When girls say "we're not sluts, we're entitled to have an sex too"

[ILoveElla]

Some of the girls I sleep with, I view them as sluts. Although I may like them a lot as well, and depend upon them to get laid, I'm in effect ruling them out as a girlfriend because I've gotten the chance to sleep with them so easily. I guess many womanizers think this too.

But my question is, what if this topic comes up? Lets say there's a group of us around a table some night, and(for argument's sake) some girl mentions something along the lines of: "it's so unfair the way girls who enjoy an active sex life are considered as sluts". At such a point, should I step in and be untruthful to myself by saying "I would not judge women for being free in what ever way they want with their own bodies"??? It is, after all, what they want to hear, and it would be possible to say so without it looking like I'm just hoping to get some action from them. And then the hope would be, that since they don't want to feel slut shamed while having sex, that they might one day choose me for sex.

But then again, I can't help but wonder what would happen if I simply, and politely, called a spade a spade here, instead of indulging and lying to them. Because you don't want to just sit there and let them ware your hears out. Usually if a girl said anything like this before, I just kept my mouth shut, or quickly moved on to talking about something else.

I guess I do think that any girl who is objectified by a stranger during a one night stand is a slut. In my view, perhaps it's the price they pay to being able to get sex so easily. If women have the to whine about this, then men should have the right to whine about how getting sex can be so hard. That wouldn't sound very cool if they did(hence they can't), but nonetheless, if it was said, they wouldn't quickly be accused of having a sexually frustrated sense of male entitlement.

The question I pose here is a very very minor issue in the greater struggle to get laid, and it stems from the idea that I like to think that the reason people like me(or the reason I get laid) is because people understand me and where I'm coming from. However that may have nothing to do with it, and when ever I do get laid with a girl, it's probably more so to do with her thinking of herself than anything about me. The moment she decides to sleep with me, she probably couldn't give a damn what my opinions i have on free love!!!!

 

[Mr.Rob]

Interesting topic you bring up and one I've always found intriguing Iloveella.

It seems like the vast, vast majority of our culture seems to hold the belief that "women that give it up easy are sluts".

It's social conditioning to get women to fit in better and not all be crazy nymphomaniacs. At least to my understanding that the reason I just came up with.

The way I see it is that women will act according to the role you allow them to fill. They are like water and you the cup. If your cup is round and wide they'll fill it (slutty for all sakes/purposes of the metaphor) and if the cup is long and narrow they'll fill it as well (acting like the pristine angel). The cool thing is that you get to choose what cup you are.

The real truth from what I've seen is that given the right circumstances all women will engage in a ONS given the right circumstances (unless they're super religious).

All those girls that you think are little sweethearts that have had sex with only 4 guys and all were boyfriends are probably just lying to you because you are forcing them to (they have to fit in the cup).

I've picked up and have had sex with girls that have boyfriends that think they are little perfect angels and those girls held out for them. But yet when a guy with game comes along (and if they aren't getting their needs met sexually) they don't hold out for a second with them because the glass doesn't force them to.

You really think your little sweetheart pristine angel has never had a ONS?

Sex is in our biology in males and females. We're practically programmed to have sex.

I think the reason most men slut shame is because they have some bitterness/jealousy towards women or a particular women in general and slut shame to justify and rationalize their situation (that they don't particularly like). Of course you also have the guys that just buy into the social conditioning that has been rammed into our brains since we were 3 years old but that's a different group in itself.

Like a lot of guys when their girlfriend breaks up with them and that girl goes out and maybe finds a casual partner afterwards the guy will slut shame her to justify his loss and jealousy. I've seen this personally quite a few times.

Interesting discussion Iloveella though I think your beliefs could be partially hiding from the truth. Women love sex and there probably aren't that many girls (besides the super religious ones) that haven't had a ONS with a sexy stranger. It's kind of like a bucket list thing I'd imagine for women.

Anyway curious as to your thoughts on this!

-Rob

 

[Franco]

ILE,

Rob did a pretty good job of covering my sentiments on the matter. Social conditioning vs. true sexual desire is the real internal struggle that most men and women face in today's society. Learning how to "mold your cup" (going off of Rob's metaphor) by being completely open-minded about everything is ultimately what will allow you to understand people better (and fulfill more of your own personal desires).

