How to jive with a girl who doesn't give you much to work with/dive into?

Skjöldr

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Often when i approach a girl and asks her what she studies and she says "economics" or some other dry thing and i ask what she likes to do for fun and she says "I don't know, i like to hang out with friends and watch netflix", how do you deep dive a girl with boring hobbies and a boring field of work/study? Should i ask her what movies she likes to watch? It's just hard to deal with a girl who isn't passionate about anything and her free time consists solely of consuming digital media.

When a girl tells me she's a nurse or a hairdresser i can dive into how she likes to work with people and talk with people and how interacting with new people gives a deeper insight into ourselves etc., golden stuff, or if she says she likes to paint or read books we can dive into that, what themes she likes and why (I like heroes journey themed books because i'm into self-improvement and was fat as a kid for an example). Yesterday i approached a girl and she said she just likes to party and she was pretty funky and energetic looking, how to vibe with her? Ask her about her craziest party experiences, what her favourite drink is, her favourite music is? I didn't really know what to say in the moment, i felt i didn't have much to work with.

It's just hard dealing with for an example dull girl who just like scrolling on social media and watching mainstream series on netflix. How do you deal with them?
 

Glow

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simple answer is - elicit values.
So why did you choose economics?
Then mirror and label her answers - check tactics where i outlined these things. This is the smooth, under the radar way to open her up by making her think in behind her choices to her motivations.

Secondly you could focus on and use her response w facial and energy eg say "economics" while you widen your eyes in disbelieft and move back to pump drama like girls do it OMG!! type. Just like you would say shut up to a good friend telling you something amazing they just obtained. This really draw girls out.

Thirdly learn to spit game - eg shift the vibe around simple questions to spice things up. Use pressure on pressure of eg. to pump the energy a lil. meaning you might be fun loving, then more challenging w a playfuld smirk, then commanding. Fun loving is pressure off. Challenging is pressure on etc. This provides more stimulating punch in the energy along with a smooth connective joyful vibe.
 
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Skjöldr

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simple answer is - elicit values.

So why did you choose economics? Then mirror and label her answers - check tactics where i outlined these things. This is the smooth, under the radar way to open her up by making her think in behind her choices to her motivations.

Also use her response w facial and energy eg say "economics" while you widen your eyes in disbelieft and move back to pump drama. Just like you would say shut up to a good friend telling you something amazing they just obtained. This really draws girls out.

Secondly learn to spit game - eg shift the vibe around simple questions to spice things up. Use pressure on pressure of eg. to pump the energy a lil. meaning you might be fun loving, then more challenging w a playfuld smirk, then commanding. Fun loving is pressure off. Challenging is pressure on etc. This provides more stimulating punch in the energy.
Yeah i definitely am good at releasing pressure with c/f ball-busting roleplaying and all, i will do more challenges to put pressure on. Breathe in and breathe out.

Do you have a good example of challenging?

Also is this the tactics you mean?
 

Skjöldr

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In a seducers view, it becomes the art of drawing out her world, to engage her in talking about her. To draw her out. Doing so is a subtle but powerful way to grab attention by activating her, by showing interest for her. And you are leading what she brings out. At the same time she feels interest for her world, and if done well, it will take her to interesting things she has not connected with in a while. Perhaps never really thought about. Another dimension is that she becomes reactive to you. And the experience is very nice for her. So many good things.
Interesting stuff @Glow. I think many girls have this shield up. They are used to people asking her the same questions (What do you do? What are your hobbies? Where are you from? Do you like it? Why did you move here? etc) but she's used to giving some superficial answers to it, so simply asking those doesn't stimulate her. But by really showing her that you are listening to her words and trying to deep dive into her world and soul, that you actually care about her responses, she will show the real side of herself that she rarely shows to people/strangers. Maybe she doesn't fully know her real side, but hand in hand you and her walk into her mind to explore her world.
 

ljrozz69

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This thread made me realize how powerful this tech is and how I overlooked it because I quite didn't understand it. When I first tried to deep dive/elicit values I'd always ask "rapport questions" like the ones Phoenix asks. What it happened is that it gave me ok interaction with young girls/introvert girls (I think it is simply due to how much they are used to interact with ppl) but otherwise it was kind of boring and so I dismissed them as seduction tools.
But when, after reading OP, I asked myself how I changed girls' initial skeptical perception of me through verbal means, I realized that I indeed was doing elicitation without knowing it! For me it was just leading the conversation somewhere pleasant for the both of us and vibe together (I didn't ask any questions actually in any of those interactions)
So I had a flawed understanding of this tech and how to apply it. I am going to try to learn how to use it well now =)
 

Skjöldr

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This thread made me realize how powerful this tech is and how I overlooked it because I quite didn't understand it. When I first tried to deep dive/elicit values I'd always ask "rapport questions" like the ones Phoenix asks. What it happened is that it gave me ok interaction with young girls/introvert girls (I think it is simply due to how much they are used to interact with ppl) but otherwise it was kind of boring and so I dismissed them as seduction tools.
But when, after reading OP, I asked myself how I changed girls' initial skeptical perception of me through verbal means, I realized that I indeed was doing elicitation without knowing it! For me it was just leading the conversation somewhere pleasant for the both of us and vibe together (I didn't ask any questions actually in any of those interactions)
So I had a flawed understanding of this tech and how to apply it. I am going to try to learn how to use it well now =)
Can you explain how you do elicitation with examples?
 

