Body-oriented therapy and its application to PU

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Tribal Elder
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This post will deal with various therapies that go further than cognitive-behavioral therapy (CBT). You actually don't need to understand very much of the theory here to do the exercises, but I do provide a lot of theory as there are guys who are interested in a deeper understanding. I have studied this topic for the sake of seduction since 2012 and helped rehabilitate several people I know, including a couple of very traumatized ones with really fucked up upbringings. So the information density will be very high and the post is somewhat non-linear. There is also some information about how body-oriented therapies relate to CBT and meditation.

Basal architecture of the human brain

A huge problem of Western psychology as opposed to Eastern practices like Zen and Yoga is how logical and top-down it is. Maybe this can be traced back to the fact that some of the philosophical founders of Western thought were rather Asperger. For example, a claim such that the one of Descartes, "I think, therefore I am" could be read to imply that rational thought is primary, and that your overall mental state is determined by your logical thoughts, not the state of your body.

Modern neuroscience would scoff at such a claim. At the physiological level, the brain is organized with evolutionary older parts at the bottom and progressively younger additions on top of it. A scientifically obsolete, but still very pedagogical model is the so called "Triune brain model", https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triune_brain where the basal parts originating from the days of our reptilian ancestors is the denoted the "R-complex", the mammalian brain on top of it is denoted the "Limbic system" and the wrinkeled, outer "Neocortex" is the part we have in common with the higher primates. One can summarize the model as that the R-complex will control functions that basically keep you alive like digestion and emotions such as anger or fear that we have in common with the more basal vertebrates. The limbic system governs basal emotions that are common to mammals (basic social behavior, caring for infants etc) and the neocortex is involved in more abstract thought, language and the advanced social emotions of the higher primates. Yes, some of the Great Apes can communicate with sign language.

While the model is an oversimplification (you will for example lose your short-term memory or even lapse into a permanent coma if the certain limbic or R-complex structures are damaged), it is still a pedagogical model in the sense that if two different levels of the brain want to do different things, the more basal part will usually "win" as they are closer coupled to the body and more nerves are running up to the higher parts of the brain than down from them. Imagine trying to starve yourself to death or suffocate yourself by holding your breath. You can fight your urge to eat or breathe for some time, but usually the lower parts of the brain will simply "hijack" your upper parts in the end in some fashion and override such detrimental conscious wishes.

Coupled to the lower parts of the brain is the spinal cord and multiple nerves surrounding internal organs (the viscera) and musculature. These nerves will constantly monitor the state of the organs and the muscles, and if something abnormal happens, the brain will go in some kind of an alert state. For example, eating something poisonous will often cause the brain to induce nausea and passivity - this is so that toxins shall be vomited up instead of being absorbed and that you shall remain passive to enhance the chances of recovery.

How conflicts and threatening situations are handled by the nervous system

In a conflict situation there are four main ways of responding: 1) Negotiation, 2) Fight, 3) Flight and 4) Freeze, which is doing nothing and hoping for the best.

Interestingly, the human nervous system have employed all of these responses and they are executed in the opposite order of when they evolved. A scientist whose name is Stephen Porges has made large contributions to this theory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyvagal_theory

The oldest response is the "Freeze" response. The oldest vertebrates like amphibians and basal reptiles had in many cases likely no ability to generate their own body heat like mammals have. This means that they have very limited stamina as chemical reactions are slow at low temperatures. Thus, in many cases, the only defense they have is to pretend that they are dead. I once observed this when my cat had caught a toad. It just froze completely and was lying upside down, seemingly dead. I removed my cat from it as toads are poisonous. 5 minutes later the toad awoke and just jumped away like nothing had happened.

Freeze responses are also why you can literally scare mammals to death under some conditions. The entire body simply shuts down so that life-threatening conditions may arise from lack of oxygen etc. Freeze-like reactions should be common to anybody who have ended up in social situations they are unable to handle and where there is not even an escape. Note how physiologically unpleasant they are and how they may stick for quite some time.

