Why are some men so heavily riddled with inner game issues, overthinking, and doubt?

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

It seems like for some men, they hear of something regarding women and game and within months, they do it. Little doubt, maybe some inexperience, but they get up and running quickly with game and tough things in life, pondering less on things. Such men are not so riddled with self-doubt, the tendency to overthink a lot, mental masturbation, being a lot in their own heads, and becoming a nuisance to those trying to help them.

Other men? I in particular but also tons of other men I see, they are the kind of have a lot of self-doubts, overthink a lot, be hard to help when starting out at least, and be prone to the victim mentality. I know for me, it was a period of seeing the world as my enemy and being paranoid without any shadow of a doubt.

Why are some men like this though?

Could it be helicopter parenting? Could it be a rough childhood? Could it be certain trauma growing up? Could it be that they are from sheltered environments?

 

[trashKENNUT]

Could it be helicopter parenting? Could it be a rough childhood? Could it be certain trauma growing up? Could it be that they are from sheltered environments?

Take an example of my recent response to Chase on leaving women when they are old.

- Chase noted in layman that everyone is not an asshole for leaving their wifes. Different psychology at old age.

- Zac is pointing the pointers. And in theory, if you can leave your old wife, you likely would but you are human. You are emphasized by Islamic feminism and Christianity that you have to stick to your wife. Something like that.

There's 2 MAIN things. How I see it.

Chase is operating from macro/CEO.
Zac is operating from micro/COO.

Both are right. That's number 1.

Number 2:

- If you read about Chase, his family is generally "positive".

- If you read about me, I reveal undesirable things about Asian Culture and religion and I have not yet add family dynamics.

That's a lot of old states, sources of where you operate from, or where you take your sources from.

In layman's, Chase is positive. Zac is negative.

But it looks like Zac is operating from old states, when really, he can only access it from the present. Just that the old state is powerful and does influence you.

Then it goes back to what is "positive". To some, Chase writings is naive.

But he himself is not naive in real life.

Going off tangent but
It's a fundamental variable at it's core. Which we must agree first what the rules and criteria is before we can talk about it.

Otherwise, it will derailed badly.

 

[jonjames]

It’s low self image. That shit gets reenforced a motherfuckers whole life. I’ve always been confident. But I seen so many people, especially coming up, that thought they were worthless. I see it now too with some of these rich Jews I deal with for work. Hatin themselves. I see it often attached to a part of their identity they can’t change like race or height. Hard to break away from some shit like that.

 

[Train]

I think it's a defense mechanism to protect the ego. If people portray things as evil/negative, then they have an excuse to not take risk. They'd have to risk that they're not that smart. Or socially savvy. Or well-liked.

If they take themselves out of the game "rightfully so", how can they ever lose? That's the mentality. But they do lose because they want things that only the game provides. Whether it be girls, a career, friends, etc.

The key is to recognize these limiting beliefs while adopting new mindsets. And embrace the risks.

Easier said than done, of course.

 

[Starboy]

It seems like for some men, they hear of something regarding women and game and within months, they do it. Little doubt, maybe some inexperience, but they get up and running quickly with game and tough things in life, pondering less on things. Such men are not so riddled with self-doubt, the tendency to overthink a lot, mental masturbation, being a lot in their own heads, and becoming a nuisance to those trying to help them.

Other men? I in particular but also tons of other men I see, they are the kind of have a lot of self-doubts, overthink a lot, be hard to help when starting out at least, and be prone to the victim mentality. I know for me, it was a period of seeing the world as my enemy and being paranoid without any shadow of a doubt.

Why are some men like this though?

Could it be helicopter parenting? Could it be a rough childhood? Could it be certain trauma growing up? Could it be that they are from sheltered environments?

