Where it's at for this new guy

[ray_zorse]

hi everyone,

Just wanted to make contact since it's difficult to really talk about seduction issues in day to day life, confidence took a bit of a knock today although obviously I will get back in the saddle and continue practising, still it would be good to lay it out to those who understand and maybe clarify a bit to myself too where I stand. I also have a couple minor issues where suggestions would be welcome...

On fundamentals I am in pretty good shape, have been working hard to transform myself in areas of clothing, posture, voice, working out, gym, cologne, jewellery and so on, and it is really helping, getting some amazing reactions from people and so on, girls in particular really look at me with interest now, so I'm incredibly grateful to Chase & the team & do have to constantly remind myself how far I've come & also just how much more motivated & empowered I am compared with before I found this site (not just in seduction but in everything).

The not so good: I am really struggling with the conversation, I bought the conversation series and have been putting into practice, but I just need SO MUCH MORE practice to unlearn a lot of submissive behaviours mainly centred around giving too much information about myself, filling awkward gaps in the conversation with stuff that doesn't move the interaction forward, sometimes talking for too long about myself/entertaining/being the driver rather than getting solid investment & making the other work hard for everything. I suppose also another issue I have is it's hard for me to hear what others are saying, which often puts me on the back foot, I just have to deal w this as best I can & TRY to remember not to lean in & TRY to give off the bored body language but this is far from easy, I KNOW I can do it but it's baby steps now.

One thing I'm having trouble with specifically is baiting, they often seem to know there is more coming and just respond with a slightly raised eyebrow or an uh-huh or a hmm?, this is not the kind of investment I am looking for...is it my body language, is it because they know me & expect me to be a blabberer, is it because my baiting is not subtle enough, or is there a trick to dealing with this kind of thing?

Eye contact discipline very tricky too, unfortunately looking back I have always been one of those social novices scanning the environment and I can only seem to maintain the discipline for minutes at a time, usually a lot less, before my eyes just automatically focus on what they want to see, i.e. checking out girls, meeting eyes w passers by or others in the room, etc. A big issue is also when e.g. someone enters the room unexpectedly, my eyes start to move before the discipline kicks in, even if I am concentrating. DAMN so frustrating, I can only assume this improves with practice??

Anyway I am getting SOME of the practice I need because I've been talking to girls & asking them out so that's a big improvement on before, have tried social circle (not great results so have decided to cool it there until I have lifted my game a bit), and some cold approach by situational opener (better) and even a working girl. Today's date...we did hit it off when met in her workplace, and she agreed to a date & there were some moments of brilliance but also a few f-ups on my part, so did not proceed to a second date since I did not want to get out the hard push & decided to leave it. She did tell me in the course of the date that I had solid fundamentals but had apparently unwittingly given off a needy vibe at some point, I think this happened because I was unprepared for some of her questions, oops, need to lift my game a bit.

I'm a bit stuck on the direct approach (by the time I have decided on an appropriate compliment they are usually either gone or I have lost my nerve), and the pre opener (I have tried this twice, first time I f-ed it up, second time response was quite gratifying although I did not execute it perfectly & also did not have the guts to follow through w the direct opener)... anyway I feel if I could get these down I'd start to get a lot more practice & start to avoid my seductions coming unstuck at various points...your thoughts/experiences?

Logistically wise I live around the back of a major shopping centre so this could be a real plus if I could utilize it well, on the other hand it's not the best part of town & is 15km from city centre, I'm in city every day & see much hotter girls, better venues and more seduction opportunities, have not had the guts to really take advantage but also am wary of my bad logistics wrt the city. Hmm trying to tell myself to spend some days in the local shopping centre & see what happens, but have also taken steps to try to secure for myself a bachelor pad in city in the medium term. I suppose it's no substitute for having the guts to approach and just DO IT though...!! Hmm.

