Date Plans When does calibrated persistence become needy chasing?

[Bismarck]

It seems there is room for persistence - and in fact that some girls require that persistence, as they don't make themselves easily available - but it can be difficult to tell how much leeway there is before persistence boils over into needy chasing.

So for instance, I recently had a fling with a hot Japanese musician (mid-twenties) where I had to always initiate texting, and she gave often succinct if not one-word answers, but she was always willing to meet up, until she wasn't. Then again, we never crossed the 5 bangs threshold which is apparently required (according to TomInHo) for her to start focusing on you and initiating shit back. Also, my sex game needs work at the moment. Point being, persistence got me results there.

Another case study is this tall hot blonde blue-eyed EE chick I approached in the subway station after seeing her in the tramcar and us getting out at the same stop about 2 weeks ago. I got her name for Microsoft Teams after a brief chat in the subway station/on our way to our office building, then pinged her on the app, sent her my digits asking her to text me on WhatsApp, and then, after complimenting her display pic on WhatsApp, went for logistics to arrange our meet, and soon she was all "looking forward" and shit.

We had a 1.5/2-hour date at a bar where she ordered a juice (as did I). When attempting to bounce her out of there I interpreted her resistance as rejection and switched plans to a "content myself with showing her I have a penis and settling for day two" vibe, where I ended up making out (briefly) with her thrice, handholding, holding her waist as we walked, and rubbing her arm. She reacted very positively to all this. Before switching to the makeout plan, I told her I wanted to see her again and she agreed to meet next (this) week, before going on holidays.

After a bit of back and forth (me texting her "let me know when you arrive home," her responding "I'm home" and then me texting back "ok good" the next day followed by a screenshot with callback to something we'd spoken about on the date and her responding with another screenshot, I texted her "next week I'll take you to one of the places you don't know in the center" (it had transpired that she doesn't know the best venues in the center very well) and she hasn't replied.

In this instance, should I persist by texting her again, something like "Are we gonna go on our second date or are we gonna keep pretending the first date never happened?" or simply "When are you back in town?" or should I lay low? This is a girl who probably gets chased a fair bit so likely has her pick of the litter. I thought I could follow Cialidini's "Law of Scarcity" of being different to 99% of guys by displaying non-neediness and going MIA when she doesn't keep up investment, but in the process, I might be closing a door because I know some chicks need to be chased a bit before they give in (like, it's a test of the man's strength of will or something). I'm happy to forget about her if this is the soundest course of action.

 

[POB]

After a bit of back and forth (me texting her "let me know when you arrive home," her responding "I'm home" and then me texting back "ok good" the next day followed by a screenshot with callback to something we'd spoken about on the date

Missed window here IMO Biz.
The second you asked for strong text compliance, she gave it to you.
You should've went straight for the date there.

 

[Chad Tyrone]

In this instance, should I persist by texting her again, something like "Are we gonna go on our second date or are we gonna keep pretending the first date never happened?" or simply "When are you back in town?" or should I lay low? This is a girl who probably gets chased a fair bit so likely has her pick of the litter. I thought I could follow Cialidini's "Law of Scarcity" of being different to 99% of guys by displaying non-neediness and going MIA when she doesn't keep up investment, but in the process, I might be closing a door because I know some chicks need to be chased a bit before they give in (like, it's a test of the man's strength of will or something). I'm happy to forget about her if this is the soundest course of action.

That would be needy.Sounds like u r being pushy there.Besides you as the man are the prize.It's you giving her a chance.

But yeah could ask her casually when she'll be back in town and semi-bhic text her.Something like "cool let's meet up once you are back in town .Shoot me a message and we'll set something up or gonna check in with you at some point."

The last bit leaves the door open for you to text her back in case she doesn't reach out to you.In case she does it herself she's interested.Not to mean that it's a lost cause for you if you do it yourself.

Also if she'll be back in a month's time ...give her some more days before reaching out ut to her.If it's immediately after she's back ...it kinda feels that u were waiting for her which defeats the purpose of semi-bhicing her.

At times chicks do play games it's not a "I'll meet up with the guy who texts me regularly and will wait for me " kinda thing really.

As an aside:

Once had a chick who would agree to all my date invites,heck even confirmation and anti-flake texts.Yet when it's time to meet up she ghosts me.She did it twice and I figured she's leading me along .Btw @Chase what causes this...

It does pay to know when it's going nowhere with a chick and bailing on her.Of course after fully bhicing her.You put it in your time.She knows what to do if she wants you (i.e reach out to you).