Well speaking from experience I had a very shitty and miserable adolescent life and a lot of my trauma carried over on an unconscious level to my life now. Back then kids picked on me verbally, physically, treated me like I was low value because of how I looked and I was weak. My parents didn't do shit to raise my self esteem they did the bare minimum as parents because they're cheap bastards. Wouldn't give me money if I wanted food, wouldn't buy new clothes,all they told me to do was to study and take education seriously and that life is not about fun. I literally wore the same 3 sweaters and pants a week and 1 pair of shoes a year. This is why I have an animosity for brown people and their culture growing up in it my whole life. Even these brown kids who I grew up with and went to mosque with even treated me like shit when they were supposed to be my "friends",but even they saw me as low value which is why they would disrespect me sometimes. On top of all that I had clinical depression which I had to do something very extreme in order to finally get meds for it. I was just basically so fucked up back then there was no hope for me to get girls until I left hs and started over. My state of mind improved drastically when I started college but I was so behind on socializing and my growth was stunted significantly and I didn't know or believe that girls wanted me or even if they did I didn't know how to court them until I had this site as a reference. So basically not everyone has a peachy life as a kid like these naturals do growing up. One of my friends is a natural who had it good in hs. His parents supported him,he got high grades in school,was popular,big dude so nobody could fuck with him and he fucked like 40 50 girls in hs. People always assume guys who struggle with women have something seriously wrong with them,but on the surface you couldn't tell. They can be some normal ass likeable dudes with friends,hobbies etc ,but theres always mental blocks underneath which is hard to overcome unless you are able to rewire your brain thru enough positive meaningful experiences. Me personally I still struggle to let some of that stuff go cuz I feel I was wronged and no justice was done. Hope this gave you an understanding.

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

@ZacAdam

I think that is it, the parenting aspect, it has to be a big big factor in everything since we are forced to spend a bit too much time with parents in the first 18 or so years of our lives. Now it is no mystery to me why through so much of my own life, I grew up so negative, because my parents were very negative, judgmental, and uncaring people. Same with the community I spent my youth with, it was largely an uncaring and judgmental community where your accomplishments and what was outwards was judged more than what you offered with personality. Not to get too racial but I do think Asian cultures as a whole lack empathy.

It is no mystery now that you can get some plain white kid from the midwest who immediately gets it. The reason is, he grew up in a very positive environment compared to some kid with strict immigrant parents. Now factor in that the midwestern kid's failure is likely due to naive attitudes and just lack of understanding while some kid who grew up in a more toxic environment has his failure due to mindset. Sometimes, I feel like the worst thing for a newbie is to know too much because then they start to argue and disregard great things about game and women.

Given the recent events being somewhat, well, heated on the forum @Bacchus I think that this is an exercise we can all work on. Don’t take this personally at all but I do think that certain people who want to help others can benefit a great deal in choosing their words carefully. Otherwise, the advice gets taken as an insult and no one really benefits. I’m not suggesting that this is intentional…or criticizing you

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

@Ben22

Buddy I completely relate! Outside of being poor, that was actually a good bit of my youth. At one point I did blame my failure exclusively on race which got to the point where @Chase and @Franco had to consider booting me from this forum for good. Now it was not until a very long time after and a ton of epiphanies later that I finally fixed myself. What I can say is that when you are that screwed up from life and have been through that much trauma, the change is slow, gradual, and remnants of it can remain even after you have had your luck.

Brown communities are also damned shallow, I think culturally Asian and Brown people (Arabs, Indians, and Pakistanis) tend to lack empathy and care for another human being that we take for granted all too often in white society. Even in my own upbringing, I was probably encountering the worst experiences with Arab and Indian kids who did somewhat fit in with the popular crowd.

It is not going to be an easy road for you but what you can do is:

1. Surround yourself with positive people

2. Distance as much as possible from parents and old friends

3. Ideally hang out less with brown people or hardly any

4. Constantly surround yourself with positive upbeat content

I can say that right now, you might be in danger of falling into that nasty incel mindset that clogs up incel forums where people swear looks are, avoid those places like the plague.

 

[trashKENNUT]

OP,

Which part is criticizing me?

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

OP,

Which part is criticizing me?

I am not criticizing anyone

 

[trashKENNUT]

OP,

Sometimes it looks like I am angry. And for others, what looks literal isn't literal.

And also mistranslation/local slang.

So yea, do note if I look aggressive. I only note if I troll someone badly online. This is to make an example to everyone around to be nice to everyone.

Don't need to kiss ass and what not. Just be pleasant.

