Women Who Reject You - Should You Ask Them Why?

Troy

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Alright!

Back in March when the COVID19 started, I was texting and calling a couple girls every 1-2 weeks and they eventually fell off and stopped replying to my texts and calls. The lockdown prevented me from getting them out on a date fast enough and now life is returning to a some normalty, I have not learned anything in terms of where I did things right or wrong with these girls.

In many areas of life I see people ask for or give feedback on where they went wrong, for example:

-A company loses a customer and asks for feedback to see where they went wrong
-Schools gives feedback reports every year to students to show their performance and where they could improve
-Coaches and consultants tell their students where they need to improve

So what I wanted to do was to either call/text the girls who did reject a date request or stopped responding to me in a good way, and I wanted to ask them:

"What exactly did I do wrong that turned you off from wanting to date me?"
"What would you recommend I change in my approach when I speak to women?"

So if I were to text that, it would look like this:

"Hey (name). I understand that you no longer want to date or talk to me. And I am respect your decision, I wanted to get your quick feedback on what I did wrong that made you change your mind and not want to talk or see me anymore? I am dating other women and I am always focused on improving my game, and I don't want to repeat the same mistakes over and over . I would truly appreciate your honest feedback on where I did good or bad. Thanks"

Would anyone recommend I even do this to women? Please pardon me if this question comes across as quite strange. I have mixed feelings that it could be a good idea. I also have feelings this could be a horrible idea. The reason I want to do this is because I honestly have no idea where I messed up in the courtship with these girls. I am a little cautious to try this approach because it might come across as "beta male" approval seeking to these women. But even if it does, all I really want right now is their honest feedback so I can learn from my mistakes and do better when I meet more girls.

Your thoughs are appreciated GC?
 
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Chase

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I know a guy who tried this for a while.

He was a "hard case" guy, like you, @Troy.

I suggested he not bother, because the answers he got would not be useful / would be rationalizations.

I heard a lot of the stuff that women told him, and it was basically all generic, useless stuff. In some cases he actually had a suspicion of why the woman really rejected him, but what the woman would tell him would be some throwaway reason.

Stuff like, "You're too old for me," or, "You're not really my type," or, "I don't go out with guys I meet on the street," or other things she'll say to a guy she's uninterested in, but won't say to another guy who is his same age, his same type, who meets her on the street, but to whom she's attracted.

He still does it with girls who ghost him or break off their relationships with him. And gets the same kinds of generic non-answers from them: "I didn't really feel a spark." But he doesn't do it with women he approaches anymore.

Dating is like most things social. Imagine a politician asking people who didn't vote for him why they didn't vote for him. Imagine Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton asking someone who did not vote for him, "Why didn't you vote for me?" Then try to imagine getting anything actionable back from that. People who do these kinds of polls ("Here's why people didn't vote for Hillary Clinton") get completely the wrong conclusions, because people do not consciously know why they choose one person for a role in their lives and not another person.

It's unfortunate, because trying to diagnose things over forums is also messy, and not always accurate.

But talking to veterans is generally going to be much more productive of actionable answers (or workable leads, at least) than polling random untrained people on why they made the complex choice they made.

Chase
 

Troy

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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I know a guy who tried this for a while.

He was a "hard case" guy, like you, @Troy.

I suggested he not bother, because the answers he got would not be useful / would be rationalizations.

I heard a lot of the stuff that women told him, and it was basically all generic, useless stuff. In some cases he actually had a suspicion of why the woman really rejected him, but what the woman would tell him would be some throwaway reason.

Stuff like, "You're too old for me," or, "You're not really my type," or, "I don't go out with guys I meet on the street," or other things she'll say to a guy she's uninterested in, but won't say to another guy who is his same age, his same type, who meets her on the street, but to whom she's attracted.

He still does it with girls who ghost him or break off their relationships with him. And gets the same kinds of generic non-answers from them: "I didn't really feel a spark." But he doesn't do it with women he approaches anymore.

Dating is like most things social. Imagine a politician asking people who didn't vote for him why they didn't vote for him. Imagine Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton asking someone who did not vote for him, "Why didn't you vote for me?" Then try to imagine getting anything actionable back from that. People who do these kinds of polls ("Here's why people didn't vote for Hillary Clinton") get completely the wrong conclusions, because people do not consciously know why they choose one person for a role in their lives and not another person.