So yeah semi-bhic her and focus on other leads.Don't forget to leave the door a bit open

Chad Tyrone

 

[Skills]

It seems there is room for persistence - and in fact that some girls require that persistence, as they don't make themselves easily available - but it can be difficult to tell how much leeway there is before persistence boils over into needy chasing.

So for instance, I recently had a fling with a hot Japanese musician (mid-twenties) where I had to always initiate texting, and she gave often succinct if not one-word answers, but she was always willing to meet up, until she wasn't. Then again, we never crossed the 5 bangs threshold which is apparently required (according to TomInHo) for her to start focusing on you and initiating shit back. Also, my sex game needs work at the moment. Point being, persistence got me results there.

Does not take 5 bangs, 2-3, thominho is saying for guys with less skills but that is stretch, context, also i don't know if your style of texting is what cause you the "persistence" (text to meet), unless is the cultural angle like with discuss in the kiss without escalation were everyone notice with some asian/japanese women more passive you need to game different and put more "persistence" vs other cultures... I think is more also something in the bedroom... Anyways, i know what you are meaning initiating texting but pinging simple mornings should do or any other low level ping, and gauging reactions.....

Another case study is this tall hot blonde blue-eyed EE chick I approached in the subway station after seeing her in the tramcar and us getting out at the same stop about 2 weeks ago. I got her name for Microsoft Teams after a brief chat in the subway station/on our way to our office building, then pinged her on the app, sent her my digits asking her to text me on WhatsApp, and then, after complimenting her display pic on WhatsApp, went for logistics to arrange our meet, and soon she was all "looking forward" and shit.

We had a 1.5/2-hour date at a bar where she ordered a juice (as did I). When attempting to bounce her out of there I interpreted her resistance as rejection and switched plans to a "content myself with showing her I have a penis and settling for day two" vibe, where I ended up making out (briefly) with her thrice, handholding, holding her waist as we walked, and rubbing her arm. She reacted very positively to all this. Before switching to the makeout plan, I told her I wanted to see her again and she agreed to meet next (this) week, before going on holidays.

^ this was good

After a bit of back and forth (me texting her "let me know when you arrive home," her responding "I'm home" and then me texting back "ok good" the next day followed by a screenshot with callback to something we'd spoken about on the date and her responding with another screenshot, I texted her "next week I'll take you to one of the places you don't know in the center" (it had transpired that she doesn't know the best venues in the center very well) and she hasn't replied.

This was a bit the mistake^ putting pressure to meet you again, that is what she is not responding creating anxiety of the meet (this is normal no biggie) i would not have send that screen shot with is opening with a soft close format in a screen shot.... I would have rather open>banter>maybe at high point of interaction send that screen shot (soft close) >hard close... what you did bismark is open with a screenshot aka open with a softclose barely works for any girl or anybody right away....

In this instance, should I persist by texting her again, something like "Are we gonna go on our second date or are we gonna keep pretending the first date never happened?" or simply "When are you back in town?" or should I lay low? This is a girl who probably gets chased a fair bit so likely has her pick of the litter. I thought I could follow Cialidini's "Law of Scarcity" of being different to 99% of guys by displaying non-neediness and going MIA when she doesn't keep up investment, but in the process, I might be closing a door because I know some chicks need to be chased a bit before they give in (like, it's a test of the man's strength of will or something). I'm happy to forget about her if this is the soundest course of action.

^ not good man, follow structure open/ping>banter>softclose>hard close...

 

[Skills]

Missed window here IMO Biz.
The second you asked for strong text compliance, she gave it to you.
You should've went straight for the date there.

had to delete previous answer.... pob i don't think is ideal to go for date after the date when she just go from a date saying "i am home" ...... She is replying to the text me when you get home, going right there for the date meh...

 

[Bismarck]

Thanks for the replies guys!

@POB I think you’re right, striking while the iron is hot, if I wanted to see her this week (could even have settled on a day while I was walking her to the subway) would have been ideal

@Chad Tyrone interesting take on the whole chasing analogy - yeah maybe there is no situation where a guy can chase that is attractive

@Skills the screenshot was about the benefits of drinking raw milk, she was ball-busting me about that on the date (I had told her “it wouldn’t work out between us” so it’s understandable..) and she sent me a screenshot back with the counterargument that drinking milk can cause cancer, so I didn’t soft close straight away, was using the screenshot thing to build rapport/take her back to the date, before going for the close.

Ok so this is probably still salvageable when back from hols but would probs have to do another first date as she won’t even remember kissing me FML

 

[POB]

had to delete previous answer.... pob i don't think is ideal to go for date after the date when she just go from a date saying "i am home" ...... She is replying to the text me when you get home, going right there for the date meh...

