What's new

When and How Much Should You Polarize?

Chase

Chieftan
Staff member
tribal-elder
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
6,234
Here’s a common issue I see guys run into: trying to decide how polarizing they should be. The general breakdown is:

  • Beginners: polarize a LOT, across the board
  • Journeymen: still polarize a lot, but start reeling it in and being more refined
  • Advanced: polarize in small, controlled doses – use it only when you need to free up a girl who’s on the fence with you or not moving forward

Now, one of the issues I see is guys skipping the polarization phase and going straight for “Be smooth, like a pro lady killer.” That’s all well and good, but the guys who go straight from “pushover nice guy” to “James Bond smooth” invariably end up sitting around trying to look cool and only modestly succeeding, like what I talked about here: Want Dates? Then Approach Girls.

If you’re starting out OR intermediate, you NEED to be more polarizing. Rule of thumb: if you’re getting laid with fewer than 2 new girls a month (and pickup is something you’re working on), you need to be more polarizing.

If you’re not working on it as devotedly and it’s more of a recreational thing for you, then disregard this unless/until you decide you’re setting your heart on getting this handled and being seriously good with girls is a major life goal. Then come back to this post and reread.

Once you reach the point where you’re sleeping with 2+ new girls a month, you can start really toning down and refining how polarizing you are so that it’s more targeted polarization; e.g., you peacock less extravagantly (i.e., rather than having items on you women will walk up and comment on, like the beginner wants to have to get more social touch points, wear things that look exceedingly cool but aren’t easily pinpointed as specifically cool in their own right as standalone items), you say fewer outlandish things, and the like.

The advanced guy uses polarization as a pattern interrupt with women who aren’t responding to his normal game. e.g., he’s talking to a girl and running his sexual attraction game on her and she’s just sitting there talking about it like she’s discussing a project at work. So he makes a ribald sex joke or puts his hand on her inner thigh momentarily in the midst of telling a story about sex and gauges her reaction. Had she been responding well in the first place, he might not have made as bold a move because there’s no need to rock the boat when it’s already moving along swiftly in the direction you want it going in.

And that’s the key determiner of whether you need to be polarizing people and women more: if you do nothing but your usual schtick, do you get the results you want?

If it’s “yes – I sleep with the women I want to sleep with and date the women I want to date and I’m happy with my close rate and consistency”, you’re at the point where being too polarizing will hurt more than it helps, by rocking a boat that’s already headed in the right direction.

If it’s “no – I don’t sleep with the women I want to sleep with or date the women I want to date, and/or I’m unhappy with my close rate / consistency”, then you need to be more polarizing: move faster, do things you’re not supposed to do, wear things you’re not supposed to wear, be outlandish. Obviously be smart if you’re places or with people that will have social repercussions for you (school, work, etc.), but if you’re heading to nightclubs or shopping districts in big cities where everyone’s anonymous, stretch your wings out a bit more and do things you wouldn’t normally do. No one learns to play piano by saying “I’m not comfortable moving my fingers like this, I don’t think I’m suited to musical instruments.” Success is the product of targeted discomfort.

Chase
 

Raqimus

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jun 22, 2014
Messages
460
Chase said:
Here’s a common issue I see guys run into: trying to decide how polarizing they should be. The general breakdown is:

  • Beginners: polarize a LOT, across the board
  • Journeymen: still polarize a lot, but start reeling it in and being more refined
  • Advanced: polarize in small, controlled doses – use it only when you need to free up a girl who’s on the fence with you or not moving forward

Now, one of the issues I see is guys skipping the polarization phase and going straight for “Be smooth, like a pro lady killer.” That’s all well and good, but the guys who go straight from “pushover nice guy” to “James Bond smooth” invariably end up sitting around trying to look cool and only modestly succeeding, like what I talked about here: Want Dates? Then Approach Girls.

If you’re starting out OR intermediate, you NEED to be more polarizing. Rule of thumb: if you’re getting laid with fewer than 2 new girls a month (and pickup is something you’re working on), you need to be more polarizing.

then you need to be more polarizing: move faster, do things you’re not supposed to do, wear things you’re not supposed to wear, be outlandish.

Success is the product of targeted discomfort.

Chase

So in a nutshell... that is polarizing and that is what I should be doing. Are there other polarizing things I can do?
 

Chase

Chieftan
Staff member
tribal-elder
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
6,234
Raqimus-

All kinds of polarizing things you can do:

  • Talk really loudly
  • Be an asshole
  • Come up with nicknames for people right away
  • Be extra physical with lots of touching
  • Shit-test girls and ask them to do things like buy you a drink
  • Do silly things like spin girls around
  • Kiss girls soon into meeting them
  • Physically escalate with women in public
  • Be very sexually direct / explicit
  • Act dramatically aloof / do backturns / takeaways
  • Use false time constraints and intermittently threaten to leave "I have to get going soon, but…"
  • State outlandish opinions ("I think national borders should be abolished")
  • Spike girls' emotions early on into conversation
  • Get your face really physically close to women's faces very quickly
  • Make large compliance demands early into conversation ("Come on, we're going to leave here and get pizza")
  • Invite girls home with you (or invite yourself to their places) 50% earlier in the conversation than you normally would and see what happens

The neat thing about stuff like this is that while much of the time it won't work, you'll frequently be surprised at how often it DOES work, which blows apart your own limitations and even shows you what "normal" actually is.

A cool note about this is that stuff that might seem polarizing to you when you start out actually ends up being a pretty laid back, natural, normal thing to you once you've been doing it a while, and it doesn't even polarize that much with girls.

Chase
 

fpt2k14

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
118
With all due respect, I don't think this works very well.

