why is eminem so bitter

[Ree]

eminem is a rich ,famous rapper...he has sold millions of albums....he is the only person to win both a grammy and an oscar..
yet if someone says he s not good,he gets offended..why is he so fragile?....still bitter,still insecure,still seeking attention...why are succesful people unable to get a happy ever after,why feel the need to constantly prove yourself?

 

[Mr.Rob]

I had a professional business pyschologist analyze and diagnose my personality and core motivations in a prestigious undergrad business program I was in a few years ago in college. We talked about how I was one of the most ambitious people in the cohort of students (who were arguably the most ambitious students in the whole school) and how my insatiable drive was rooted in low self-esteem and the need to constantly prove to myself my own worth through my success and personal power amassed.

He told me guys with my profile typically achieve quite pretty heroic levels of success by the end of their career but the above average drive stems from an deep rooted sense of lack and a constant need to prove to oneself and others of their own worth.

Sounds like Eminem might have a similar type of personality.

 

[Chase]

@Ree-

I always like to say, you will never ever hear of the happiest, most well adjusted, contented man.

He is too busy sitting on a porch somewhere, taking in the breeze, smiling about life, listening to the birds chirp and watching the bees buzz around.

To get in front of people and 'be known' is marketing. It's putting yourself out there constantly and generating attention toward yourself. It's a huge amount of work. As soon as you stop doing it, people forget about you and stop hearing about you.

No totally normal, satisfied-with-life type will bother with that. And none of the people with platforms want to bother promoting normal, well-adjusted, unmotivated people, because they're just too... uninteresting. The most normal, contented people are also the most boring people -- we ignore 'normal' and look for 'unusual'.

Thus all the public figures you know tend to be at least somewhat weird or damaged people. Even prominent figures in your real life will tend to have some kind of abnormality that drives them to stick their heads out above the pack and stand out.

...

As for the "why is he still" comment... wealth, fame, award wins... none of these things fill that hole in a man's heart. The hole comes from something internal. Nothing external can fill it.


@Rob-

I had a professional business pyschologist analyze and diagnose my personality and core motivations in a prestigious undergrad business program I was in a few years ago in college. We talked about how I was one of the most ambitious people in the cohort of students (who were arguably the most ambitious students in the whole school) and how my insatiable drive was rooted in low self-esteem and the need to constantly prove to myself my own worth through my success and personal power amassed.

He told me guys with my profile typically achieve quite pretty heroic levels of success by the end of their career but the above average drive stems from an deep rooted sense of lack and a constant need to prove to oneself and others of their own worth.

Could be right. But do be careful with psychoanalysis.

Psychoanalysis is still an area with a lot of pseudoscience that does not know it is pseudoscience. Some good, useful stuff, but often mixed with questionable stuff.

It is possible to have a desire to achieve/prove yourself while also having high self-esteem. It might even be the majority of high achievers fall into that camp. The most HSE individuals also tend to be the most aggressive about image control and how others see them; they think highly of themselves, and do not want to lose social competitions or have others tear them down.

There's a bit of nuance to telling the difference between an HSE high achiever and an LSE high achiever. They both achieve lots, but the demons that drive them are different. HSE people may enjoy winning, or want to make their stamp on the world, or feel like they have some great responsibility they must satisfy... their achievement usually revolves around building things or fixing things; things that revolve around contributing to society. LSE people usually yearn for recognition, or acceptance, or to be loved... their achievement usually revolves more around doing things that will get people to notice them, engage with them, and eventually pour attention on them; things that involve getting society to at long last welcome them back in with open arms.

Eminem is probably LSE, because he engages in destructive behavior (drug abuse, public fights with exes, breaking up and getting back together, a suicide attempt after his first album flopped). He also had a very rough childhood, which makes him being LSE a lot more likely too.

I don't know about your childhood and actions... if you had a very rough childhood or engage in a lot of destructive/self-destructive behavior, that could be a sign of LSE.

