Socializing Why do seducers get picked on with amog, fights, disrespect....

[Skills]

So you are wondering why do people are picking on me with fights, sometimes rude comments, some times bad looks, some type people nitpicking on you.... Well is very simple (some times is strangers or even people in your circles women and men alike)....

It is an inner frustration with the lack of their own success with social dynamics, women, mating and to avoid your threat to their identity in some cases relationship, you can do many things that they can not do such as being very stylish, being charismatic, being seductive, having no social anxiety this creates jealousy among males and some of them go into mate guarding and territolialism.....

This gets amplified because we do things different, such as the way we dress, the way we look, our accessories, the way we walk, dance, talk, groom. we are totally different from the NORM, our behavior is not normal we are OUTLIERS....

^ we are also free in many different ways when it comes to women, social norms etc... This makes some people, male and female, alike very uncomfortable... This is to be expected and you need to be able to handle this Social pressure, and do the aria stark sword dance with grace(this is difficult)...

^ I get a chuckle when i read journals, stories and newer guys going through this (important to get this field experiences and learning to deal with the social pressures, annoyances, awkward situations)... As your experience, social pressure grows you will be able to handle things better and better.... (a fight or guys picking on you will be rarer and rarer)......

Women will also do this cause they are uncomfortable cause you do not conform (specially in social circles they will also try to tool you, cause we are a threat to being a normal, boyfriend, husband, moving in etc...) So you are a threat to their natural feminine goals...

This is one of the best examples of what i am talking about:

 

[ulrich]

I disagree a little with you, @Skills.
I think those are mainly knee-jerk reactions that come from perceiving someone as off-group.

Someone that looks off-group seems dangerous to the unconscius mind because he has no loyalty to your group, especially if he shows disregard for your rules/customs.
So basicallly anyone that looks different enough triggers a primal disgust response.
Then a second disgust/danger response when he disregards your group rules and values.
This is enough to send some people into anger displays.

This happens not only to seducers, this can happen to anyone who looks different enough.
Try wearing a Cowboys jersey in downtown Phliadelphia, for example.
Or wear a dress as a man... eventually someone will punch your face.

I am reluctant to think that other people are jealous of seducers because we are so much better and they know it. It has always seemed egotistic to me.
I'm pretty sure what we see is a form of unconscius fear/hate. In their heads we are simply dicks... because we are indeed dangerous.

With experience, a seducer learns to manage his own image so he can avoid these knee-jerk reactions.
He learns when to break rules and when to conform.
Calibration it is.

 

[trashKENNUT]

I guess this gets accelerated as you get your fundamentals tight, you improving your life and so on. Funny that I talked something about this in 2012-2013.

but people are not sure about the topic. It's like breads are not healthy as we thought. We only recently caught on the topic.

Am I ahead of everyone or am I in my own ass or did I miss topics on an old forums that I wasn't familiar? Or I'm in a parallel universe.

Anyway, I don't care. I am happy, glad that the topic is finally written.
z@c+

 

[DarkKnight]

I disagree a little with you, @Skills.
I think those are mainly knee-jerk reactions that come from perceiving someone as off-group.

I disagree with this dude. The examples of men in a dress are a bit over the top and irrelevant for @Skills.
Skills is right this has to do with being a threat. I wrote about this in the competitive thread.. basically I was fine with a certain clique until they noticed I outshined them which made them very very upset. Until then everything was fine (except for 2 would be amogs, who I crushed). Ironically I befriended one of the amogs he is actually a cool guy and I caught myself laughing at his jokes involuntarily

Point is people who I was cool with suddenly closed ranks and tried to make me fade.. while everything was superficially well.

I have countered with a flurry of social circle and cold approach maneuvres (girls outside their circle to make them jealous and take away their power. Useless to close ranks when I am more abundand in resources) in order to flip the script and make them submit. This has gone well for me. Now this is me being me.. imagine a guy on the level with game like @Skills.

Hell I started out this life as a fighter , I recall intimidating lover types as a kid to make them fade. I have been guilty of what he is writing about.

These days I act like a lover, but when called for suddenly flash my fighter side, only to turn lover again after my point has come through.. then I am all sunshine again lol

 

[Chase]

There's definitely a threat-reduction aspect to some tooling of uppity out-group members, as @Skills says.

There's also a "tool the weird guy" thing some people will do, as @uriel observes, both to signal dominance to their own in-groups and to signal their own adherence to in-group values. "Look, I'm tooling this guy who isn't like us! That's because I'm so much a part of this group that I don't like people who aren't from it!"

