

My outfit is good, and the same as it was when I was doing it in the past with results, so I don't think it's the outfit.

Considering the amount of dates and phone number responses in the past, it varied from week to week, but it wasn't something I would consider an issue. Now, I would consider it an issue IF it doesn't change over more time.

Yeah, I'll try more connection with the girl. I tend to do a little qualifying off the approaches. Do more of these things can't hurt!

 

[iceberg slim]

I have been wondering about this lately as well. I think part of the issue for me is I'm not all that jazzed on life at the moment. Specifically, my job is a thankless grind where I don't get much time off to go do exciting things like travel. It's this little hierarchy with lots of bullshit social dynamics. I also have some chronic low back and hip pain that further saps my vibe. And doing cold approach in my city is getting kind of boring (was way more fun on Colombia when I visited recently).

How do you think these factors effect my vibe when I cold approach? In my opinion, a lot! So my perspective on improving my results with cold approach is that I need to improve my overall life dynamic (while also improving my game, of course).

Are you happy with your life? Job? Physical health? Hobbies that you're passionate about? Variety to spice things up? I think all that matters, in addition to game. You mentioned you don't have a social life. I'd imagine that is negatively affecting your game. Humans need to have social lives, generally speaking. Mine isn't great either so I'm working on that.

Maybe in the past when you did better you were in a better place in life, and/or you were just more amped on cold approach which shined through in your interactions. 2 summers ago I was super pumped on both life and game and I got laid 6 times in 3 months including with 1 very hot chick. By my own standards, that was pretty good, and I haven't done nearly as well since (as my enthusaism waned).

Just my 2 cents

 

[isildur1]

This is a very good response, and I would like to agree. In the meantime, I guess I'm a little "desperate" to see some results to prove to myself I can still do it.

I've been researching/contemplating into the reason for flakes, and I guess the best thing to do is to do the best with what I can control and allow the other things to just happen as they may, and then learn to be OK with that I guess.


Another great response, one of which I also agree. Incongruence, inauthenticity, robotic, etc. Perhaps I will post an audio report if I get desperate enough in due time


I really have no social life beyond pickup, nor do I keep social media. I'm not motivated to do it, but you're probably right. In the past I didn't do these things, and it seemed to be OK though


My outfit is good, and the same as it was when I was doing it in the past with results, so I don't think it's the outfit.

Considering the amount of dates and phone number responses in the past, it varied from week to week, but it wasn't something I would consider an issue. Now, I would consider it an issue IF it doesn't change over more time.

Yeah, I'll try more connection with the girl. I tend to do a little qualifying off the approaches. Do more of these things can't hurt!

A lot of women I dated from daygame said they actively stalked my social media before agreeing to date me

You should have some social media sense on instagram or else you’re just asking to get flakes - there’s been numerous times I’ve re engaged dead leads thanks to social media

2018 I approached a Girl from Macau in London I got her Instagram and WeChat - she was in a relationship

2019 she dumped her boyfriend and when I was in Macau in late 2019 she asked to meet me

Had I just taken her whatsapp it would’ve been a dead lead - social media gave me the second chance

Another example

June 2018 approached a girl in Oxford street London- asked her out , she flaked before the date - October 2018 she comments on a story I made of champagne bottles and drinks- she says my birthday party preparations looks good and asks if she can come over- that night we fuck

both instances social media resurrected the situation - had I taken the WhatsApp’s only neither of these situations would have resulted in any success what so ever

so by having no social media you’re really leaving yourself isolated and with the girl having little chance to do research on you- a common sticking point with my wingmen is a lot of them have poor quality photos

I wrote a guide a while back about this issue https://mindful-masculinity.org/202...ial-media-guide-for-dating-and-relationships/

 

[isildur1]

A lot of women I dated from daygame said they actively stalked my social media before agreeing to date me

You should have some social media sense on instagram or else you’re just asking to get flakes - there’s been numerous times I’ve re engaged dead leads thanks to social media

2018 I approached a Girl from Macau in London I got her Instagram and WeChat - she was in a relationship

2019 she dumped her boyfriend and when I was in Macau in late 2019 she asked to meet me

Had I just taken her whatsapp it would’ve been a dead lead - social media gave me the second chance

Another example

June 2018 approached a girl in Oxford street London- asked her out , she flaked before the date - October 2018 she comments on a story I made of champagne bottles and drinks- she says my birthday party preparations looks good and asks if she can come over- that night we fuck

both instances social media resurrected the situation - had I taken the WhatsApp’s only neither of these situations would have resulted in any success what so ever

so by having no social media you’re really leaving yourself isolated and with the girl having little chance to do research on you- a common sticking point with my wingmen is a lot of them have poor quality photos

I wrote a guide a while back about this issue https://mindful-masculinity.org/202...ial-media-guide-for-dating-and-relationships/

I think an issue which alot of people make when they start out approaching women on the street is they don’t think of dating from the woman’s perspective they only think of it from their own



So in regards to approaching women on the street you gotta win and build rapport and convince the woman you’re a safe option to date- having social media profiles means the woman can do her research and be convinced you’re not some sort of loner freak or someone who’s going to rape her on the first date- having pics with other women, having pics with quality friends , travel photos etc. shows you have an interesting life that she wants to be a part of



And observing my female cousins in the UAE and the US they spend 90 percent of their time on instagram they barely use WhatsApp and are being dmed by high quality profiles - so you really need some sort of social media presence imo. Doesn’t mean you need to turn into a vain image obsessed person but just understand it’s an invaluable tool to make for reducing leads and effortlessly winning rapport if the photos are good



You still need to be consistent with approaches though- but personally 95 percent of my dates through daygame were cold approaches then using instagram and WeChat to warm up the leads I got. I rarely went for only the WhatsApp unless they specifically had no social media because I wanted the women I approached to see my interesting photos and to view my stories so that they could see I’m not some loser guy