But be careful about letting psychologists cold read you as LSE just because you are driven.

It probably doesn't really matter if you are actually HSE but go around thinking you are LSE. Because an HSE individual will just twist a label like that into some kind of positive thing anyway: "I am LSE I guess, but I don't let it shake me any!" (which is not how an LSE individual will think... LSE: "I'm LSE and that's why the world rejects me so much, because nobody likes LSE people, they all want to be around HSE people").

Guess we would classify the two like this:

• HSE high achiever: "I want to act upon the world, because it is genuinely fun. Or because I have a holy mission I must see through to the end."

• LSE high achiever: "I want to do things that get me attention, because when I am ignored I feel small and irrelevant. Or because I have felt like a social reject for so long, and I finally want to feel like I belong."

In school environments HSE high achievers go for achievement/recognition because they realize the value of the "favored student" position and forging mentors/alliances with teachers and other high ranking individuals in the environment. The man who wants to achieve does need to prove himself (to his equals, followers, and superiors).

Desire to achieve in and of itself does not mean you are LSE. Your own internal thoughts, background, and the motivations for and ways you express that desire to achieve are what differentiate between you being an HSE high achiever and an LSE high achiever.

Chase

 

[Hue]

When Eminem dropped Revival I almost made an off-topic post about how someone could go from such greatness to such trash. Decided it was too negative. He's the first rapper I listened to and still has a special place in my heart - the dude was (is) inspiring.

I think Chase is entirely right in the context that he's lacking external validation. In this case, he's angry about his lack of control of both the culture and his album reviews / critical acclaim. He had the rap game by the balls for a minute, and he was a total anomaly when he was coming out. He made great work, and did amazing things - but it appears he's idolized his past self, and in doing so separated himself, from himself.

It's a rather poor place to be in, and literally impossible to rekindle. Even if Kamikaze and his next album were to be smash hits, it wouldn't restore his past glory, at least from his eyes (and if it appeared so, that would just be an illusion anyways).


To play devil's advocate, I understand his frustration with the current state of pop rap. He's been harping on that string since 2010 (I can't find the song link, it appears to have been removed from Youtube). And his complaints almost a decade ago about the lack of depth in what is popular have only perpetuated further into the state we have now of rappers like Lil Pump and Rich The Kid. To be honest, I think their shit bangs - but there is a problem of the impact it has on the youth.

When "Lean rappers" hit the scene my friends and I tried the shit out. Probably wouldn't have otherwise. We were highschoolers that were easily influenced by the cool looking and sounding rappers on the scene. The effect is the same when Lil Pump literally drops a song called Drug Addicts (fucking trash, but pretty funny music video). It normalizes, and even hypes up the idea of doing drugs to the point of reliance. It's worrisome - I didn't know rappers were influencing me when I was younger, and some people don't pull out of that shit. It's also statistically true that the younger you start abusing drugs, the more likely you are to become a substance abuser.

However, this has been the direction of hip hop's culture since it came out. The 90's rappers were some of the only people to really get some high-brow concept and conversations going, like KRS One or Talib Kweli. For society, it would probably be better if there were more intellectual conversations happening commonly.

Eminem though, isn't directly standing for this argument. The majority of his raps are technical skill based - and certainly questionable on their influence on the youth (previously rapped about killing is wife and throwing her in a lake). Which is why overall, I think he's just having a hissy fit about his lack of control. Other, more matured rappers, such as Jay-Z, have clearly hit their peak as far as publicly having a tight grip on the culture , and aged beautifully. There's definitely a healthy approach to navigate "peaking" in one direction of a person's career - and Eminem's method of effectively creating album publicity stunts isn't it.

Miss this guy.



Hue

 

[Cacc]

and how my insatiable drive was rooted in low self-esteem and the need to constantly prove to myself my own worth through my success and personal power amassed

bullshit. What you're talking about is narcissism. It's not low self-esteem. Quite the opposite in fact.