The second oldest responses are the "fight or flight" responses. I am not sure it is known exactly when these arose, but they probably originate in mammal-like reptiles or basal mammals with faster metabolism. These had the stamina to fight opponents, or flee if the threat was too serious to put up a fight against.

The youngest response is the negotiation response, which is usually referred to as "social engagement" (SE). This consists of discussing, arguing without being angry or afraid, trying to bargain a solution etc. It has emerged in mammals with more complex social behavior than just fighting each other over disagreements and takes a nonverbal form in other animals than humans.

The very interesting thing to note here is that the processing of conflicts and threatening situations goes from younger to older responses. You evaluate an immediate threat. Can you negotiate? If yes, SE is triggered. If no, the next level evaluation is: Can you fight it? If yes, you go into fight. If no, you evaluate whether you can flee. And if that also fails, the freeze response is triggered: Do nothing and hope that you survive.

In general, the more capacities you have, the younger responses will be employed. Most AFCs are in a flight state or a freeze state if social threats arise. Higher intermediates in the social hierarchy (think the high school bully) tend to handle conflicts in a fight state. The social leaders tend to be nearly always in SE. Notice how elite level politicians and debaters will never freeze, retreat or get mad, but just keep argue their point in a calm and slick fashion.

This is also why you have a lot of angry guys on pickup forums. They have increased their social and sometimes physical capabilities and thus will tend to respond with fight instead of flight or freeze. The top level PUAs tend however to be very calm, they will always respond to provocations in SE.

What are psychological traumas and amygdala hijacks?

Psychological traumas are simply fight, flight or freeze reactions that have somehow gotten "stuck" in the body. For example, a threat causing the fight or flight response to fire will cause increased heart rate and mobilization of musculature, among other reactions such as shaking. Now the important thing, if this reaction does not complete, the reaction may get "stuck" in the body, causing the a permanent state of higher alert than normal. The reason why this can happen is that humans have a lot of neurological circuitry on top of the circuits most other mammals have and these may interfere with the basal reactions, as remarked above. Such a "stuck" response is associated with stiffness, which act as a suppressor of shaking. Note how generally stiff and facially non-expressive a lot of AFCs are. This is also true for the typical over-compensating bully, who is a lower-level dominant male. Charisma is the opposite of facial stiffness and is essentially an indicator of a healthy emotional baseline state, that is why it is so attractive. Facial stiffness is also a very red flag when meeting women, it signifies that she has major mental issues. The reason why this "stiffness" response is induced is likely a way to temporarily save face from excessive displays of emotion. Many cultures have rituals and practices to remove the stiffness now and then, something which is regretfully lost in modern Western culture.

A psychotherapist, David Berceli, observed these dynamics while being in some war-torn area where the culture was so that public expression of fear by adults was shunned. The children would get scared by acts of war, but they would shake of fear and would not get traumatized. However, the adults who attempted to keep a straight face ended up getting traumatized. He used this observation to derive a treatment called Trauma Releasing Exercises (TRE) which I will discuss below. It basically works by deliberately inducing the shakes so that old traumas stored in the body will release.

Traumatization may be due to either a few major traumas like from violence or accidents, or hundreds of micro-traumas from bullying, a bad upbringing, high levels of stress etc. The first is called Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) and the latter is called cPTSD (complex PTSD). To decondition cPTSD may in general take months as there are limits on how much of the traumatization you can remove in one session.

PTSD may be regarded as a generalized hypervigilance. Just as the intelligence services are significantly more on guard right after a terror attack in an area, the human mind is in a hypervigilant state after a traumatic event. PTSD tends to be induced in situations where the freeze response was triggered, that means, there was no escape. Prolonged bullying in families, school and workplaces tend to induce PTSD as this is literally in many cases hard to escape for the victim. Subordinates in social hierarchies have been shown to have higher level of bodily tension and elevated stress hormones.