It's unfortunate, because trying to diagnose things over forums is also messy, and not always accurate.

But talking to veterans is generally going to be much more productive of actionable answers (or workable leads, at least) than polling random untrained people on why they made the complex choice they made.

Chase

I see what you are saying @Chase

I already suspect the possible reasons these girls stopped responding to my calls and texts now that COVID19 rules are relaxed. Here are my suspicions:

1. This girl and myself we work at the same company, 2 different branches. I dont have a car and I work a call center job so finances are very tight. I have been walking about 2 miles every day (since November 2018) to and from my job so I could save $100 a month to help fund my business. This girl frequently saw me walk past her branch location, she messaged me on Instagram saying "you are real good to walk everyday". I brushed it off by telling her "I live very close to work so I dont need a taxi plus I am investing money into my business". Most people have cars and drive to work, those few without cars they take public transport. Anyhow, I took her on a date shortly after and at the end of the date we were kissed but she refused to go home with me. Then COVID happened right when I was setting up a 2nd date with her. I texted/called her every 2 weeks for a short and flirty conversation during the lockdown.

In May I asked her out to go to a river and garden (since public spaces are still closed). We live about 30 miles apart. When I last called her up in May, her answer to me was "sure I will go with you once COVID is over, only thing is I would need us to drive, certain places I go I cannot bother with the hassle of taking public transport".

I told her "I would either hire a taxi or rent a car for the day". She said "Cool". Since then, she has not been answering my calls so I quit doing that back in June and she stopped responding to my texts back in July.

Potential Problem: She wants to go out with a guy who has a car
Solution: I need to get my finances in order to buy a car

(I have heard this objection from girls multiple times when I ask them out, its actually annoying to hear this. Because here I am, with ambition, the girls know it and they are jerking me around like this over material stuff. I made a previous post talking about this situation and the other Girls Chase members were super helpful in telling me what to focus on. Which I am currently doing my best to implement).

2. Women already had fuck buddies before COVID19 and during the lockdown, they were busy fucking regularly in secret. So during the lockdown, while I was calling or texting them every 1-2 weeks, these girls already had a guy or a rotation of guys who they kept a secret. I could not ask them girls out on a date to even get that opportunity + my logistics are fucked up, living with the parents during the lockdown, girls would not even want to risk coming out to see me and getting stuck in my home. I find it difficult to believe that a lot of women would spend the last 5 months without dick. She were screwing with men they met before COVID who they already had a tight connection with. So even though I was flirty with these girls, life was hectic enought that those conversations were not enough to keep them interested for 3 + months of just talking.

Solution: I dont have a solution to this, its already what it is

3. Some key element of my game is off which caused the girls to lose attraction during the COVID lockdown. Thing is, I have no idea what it is. I dont know if I said anything wrong. And because I had phone calls, its really difficult for me to even recall to write a proper field report outling my conversations.

I guess I am just going to have to accept losing these girls during COVID19. I already deleted their phone numbers from my phone, (I do have a backup stored deep in my Google Drive just in case) primarily because I was starting to develop Oneitis and I felt the pain of rejection every time I opened my phone and saw their names and numbers. From that list of suspicions I have, I doubt the girl is going to even tell me the truth or even know herself why she stopped talking to me (but I wasnt 100% sure hence why I made this post in the 1st place). For instance, if she was fucking some other guy during lockdown, she will never say "Hey Troy, I was fucking another guy and I like him more so thats why I dont talk to you anymore". I dont think girls would want be such savages and hurt my feelings to that extent.

I am honestly still in denial that I lost all these girls during COVID19, it is starting to scare me away from dating to be honest. I just feel that "the setup" I have right now is not suited to dating. I should probably just hang up the dating completely until life return to normal, sad to say. I am just going to keep working on my fundamentals and finances. The goal is to get #1 objection handled ASAP so girls can no longer give me the bullshit objection about my logistics. By the time I get that handled, I hopefully will already have my finances and fundamentals in place.

Again Chase, thanks for sharing your wisdom on my situation.