 

[Richard]

bullshit. What you're talking about is narcissism. It's not low self-esteem. Quite the opposite in fact.

What in the actual fuck are you talking about?

Nothing about what you quoted indicates narcissism -_-

-Richard

 

[trashKENNUT]

i think there's something there.

I think you mean that selfish gene, not narcissism. That one, everyone has it. It's a survival mechanism that one must be aware of.

Zac

 

[Cacc]

bullshit. What you're talking about is narcissism. It's not low self-esteem. Quite the opposite in fact.

What in the actual fuck are you talking about?

Nothing about what you quoted indicates narcissism -_-

-Richard

richard... still as lost as ever i see. an insatiable drive to gratify one's own existence through the pursuit of personal power and success is as narcissist a trait as it comes. Where did you study psychology?

 

[Richard]

Oh, so we're diagnosing based on Internet forum posts and pop culture? Cool.

Cacc, I'd say that you have Antisocial Personality Disorder, in that case.

 

[Cacc]

Oh, so we're diagnosing based on Internet forum posts and pop culture? Cool.

Cacc, I'd say that you have Antisocial Personality Disorder, in that case.

since when is narcissism a diagnosis? its a personality trait son. Narcissistic personality disorder is a diagnosis. which is not at all what i referred to. you should know that narcissism just like psychopathy is a spectrum and everyone falls somewhere on both spectrums and exudes traits without having to be clinically diagnosed. come on dude, this is basic psychology.

and ive already been diagnosed with aspd. but thanks anyway. maybe if you change your attitude a tad i wouldnt have to make you look silly.

 

[Richard]

Narcissism is a spectrum disorder which is why it can be diagnosed - talking about somebody have narcissism to any degree is "diagnosing" even if it's not in the clinical sense.

To the original argument -

and how my insatiable drive was rooted in low self-esteem and the need to constantly prove to myself my own worth through my success and personal power amassed

First off, this is not Rob saying it about himself - this is somebody else's account of Rob.

Second, you can't say that what's outline above is narcissism based on that single sentence alone because other variables and elements are required to consider it "narcissism." So, you saying that this is narcissism instead of low self-esteem is ignorant.

Third, he literally said "Prove to myself" which is a concept foreign to Narcissists.

It might be a fine one but there is a definite line between what Rob said (or rather the business psychologist said) and actual narcissism. A great example of somebody who suffered from low self-esteem and used it as fuel to succeed is Oprah Winfrey. A great example of somebody who showcases textbook narcissism would be Kanye West.

 

[Hue]

Cacc wrote,

richard... still as lost as ever i see.

maybe if you change your attitude a tad i wouldnt have to make you look silly.

Lmao.

You are one entertaining narcissistic sociopath Cacc, I'll give you that.


Hue

 

[Cacc]

Narcissism is a spectrum disorder which is why it can be diagnosed - talking about somebody have narcissism to any degree is "diagnosing" even if it's not in the clinical sense.

No it's not. Narcissism is a personality trait that everyone has. It's not a disorder at all.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism

Narcissistic Personality Disorder is the diagnosis of an individual who exceeds the spectrum of healthy narcissism. It is not only pathological byt pervasive and It is developed as a coping mechanism by children who are emotionally neglected by one or both parents.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

Narcissism vs Narcissistic Personality Disorder:
https://www.mentalhelp.net/blogs/the-narcissist-versus-the-narcissistic-personality-disorder/

First off, this is not Rob saying it about himself - this is somebody else's account of Rob.

except i never said rob was a narcissist... i pointed out the behavior he mentioned was a narcissistic trait and a byproduct of high self-esteem.

Third, he literally said "Prove to myself" which is a concept foreign to Narcissists.It might be a fine one but there is a definite line between what Rob said (or rather the business psychologist said) and actual narcissism. A great example of somebody who suffered from low self-esteem and used it as fuel to succeed is Oprah Winfrey. A great example of somebody who showcases textbook narcissism would be Kanye West.