Now lastly I want to bring up a matter which is not well covered by Chase & team & which I think would deserve an article or several, and that's the fact that I have kids & though they do not live with me full time, I am regularly doing school dropoffs etc and playdates too (not to mention random encounters in parks, play centres & the like), and meeting LOTS of yummy mummies, I know at least one of them is bored & frustrated with her married life & I suspect there are many others, just not quite sure how to capitalize? I think by drawing elements of social circle & workplace seduction & some others I can put together a strategy but not sure I habe the skills to execute it without getting my head bashed in by an angry plumber, etc, or burning myself in that circle..am also mindful of what Chase said, that he doesn't deliberately go for women with boyfriends anymore, too much trouble I guess? Thing is given the limited time I can spend on usual day game vs the amount of time I HAVE to spend on yummy mummy game, it seems silly to cut down my options...?? Save it for a more advanced level? hmmm..very vexing/frustrating.

If you got to here then thanks for listening. I'd appreciate your thoughts or even just encouraging words...or if the advice is simply to revisit the site material or get some guts thats OK too. Good luck w all your seductions!!!

cheers, Ray

 

[Franco]

Ray,

There's a lot to address here, but you have some good questions and they all seem relatively fair based upon the fact that it seems like you're really going out there and trying to make it all come together. I appreciate that.

Let's get to some of this:

but I just need SO MUCH MORE practice to unlearn a lot of submissive behaviours mainly centred around giving too much information about myself, filling awkward gaps in the conversation with stuff that doesn't move the interaction forward, sometimes talking for too long about myself/entertaining/being the driver rather than getting solid investment & making the other work hard for everything.

Here's a quick suggestion for this while you're still learning: if an "awkward" gap comes up where neither of you are talking and it seems like neither of you will say something unless you do, I want you to immediately switch your mode. I want you to completely focus on making sexual eye contact with the girl in question and "smirk" in a way that says "you're sexy." If you need an example, I'd have to say that Ian Somerhalder is the reigning champion in this department:

I want you to hold that facial expression until the girl actually tends to feel some tension and ask a new question herself. Sometimes a girl might still find the situation awkward (but this usually has more to do with your fundamentals or a lack of attraction on her part), but sometimes they'll be so attracted to you at a primal level that they'll feel the pressure to keep the conversation going themselves. If this happens, you know you're probably in really good shape! It means she's trying to keep the conversation going because she finds you sexy.

Anyway, that's something very simple you can do that works in all situations, and after you get some confidence behind your ability, you'll probably even be able to throw in a witty or sexual comment along with the smirk.

I suppose also another issue I have is it's hard for me to hear what others are saying, which often puts me on the back foot, I just have to deal w this as best I can & TRY to remember not to lean in & TRY to give off the bored body language but this is far from easy, I KNOW I can do it but it's baby steps now.

This is an easy one to fix and one I learned quickly since I did most of my game in loud nightclubs. Instead of leaning in, make eye contact with her and then use your finger to motion her toward your ear (essentially communicating that you can't hear her, and then additionally asking for investment and getting compliance by her moving closer to your ear [and you!] so that you can hear her).

Eye contact discipline very tricky too, unfortunately looking back I have always been one of those social novices scanning the environment and I can only seem to maintain the discipline for minutes at a time, usually a lot less, before my eyes just automatically focus on what they want to see, i.e. checking out girls, meeting eyes w passers by or others in the room, etc. A big issue is also when e.g. someone enters the room unexpectedly, my eyes start to move before the discipline kicks in, even if I am concentrating. DAMN so frustrating, I can only assume this improves with practice??

Yep. Practice and experience make perfect, here. =)

I'm a bit stuck on the direct approach (by the time I have decided on an appropriate compliment they are usually either gone or I have lost my nerve), and the pre opener (I have tried this twice, first time I f-ed it up, second time response was quite gratifying although I did not execute it perfectly & also did not have the guts to follow through w the direct opener)... anyway I feel if I could get these down I'd start to get a lot more practice & start to avoid my seductions coming unstuck at various points...your thoughts/experiences?

Another "practice makes perfect" scenario!