You don't have to be actively doing anything to be made a target. When I was an inexperienced seducer I went out one night to a new nightclub in a blazer and a button-down shirt unbuttoned pretty far, showing off my chest. Well, it was a much rougher crowd in that club than I was expecting. I ended up posting up at the bar, just chilling for a bit, and some tattooed muscle guy with his buddy came up to pick a fight with me. Tried to muscle me out of my place at the bar then grabbed me by the lapels and palm-fisted me in the face when I declined his offer to make way for him.

I might've been a threat to that guy, in a "he's having a bad night and no woman wants him, and maybe he sees this guy dressed all flashy and figures he's some dainty ladies man -- well fuck that guy, I can beat him up!" sort of way (like what @DarkKnight describes).

A lot of times though guys are just looking for an outlet for their aggression, and picking on someone they perceive as a soft target.

Soft targets tend to be men who are:

1. Alone / in a smaller group than the aggressor's
   
   
2. Differently dressed / behaved than everyone else (obvious out-group members who don't have backup nearby)
   
   
3. More ostentatious / outgoing / expressive... it's more satisfying to knock down the guy everyone's paying attention to because he's on center stage than it is some guy squirreled off in a corner somewhere

Maybe these guys are always threats though? The ostentatious weird guy is potentially a threat, I suppose, in a way the quiet guy alone in a corner is not. Ostentatious guy, if not put in his place, might end up sucking up all the attention and leaves with the girl. So he needs a fighter to come in and scare him off to prevent him doing so.

Generally as you on 'street smart' skills and present as both a harder target and a more normal guy, people tend to leave you alone more:

How to Be Street Smart & Handle Life-Threatening Situations

Street smarts are something that are invaluable to know, but that you won't know if you haven't grown up in areas that expose you to dangerous or dicey situations. You won't learn street smarts in the halls of a private high school or the sidewalks of an affluent middle class suburb. Instead...

www.girlschase.com

Though if you start peacocking more blatantly or being very loud or stand-out, you'll tend to invite your challengers.

Also keep in mind that there's often a social ladder aspect to people trying to tool you. If you seem too low level they won't bother. Often they are trying to tool you to use you as a rung to help them move up the social ladder a little higher:

Archive: Ultimate Social Calibration: Stop Climbing the Social Ladder

I just read a fascinating article today that brings scientific research to bear on the topic of an old post I made that went on to be featured on some popular dating and seduction websites. The content still resonates and is still relevant today, and so I've reposted again here for you to see...

www.girlschase.com

"Did you think that guy was kind of cool? Well, he's not, ha! I totally tooled him!"

In that case, rather than treat you as a threat or as purely a weirdo out-group member, you're simply being used as a tool by the guy to show off to his buddies (and any girls who might be paying attention).

For these guys, the more you seem like a guy they won't be able to successfully tool, the less you have to worry about them trying any of this stuff with you in the first place.

Chase

 

[RedNeck]

I agree with skills and Darknight .
My white American coworkers got so butt hurt when they saw the white girls flirt with me in the workplace. I wasn’t dressed to be out of the place .
My white American coworkers can’t just comprehend the idea that I am better than them .
I am Arab by the way .

this is not a race comparison.

 

[Skills]

Just re-reading my post...

 

[trashKENNUT]

I am going to claim that I was way ahead in my observations when I talk about this around 2013.

Give me a trophy, people!

On the serious stuff, some of the progressing GC members do face this from time to time. This sucks though. I read @DarkKnight post. He surely has a lot of enemies triggered by themselves.

I realize that some of it is not really clearcut. Especially if the girl doesn't know who he is, and she assumes that you know this guy, when he is clearly out to take you out by purposely making you look like the "weird" one.

If you take him out, you go down with him because the group doesn't know him. If you don't take him out, sometimes she will look at you especially in a group setting because she doesn't know who he is. and she doesn't know that you don't know who he is.

z@c+

 

[DarkKnight]

@ZacAdam Yes.. I am the kind of guy Chase mentions in point 3. When you get higher on the ladder , the amount of challengers increase. Especially in settings where they have numbers on their side... I have noticed that people can really be opportunistic with this.. Waiting out moments when you are alone and be friendly until then, only to try something when they think the timing is right. Like vultures. Or people who pretend to be friendly until they think you are wounded (people can really miscalibrate in this). It is all low class behavior.

I too have been re-reading Chase's post above and it is very interesting how you can draw new information out of already read sources because you have gained more experience.