There are many different subtypes of Narcissism. Congrats, you spotted a garden-variety overt narcissist. Literally the easiest to spot. There is covert narcissism, amorous narcissism, malignant narcissism, etc. Narcissism has the most subtypes out of all pds. Not all of them are extravagant like Kanye West. Adolf Hitler, Fidel Castro, and Joseph Stalin where in all likelihood a subtype of extreme Narcissism. Malignant, most probably.

 

[Cacc]

Cacc wrote,

richard... still as lost as ever i see.

maybe if you change your attitude a tad i wouldnt have to make you look silly.

Lmao.

You are one entertaining narcissistic sociopath Cacc, I'll give you that.


Hue

I wonder if you'd still think that if I fucked your gf? It's a form of sadism I'd enjoy much more than Richard's boring debates.

 

[Hue]

 

[Richard]

 

[Cacc]

giving up ma man?

 

[Cacc]

so boring. here i was expecting the great richard to put up more of a fight. maybe its that chastity belt his girlfriends got around his waist

 

[Ree]

@Ree-

I always like to say, you will never ever hear of the happiest, most well adjusted, contented man.

He is too busy sitting on a porch somewhere, taking in the breeze, smiling about life, listening to the birds chirp and watching the bees buzz around.

To get in front of people and 'be known' is marketing. It's putting yourself out there constantly and generating attention toward yourself. It's a huge amount of work. As soon as you stop doing it, people forget about you and stop hearing about you.

No totally normal, satisfied-with-life type will bother with that. And none of the people with platforms want to bother promoting normal, well-adjusted, unmotivated people, because they're just too... uninteresting. The most normal, contented people are also the most boring people -- we ignore 'normal' and look for 'unusual'.

Thus all the public figures you know tend to be at least somewhat weird or damaged people. Even prominent figures in your real life will tend to have some kind of abnormality that drives them to stick their heads out above the pack and stand out.

...

As for the "why is he still" comment... wealth, fame, award wins... none of these things fill that hole in a man's heart. The hole comes from something internal. Nothing external can fill it.


@Rob-

I had a professional business pyschologist analyze and diagnose my personality and core motivations in a prestigious undergrad business program I was in a few years ago in college. We talked about how I was one of the most ambitious people in the cohort of students (who were arguably the most ambitious students in the whole school) and how my insatiable drive was rooted in low self-esteem and the need to constantly prove to myself my own worth through my success and personal power amassed.

He told me guys with my profile typically achieve quite pretty heroic levels of success by the end of their career but the above average drive stems from an deep rooted sense of lack and a constant need to prove to oneself and others of their own worth.

Could be right. But do be careful with psychoanalysis.

Psychoanalysis is still an area with a lot of pseudoscience that does not know it is pseudoscience. Some good, useful stuff, but often mixed with questionable stuff.

It is possible to have a desire to achieve/prove yourself while also having high self-esteem. It might even be the majority of high achievers fall into that camp. The most HSE individuals also tend to be the most aggressive about image control and how others see them; they think highly of themselves, and do not want to lose social competitions or have others tear them down.

There's a bit of nuance to telling the difference between an HSE high achiever and an LSE high achiever. They both achieve lots, but the demons that drive them are different. HSE people may enjoy winning, or want to make their stamp on the world, or feel like they have some great responsibility they must satisfy... their achievement usually revolves around building things or fixing things; things that revolve around contributing to society. LSE people usually yearn for recognition, or acceptance, or to be loved... their achievement usually revolves more around doing things that will get people to notice them, engage with them, and eventually pour attention on them; things that involve getting society to at long last welcome them back in with open arms.

Eminem is probably LSE, because he engages in destructive behavior (drug abuse, public fights with exes, breaking up and getting back together, a suicide attempt after his first album flopped). He also had a very rough childhood, which makes him being LSE a lot more likely too.

I don't know about your childhood and actions... if you had a very rough childhood or engage in a lot of destructive/self-destructive behavior, that could be a sign of LSE.