Troy
 
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immy3482

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because the answers he got would not be useful / would be rationalizations

Yep this was exactly my experience. For a long time I asked every girl why she said no, because I was genuinely curious. Most of the answers were girls just trying to spare my feelings - "I'm just not in a place to date" or "You didn't do anything wrong" etc. And I'd get contradictory answers, eg one girl would say "I didn't like that you called me cute" so I'd try being less-direct and then girls would tell me, "I wasn't sure what you actually wanted and I feel like you kind of tricked me by not telling me you were hitting on me until we'd already talked for 15 minutes".

I should probably just hang up the dating completely until life return to normal,

I wouldn't do that. You have no idea how long until things "return to normal" - how long are you going to wait? Make the most of what you have right now, even if you have to work 10 times harder just to go on a date.
 
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ulrich

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I used to do that.
As Chase said, the answers you get from most girls are useless and will let you more confused.

I still do it but only with girls that seemed like we were really really getting into a LTR and things went akward.
With these girls, I get much better feedback but still most of it is non-actionable (she is moving away soon, she has a psycho ex-gf stalking her, she is another religion, etc...).
Still half truth, half rationalizations.

I find this somewhat helpful but what is even more useful is listening to my gut feelings:
1) I feel like she is letting me down gently and insisting we should be friends? I failed sparking attraction or capitalizing on it.
2) I feel like she says we should meet later but she simply has no time? My attainability was too high and she is not excited about me.
3) I feel like she is she avoiding me and acting slightly angry/insulted? My attainability was too low and I failed letting her know I care for her.

That should cover 95% of your issues as a newbie.
 

ulrich

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I see what you are saying @Chase
Potential Problem: She wants to go out with a guy who has a car
Solution: I need to get my finances in order to buy a car

.........

I am honestly still in denial that I lost all these girls during COVID19, it is starting to scare me away from dating to be honest. I just feel that "the setup" I have right now is not suited to dating. I should probably just hang up the dating completely until life return to normal, sad to say. I am just going to keep working on my fundamentals and finances. The goal is to get #1 objection handled ASAP so girls can no longer give me the bullshit objection about my logistics. By the time I get that handled, I hopefully will already have my finances and fundamentals in place.

You are overthinking this and making it all about yourself.
This is as much about the girls as it is about you.

Female sex drive is a in lifetime record low. Women care about health much much much more than guys and they are taking much less risks.
Read this article: https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-girls-perception-covid-19-affects-her-sex-drive

Also, if she is fucking a buddy of hers, what do you care?
Do you feel she is betraying you for having a casual partner that happens to not be you while you only dated her once?
You need to work on that.
 

Troy

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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I wouldn't do that. You have no idea how long until things "return to normal" - how long are you going to wait? Make the most of what you have right now, even if you have to work 10 times harder just to go on a date.

Bro! This situation has happened to me numerous times and the issue is I don't know exactly where I went wrong. All I need to do now is write more detailed field reports on here. I dropped off doing that for sometime because I was preoccupied with sorting out other life stuff, my fault there. With that said, the #1 issue I think I am having is my logistics. Most times I go on a date, I flirt a lot with the girls and they totally love it. But I am not getting 2nd dates. Usually I go for public sex and that is very difficult. On the rare occasions I get it. Most times I am not even in a situation to get a girl alone to escalate to sex.

Take for example the last date I had in February, I was kissing this girl in a park, at the end of the night I asked her to come home and she declined saying "I have to give money to my babysitter". It was 11:30PM at night so I knew that was a bullshit excuse to not go home. I tried to convince her "we would go by my place for drinks, and I wanted to show you my vision board on my wall". (An excuse for plausible deniability).

Here is the thing, we took a taxi from the public park back into the city and she insisted I take her to her bus stop where I put her on a taxi and she gave me a kiss on the lips before she jumped in the car. Fast forward now August, that girl has stopped replying to my texts. Back to her bullshit response about needing to go home. There were little kids running all around the park so there is no way we could even do discreet sex on the park lawns. The bathrooms has security guards at the door monitoring who was going in and out so I could not pull here there.

The biggest fuck up I had on that date was my logistics: If I had my own car, I would have just left the park and took her to my car and escalated to sex from there.

I clearly remember it was 9:30pm and I wanted to ask her home. She was kissing me and in the back of my mind all I could think was "my parents and siblings are awake probably watching TV right now so I cannot invite my girl home, let me wait until 11pm when they would be getting into bed and I would ask her home then".

