When to end the first date (in France)

[shockbroker]

Hi,

I've been daygaming steadily for the past 3 months and making quite decent progress. This week has been the best so far resulting in 4 dates of which I've had sex with 2. Before that though I've been on quite a plateau where I did not get that many girls to actually see me again after I got the number, and I've had 6 dates in a row where I didn't have sex. That really sucked lol. But I've had some epiphanies and I'm really feeling that my game is on the next level now.

For context: Briefly, I am a 32 your old good looking Dutch man living in Paris, France. I've been gaming (obsessively) since 1 1/2 years with a 4 month break to have a comitted relationship, which I ended 3 months ago. Before my 4 moth relationship I had sex with a new girl every month, which is decent for a beginner but given the time I spent, and spend on gaming it should be much better and it's going to be I've done lots of night game before but my game now consists of street approaches where I get the number in 1 to 3 minutes. I only approach the hotties and I would say I get the number in 1/3 of my approaches. My fundamentals are excellent (tractor beam eyecontact, voice tone and projection (I used to be a singer), body language (me and my wings videotape each other to check this and improve) and fashion / style (my ex was a fashion designer and I have a full wardrobe from France's top fashion house), also I am very modest lol.

The girls are all very desirable, all pretty and generally aroud 20 years old. I'm not going for the real easy lays here where the girl is 3 points below me in physical attractiveness and I'm basically giving her a present by having sex with her..


I have a question though. Chase writes extensively about having sex on the first date and how it's basially the only way to go. And I've made this my strategy. I've created a pretty good date template where I get the girl to my metro stop to drink wine in the park 50 metres from my appartment. As I said I'm dressed rediculously expensive, fake $4000 watch to match the outfit as well lol, I'm a big believer in conspicuous consumption. So basically I know when they come that they're attracted. I don't 'game' too much, I just keep the conversation on her with some innuendo and emotional spikes while disqualifying myself as a BF by tellin her I'm very busy, my last GF broke up with me 2 weeks ago because I only had time to see her once a week, and I'm preparing to move to Argentina in not too long.

I seed the pull very simply by talking about music. then after 2 glasses of wine I tell them to come listen to some music. Sometimes I have to persist a little because the girl deliberately misinterprets what I'm saying but in the end it never fails.

Back in my room I kiss her within 5 minutes and just start escalating 2 steps forward 1 step back. Now that I've had lots of dates in a short timespan I am getting back into the routine of the physical escalation which makes it a lot smoother than when I was on my little dry spell. But still, at the moment, half of the girls I take into my room I do not end up having sex with. This is not due to them freaking the fuck out as soon as I start escalating, but rather the problem consits of them wanting to keep their pants on. This means I'm touching all the bases, inclluding fingering over the pants, but the girl end up leaving anyway because 'it is too soon'. Then when she leaves it's basically on her terms, she is the one ending it. Should I stop before? Use better chase frames? Disqualify as BF more?

Now, I haven't really bothered to see them again as I was too busy dating new girls but my friends who are locals tell me it's pretty normal for girls not wanting to put out on the first date and I should just meet them again.

Anyone with any experience on this in France or other Latin-ish countries? Is it different than Germanic / Anglo Saxon culture? Should I see these girls again? I don't wanna waste my time with none-promising prospects but on the other hand the girls are hot and I'd wait till the 2nd date if I had to... not te 5th date though..

Thanks

 

[Franco]

shock,

Then when she leaves it's basically on her terms, she is the one ending it. Should I stop before? Use better chase frames? Disqualify as BF more?

It could be a number of things depending on how your interactions go. Since you use conspicuous consumption, it could be that your boyfriend value might be higher than desirable (at least for getting laid anyway). Or, it could be that the girls don't always feel like the know you well enough (if you are not giving enough about yourself in the conversation to at least make her feel connected to you).

The other possibility is that you simply aren't persisting long enough in the bedroom. How long are you spending with a girl in the bed (or on the couch attempting to remove clothes) before you give up and let her go? Sometimes this process can take hours depending on the girl, so you simply have to be persistent, playful, and unfazed by any of her emotions that she throws at you during the process.

Of course, the thing to keep in mind is that there is no "surefire" way to make a girl sleep with you when she's at your place no matter what. It depends a lot on the girl, her experience, where she feels she's at in her life, and how she feels about you. If you really still want to sleep with these girls, then you can definitely invite them for a second date. There are two methods of doing this:

• 1) Invite her directly over to your place to cook dinner. This route is the cheaper and faster way to get to sex, but it also runs the risk of her "being prepared" for you to attempt to escalate again. She'll go over to your place keeping in mind that you will probably try to push for sex, which, if she thinks your boyfriend/provider value is too high, she may again resist your advances and try to get another date out of you.
  
  2) Invite her out for a romantic date (such as dinner for two or picnic at the park/beach), then DON'T invite her home with you (leaving her thinking your a very sexy and romantic man) while she stews in her thoughts wondering if you'll see her again. Then two to three days later, send her a text to set up a meet at your place for dinner (and do the same thing you would do in suggestion 1). This usually has a pretty high success rate with girls if you pull it off effectively, but you'll also have to invest more time and money into her (via 3 dates instead of 1 or 2) to get the lay.

I would experiment with both of these techniques if you're interested in taking women on more than one date and still sleeping with them. Generally, if you get up to three dates and don't sleep with the girl, I often advise that you stop contacting her until she contacts you at that point (when she realizes she's overstepping her boundaries by not giving you sex).