But be careful about letting psychologists cold read you as LSE just because you are driven.

It probably doesn't really matter if you are actually HSE but go around thinking you are LSE. Because an HSE individual will just twist a label like that into some kind of positive thing anyway: "I am LSE I guess, but I don't let it shake me any!" (which is not how an LSE individual will think... LSE: "I'm LSE and that's why the world rejects me so much, because nobody likes LSE people, they all want to be around HSE people").

Guess we would classify the two like this:

• HSE high achiever: "I want to act upon the world, because it is genuinely fun. Or because I have a holy mission I must see through to the end."

• LSE high achiever: "I want to do things that get me attention, because when I am ignored I feel small and irrelevant. Or because I have felt like a social reject for so long, and I finally want to feel like I belong."

In school environments HSE high achievers go for achievement/recognition because they realize the value of the "favored student" position and forging mentors/alliances with teachers and other high ranking individuals in the environment. The man who wants to achieve does need to prove himself (to his equals, followers, and superiors).

Desire to achieve in and of itself does not mean you are LSE. Your own internal thoughts, background, and the motivations for and ways you express that desire to achieve are what differentiate between you being an HSE high achiever and an LSE high achiever.

Chase

makes sense,
its a paradox,i like music from eminem,linkin park,2pac,and i would wish they were happy, yet now i realize had they been happy,they would not have made music in the first place.
i feel so sad,that all that money fails to give them happiness
how would you recomend a man go about fixing his hole from within

 

[Mr.Rob]

Cacc, you gotta relax brutha man. So much hostility over semantics, I wouldn't want to debate with you either if your gonna get bent out of shape and be disrespectful over petty shit. It's just draining man we're on here build each other up not tank each others emotional reserves over semantics.

bullshit. What you're talking about is narcissism. It's not low self-esteem. Quite the opposite in fact.

First off, this is not Rob saying it about himself - this is somebody else's account of Rob.

Preciate you lookin' out Rich

I'm not going to comment on the narcissism thing it seems off topic, and there's enough debate already not going anywhere but I think what Chase said is fucking interesting:

There's a bit of nuance to telling the difference between an HSE high achiever and an LSE high achiever. They both achieve lots, but the demons that drive them are different. HSE people may enjoy winning, or want to make their stamp on the world, or feel like they have some great responsibility they must satisfy... their achievement usually revolves around building things or fixing things; things that revolve around contributing to society. LSE people usually yearn for recognition, or acceptance, or to be loved... their achievement usually revolves more around doing things that will get people to notice them, engage with them, and eventually pour attention on them; things that involve getting society to at long last welcome them back in with open arms.

Not exactly sure how you came across this distinction but it seems pretty accurate. If that's the case I'd def fall into HSE 100%. What about the rest of you guys? I know Rich falls into HSE based on this definition, he's always talked about making an impact and giving back to society.

I don't know about your childhood and actions... if you had a very rough childhood or engage in a lot of destructive/self-destructive behavior, that could be a sign of LSE.

It probably doesn't really matter if you are actually HSE but go around thinking you are LSE. Because an HSE individual will just twist a label like that into some kind of positive thing anyway: "I am LSE I guess, but I don't let it shake me any!" (which is not how an LSE individual will think... LSE: "I'm LSE and that's why the world rejects me so much, because nobody likes LSE people, they all want to be around HSE people").

Hilarious that's exactly what I did. A few other students were told they had LSE and came out the meeting crying but I always thought it was badass to have an excuse for my above avg. ambition level.

That being said I've definitely engaged in my fair share of self-destructive behavior and before learning to handle myself I was always prone to people walking over me as a kid, so who knows perhaps I'm naturally LSE but adapted HSE in adulthood.

Guys just let me tell you this psychoanalyst guy was a pro at cold reading people man he told me such spot on stuff without asking any questions about me by just looking at a sheet of paper. That's probably why I believed him on low self esteem bit so readily and maybe he's right but damn that cold reading is powerful.