Problem, I waited too long to get her home. 90 minutes more I was streching out the date with conversation and cuddling on the lawns. Thats a typical example of how a lot of my recent dates have gone and it always annoys me when I dont get to sex or 2nd dates.

This has happened so many times, its actually making me question what is the point of going on dates, kissing girls, thinking I might have a shot at getting to sex when my logistics are all fucked up. I literraly have to be looking for some bathroom where there are no security guards around or there is no other people.

I totally understand what you are saying @killyourinnerloser. I am just getting really scared of dating with my current logistics situation. Thats all.

You are overthinking this and making it all about yourself.
This is as much about the girls as it is about you.

Female sex drive is a in lifetime record low. Women care about health much much much more than guys and they are taking much less risks.
Read this article: https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-girls-perception-covid-19-affects-her-sex-drive

Also, if she is fucking a buddy of hers, what do you care?
Do you feel she is betraying you for having a casual partner that happens to not be you while you only dated her once?
You need to work on that.

I dont think she is betraying me for having a sexual partner. She is not my girlfriend so she can do whatever she wants. My only regret was my setup and logistics were bad so I was handicapped on that date. And thats where I lost.
 

Slick

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2. Women already had fuck buddies before COVID19 and during the lockdown, they were busy fucking regularly in secret. So during the lockdown, while I was calling or texting them every 1-2 weeks, these girls already had a guy or a rotation of guys who they kept a secret.
Ew lol maybe you saved yourself from getting infected with corona (and other stuff...)

I guess I am just going to have to accept losing these girls during COVID19. I already deleted their phone numbers from my phone, (I do have a backup stored deep in my Google Drive just in case) primarily because I was starting to develop Oneitis and I felt the pain of rejection every time I opened my phone and saw their names and numbers. From that list of suspicions I have, I doubt the girl is going to even tell me the truth or even know herself why she stopped talking to me (but I wasnt 100% sure hence why I made this post in the 1st place).

if you don't have a car you're better off saving $$ instead of getting taxis to take half interested chicks out on dates

asking females for feedback as to why they didn't respond to you is a waste of time. they either won't say or they won't tell the truth. if a woman is highly attracted to you, she will risk getting covid to sleep with you. the lack of responses is just due to lack of interest.

at some point you'll realize that even if your setup is right and you get more interest from women, it still won't make you happy.
 

Troy

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Ew lol maybe you saved yourself from getting infected with corona (and other stuff...)

I guess that is a joke so LOL

if you don't have a car you're better off saving $$ instead of getting taxis to take half interested chicks out on dates

asking females for feedback as to why they didn't respond to you is a waste of time. they either won't say or they won't tell the truth. if a woman is highly attracted to you, she will risk getting covid to sleep with you. the lack of responses is just due to lack of interest.

You understand my point 100% @Slick I would end up taking these girls who were interested (or semi) on dates. I am in the back of a taxi with the girls and all I can do is kiss them. Most of the girls in my age range that I end up going on dates with also have crappy logistics. I took girls on dates who still live with their Mom, who share bedrooms with other folks e.t.c.. (The girls who really have their life together, a car and apartment..I dont recall every getting such a girl to say yes and go on a date, as yet, but with time and continued growth in my skills I will get there, I believe in myself to do that). So 2 people who like each other, who have shitty logistics = shitty end to dates

I agree, in fact the more I think about it. Lets say a girls celebrity crush hit her up on Instagram and said "I want to take you out on a date", during the worst part of COVID, I bet a lot of girls would take the risk. They would not say to this super rich celebrity guy "ok we will see when COVID is over". They would get dressed in something sexy and try to get sex from the celebrity dude as quickly as possible.

at some point you'll realize that even if your setup is right and you get more interest from women, it still won't make you happy.

Why do you say it still wont make me happy when I have my setup right and more girls are interested? That puzzles me.
 

ulrich

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I agree, in fact the more I think about it. Lets say a girls celebrity crush hit her up on Instagram and said "I want to take you out on a date", during the worst part of COVID, I bet a lot of girls would take the risk. They would not say to this super rich celebrity guy "ok we will see when COVID is over". They would get dressed in something sexy and try to get sex from the celebrity dude as quickly as possible.