The brain has two pathways for threat processing to improve reaction time. One is a conscious evaluation, utilizing the neocortex, where you essentially make up your mind about, say, is this animal dangerous or not, and then consciously choose how to act. But there is also faster pathway where information from the sensory organs is routed directly into the limbic structure called the amygdala. Now, if you have a traumatic memory similar to the sensory stimulus, say you were once bitten by a dog and got traumatized and, later, a dog is barking at you, this sensory impression may MATCH by the information previously stored in the amygdala and a so-called "amygdala hijack" is effectuated. This is an immediate, reflexive response causing a freeze or a fight or flight response.


An example of such a hijack can seen in the movie "Born on the 4th of July". A US marine has returned in a wheelchair from Vietnam after accidentally having shot a child in combat. He is supposed to hold a speech when a child in the audience cries, and then he just gets a flashback to the war event and freezes up.

Another example of hijacks are highly indoctrinated people who get exposed to material that is offensive to their world view. This often will cause the person to go into a reflexive rage where any subsequent logical arguments are not even processed.

TRE will remove such hijacks. The stimulus goes from being perceived as instinctively threatening into neutral. Any memory related to the trauma will go from emotionally charged into neutral "it just happened". Flashbacks will disappear. The mental map will only update after the emotional reaction has completed (cred: Illuminatus).

How does traumas relate to approach anxiety?

Approach anxiety (AA) seems in my experience to be more or less synonymous with social anxiety. Hesitation to make approaches is not a single-cause phenomenon and it is possible to approach even when anxious. The absence of approach anxiety cannot therefore be defined simply as being able to approach, but rather absence of fear when approaching. TRE is extremely efficient to remove the actual fear of doing approaches and social anxiety in general.

There are other causes of hesitation to approach that TRE will not change, but these cannot be said to be anxiety-driven. Sometimes, making a smooth approach may be difficult due to club layout or dynamics, or you may be hesitating due to language barriers, or simply be in a very shitty mood. These are separate problems from anxiety. Likewise, being an introvert has nothing to do with anxiety, introverts are simply less interested in socializing with randoms.

There is a lot of confusion on this issue as non-traumatized guys are 100% unable to grasp the nature of guys with a visceral anxiety of approaching. Note also that pushing somebody with anxiety on the visceral level to approach is a totally horrible thing to do. You will essentially ping the trauma without providing a release valve due to the perceived non-safety of the situation and the person may become worse. The correct action here is to use TRE to remove a fair share of the anxiety and then, when going out later, get the person into good mood and somewhat sociable state in general. Berceli states in the video linked below that people in SE will socialize naturally, I can confirm that this is the case and I therefore oppose any claim that AA is somehow inevitable or hard-wired.

When the traumas are gone, training regimes such as mass approaching is appropriate. Attempting to mass-approach or go out every day before trauma levels are significantly down may cause worsening of the conditions or even burnout, this is something I have seen happen.


What sort of therapies are available?

Here comes a brief explanation of the various therapies and how they integrate with each other.

TRE

This technique is hard to explain in words, but easy from a video. Here is one good one:


and here is a bit of theory for the specially interested reader


Berceli also has a website with a store https://traumaprevention.com/

Note that if you are severely traumatized, the first TRE sessions should be done with a certified TRE instructor. There has been cases of people going temporarily half-crazy from getting up too much of stored traumas at once. Also, prepare to feel rather shitty in terms of paranoia or nausea after heavy releases. This is simply symptoms of neural overload.

The training courses in TRE require you to do several tens of sessions in order to graduate to an instructor level. This is probably also what the average guy with such problems should do, maybe one session of 10-20 minutes every 7-10 days for several months. Shakes usually start in your legs or stomach area and will spread to upper body and finally the face. If you over time do not manage to activate the entire body including the face, there is still some stiffness to release and it may be a good idea to see an instructor.

Notice that you may get ill-tempered for a while by doing TRE. You are essentially removing conditioning suppressing anger and dealing with emotions from lifetime of threats and conflicts. The good thing is that once such states are evoked, you will get them up a last time, the emotional reaction will complete and the trauma is gone. You may also become rude. As long as you just keep doing the exercise, you will by time learn to moderate yourself again, now by your own compass, not society's.