 

[Starboy]

@Ben22

Buddy I completely relate! Outside of being poor, that was actually a good bit of my youth. At one point I did blame my failure exclusively on race which got to the point where @Chase and @Franco had to consider booting me from this forum for good. Now it was not until a very long time after and a ton of epiphanies later that I finally fixed myself. What I can say is that when you are that screwed up from life and have been through that much trauma, the change is slow, gradual, and remnants of it can remain even after you have had your luck.

Brown communities are also damned shallow, I think culturally Asian and Brown people (Arabs, Indians, and Pakistanis) tend to lack empathy and care for another human being that we take for granted all too often in white society. Even in my own upbringing, I was probably encountering the worst experiences with Arab and Indian kids who did somewhat fit in with the popular crowd.

It is not going to be an easy road for you but what you can do is:

1. Surround yourself with positive people

2. Distance as much as possible from parents and old friends

3. Ideally hang out less with brown people or hardly any

4. Constantly surround yourself with positive upbeat content

I can say that right now, you might be in danger of falling into that nasty incel mindset that clogs up incel forums where people swear looks are, avoid those places like the plague.

Oh no trust I will never have the incel mindset,mentality or behavior. If I was incel it would only be in that i'm not getting laid currently. I was just kinda expressing my frustrations because i'm too trapped with my thoughts all the time.But I know that my life can turn around and I can get girls and i'm not the loser that I was when I was younger. I'm just envious towards other guys who had a easier path in life and didn't have the struggles I did. I don't even have those brown friends I stopped talking to them cuz I find them annoying plus they suck with girls anyways so what good is their friendship to me. My parents are still idiots and I gotta deal with during quarantine so that's that.

 

[Indian Race Troll (IRT)]

Oh no trust I will never have the incel mindset,mentality or behavior. If I was incel it would only be in that i'm not getting laid currently. I was just kinda expressing my frustrations because i'm too trapped with my thoughts all the time.But I know that my life can turn around and I can get girls and i'm not the loser that I was when I was younger. I'm just envious towards other guys who had a easier path in life and didn't have the struggles I did. I don't even have those brown friends I stopped talking to them cuz I find them annoying plus they suck with girls anyways so what good is their friendship to me. My parents are still idiots and I gotta deal with during quarantine so that's that.

Let me give you advice about life and especially the working world as someone who has been in it for years. What you talk about is the Just World Fallacy, people on the outside pretend like life is fair because they want it to be, when in reality it isn't. Sure people might even say it isn't in a meeting and such but the truth is, when it all plays out, they don't really notice it. In this world, whether we are talking seduction, business, or life; people only care about what you can get them.

Recently, my company let a ton of people go but I know a good number of the people they let go were strong hardworking people, some of the ones kept were lazy slackers. Just so happened that lazy slackers get good territories and clients tailor for the services so numbers lean in their favor, they do minimal work and get high tier results. Even some who were moved from those good territories to shitty ones had their performance suffer and, well, they ended up saying it was due to "attitude issues".

You can be chatting with some guy who grew up in a country where game was easy as fuck and society sexually liberal, he'll tell you how easy it is despite not knowing your background. Well, the world doesn't care, it doesn't. In the end, results are what results are. You win by an inch, you win by a mile, you win.

In the end, no one really cares about how hard you had it or how unfair life was, they will tell you to cry them a river. People want results and outcomes, plain and simple.

 

[Tank]

I have a very low self esteem and suffer regularly from overthinking and so on.

There's a pretty good explanation for it. They did a study where they shocked a dog when he was in a particular spot and then they learned to avoid that spot. Then they shocked them anyway and they became sad and hopeless then they changed to shocking them only when they were in that spot again, but that didn't change anything the dog stayed in that spot and got shocked. The "learned helplessness" experiment. Basically if you face a significant amount of emotional pain, it becomes more and more difficult to pursue that thing that's behind all of it again, it becomes difficult to even believe that a life without that pain is possible .

 

[Rakkum]

Hey, @Tank !

The good news is you are not doomed to be stuck in that position.

It's good that you are aware of what you are dealing with. It must have taken a good deal of introspection and self-analysis.
Keeping your future in mind, your energy is now most likely best spent on figuring out and implementing a plan to fight and win, to change your reality into a better one.

You can start from here:

Anyway, pragmatic info and solutions for this thread can be found in discussions started by @Carousel such as here and here.