Oh fuck, my bad, I thought she was traveling and you guys were setting a day 02 after her return to town!!!
(I'm sorry, it was autistic from my part)
@Bismarck , forget my previous comment, Skills is right here.

 

[Skills]

Thanks for the replies guys!

@POB I think you’re right, striking while the iron is hot, if I wanted to see her this week (could even have settled on a day while I was walking her to the subway) would have been ideal

@Chad Tyrone interesting take on the whole chasing analogy - yeah maybe there is no situation where a guy can chase that is attractive

@Skills the screenshot was about the benefits of drinking raw milk, she was ball-busting me about that on the date (I had told her “it wouldn’t work out between us” so it’s understandable..) and she sent me a screenshot back with the counterargument that drinking milk can cause cancer, so I didn’t soft close straight away, was using the screenshot thing to build rapport/take her back to the date, before going for the close.

Ok so this is probably still salvageable when back from hols but would probs have to do another first date as she won’t even remember kissing me FML

Oh i see! Yea with the tall girl you did nothing wrong that was fine.... wait 48 hours and ping....

 

[Skills]

Oh fuck, my bad, I thought she was traveling and you guys were setting a day 02 after her return to town!!!
(I'm sorry, it was autistic from my part)
@Bismarck , forget my previous comment, Skills is right here.

Yea i got confused to...

 

[Bismarck]

Oh i see! Yea with the tall girl you did nothing wrong that was fine.... wait 48 hours and ping....

What do you mean? My last text was sent on 13 July, so exactly 7 days ago…

 

[Skills]

What do you mean? My last text was sent on 13 July, so exactly 7 days ago…

Wow and you did not ping... you need to ping...but yeah seems she is ghosting all you can do is ping....

 

[Bismarck]

Pinged yesterday and she’s ignoring.

Next time I’ll settle on the day, time, and place of the second meet while still on the first date with her.

Then can just continue building rapport/maintaining compliance/flirting over text until the second meet.

 

[topcat]

Next time I’ll settle on the day, time, and place of the second meet while still on the first date with her.

Personally, i like to stray away from getting a girl to commit to a set date and time in the future (unless the next date is within 3 days or so). It creates a box for her to squirm out of should something come up on that day (or should she have a mood change, being the girl she is).

That’s bad for several reasons. Being:

1. you become an obstacle to evade
2. makes her anxious when she needs to create an excuse to reschedule, or not see you that day
3. initiates negative momentum and sets you up as the chaser as you try to pin her down on another date

Better to set a good impression on the date, leave her wanting and then pace her towards another meet (ideally at your place) with pinging (as suggested), good banter and an eventual soft close for a date she was hoping would manifest.

Trying to pin a chick down in her schedule is very business like and robs her of a proper seduction. Lower odds

 

[Skills]

Personally, i like to stray away from getting a girl to commit to a set date and time in the future (unless the next date is within 3 days or so). It creates a box for her to squirm out of should something come up on that day (or should she have a mood change, being the girl she is).

That’s bad for several reasons. Being:

1. you become an obstacle to evade
2. makes her anxious when she needs to create an excuse to reschedule, or not see you that day
3. initiates negative momentum and sets you up as the chaser as you try to pin her down on another date

Better to set a good impression on the date, leave her wanting and then pace her towards another meet (ideally at your place) with pinging (as suggested), good banter and an eventual soft close for a date she was hoping would manifest.

Trying to pin a chick down in her schedule is very business like and robs her of a proper seduction. Lower odds

Yea and there are girls that even with anything gone right post sex they will reply to couple of messages and ghost no matter what....we do the same to.women, i fucked women sex was good, they did nothong wrong, they texted.u reply and ghosted... now bis if sex is amazing to her lower odds of this happening...but still happens...unfortanetely sometimes with the girl we want the most...

 

[Bismarck]

Better to set a good impression on the date, leave her wanting and then pace her towards another meet (ideally at your place) with pinging (as suggested), good banter and an eventual soft close for a date she was hoping would manifest.

Could you give a practical example of how this typically would pan out for you so I can learn to do similar?

Cheers!

 

[Chad Tyrone]

Pretty much agree with what @topcat says.Setting up the second date while on the first kinda makes you come across chasey especially if the chick seems less interested in you.

But yeah it comes down to her interest level mostly.If she seems interested yeah sure go ahead and set up a second one.You want to calibrate to her interest level .

You have to get buy-in first...kinda soft closing her .During a high note and she seems interested in you you can tell her that you are really enjoying talking to her, and are down to do it /see her again .