TRE will also tend to induce severe nightmares after major releases. Nightmares are essentially the brain trying to make sense of the baseline threat state and this will go on indefinitely until the problem is "solved" by the completion of the reaction. Individuals with PTSD may be permanently plagued by nightmares and sleep terrors. After years of TRE I actually almost never have a nightmare. Even dreams about seemingly scary topics have no fear state associate with them.

Code of the Natural and stretching exercises

Code of the Natural (COTN)
is a system developed by Rob Brinded, a sports trainer. It consists of a multitude of vidoes and a book. These exercises are great for getting a more dominant and attractive posture, and will also improve your psychological state.

While there are newer products that are being sold by Brinded, the old COTN seems now to be free:


I got a lot out of the squat, the hamstrings and the tennis ball exercises, but many of these are relevant. The squat is important to avoid forward head posture, which may come from sitting too much in front of computers etc. This is important to remedy as it looks really nerdy.

People who sit too much should also stretch the hip flexors to not get a forward-tilted pelvis, this does not look good at all. Some of the COTN exercises will likely address it. In my experience this has to be done almost every day. You can also just stretch such as in this video:

Note that Rob Brinded has a dominant body language and good posture, while David Berceli is merely a very relaxed guy. This should illustrate the difference between COTN and TRE. COTN certainly has a bit of an inner game and relaxation effect, though. I always do some COTN and the hip-stretch before hitting the field in order to loosen up.

Breathing terapies

Several breathing exercises are useful for down-regulating anxiety. They work because the breathing rate is linked to the heart rate, which is again linked to the fight or flight response. One very simple technique is to inhale rather quickly, hold your breath for some seconds and then exhale slowly. I have heard that techniques such as Pranayama Yoga and Qigong are highly effective, however I only have minor experience with the first of them.

TRE releases in the diaphragm are crucial for getting your breathing further down in the stomach region, causing a deeper and more dominant voice. Note how squeaky the voice of anxious or nerdy guys tend to be. Such TRE releases follow a movement pattern reminiscent of crying, coughing or even puking (but without actually puking). My TRE trainer stated that voice-work without such removal of stiffness in the diaphragm tended to not be successful in the longer run as the stiffness causing the problem is not addressed.

Meditation

Meditation practices have been shown to improve well-being and mood control. They work by growing more nerves from the neocortex to older structures, in particular the amygdala. Thus, fear and bad mood will come under more cognitive control.

Many of these practices will work. A very simple one is the 3-3-3 meditation:
  • For three minutes, sit with closed eyes and feel the sensations of your breathing in your belly.
  • Then, for three minutes, move your attention around in your body every fifth second, to new places all the time.
  • Then, for three minutes, focus on the sensations in the area of contact between your body whatever you sit on.
Have a timer or recording of some sort beeping every third minute to keep track of this.

More advanced tapes can be obtained. I would in particular recommend Yoga Nidra Meditation by the old-school guru Hypnotica. When you listen to this, you will find that his nick is well-deserved! He also has a product The Sphinx of Imagination which I also recommend hearing at least once.

You should be a bit careful with meditating before you have cleaned out major traumas with TRE, as you may trigger a violent release. These techniques will by experience grow together, that is, when you quiet your conscious mind with meditation, TRE shakes will start to appear. In fact, the body will tend to shake almost spontaneously after many sessions of TRE, only by entering the TRE-position in the video above.

CBT

has been discussed here:


Note that CBT will NOT directly address traumas and hence AA (other than stupid pure cognitive beliefs like "women dislike being approached") in many cases and I believe that it may only somewhat work because the therapist may trigger the trauma and cause it to release due to a safe, comforting atmosphere. For example, the client finally gets mad or cries about being wronged and the emotional reaction completes, releasing the trauma. It has actually been found that the source of therapy is less important than the relation between the therapist and client, underpinning the claim that the most important is simply to get the client comfortable and in SE so that traumas may release naturally.

CBT is however highly effective for fixing high-level mindfucks or errors in the pure cognitive processing of reality by the higher brain parts. More basal and diffuse emotions like fight, flight or freeze states should be handled by the bodily techniques. Note the much higher resolution of the former than the latter, reflecting the much higher cognitive capacities of current humans vs primitive vertebrates.