This only shows that you don’t get women as much as you think, yet.
For most women if a celebrity comes out of the blue and asks them to fuck their first thought will be “why me?”.

Women are not men.
I feel from your comments that you are struggling with your mental models and you’re growing bitter and jaded because your expectations are off.
You need to learn more about female psychology.

How old are you?
If you’re younger than 20, heck if you’re younger than 30, I promise this will get much much easier with time.
Be patient, trust me.
 

Randy_91

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I have tried this in the past and it's an absolute waste of time, even with girls who were really into you. I had a girlfriend at the start of the COVID crisis that couldn't get enough of me. She was head over heels and would text and call me every day. As the lockdown dragged on her texts and calls started to dwindle and eventually dried up altogether. She eventually texted me in a totally nonchalant way calling it day between us. No valid reason was given just some generic bs. What happened was I became to available, I was responding to her texts to quickly and was trying to get her to come over and see me during the lockdown. I showed low-value behaviour and it turned her off me. A man has to be the one in control of the relationship and the women should be doing 70%-80% of the texting and calling. She needs to chase you.

I thought about asking her the reason but what you have to realise is that women are driven almost entirely by emotion. If she says she loves you it's only valid at that moment in time because that's how she feels at that time. You could make the mistake of showing some weak behaviour to her and two days later she could be thinking why was I ever with that guy. Show high-value behaviour to women and it's like someone flicked on the attraction switch in her mind. As soon as you show low-value behaviour that switch is flicked off again.
 

YS.

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I don't think you'll ever gonna get honest answers but why not if you can read between the lines.

I asked this with a recent Tinder date that went awry and got super valuable information. But it's never overt.
 

Troy

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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This only shows that you don’t get women as much as you think, yet.
For most women if a celebrity comes out of the blue and asks them to fuck their first thought will be “why me?”.

Women are not men.
I feel from your comments that you are struggling with your mental models and you’re growing bitter and jaded because your expectations are off.
You need to learn more about female psychology.

How old are you?
If you’re younger than 20, heck if you’re younger than 30, I promise this will get much much easier with time.
Be patient, trust me.

I want to acknowledge that I have read your message and I am thinking carefully about what you said, from your point of view. I can't say I agree or disagree. What I do is try to paint as much of a realistic picture in writing of my dating life.

I don't recall every mentioning I think I get a lot of women on dates or sex. I am physically attractive to a lot of girls and I get a lot of approach invitations when I am out and about. Even when I am at work, I have women eye balling my looks. Many times in the past I have not made any attempts to use those approach invitations to get dates because I was more focused on getting my money right first.

On the occasions I do decide to ask a girl out, of course I do get rejected a lot. Some girls who are interested I do take on cheap dates mainly to locations like gardens or parks where its cheaper and I can get quiet time to have conversation. I have gotten laid in public before but it does not happen often since its difficult to pull off because of logistics issues.

A fairly good amount of the girls I get on dates, I end up kissing them. But I dont really get 2nd dates, which has something to do with my game which I can improve on. These days I spend more time focusing on making money so I have not cold approached in a long time. Getting my setup in order is most important. And because I have not really put myself out there for dating as much as I used to, some of my skills are not as sharp as they could be.

Thats a summary of how my dating life looks. I am not a playboy who gets tons of girls. At the same time I am not a bum who never gets kisses of gets laid.

I am 24 years old. I am really trying to read your post from your point of view to extract as much value from what you are saying. I don't think I am bitter. I do think I am sometimes depressed about not being further in life than I had anticipated. I am a hard working guy who knows exactly where I want to go. So not being where I want is sometimes a drag.

I hope I was able to paint a more realistic picture of my life with this response. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
 

PrancingRabbit

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If you are on a cold streak, it can be good to ask. Not because if she is willing to be honest she will tell you something you don't already know, but that you need to hear it from an external source because you are in denial about it (hence the cold streak). But, in my experience, you should expect to hate her afterwards lol.
 

aliparpar

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I think the best action from dates and actions in the field is to post them on the field report page and ask for opinions from the community here. Otherwise, I'd recommend hiring a GC coach for an hour to give you all pointers you need. Far more productive than getting feedback from girls themselves as Chase suggested - they will rationalise their emotional opinions which give you nothing to work on.
 
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