I used to polarize a lot my first year or so when I was an extreme newb and it would always backfire. Girls' friends would actually confront me because I'd say outlandish things. Even simple things such as "I think you have the sexiest pair of legs in this party" would always work against me. I reckon it was due to calibration because I would always say it at the wrong time and I wasn't very socially attuned. And that's putting it nicely.

I feel like that's the most important skill to learn early on. Calibration.

Or perhaps calibration and social intelligence is learned through fucking up repeatedly. Because boy, I made an ass out of myself every fucking day.
 

Franco

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Nov 14, 2012
Messages
3,637
fpt,

I feel like that's the most important skill to learn early on. Calibration.

Or perhaps calibration and social intelligence is learned through fucking up repeatedly. Because boy, I made an ass out of myself every fucking day.

Maybe this post can be titled better (or the point of it can be made more clear), but the reason Chase is talking about being polarizing is that it helps you develop social calibration. Social calibration isn't necessarily something that gets you women either -- in fact, lots of nice guys out there are "overly" socially calibrated to the point that they're aware of when they might offend or push too hard with a girl and receive some resistance, so they refrain from it.

The point of being polarizing is to push those boundaries to new levels; levels which you didn't know will actually give you success. Basically, if you're already socially calibrated to a certain degree, you're re-calibrating yourself to a level that actually sees success with women. If you're socially uncalibrated, then you're starting from scratch by going to the extremes (overly "nice" or overly "aggressive") so that you can start figuring out on your own where the middle ground might lie.

- Franco
 

Chase

Chieftan
Staff member
tribal-elder
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
6,234
Exactly.

Another way of defining polarization is just "try crazy stuff that forces people to react". If you're an artist, the advice would be "be wild and experimental when new". If you're a sports player, it'd be "try all kinds of crazy shots and see what happens". If you're starting a new company, it'd be "try out every wild new good idea you have that won't bankrupt you or suck you into a time sink because you have no way of knowing which one's going to be the hit that makes you big".

The opposite advice is "be very careful not to rock the boat", which, if you give that to a beginner in any field, stifles him. By the time a guy's good, rocking the boat is bad for him, because he's operating from a paradigm assembled over the years through which he gets a pretty reliable rate of return. Any given new thing he tries is liable to backfire, and adding new pieces reaches a point of diminishing returns.

For the established guy, the paradigm has reversed: Picasso doesn't suddenly start painting like Andy Warhol, Tiger Woods doesn't wake up one day and switch all his irons around, Tim Cook doesn't walk into a board meeting one day and announce that Apple's going to start operating like U.S. Steel. As you get better at what you do, the opportunity cost of being polarizing rises. Still good to include some targeted polarization so that you're finding the areas of improvement you hadn't previously cornered, but they need to be part of an overall framework that largely maintains your hard-won-and-still-working-fine personal status quo.

But when a guy's new, and his existing paradigm is a crappy one, sticking to the status quo and trying not to do anything too extreme basically ensures you only get incrementally better at being mediocre - so it's important to polarize more and figure out what works for you and what doesn't.

Chase
 

fpt2k14

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
118
Okay, got it.

It's like the saying..."You cannot be old & wise if you're never young & wild"

I thought Chase was providing a technique in which the beginner would say outlandish things to seem more polarizing, or like he doesn't give a fuck. Which, incidentally, was something I did often.

And it wasn't pretty.
 

Edd--19

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
169
This is great. I've been looking for a post like this for a while, I was never sure what it was.

I always assumed that being an asshole was the best way to be polarising but considering the list you've stated it doesn't seem very "asshole-ish" more "I'm having fun right now, so what" kind of attitude. Is there a post up on the main page of GC or not? If there is do you mind linking it, I'm struggling to find it.

Also, with regards to the vibe, how should all of these things come off? I assume that doing these things with a needy vibe comes off as very creepy and will get me laid as fast as Pluto orbiting the Sun.

I have a feeling that this reinforces outcome independence in guys who try it. As we get more positive results from trying these things we learn to enjoy ourselves and to keep testing new things which lead to better times.
 

Sophisticated Gent

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Aug 5, 2015
Messages
430
This should be explained to beginners. They need to understand that pushing their envelope will help them learn what is acceptable rather than what they think is acceptable.
 

foggy

Modern Human
Modern Human
Joined
Jul 20, 2015
Messages
1,532
I've been trying out all the examples of polarizing Chase provided. They're working well!

Does anyone have any more examples?
 

TheChased

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Aug 18, 2015
Messages
65
The thing about polarizing is that you also learn WHEN things are appropriate to say or do. I have a friend of mine who says things that are outlandish, but at the wrong moment, so people give him weird looks and stuff. But as I've done this my whole life, then I know when I can talk about really fucked up shit, I know when it's appropriate. So I have said the exact same things, but at the right moment and gotten laughter/sexy looks instead of insults/weird looks.

Mr.Rob said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqoAtzTIgGA

THIS is a great example of being polarizing. Go and do likewise.

-Rob

I liked the video, I'm thinking of doing some more polarizing when it comes to doing. I think I have a great grasp on talking, but not so much on doing. I can ask girls for a kiss on the cheek, and get it. But not stuff like putting my hand on her legs and those kind of things. So I learn when and what stuff like this works, I've found I can be a little passive at times. Like Franco mentioned, being too social calibrated can hurt you, and I think that's where I am at the moment. Totally gonna go out and do this today, great post!

-TC
 
you miss 100% of the shots you don't take

Dern

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
278
Thanks for the list of examples Chase!

I definitely need to be more polarizing!
 

Hue

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Sep 21, 2016
Messages
1,556
bumping this.

have been doing many of the things listed here, examining will give me some new tactics as well as things I should refine / cut back on
 
Top