Anyway, these are my suggestions. Ultimately, it's up to you whether or not you want to sleep with girls even if it takes more than one date, but just keep in mind that everyone is susceptible to losing the occasional girl during last-minute resistance, even if they have seemed to have executed everything else flawlessly. =)

- Franco

 

[shockbroker]

Hey Franco,

With the last one it definitely it was definitely true that I didn't get to know her properly. She was a very hot 18yo girl, but I had to do the whole thing in French since she hardly spoke any English, and while my French is pretty decent, it's not nearly on the level of my English or Dutch to the point that I can just joke around, make word-plays, use lots of innudendo etc. It's just harder like that. Besides that, with all due respect, she wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer either so besides keeping my mouth, and hers, moving and using lots of 'I-wanna-fuck-you-in-the-mouth-eye-contact' there wasn't a whole lot there. Now, I've come across this situation before, but that girl was ready to go in about 5 minutes. This one was clearly trying to BF-zone me... Saying she was looking for a serious relationship yadayadayada. Then, of course I proceed to tell her that I wasn't, was too busy and was moving out of the country soon, but maybe she was so delusional as to still think she had a chance to become my GF... Or to put it more usefully, that I didn't disqualify myself just enough.

I did persist in the bedroom, up to the point that she just left , not in an angry way or anything but she just started saying she had to go home because she had school early in the morning. I didn' wanna go the daterape route on this one so I didn't see any other possibilities to persist.

Thanks for for those techniques. With this one I will just try 1 more time. I will invite her to come eat at my place. If she doesn't want to or if it doesn't lead to sex that time I'll cut her lose as I'm meeting other girls that are hotter/more my type very regularly.

Good one on the 'extra resistance' problem. I've had that one before and it sucks balls. Any tips on how I should play it to minimize the probability of this happening?

 

[Franco]

shockbroker,

Any tips on how I should play it to minimize the probability of this happening?

There's not really a lot of other things you can do here besides play down your boyfriend appeal. How much resistance you get is usually related to how much potential she sees in you as a long-term partner, although other factors can be involved. Just do your best to test out different methods and approaches for downplaying your potential as a provider, and eventually you should notice a decrease in the number of girls that give you resistance during sex. Of course, you can never completely just do away with it. That is a girl's main defense against making bad decisions with men, and if you think you can just completely disarm it every time with every girl then you're kidding yourself.

The other method(s), as I mentioned above, involve just seeing the girl more than once to make her feel like you've given her enough investment that her putting out for you won't land her in the pile of "one-night stand" girls that don't offer any value to you other than sex.

- Franco

 

[Witcher]

shock,



It could be a number of things depending on how your interactions go. Since you use conspicuous consumption, it could be that your boyfriend value might be higher than desirable (at least for getting laid anyway). Or, it could be that the girls don't always feel like the know you well enough (if you are not giving enough about yourself in the conversation to at least make her feel connected to you).

The other possibility is that you simply aren't persisting long enough in the bedroom. How long are you spending with a girl in the bed (or on the couch attempting to remove clothes) before you give up and let her go? Sometimes this process can take hours depending on the girl, so you simply have to be persistent, playful, and unfazed by any of her emotions that she throws at you during the process.

Of course, the thing to keep in mind is that there is no "surefire" way to make a girl sleep with you when she's at your place no matter what. It depends a lot on the girl, her experience, where she feels she's at in her life, and how she feels about you. If you really still want to sleep with these girls, then you can definitely invite them for a second date. There are two methods of doing this:

• 1) Invite her directly over to your place to cook dinner. This route is the cheaper and faster way to get to sex, but it also runs the risk of her "being prepared" for you to attempt to escalate again. She'll go over to your place keeping in mind that you will probably try to push for sex, which, if she thinks your boyfriend/provider value is too high, she may again resist your advances and try to get another date out of you.
  
  2) Invite her out for a romantic date (such as dinner for two or picnic at the park/beach), then DON'T invite her home with you (leaving her thinking your a very sexy and romantic man) while she stews in her thoughts wondering if you'll see her again. Then two to three days later, send her a text to set up a meet at your place for dinner (and do the same thing you would do in suggestion 1). This usually has a pretty high success rate with girls if you pull it off effectively, but you'll also have to invest more time and money into her (via 3 dates instead of 1 or 2) to get the lay.

I would experiment with both of these techniques if you're interested in taking women on more than one date and still sleeping with them. Generally, if you get up to three dates and don't sleep with the girl, I often advise that you stop contacting her until she contacts you at that point (when she realizes she's overstepping her boundaries by not giving you sex).

Anyway, these are my suggestions. Ultimately, it's up to you whether or not you want to sleep with girls even if it takes more than one date, but just keep in mind that everyone is susceptible to losing the occasional girl during last-minute resistance, even if they have seemed to have executed everything else flawlessly. =)

- Franco

Found this thread in my notes. I find the second approach very interesting since it advises a classic romantic date, which is usually not recommended in the community.

I would want to try it a few times and maybe implement it for the flexibility in may give. I would have two questions for @Franco @Chase or anyone experienced with Dates :

1 - What kind of 1st dates set up this kind of second date best?
2 - Any good tips or articles/Guides on how to properly run a romantic date? My main dates are usually casual as taught in most GC resources and I don't think going to mainstream resources even for this kind of dates would be helpful.

Thanks