WTF is going on with me?

[moom]

Don't know whats happening here.

Can't seem to pull from night game, and even not dates lately?

Background: I have fairly decent game. 70+ lays, know how to do all the basics. My fundamentals are on point, I get like 5+ compliments every-time I go out. My body could definitely be worked on, but I'm not fat lol. I'm bold and direct, get good responses from girls especially in the beginning. I just can't get a fucking lay with a girl I want?!

I slept with a mediocre girl who pretty much booty called me 2 nights ago after we spoke for like 5 minutes, but she wasn't attractive. I went because I needed to bust a nut.

Obviously its hard to explain what I could be doing wrong. So in a situation like mine, whats my best bet? Should I hire a private coach? Because I'm willing to do that. I can't seem to figure out what I'm doing wrong with my night game for same night pulls- just that I'm fucking something up.

Possible causes:

1) I haven't been able to get really horny around girls lately. Perhaps its the cold? I'm bold and direct but I don't think my dicks been hard even once tonight even after all the approaches I did.

2) I'm not able to hook the girls I want? I'll have conversation but it all becomes one sided- the girls I like won't really contribute back, flirt back, or really give back in the conversation the way I do.

3) Fundamentals wise, I know I'm like top 10% in every place I go. Yet after being approached, a girl will talk to me for like a minute and then turn away. Like whats going on? lol

4) I'm sleeping with girls I consider 5s. Massively struggling with 7s and upwards. Tips? Ideas? Coaches you could recommend?

 

[trashKENNUT]

Background: I have fairly decent game. 70+ lays, know how to do all the basics. My fundamentals are on point, I get like 5+ compliments every-time I go out. My body could definitely be worked on, but I'm not fat lol. I'm bold and direct, get good responses from girls especially in the beginning. I just can't get a fucking lay with a girl I want?!

This is dangerous.

I have meet guys who pull asses easily in one niche but find themselves like 'deer in headlights'.

Naturals have this problem.
School jocks have this problem.
Religion people who gets kisses easily with girls (but they don't go to sex), have this problem.

I really don't know your background.

Your game might be fine but you might be holding a Bible in a nightclub per se.



z@c+

 

[ElderPrice]

Some things a coach will ask:

- What do YOU think the issue is?

- Has anything changed about you or your approach from your days of success to right now?

- How many 7+ girls are you approaching each night out?

 

[metalbird]

Momo, I can relate to what you're describing. I suspect it's a fairly common situation for a lot of users of this site. It essentially revolves around this pattern:

• When you are young/inexperienced, all women are a mystery to you
• As you learn game (if you're a student type) or experience women (as a natural), you develop memory patterns over time of what types of women you have success with, and what types reject you/make you feel like shit (harsh rejections, etc)
• After a while, you develop deeply ingrained biases that are very often not true. This could be like "I am good with fat chicks but not hot chicks" or (a common problem for some naturals I've met) "I am good with black/white/asian chicks but not black/white/asian chicks" (This always comes from whatever type of girls the natural was around in the beginning.

For example, do you ever wonder, "Why are 5's so horny and always interested in casual sex -- they will come over to my place on the first date and happily suck my dick"? Instead, think "ALL WOMEN are so horny and always interested in casual sex -- they will come over to my place on the first date and happily suck my dick". In the same way you can just replace every thought about "5's" with "All WOMEN"

 

[Skills]

i am just going to give you some bullet points:

- again you are not really asking anything, journal and post interactions.
- it seems you don't have approach anxiety and you can open BUT you are not reaching HOOK POINT, work on reaching hook point consistently, if not you are just an approach opening machine like an rsdtard.
- Is ok to bang the troll to gain momentum as long as you don't get her prego and keep sleeping with her making it a habit, is good at times to flip dynamics so you can feel like the hot women feel, you are the hot women the troll is you...
-are those 70 lays from nighgame, i guarantee you most of them are NOT FROM NIGHT GAME but online, do not lie to yourself on your results...
- bold and direct with hotter women is going to make things wayyyy harder..
-make sure you are structuring your night in the right way and not spending tooo much time with going nowhere sets, on the going nowhere sets, get the number and change venues...

The main important thing to pull night game is logistics not horniness per se, but horniness gives you the killer attitude that help close deals... But horniness sometimes can be an excuse at your age, cause you had no problem banging the troll...

 

[moom]

This is dangerous.

I have meet guys who pull asses easily in one niche but find themselves like 'deer in headlights'.

Naturals have this problem.
School jocks have this problem.
Religion people who gets kisses easily with girls (but they don't go to sex), have this problem.

I really don't know your background.

Your game might be fine but you might be holding a Bible in a nightclub per se.



z@c+

I’ve been trying to calibrate. Trying to play aggressive with the approaches in the louder venues, direct and bold as fuck compared to the “i just noticed you” approaches I do in day game.

Its interesting how it works with 5s but not 7s and up. It may be a vibe problem

 

[moom]

Some things a coach will ask:

- What do YOU think the issue is?

- Has anything changed about you or your approach from your days of success to right now?