Now lastly I want to bring up a matter which is not well covered by Chase & team & which I think would deserve an article or several, and that's the fact that I have kids & though they do not live with me full time, I am regularly doing school dropoffs etc and playdates too (not to mention random encounters in parks, play centres & the like), and meeting LOTS of yummy mummies, I know at least one of them is bored & frustrated with her married life & I suspect there are many others, just not quite sure how to capitalize? I think by drawing elements of social circle & workplace seduction & some others I can put together a strategy but not sure I habe the skills to execute it without getting my head bashed in by an angry plumber, etc, or burning myself in that circle..am also mindful of what Chase said, that he doesn't deliberately go for women with boyfriends anymore, too much trouble I guess? Thing is given the limited time I can spend on usual day game vs the amount of time I HAVE to spend on yummy mummy game, it seems silly to cut down my options...?? Save it for a more advanced level? hmmm..very vexing/frustrating.

Well, I think one angle that you can work here is to see how much physical compliance you can get from some of these women to test the waters. Compliment them directly and then see if they tend to get rather physical with you. Women who are in boring relationships tend to get very flirtatious because they miss the "highs" of meeting a sexy man with the possibility of going to bed with him. If they tend to give rather neutral responses to your direct compliments and avoid making physical contact with you, then it's probably best just to leave it alone. If one of them gets a big smile and suddenly becomes extremely flirty (and possibly even touching you), then just invite her out for a drink. If these women really want to have sex with another man (and possibly escape their current, non-fulfilling relationship), then they'll likely accept the offer and play the game of "if you don't ask about my husband, then I won't tell."

- Franco

 

[ray_zorse]

Thanks Franco for the detailed response, I will let you know how I get on with those techniques.

Also thinking about a bit more sexualized banter...which I feel is a weak point...I was thinking back to a conversation I had with one of my son's teachers who is showing classic signs of attraction...I was asking about her routine and said something like "what days do you work at the school, are you part time or ...?" and she replied that she works Mondays through Thursdays, I could then follow up with something like "oh right, and what days do you meet handsome men for risky daytime sex?" ....<blush blush> I would then do as you advised and hold the sexual smirk for a while until she says perhaps "oh that's not something I normally do" and I could follow up with "sounds like we need to spice things up a little then..." and maybe try for a Friday coffee date, what do you think? is it too full on? do I have to build up to this kind of explicit sexual reference? do I have to keep it more subtle? or just jump in, is this the kind of thing I'm aiming for all the time right from the word go?

cheers, Ray

 

[Franco]

Ray,

I could then follow up with something like "oh right, and what days do you meet handsome men for risky daytime sex?" ....<blush blush>

Eh... well, that's a bit too forward, especially if you haven't built up any sexual tension first. The idea with women isn't to directly talk about you two having sex, but instead make sexual innuendos that let her know you are a sexual man. Here's an example of a very subtle one:

Her: "Yeah, I love to run every morning. It makes me feel like I have much more energy during the day!"
Him: "Not only that, but I'm sure it gives you a lot more stamina and energy at night as well... am I right? "

Here's one that's much less subtle:

Her: "I hate having to take exams! They took so long, and usually they're too hard for me under the pressure!"
Him: "Well, I'm sure you don't hate ALL things that are long and hard! "

Of course, your vibe always needs to be playful and sexual when you make these comments. Try not to directly reference sex between you two if possible.

If sexual innuendos are not your thing, however, you can also tell stories about sexual encounters to that you get to the topic of sex and get her thinking about sex. This isn't something I do too often, but our author Alek Rolstad has a great article on it here: How to Tell Sex Stories: Part 1. There is also a Part 2 for more details.

In general, you just want to make things sexual without explicitly referencing sex between the both of you. You want to "hint" at it. =)

- Franco

 

[ray_zorse]

Righto, yep, feel a bit foolish but I guess it's like the advice on being an asshole -- risk of taking it too far at first Anyway got it. Well I started to put some sexual frames in my interactions but only a bit timidly at first, however each time I go over the conversation to work out how I could have done better and I think I am getting the hang.

Anyway... I DID AN APPROACH! Woooo!! Well, it resulted in a rejection but I DON'T CARE! I'M ON A HIGH And had a nice interaction with another student in the lift just afterwards anyway, so it must have improved my momentum

Will keep u posted. cheers, Ray