Some other exercises that should be done to get the physiological baseline state right

Make sure your diet includes enough of vitamin B, C and D. These catalyze amino acids into neurotransmitters, that is the signal molecules of the brain. If these are lacking, severe depression may result. Especially vitamin D may be lacking in Western diet and people living in areas with little sun in the winter. This is especially serious for dark-skinned individuals living at high latitudes as vitamin D is generated by sunlight absorbed in the skin.

I do not recommend being a vegetarian as several important amino acids generating neurotransmitters and hormones are present in meat. In Japan they even call the guys getting laid for "Carnivore" men and the incels for "Herbivore" men. If you insist upon a vegan diet, ask a doctor about how to supply the required amino acids and vitamins.

I highly recommend lifting weights or doing full-contact combat sports 2-3 times a week to ensure testosterone levels. Also being a weight lifter and/or engaging in any kind of full-contact martial arts will induce a dominance and fearlessness that cause a lot of AMOGs to mind their own business. Fucked up hormonal balance is a big reason why many guys have erection problems nowadays. Physical exercise also elevates human growth hormone which causes slower aging.

Final words

I hope you enjoyed this post. Questions and comments are of course welcome! I finally wish to give my friend COCPORN credits for setting me on this track in the first place by introducing me to COTN and TRE back around 2012, and for various other people in the PUA circles who have participated in the theorizing or as guinea pigs.
 
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Dr Feelgood

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Wow. Just read this + your articles on nicr guys and CBT.

This verbalizes a lot what i already intuitively - kind of - knew.

Very valuable. Thanks!
 

Teevster

Tribal Elder
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This is...sick... this is basically all your hard work on the subject these last years put into one big piece that is to become a classic!

This gentlemen is what an up-coming classic posts looks like.

Oh yeah and this is probably the only real inner game advice I would follow. Most of my "inner game" stuff is from you...

Alek
 

Dr Feelgood

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What do you think about ayahuasca in order to heal trauma
 

Carousel

Tribal Elder
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What do you think about ayahuasca in order to heal trauma

It works. Ayahuasca and similar substances will introduce TRE shakes. Some psychedelics were developed with this in mind - get the client into SE so that you can do therapy, or induce TRE shakes.

I have personally not tried such substances, I know people who have with this in purpose. I can't recommend it due to legal and health risks. Also it would be KJ of me to have any further opinions on it.
 

COCPORN

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My first post (on this forum):

At this point, I have quite extensive experience with psychedelics (Ayahuasca, mushroom, and LSD). I am not sure it is something that is sensible to have a blanket discussion about, because people have extremely dissimilar effects from these substances. While I feel that I have personally benefited in a way that is hard to describe, it is difficult to recommend it to people. It might seem like spiritual "mumbo jumbo", but I fully believe there is such a thing as a calling, and when you hear it you will motivate yourself to be open to it. You do not have to search for it, it will find you.

The big "issue" I have with these compounds is that it is very easy to take too little of it and therefore discard it as not useful.

Short summary (from me): Ayahuasca is great at fixing the body. The mushroom is fantastic at fixing the body. Both will challenge you in ways you have no way to respond to and you will rise because of having experienced it.

But it depends on how you take it. Let's not discuss safety (because you all know how to keep safe) or legality (it will vary where you are).

A lot of people do these things and report they "feel nothing" or "gained nothing". If you take enough and go in with the mindset that you are here to learn and you are willing to pay the price, you will have an experience that is extremely valuable to you.

It will cost you.

When you gain something of value, you have paid a price. Perhaps you left behind a bad habit. Perhaps you came face-to-face with how much of an asshole you are when you're drunk. Maybe you realize the project you've been working on for two years isn't what you want to do. It is so hard to let go. It is so incredibly hard to let go, but when you do you will stand tall.

If you struggle against it you will win over yourself.

I would not mind having a discussion about this, but I am not sure if it is a fit for the forum and its guidelines. Also, I tend to lean very spiritually when I discuss this. On the flip side, there seems to be an almost global awakening to these things. So if people are wanting/willing to discuss it, I am more than happy to. Even if it is something people just consider "part of their tool belt".
 