- Franco

 

[Chase]

Ella-

This post inspired an exploration on why men label women sluts here: "Why Do We Label Women “Sluts”?"

In answer to your question itself though - depends on your objectives, of course, but if it's just debating, I don't really see this as a debate worth having. There's no possible benefit from it; the best you can expect is a draw; and no matter the outcome, the women will walk out of it knowing that around you, they need to act like angels and not put out before the umpteenth date.

If you want to sleep with them, either be bored and don't even engage in the conversation, or come out and talk about how you embrace female sexuality and most guys are just too insecure (read some of Alek's articles; this is something he does a LOT). This is worth doing if you want improvement with women; you may not like "slutty women" right now, but the experience helps you out down the road and you'll be glad to have it once your views change a little later on (see also: "Lower Your Standards (and Date Hotter Girls)."

Chase

 

[ILoveElla]

Anyway curious as to your thoughts on this!

-Rob

I wasn't sure what sort of reaction this thread going to get, but your answer was good.

Just in the way a girl will let a guy lie to her about if he's cheating, us men can easily lie to ourselves by having a girl let on that she hasn't slept around. This makes me think of a girl that I have a crush on at the moment, and I can see myself already wanting to believe she's different... because it suits me. It's like as if I want her to sus me out, so she can tell me what I want to hear.

Of course changing the shape of your cup is the hard part, but I'd have to start by pretending that I'm okay with girls having free love. Worst case scenario, she might then think I'm shallow and disregard me as boyfriend material and I mightn't get anything either way!! You see??? that's why I keep my mouth shut. What would you say if women brought up the issue of free love?

I might have been wrong initially. Perhaps other players DON'T look upon loose women as being sluts. I sort of do, but I wouldn't regard myself as a player... I haven't slept with that many women. You see, since players are so used to this sort of behavior from woman, they might consider it to be the norm, as opposed to being shameful behavior.

I suppose that means that the only reason women do avoid sex is(apart from getting pregnant) due to being considered sluts. I can only imagine that if I were a woman, that I'd probably go away off on holidays and shag a few strangers, and on my return I would happily belittle other women who behave in a slutty manner!!

 

[Franco]

ILE,

I suppose that means that the only reason women do avoid sex is(apart from getting pregnant) due to being considered sluts. I can only imagine that if I were a woman, that I'd probably go away off on holidays and shag a few strangers, and on my return I would happily belittle other women who behave in a slutty manner!!

You nailed it.

Worst case scenario, she might then think I'm shallow and disregard me as boyfriend material and I mightn't get anything either way!! You see??? that's why I keep my mouth shut. What would you say if women brought up the issue of free love?

Free love ≠ open sexuality.

These are two different topics, and talking to a girl about how "everyone should be able to love everyone!" will likely just get you labeled as a hippie (and whether or not she feels fondly about that might depend on her personality).

Being open sexually is a different story. You can talk about how people shouldn't be shamed for their decision to have sex with someone they find attractive when it's their true desire (regardless of whether it stems from love or pure animal lust) and have women open up to you because of your ability to be non-judgmental, which she will determine as a safeguard to her reputation should she decide to sleep with you.

Being disregarded as boyfriend material is fine (and actually what you want), since girls will still consider you for the boyfriend role if you sleep with them and provide them with amazing sexual experiences. Remember, girls aren't robots -- their decisions are made upon their emotions, so even if their first emotion is, "oh, this guy totally wouldn't be good boyfriend material for me, but he is pretty sexy," their emotion AFTER a few amazing sexual experiences with you can be, "wow, this guy is so relaxed and good in bed... I've never met anyone quite like him. I want to keep seeing him!"

So to sum this up, a girl can still make a boyfriend out of a guy she initially thought would never be suitable as one. And discussing open sexuality is more likely to take you out of the boyfriend role and get you closer to actually sleeping with a girl, ultimately bringing you much closer to BEING her boyfriend (if you desire to).

- Franco