Addition: I want to add. Usually this amoging behavior is not as personal as one would think, I have seen multiple times how people like this behave like this towards multiple people.. and I wonder how much of it is done consciously. Seems more like coping against threats to me.

 

[trashKENNUT]

and I wonder how much of it is done consciously. Seems more like coping against threats to me.

Not conscious most of the time.

Coping mechanism when you are lacking, no matter who you are.

Example: guys start acting different when girls are around. I emailed about this with @Chase a few years back.

Quite interesting that email.

There's a saying that you can only talk about strategy, philosophy only because you are now fat, as in full.

I am pretty sure that it has always been at play, everytime. It's a matter of how we channel it correctly.

To mentioned, @Skills noted about guys posturing on the forums. I feel that this is because when you are so used to going infield a lot and that infield is a club, pub, brutal area, you tend to bring that with you into other places.

I feel that it is amazing that how you do things and how you think about things, kinda rhymes into all areas of your life. Very amazing. Very scary.

I need to really see past how I do things.

z@c+

 

[DarkKnight]

I feel that it is amazing that how you do things and how you think about things, kinda rhymes into all areas of your life. Very amazing. Very scary.

This is very true

 

[Rakehell]

Waiting out moments when you are alone and be friendly until then, only to try something when they think the timing is right. Like vultures. Or people who pretend to be friendly until they think you are wounded (people can really miscalibrate in this). It is all low class behavior.

Highly accurate to the point it’s almost scary. When a guy can’t successfully tool you in social circle he’ll try to make nice, and tool you under the veil of “friendship”. It’s a form of gaslighting like throwing rocks and hiding your hand.

Other guy’s will band together and use the sheer numbers to play status games. Like the weak using numbers to overpower the strong.

 

[Searcher]

Highly accurate to the point it’s almost scary. When a guy can’t successfully tool you in social circle he’ll try to make nice, and tool you under the veil of “friendship”. It’s a form of gaslighting like throwing rocks and hiding your hand.

Other guy’s will band together and use the sheer numbers to play status games. Like the weak using numbers to overpower the strong.

The whole group attack which guys do can actually work against you. I have had situations where I called out a guy making a passive-aggressive comment and I was framed as being reactive because a couple of guys with him agreed to it and I was thrown under the bus.

These days I am very wary of calling people out when they do passive-aggressive shit. I rather make them expose their own hand by mentioning that their comment seemed off/shady and telling them to explain what it meant.

Sometimes I catch myself slipping too by being a bit over bragging.
(Have to work on how to make myself more relatable while "DHV"ing myself by maybe talk about what I learned instead of straight up talking about my accomplishments)

I wonder if guys with high level of social skills like the moderators here run into AMOG situations as much as those learning.

 

[trashKENNUT]

I wonder if guys with high level of social skills like the moderators here run into AMOG situations as much as those learning.

It is never over.

Sidenote: Thus why BLM, SJW, Feminism.. needs to tear the whole system down.
One might say "what you talking about Zac."

I am saying at its core, the system doesn't represent this group of people.

To all members: The reason that you retaliate is because you are living with people who do not share your belief systems.

Example: In Asia, we have our own Democrat echo chamber, but instead we are of Asian values. Then we started having a quiet truce among Asians because it starts to become too erratic. Too many people follow their own set of laws.

Under one umbrella, Asia looks strong. Until you realize that everyone follows their own set of laws and that it is just as wacky as the United States.

z@c+

 

[DarkKnight]

The whole group attack which guys do can actually work against you. I have had situations where I called out a guy making a passive-aggressive comment and I was framed as being reactive because a couple of guys with him agreed to it and I was thrown under the bus.

Yeah I know the dynamic. Basically the perpetrator can get away with murder because his friends will laugh it away or say that it is a joke, blah blah. I actually have advanced defenses against such guys... I had shut down one group in particular when they tried to do what you described. I took out the leader, made him lose some massive social power and it reined their members in. I didn't get a challenge of any kind from them as of since then. I believe I have even made them lose power as a group.

Basically their leader was getting butthurt that I was getting lots of attention and tried to sabotage me and increasingly became bold as I was being unreactive (he was getting bold by my passiveness , but frustrated due to me not reacting). Great recipe for making a big mistake, which he did and I crippled him there immediately, he hasn't recovered since. Point is when people act like this I do not play by their rules and depending on the circumstances I actually show that I could not care less about their rules and am going to act the way I see fit. Dispels their power.