Pitcher

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This post is a home run! Guys have to work on their inner game with practices like these while going out/being social to improve their outer game. Otherwise people spin their wheels in the mud usually.

I can vouch for mindfulness meditation, yoga, qigong, tai chi, and other somatic movement practices. This stuff works, especially when you remove unnecessary woo woo aspects and get down to the fundamentals. Breathing more deeply, moving more smoothly, finding better posture, releasing facial tension, and developing more/stronger connections between the various parts of your brain and your body.

I’m keen to try out TRE a bit.

Thank you for sharing all of this @Carousel.
 

Space

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Carousel, awesome. I could add many things to this, but now I just wanted to add this: as I understand you are more into Western practices that sure have their Eastern origins. Such as yoga and meditation. How about them?

And also how about dance as a stress relief exercise? Now I want to concentrate on dance.
 

Carousel

Tribal Elder
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Carousel, awesome. I could add many things to this, but now I just wanted to add this: as I understand you are more into Western practices that sure have their Eastern origins. Such as yoga and meditation. How about them?

Thanks! I do discuss meditation in this post and I have done a fair share of it.

And also how about dance as a stress relief exercise? Now I want to concentrate on dance.

I don't know much about that!
 

Space

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Thanks! I do discuss meditation in this post and I have done a fair share of it.
Sorry I read and answered to your post at different times and was a little disorganized about it. But sure I was more interested in the Eastern background of the specific Western techniques you described and you wrote about Eastern meditation as a separate topic to the Western practices as I understood.

About meditation itself, unrelated to your post. Many people like this short explanation. It's interesting how Westerners see meditation as a techniqe: now I sit down and meditate for 15 minutes and that's it. Vs. the Eastern approach as it is more like a state. This is unrelated to your description of meditation as I haven't studied that schools of it specifically. Just an observation in general.

And also how about dance as a stress relief exercise? Now I want to concentrate on dance.
I don't know much about that!
It's fine. But that's supposed to be my next step.
 
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Carousel

Tribal Elder
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Got a "field report" about TRE, meditation and AA in my inbox now - the author has allowed me to publish it. Here we go:



I've been doing TRE for about a month now and wanted to share my experiences with you. Thought it would be useful for your records.

I've been a generally anxious person for about 5 years. My OCD went into overdrive with some compulsions I took too far. The anxiety bled into my social interactions in the form of nervous tics/spasms. I jump in my seat over sudden sounds. I get spooked easier than others.

I tried meditating. I've done it for a year now. First 3 months, I did daily 30-minute meditations. The following months, I did 1-hour meditations.

My meditation method was to observe my thoughts/emotions. Letting my mind do its thing as I watch. It helped me be more present in the world. I also see it as time to recover. To let my mind wind down for a bit.

But the meditation didn't really help my anxiety. It was more or less the same.

I tried "accepting" the anxiety, but it was just me still fighting it. It wasn't until I read your posts that I began to differentiate between higher consciousness (which meditation addresses) and my body. That there may be trauma I can't access or resolve at that higher level. So I tried TRE.

The first time I tried TRE, I was able to get my whole body to shake. The tremors were very violent. At the end of each repetition, I would be semi-conscious. In other words, I would be awake but my body would be unresponsive. Then I would take a big breath. I ended up hyperventilating and sobbing. But then I felt very light and happy.

The next day, I did some more TRE. I got the same happy feeling after shaking. But then my body would shake without intentionally invoking it. I felt very very peaceful afterwards. I couldn't move my body for a little while after. Had to force it to move.

When I meditated after a third day of TRE, painful memories that caused fear/anxiety induced tremors. First in the hands. Eventually tremors went straight to face and semi-knocked me out again. Cried a bit. I felt tired, sore. Felt peaceful tiredness.

Since then, I've been doing a daily tempo of TRE. 2-5 minutes per day. The tremors would get less and less violent over time. Sessions take less and less time as well. I always get my face shaking though. Now my hips barely shake.