- How many 7+ girls are you approaching each night out?

1) I think the issue is a vibe problem- if I go in indirect, the girl scoffs and really just moves on. If I go in direct, the girl pays attention, but just throws resistance and indifference the entire time.

2) Well actually had very little success with girls in night game from me approaching. Almost all with girls that approached me or gave me a blatant signal (like direct eye contact for like 1 minute or walking past by me sliding their hands right across mine). Plenty of day game approach success, plenty of social circle game success, but not with night game.

In terms of online game, the last two girls I went out with from Bumble I haven’t been able to pull either. First girl was really into me but I didnt find her attractive in person and was just going through the motions (she looked much different than her two pictures lol). So I’m sure she felt that, and didnt get horny for me. Came all the way to my house but then left. The second girl weirdly enough from the beginning came with a massive bitch shield up even though over text prior to us meeting was chasing. Things stayed pretty platonic with her.

3) These days, I approach at least 5-7 a night 7+‘s but also end up talking to 5s that say hello to me first lol

 

[topcat]

Its interesting how it works with 5s but not 7s and up. It may be a vibe problem

To the 5’s it’s their lucky night. The 7’s have heard it before, they need stimulating

 

[moom]

Momo, I can relate to what you're describing. I suspect it's a fairly common situation for a lot of users of this site. It essentially revolves around this pattern:

• When you are young/inexperienced, all women are a mystery to you
• As you learn game (if you're a student type) or experience women (as a natural), you develop memory patterns over time of what types of women you have success with, and what types reject you/make you feel like shit (harsh rejections, etc)
• After a while, you develop deeply ingrained biases that are very often not true. This could be like "I am good with fat chicks but not hot chicks" or (a common problem for some naturals I've met) "I am good with black/white/asian chicks but not black/white/asian chicks" (This always comes from whatever type of girls the natural was around in the beginning.

For example, do you ever wonder, "Why are 5's so horny and always interested in casual sex -- they will come over to my place on the first date and happily suck my dick"? Instead, think "ALL WOMEN are so horny and always interested in casual sex -- they will come over to my place on the first date and happily suck my dick". In the same way you can just replace every thought about "5's" with "All WOMEN"

This is an interesting take and may be whats happened to me. I think thinking that uglier women are very easy has made my vibe with beautiful women less seductive (actively taking steps to counteract this though by approaching 7+ girls to me).

Any tips on reprogramming yourself?

 

[moom]

i am just going to give you some bullet points:

- again you are not really asking anything, journal and post interactions.
- it seems you don't have approach anxiety and you can open BUT you are not reaching HOOK POINT, work on reaching hook point consistently, if not you are just an approach opening machine like an rsdtard.
- Is ok to bang the troll to gain momentum as long as you don't get her prego and keep sleeping with her making it a habit, is good at times to flip dynamics so you can feel like the hot women feel, you are the hot women the troll is you...
-are those 70 lays from nighgame, i guarantee you most of them are NOT FROM NIGHT GAME but online, do not lie to yourself on your results...
- bold and direct with hotter women is going to make things wayyyy harder..
-make sure you are structuring your night in the right way and not spending tooo much time with going nowhere sets, on the going nowhere sets, get the number and change venues...

The main important thing to pull night game is logistics not horniness per se, but horniness gives you the killer attitude that help close deals... But horniness sometimes can be an excuse at your age, cause you had no problem banging the troll...

1) The problem is, I just don’t know what to ask- I’ve experimented with all kinds of approaches (direct, indirect, situational, high energy, low energy, speaker centered, “are you single”, etc) in the past 4 weeks (about 50 approaches) and nothing has worked consistently to hook. Obviously night game works, I may just need an in-person coach to disect what I do. Or perhaps I start making in-field recordings and have some people here disect it lol

2) One thing I’ve been doing is forcing myself to stay in set much longer. Tbh I do hook sometimes, but then think I fuck it up somewhere mid-game. i’ve read the girlschase series on hooking and have tried a few things there, any tips from you on hooking?

3) Kinda what I’m doing right now lol, met another 5 last night for like 2 minutes and invited her straight to my house for a drink this evening and she seems interested. Want to keep momentum up

4) Out of those 70+ lays, true night game lays (as in not from social circle going out) its probably sitting right at 10-12. Same night lays from night game? like 5. Of those 5, how many approached me vs I approached them? like 3 lol, so I only have gotten 2 night game lays from me approaching them and closing the deal. The other 5-7 from the 12 came from girls I approached / approached me and i closed the deal on another night via date. The other 60ish lays have come from social circle (living in hostels and mutual friends), day game (i did fairly well with this in 2016 although havent day gamed since then), and online game (like 15 lays here)

5) Whats a better way with hotter women in your opinion?

6) Any tips on better structuring? And how to recognize a set thats going no where earlier on?