If she says yes that she'll also be down to see you again,you agree and say ,"Sure, we'll set something up".

What this does for you is that you maintain your mystery and intrigue.

Then once you have parted and after some few hours you can shoot her something like"Dinner was fun.Bet u made it safe to yours"

If she responds back enthusiastically you can then give her the details of your next date...I.e (time and place)

So get buy-in on the first or second date(if u may be going for a third one) then set up a time and place over text.

With less interested girls ,you want the "less fun" date to fade away from her mind.Give it time then ping her again and see if she's down to meet.

You don't have to send them a post -date text telling them it was fun when u both know it wasn't .So far better if you'll use the text with interested girls who seem to be into you but logistics or something else won't allow you to close on the first -date.

Sometimes there are girls you won't be sure if they are interested in you or they are worried themselves you aren't interested in them .Shoot them the text (post -date) helps from losing some of them to auto-rejection.

Wish you best,
Chad Tyrone

 

[topcat]

Could you give a practical example of how this typically would pan out for you so I can learn to do similar?

Cheers!

Sure.

You’re on a date with girl, things are positive but the pull isn’t there. You wrap things up and go your separate ways.

her mentality should hopefully be something like “wow he’s cute and that date was fun, i wonder if I’ll see him again..”

You tell her to text you when she gets home, so you know she made it safe.

she gets home and texts you “Home now Bismarck. Have a good night!”

Bismarck: “glad you got home safe chica night”

She messaged you when she got home. This gives you intel, that she’s compliant and likely open to the idea of meeting again..

cool.

—————— next day or 2 later ————

Ping

Bismarck: [purpose of a ping is to get early compliance with as little effort as possible, and to gauge her temperature and interest level

Chica: Morning!

Bismarck: such a gorgeous day. woke up so fresh this morning. hope ur days off to as good a start as mine [getting more compliance whilst setting a positive tone..]

Chica: it totally is! blah blah blah my boss blah blah blah so i have to blah blah blah i’m excited

Bismarck: no way! so do you blah blah blah [tease a little. flirt a little if you want. but just continue to provide positive vibes; the intent is to reward her for the compliance she’s giving you currently]

Chica: Omg! haha noooo but blah blah blah [good. things are still positive she’s still complying time to wrap it up and soft close in a high note..]

Bismarck: we should totally grab a drink this week blah blah blah justified by something related to what she said above [this is your soft close. you’re rewarding her overall compliance with the opportunity to see her again and testing her readiness to see you again]

Chica: I’d love that

Bismarck: perfect. how’s your schedule looking this week

…

in the case your ping gets ignored

try again in three days. random emojis work well here or 🫧 or another

rinse and repeat

if she’s busy in response to your soft close (say she’s away that week)

Bismarck: ay no worries we’ll work something out. enjoy ur trip

ping her again in a few days to a week. if it’s a longer trip ping her once on her trip to check in and get her investing, sending you pics of her trip and generally getting some more compliance WITHOUT soft closing

ping her again when she lands following the process with the intent to soft close


Hope that helps g!

 

[Bismarck]

Thanks for that tomcat!

Is there a way to do this so that, via text pinging and flirting, the date is set directly at my place?

 

[topcat]

Thanks for that tomcat!

Is there a way to do this so that, via text pinging and flirting, the date is set directly at my place?

No worries mate.

To get her out to yours, lay the groundwork for it in your soft close..

for example:

Bismarck (soft close): “i’ve got this lovely bottle of pinot grigio i bought last night, you should join me for a glass”

the more compliance you got in the text exchange + the stronger your face to face interaction was + her current buying temperature determines how readily this invite will be received..

If she’s not comfortable she may respond with something like “at your place?”

Bismarck: “yup”

she may respond with “sure” or “why not”

if she’s not keen you may get a “umm.. i don’t feel comfortable going to to yours just yet..”

you respond to this with:

“no worries, i totally understand why don’t we do drinks at a cosy pub and see how we vibe” (this is a good template for a softclose in general… shout to @Skills on the tech)

make sure this venue is near your place, gauge her temperature, watch for escalation windows and pull to yours as a natural escalation of good vibes (listen to music/enjoy some pastries/check out your library)

Topcat

 

[POB]

One thing I noticed is that, when she is not giving you too much to work with, sometimes it's wise to pull back.
Like, you send a good vibes text.
"Wow, nice one, that was amazing. How did you feel about it?"
She answers with :"Fine"
If you are texting a lot, and she is giving you two or three answers like this ^^^, one after the other, just let it be.
Wait 2-3 days and reengage later with a low effort ping.