Tony D

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Often when i approach a girl and asks her what she studies and she says "economics" or some other dry thing and i ask what she likes to do for fun and she says "I don't know, i like to hang out with friends and watch netflix", how do you deep dive a girl with boring hobbies and a boring field of work/study? Should i ask her what movies she likes to watch? It's just hard to deal with a girl who isn't passionate about anything and her free time consists solely of consuming digital media.

When a girl tells me she's a nurse or a hairdresser i can dive into how she likes to work with people and talk with people and how interacting with new people gives a deeper insight into ourselves etc., golden stuff, or if she says she likes to paint or read books we can dive into that, what themes she likes and why (I like heroes journey themed books because i'm into self-improvement and was fat as a kid for an example). Yesterday i approached a girl and she said she just likes to party and she was pretty funky and energetic looking, how to vibe with her? Ask her about her craziest party experiences, what her favourite drink is, her favourite music is? I didn't really know what to say in the moment, i felt i didn't have much to work with.

It's just hard dealing with for an example dull girl who just like scrolling on social media and watching mainstream series on netflix. How do you deal with them?
Sounds like you're trying to take value rather than give it. When I do conversation classes in my practice dates, I have guys do 80 percent of the talking. Rather than asking questions, tell stories, cold read, explain your value system, tease her. Asking questions should be a small part of the conversation. It's up to you to seduce her, not the other way around.
 

Skjöldr

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Sounds like you're trying to take value rather than give it. When I do conversation classes in my practice dates, I have guys do 80 percent of the talking. Rather than asking questions, tell stories, cold read, explain your value system, tease her. Asking questions should be a small part of the conversation. It's up to you to seduce her, not the other way around.
Good point. How would you cold read a plain chick? And are you not supposed to get her to invest?
 

West_Indian_Archie

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The technical solutions
  1. Cold Read- Make a cold read about her and economics -
    1. "Wait, you don't look like an economist..." (skeptical look, leads to her trying to qualify herself)
    2. "You know what they say about economists" (sly grin, let's her know that you're flirting)
    3. " I KNEW IT!!!!,you totally look like an economist" (leads to "what makes me look like an economist" - start riffing on what she's wearing/carrying etc)
  2. Generally - 90/10 Rule - 90% of the first 5-15 minutes is going to be you providing the material - so If she says something that you can't work with, you have either a stack of material or you've gotten good at improvisation (and you let go of the need to logically continue conversational threads)
  3. Improvisation - "Perfect, Nick Fury just called me, I'm putting together a team of....."
All this stuff should be in your tool box

Deeper Solutions/Change your Mind on what needs to happen

I agree with @Tony D here. This is value taking.

Any sort of direct question opener to deep dive is a value taking, and the girl has no emotional reason to want to tell you her hopes and fears when she meets you for the first time in those first minutes. In the classic MM model, you're skipping over attraction and going straight into comfort/rapport/trust, without building up any of the subjective value she has in YOU.

So a lot of folks would just do a "personal follow up"

Deeper Open Ended Follow Up Question - Ask her about herself in relation to economics - "Cool, why'd you pick that"

Keep in mind, this is a big ask. So this can work right off the bat, but the verbal aspect is at best 10% of this.
The 90% is in what she draws on to understand the communication
  • Facial Expressions, Body Language
  • Speed, Pace, Rhythm, Tone
  • Social Situation

What would make a girl explain herself to you, in a deep way, off rip?

How I would ask a deeper question

  1. Make eye contact
  2. Change my facial expression to that of "wonder/amazement"
  3. Pause PAUSE/keeping eye contact
  4. "Hmm" - a verbal enforcement to my wonder and amazement
  5. "Out of all the things in the world, what makes you EXCITED about economics?"
  6. AND WAIT.
So I'm communicating to her that i'm 1) surprised and 2) DEEPLY INTERESTED in something that she's passionate about. (and ambiguously/in the background, deeply interested in HER)

You can basically do this with anyone you meet, but the key is that they see your intent via your body language, hear it in your voice, see it on your face, and deal with the social pressure of giving you an answer. You don't want them to feel like they're just making conversation. You want them to feel like your in awe, fellow traveler, giving them the platform to shine...etc. Having this one conversation with you, should be the best part of her day, and something she thinks about later on. (which is what will make the number close stronger, if you can't instadate/take her home)

A deep question on the walkup/approach is still a big ask in my view, it's value taking, but people will give you value if you ask for it correctly, and then a few things happen

First, they get to talk about something their passionate about - and that's dopamine that you're causing to happen. You give them value by first taking it.