7) I actually had trouble banging the last two trolls i went on dates with lol. The troll that i banged 2 nights ago actually booty called me after we had spoken for 5 minutes a week before at a club. It was a first time weird situation and I went to hers after fumbling a date with a troll an hour prior due to lack of horniness. When I got to the booty calls house, she still gave me some resistance and I just pushed through and made out with her and closed it. So yeah i guess i fucked this one, but to be completely honest my dick didnt even get hard until we finally started making out. I should perhaps look into a testosterone problem even though im only 28 or perhaps i need more exercise, been drinking too much

 

[moom]

To the 5’s it’s their lucky night. The 7’s have heard it before, they need stimulating

By stimulating, do you mean direct boldness? Or deep conversation?

I have no problems usually opening bold af, and I have no problems deep diving (im a podcast host). I have no problems escalating touch (although I feel like im constantly looking for positive reactions to move forward but usually just get neutral).

Biggest sticking point right now: Consistently hooking hot girls that I’d like to escalate with.

 

[moom]

To all that answered, thank you for your answers. This wasn’t meant to come off defeatist- i’m actually doing a number of things wrong. After some reading, I’ve realized:

1) My teasing is more on the offensive side, turning off some girls

2) The direct interest I’ve been showing isn’t calibrated and I’m showing too much interest to “yellow” girls or even green girls that may have been interested at first but I clearly painted myself as the pursuer.

3) My openings slot me as the chaser so I continue to stay in the frame I made for myself lol instead of trying to flip it. Think Im ryan gosling from crazy stupid love or something

4) I’m not focusing on compliance much at all I realized. I need to start seeding compliance from the get-go. I’ve been focusing so much more on Similarity and arousal but so much less on compliance. Need to keep SAC in mind and focus on calibration.

Going to run my seductions tonight like this:
1) Approach in a calibrated manner and focus on getting some early compliance asap.
2) As I get compliance and some early initial humor in, I gauge her interest. This is my biggest sticking point currently, whats the most consistent way I can have a yellow or green girl hook in ASAP. If I don’t see the girl hook, I can sometimes force myself to stay in set but things get increasingly awkward and look less and less effortless.
3) If I DO hook- and I’ll gage this with if she accepted my compliance demands and if she has asked me even one question about myself, then I’ll isolate her and continue the conversation.
4) From here, I’ll focus on a mix of similarity and arousal while increasing compliance over time. Deep dive + relate, reward laughter with touch through an escalation ladder, use more chase frames and as compliance increases add in sexual frames. My question here would be what are some other forms of bigger compliance I can get from a girl while at a bar?
5) When I’m able to get away with hip grabs, sexual and chase frames have been set, and I can sense a hornier vibe from her, I’ll pull her out of the venue for food perhaps. If shes really horny, ill invite her straight home.

So thats my process for now. Some places I’ve been fucking up which are clearer now:
1) Trying to rush things. Impatience is my biggest weakness.
2) Focus on getting compliance in the beginning of the interaction and keeping it light and teasy instead of trying to set sexual frames, showing too much interest, or being too direct, right after opening.
3) Follow the process instead of skipping steps most of the time lol

My old focus: Be as direct as possible and brute force my way to interest
My new focus: After opener, calibrate and get compliance asap and focus on flipping the dynamic asap

Will report back with results!

 

[ElderPrice]

1) I think the issue is a vibe problem- if I go in indirect, the girl scoffs and really just moves on. If I go in direct, the girl pays attention, but just throws resistance and indifference the entire time.

2) Well actually had very little success with girls in night game from me approaching. Almost all with girls that approached me or gave me a blatant signal (like direct eye contact for like 1 minute or walking past by me sliding their hands right across mine). Plenty of day game approach success, plenty of social circle game success, but not with night game.

In terms of online game, the last two girls I went out with from Bumble I haven’t been able to pull either. First girl was really into me but I didnt find her attractive in person and was just going through the motions (she looked much different than her two pictures lol). So I’m sure she felt that, and didnt get horny for me. Came all the way to my house but then left. The second girl weirdly enough from the beginning came with a massive bitch shield up even though over text prior to us meeting was chasing. Things stayed pretty platonic with her.

3) These days, I approach at least 5-7 a night 7+‘s but also end up talking to 5s that say hello to me first lol

See, this is useful information, and you should have provided this clarification in your original post.

All in all, my suggestion would be to start with Point #3: 5-7 a night is weak. Stop worrying about all the other shit until you're approaching 20 of the women you want (7+'s) per night - and that really should NOT BE COUNTING 5-10 warm up sets.

Just be your same, cool, confident self, and now just approach more women.

 

[moom]

See, this is useful information, and you should have provided this clarification in your original post.

All in all, my suggestion would be to start with Point #3: 5-7 a night is weak. Stop worrying about all the other shit until you're approaching 20 of the women you want (7+'s) per night - and that really should NOT BE COUNTING 5-10 warm up sets.

Just be your same, cool, confident self, and now just approach more women.

Thats the plan, I'm on it. I tend to stay in sets fairly long that most of the time don't lead anywhere, so I need to focus on cutting ties soon too so I can get more reps in. Compliance stacking early in the interaction is helping solve this problem.

Will report back on any improvements in another months time