Or from here (policing your thoughts and conditioning your mind does work, I can vouch for that): How to overcome Depression.

Also, I would wholeheartedly recommend having a look at the stoics. For me, reading Epictetus and Aurelius really hammered in the following:

1. In each and every situation that comes along you have complete control over how you react to it (quite empowering, I'd say)
2. And that is pretty much the only thing you ever have complete control over. The reality or world or Universe or whatever it is will do it's own thing at any particular moment, you are along for the ride. But that is not a reason for fatalism. Far from it. Your actions here and now will ripple into the future and will play role how the reality unfolds in the next moment.

Hope this helps

- Rakkum

 

[Starboy]

I have a very low self esteem and suffer regularly from overthinking and so on.

There's a pretty good explanation for it. They did a study where they shocked a dog when he was in a particular spot and then they learned to avoid that spot. Then they shocked them anyway and they became sad and hopeless then they changed to shocking them only when they were in that spot again, but that didn't change anything the dog stayed in that spot and got shocked. The "learned helplessness" experiment. Basically if you face a significant amount of emotional pain, it becomes more and more difficult to pursue that thing that's behind all of it again, it becomes difficult to even believe that a life without that pain is possible .

Exactly how I feel sometimes. Especially if it happens early on and you're in an environment like school or home where you're forced to be around people who constantly reinforce that pain. But most people on the outside who never had to experience anything like this would just tell you stop whining and quit acting like a bitch.

 

[Carousel]

Traumatized individuals often suffer from a multitude of mental structures that make it very hard to help them.

- Focus on the past rather than the present/future: This results in endless complaints and whining about what HAS happened instead of how to progress towards a solution. Discussed here: https://www.girlschase.com/content/time-orientation-and-suitable-romantic-pairings

- Resistance to all sorts of intervention, either in the form of avoidance or rage: We have multiple cases here where such individuals are shooting down absolutely all advice, or not acting on the advice and just creating an identical thread later. How statistically likely is it that ALL advice from a ton of competent people is wrong and nothing addresses the issue even slightly? I tend to label somebody askhole and hence timewaster if more than 50% of non-KJ advice is disregarded.

- Victim mentality and hopelessness: This is to some extent understandable as solving PTSD is not as simple as "stop whining" and Western psychology often just consists of drugging people, or talking with a therapist who is a KJ on the topic in the form of not having solved any trauma him/herself. It is also a problem as I have discussed in the Stages of Approach Abilities post that many good PUAs never have dealt with severe anxiety and will usually never understand the nature of such problems. However I have spoken with a lot of traumatized people who flat out resist to even consider trying TRE etc. "I am sure it won't work, I just have to live with this". How can you know that something won't work if you didn't even bother to read an article about it?

- Naïvete: Jordan Peterson, who is a clinical therapist, has also talked about how naïvete and its extension, victim mentality, must be confronted in order to fight PTSD as the world IS full of predators and nasty things and as long as you see yourself as a victim you will be in hypervigilance because these threats aren't going anywhere. Notice how a lot of traumatized guys are complaining about being screwed over in childhood, school, college etc. To overcome this, the trauma must be removed by TRE or similar techs, then new reference experiences must be built at a level where the client is able to handle bullies etc. However this actually requires action which may be highly uncomfortable, hence, forum whining and askhole behavior instead.

- Intellectualization: Such people may talk forever about various intellectual aspects of their problem, instead of diving into the core of the issue or exposing themselves to the problem. This is a kind of avoidance which ensures that no improvement will occur, again because it is uncomfortable to address the actual issue. We had such a guy here in the circle around ASF Norway who participated in a mastermind group. He would always find a "new therapy" for his problem. However he also would never actually try to solve his problem within any of those frameworks. My friend told him more or less to fuck off when he realized what was going on, after a year of intellectualized chatter with no progress, wasting the time of others.

There are probably other causes of askhole behavior than PTSD, but it is one of them. IMO internet forums are not a suitable place to treat such cases and in fact I don't think many of these can be treated without the use of means that Western society won't approve.

 

[Rain]

I don't think many of these can be treated without the use of means that Western society won't approve.

What are some examples of what might work that Western society won't approve?