Also when your fundamentals are very high it is so easy to switch to new people. These mid level players are stuck in their hierarchy... They need to play the slow game to become valued... While you can swoop in like an eagle and are high value by default. It is completely different paradigm.

 

[Rakehell]

The whole group attack which guys do can actually work against you. I have had situations where I called out a guy making a passive-aggressive comment and I was framed as being reactive because a couple of guys with him agreed to it and I was thrown under the bus.

Yeah this is expected. When the only audience is the guy’s lackies they’re pretty much gonna yes man everything he say’s.

You win this by out framing the main guy and shutting him down, and when their friends chime in to back him up you give them a brief glance almost ignoring what they say altogether. To them it’ll feel like “what you’re saying isn’t even worth acknowledging fully” only communicate with them nonverbally.

The strongest guy’s are usually never the initiators, and usually remain defensive as they have nothing to gain from challenging others. So guy’s who are steady challenging normally don’t have great frame control or deep understanding of power dynamics.

 

[Searcher]

So guy’s who are steady challenging normally don’t have great frame control or deep understanding of power dynamics.

Rarely I have seen guys very good at frame control but still challenge you in very subtle ways.

I think of the guys who are very good socially there are two types.

1) ones who don't draw first blood and avoid conflicts unless it's absolutely necessary.

2) ones who look at social interactions as a zero sum game and won't hesitate to use underhanded tactics to come out on top or get what they want.

For an example in the dating scenario you can look at guys who use gaslighting, lying, etc to get the girl.

 

[RedNeck]

Yeah I know the dynamic. Basically the perpetrator can get away with murder because his friends will laugh it away or say that it is a joke, blah blah. I actually have advanced defenses against such guys... I had shut down one group in particular when they tried to do what you described. I took out the leader, made him lose some massive social power and it reined their members in. I didn't get a challenge of any kind from them as of since then. I believe I have even made them lose power as a group.

Basically their leader was getting butthurt that I was getting lots of attention and tried to sabotage me and increasingly became bold as I was being unreactive (he was getting bold by my passiveness , but frustrated due to me not reacting). Great recipe for making a big mistake, which he did and I crippled him there immediately, he hasn't recovered since. Point is when people act like this I do not play by their rules and depending on the circumstances I actually show that I could not care less about their rules and am going to act the way I see fit. Dispels their power.

Also when your fundamentals are very high it is so easy to switch to new people. These mid level players are stuck in their hierarchy... They need to play the slow game to become valued... While you can swoop in like an eagle and are high value by default. It is completely different paradigm.

I have never been able to pull this off ( being unreactive) .
The guy tools me , his group laughs at me . Being unreactive , I think the group would think me as a weak .
How do you do @DarkKnight ?

 

[DarkKnight]

I have never been able to pull this off ( being unreactive) .
The guy tools me , his group laughs at me . Being unreactive , I think the group would think me as a weak .
How do you do @DarkKnight ?

Hey man, I feel guilty for not replying have been postponing it due to crazy work schedules.. now we have less lockdown, I am busier than ever.

So to finish this question:

So you are making two distinctions. The prick and his group, and the bigger group overall. When a group actively dislikes me for whatever reason I avoid them and work around them (this pissed them really off as I was hoarding ze bitches), so if a group and their leader would laugh at me I would probably flip the bird or intimidate the leader. Whatever I do, I reject their frame and then it can be me versus them. I would probably do this in most law of least effort way possible. Hold my frame.

But in my examples it was actually a group within a bigger social circle, so the leader tries to sabotage me and I keep being unreactive as he has no true power except his feeble attempts to influence me. So I act distracted, I don't give him significance (he needs significance and me passively rejecting him makes him angrier, he already feels inferior hence the attacks!). Anyway this frustration became a good mix between bigger obsession and more uncalibrated movement, my passivity meanwhile makes him more bold. At first he is hesitant because he knows I am a badass, but me not really reacting to him, makes him doubt that judgement "hey I can probably pull this of!". But he doesn't understand it is a trap and that I am waiting for an error so I can evade his left jab and place a good old liver kick, metaphorically speaking that is.

This was a very quick response but I hope I make more sense with this.

 

[DakenMarquis]

So in the case of leveling up and having people respect you enough to be your own person. Sigma etc. Do we just calibrate to the challenges, or let them strengthen us. I'm pretty sure I'm on the edge of Middle-High in perception, but this stuff pisses me off, not that I show it. I'm very cool and suave. But does this get better? lol How do we improve faster? I'm very ambitious, and I need to be able to calibrate quickly while not losing my sexual edge, integrity and character