After TRE, I feel more myself outside in the world. More relaxed, less on-guard. I noticed that I don't have as much innate anxiety when interacting with others. I built that anxiety for over 5 years. So I'm managing my expectations on when it's finally undone.

The overlap with quarantine may be helping as there are less physical social interactions as well.

TRE helped with AA as well. I did some daytime approaches for the first time after 4 daily sessions of TRE. Asked 3 girls for the time. I was excited afterwards. Then quarantine happened. Lol.

My previous pre-TRE attempt at daytime approaches ended up with my body "fleeing" with my mind really wanting to approach. Though I was going for more intimidating approaches than just asking for the time.

Now, the prospect of approaching a girl doesn't seem that scary. Seems a little silly to think of it as scary, haha.

I've put approaching on pause until quarantine ends. I'm curious to see what it'll be like then.

I plan to keep doing TRE daily and seeing how else I can enable it to dissipate the anxiety I carry in my body.

Thanks again for that post on TRE! It's what I've spent years searching for. A way to better manage anxiety.
 

Witcher

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@Carousel

I started dabbling in TRE for a few months when I understood that bad past experiences may also have a big influence on our present and future well being, even if we don't want to admit it. I also saw some advantages in Body Oriented therapy because they don't directly involve our ego and memory compared to other methods so less bias from our parts here.

The problem is that I don't have any certified coach or Institut in my country. So I wanted to know if I can learn it alone to at least a reasonable level and get some benefits.

For now, I think I have been able to activate some Thremoring I guess. But I would love to check If I am at least a little bit correct in my practice.

The first one was done opportunistically. Any day when I used my legs a lot, like walking a lot, legs days, at gym or after martial arts class. Since as I understood the basic principle Is to induce the fatigue in the legs. So when I am back home I do the last part of the TRE Exercises, starting from the butterfly position(See next point)

The second one was by following this video below :

The problem is is that with just these exercises alone, no fatigue is triggered in my legs since I train regularly and I need way more than that. Now, I plan to do it once per week after Gym legs days.

Last interrogation. How do we know that our TRE practice is fruitful and that we are getting benefits from it in our life?

Thanks
 

Carousel

Tribal Elder
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The problem is that I don't have any certified coach or Institut in my country. So I wanted to know if I can learn it alone to at least a reasonable level and get some benefits.

Berceli has a website with a lot of instructional materials https://traumaprevention.com/. I also spoke with another user here who had ordered video coaching from some provider - try to google that if you are stuck.

The problem is is that with just these exercises alone, no fatigue is triggered in my legs since I train regularly and I need way more than that. Now, I plan to do it once per week after Gym legs days.

There is a very simple thing you can do here. Stand with your back towards a wall and your knees with a 90 degree bend until you get fatigue - this is only a question of time.

Last interrogation. How do we know that our TRE practice is fruitful and that we are getting benefits from it in our life?

Maybe about 80% of those who try this report less stress and anxiety in general - you will usually sense the difference quite fast.
 

Dr Feelgood

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Got a "field report" about TRE, meditation and AA in my inbox now - the author has allowed me to publish it. Here we go:



I've been doing TRE for about a month now and wanted to share my experiences with you. Thought it would be useful for your records.

I've been a generally anxious person for about 5 years. My OCD went into overdrive with some compulsions I took too far. The anxiety bled into my social interactions in the form of nervous tics/spasms. I jump in my seat over sudden sounds. I get spooked easier than others.

I tried meditating. I've done it for a year now. First 3 months, I did daily 30-minute meditations. The following months, I did 1-hour meditations.

My meditation method was to observe my thoughts/emotions. Letting my mind do its thing as I watch. It helped me be more present in the world. I also see it as time to recover. To let my mind wind down for a bit.

But the meditation didn't really help my anxiety. It was more or less the same.

I tried "accepting" the anxiety, but it was just me still fighting it. It wasn't until I read your posts that I began to differentiate between higher consciousness (which meditation addresses) and my body. That there may be trauma I can't access or resolve at that higher level. So I tried TRE.

The first time I tried TRE, I was able to get my whole body to shake. The tremors were very violent. At the end of each repetition, I would be semi-conscious. In other words, I would be awake but my body would be unresponsive. Then I would take a big breath. I ended up hyperventilating and sobbing. But then I felt very light and happy.

The next day, I did some more TRE. I got the same happy feeling after shaking. But then my body would shake without intentionally invoking it. I felt very very peaceful afterwards. I couldn't move my body for a little while after. Had to force it to move.

When I meditated after a third day of TRE, painful memories that caused fear/anxiety induced tremors. First in the hands. Eventually tremors went straight to face and semi-knocked me out again. Cried a bit. I felt tired, sore. Felt peaceful tiredness.

Since then, I've been doing a daily tempo of TRE. 2-5 minutes per day. The tremors would get less and less violent over time. Sessions take less and less time as well. I always get my face shaking though. Now my hips barely shake.

After TRE, I feel more myself outside in the world. More relaxed, less on-guard. I noticed that I don't have as much innate anxiety when interacting with others. I built that anxiety for over 5 years. So I'm managing my expectations on when it's finally undone.

The overlap with quarantine may be helping as there are less physical social interactions as well.

TRE helped with AA as well. I did some daytime approaches for the first time after 4 daily sessions of TRE. Asked 3 girls for the time. I was excited afterwards. Then quarantine happened. Lol.

My previous pre-TRE attempt at daytime approaches ended up with my body "fleeing" with my mind really wanting to approach. Though I was going for more intimidating approaches than just asking for the time.

Now, the prospect of approaching a girl doesn't seem that scary. Seems a little silly to think of it as scary, haha.

I've put approaching on pause until quarantine ends. I'm curious to see what it'll be like then.

I plan to keep doing TRE daily and seeing how else I can enable it to dissipate the anxiety I carry in my body.

Thanks again for that post on TRE! It's what I've spent years searching for. A way to better manage anxiety.


do you know which sequence the guy used?
I personally get only small tremors in my legs when I am lying down on the floor on my back and seperate the knees and legs while having my feet together.
I let the tremors be there for 10minutes or so, but I don't feel any difference afterwards.

I
 

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Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
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do you know which sequence the guy used?
I personally get only small tremors in my legs when I am lying down on the floor on my back and seperate the knees and legs while having my feet together.
I let the tremors be there for 10minutes or so, but I don't feel any difference afterwards.

I don't know what he did to prepare himself. Suggest you to seek an instructor because you are not getting full effect.
 

Witcher

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
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@Carousel

Which is better? To do TRE as a sprint, like every day for 2-3 weeks and kick traumas all at once or as a regular practice 1/2 times per week during the whole year?
 

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Tribal Elder
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Nov 11, 2019
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There was recently written an article by @Chase which touched onto therapeutic efficiency. This subject is deeply intertwined with PU as PU is just cognitive-behavioral therapy (CBT) with "inner game" being the cognitive and "outer game" being the behavioral element. Thus the criteria for who can get better from CBT to work are qualitatively similar to who can learn PU.

Criteria for CBT to work:
  • There must not be large amounts of tension in the body as this will keep the amygdala in a hypervigilant state.
  • There must not be any gross biochemical imbalances (certain amino acids, vit B/C/D, probably many other ones), this will result in depressive symptoms due neurotransmitter shortages and other pathologies).
  • The condition must actually be due to a cognitive trait that can be rewired. For example an Asperger can't be fully rewired by CBT as far as we know. They simply are wired to process information differently.
  • The client must not be highly resistant in terms of having narcissistic traits etc.
  • The stress by therapy or exposure can be regulated by the client down to acceptable levels.
Psychologists have worked on a subject called "Common factors theory". This framework claims that much of therapeutic efficiency is not method specific, but that a there underlying common factors which will determine the effectiveness of any kind of therapy.

I personally think this holds much truth. For example, factors such as the relationship between the therapist and the client (this gets the client over in social engagement, where therapy can be done), or how confident the therapist is in his method (authority compliance trigger) are probably more important than exactly what therapy is used.
 
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