Second, they're going to backwards rationalize that you must be a person of value. Because they wouldn't just tell some rando their hopes and dreams.

Third, you've taken the frame. Whenever someone tries to appease you, please you, prove themselves to you - even if they enjoy themselves - you are the one in power.

This leads to a bigger inner game issue

The technical solutions are what most guys gravitate towards, and those will get you laid.
And the more you do them, the more you'll do them with conviction, and "dominance" and "authority".
I think technical solutions work with every caliber of girl.
Dimes and adjustable 6's all get sold by everyone else on the planet, you can sell her too.
Lotta guys have weird criteria for 10s, despite the fact she listens to the same bs that everyone else does, and does the same predictable stuff.

I digress.

Using tech all the time, How will you feel about yourself? About your ability to connect?
Will tech become a crutch? (I've had plenty of crutches, my main two were music and dancing)

Guys that think they need material/technique NEED material and technique.
Improvisation is really just another technique, because the guy feels the need to fill the space.

If he doesn't keep the chick's mind and emotions constantly in flux - he feels that the chick will just drop him/drop the interaction.
Bright Shiny Object!

I'm not gonna speak on daily mantras and meditation - but to get to the next level, I believe that a guy has to think more deeply about the interaction.

I mentioned the "leave a gap" for her to respond, for her to feel the social pressure to respond to a question.
And most guys have issues just looking at the girl and waiting for her to respond. It's a test of his will.

That's because they really do value the girl/the sex more than themselves. He's given her the frame. When he doesn't give the interaction room to breathe, he doesn't develop any tension.

Tension, sexual, social, whatever - is what you can add to your game.

Tension leads to more "taking", more staring, more purposeful silence, more facial expressions that provoke her to respond, more expecting her to do certain things, and withdrawing attention when she doesn't, or checking her poor behavior.

You want to get her blood up, you want to bring her into a vortex of emotions - and that might mean breaking social rules, getting into her personal space, making her feel uncomfortable but responding.

In my experience, rethinking how these college campus walkups are actually working, will give you a much better result - for you and her.

WIA
 

Skjöldr

Modern Human
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Joined
Nov 18, 2019
Messages
963
The technical solutions
  1. Cold Read- Make a cold read about her and economics -
    1. "Wait, you don't look like an economist..." (skeptical look, leads to her trying to qualify herself)
    2. "You know what they say about economists" (sly grin, let's her know that you're flirting)
    3. " I KNEW IT!!!!,you totally look like an economist" (leads to "what makes me look like an economist" - start riffing on what she's wearing/carrying etc)
  2. Generally - 90/10 Rule - 90% of the first 5-15 minutes is going to be you providing the material - so If she says something that you can't work with, you have either a stack of material or you've gotten good at improvisation (and you let go of the need to logically continue conversational threads)
  3. Improvisation - "Perfect, Nick Fury just called me, I'm putting together a team of....."
Yes sir i do all this in the approach to hook point. I ask very few questions and use a cocky funny style in a mix of cold reading, roleplaying, assumptions, ballbusting, chase framing etc., while trying not to be too goofy about it and maintaining a masculine frame. In flow state i'm like a free style rapper. But i sometimes burn out if she seems unfazed and isn't hooking and i switch over to the rapport stuff. I noticed when women don't hook they often times are taken so i will say "so who's the special guy" or "...on your way home to cook for husband?" or something to gather intel.

The rest of your post is good stuff, thank you.
 

West_Indian_Archie

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Messages
375
Yes sir i do all this in the approach to hook point. I ask very few questions and use a cocky funny style in a mix of cold reading, roleplaying, assumptions, ballbusting, chase framing etc., while trying not to be too goofy about it and maintaining a masculine frame. But i sometimes burn out if she seems unfazed and isn't hooking and i switch over to the rapport stuff. I noticed when women don't hook they often times are taken so i will say "so who's the special guy" or "...on your way home to cook for husband?" or something to gather intel.

The rest of your post is good stuff, thank you.

I'm starting to think there are 3 hook points

Social one - likes the discussion
Sexual/Personal - She wants to Bang You in particular/She wants to be around you
Soul Mate/Sex Slave - She's obsessed, you could be the one.

Strong rapport stuff, when she thinks you have a deep understanding of her - be it generally (soul mate) or sexually (sex slave/submissive/pleaser) - can lead to outcomes that are great at first but maybe too much responsibility.

Honestly, I've just started to realize that any girl you bring in to your life, you have to lead her in damn near every aspect of HER life.
You're the source, and she's always looking to you. And even when she's not, when she's doing her dirt, when she's hiding the bad stuff about her - even when she's selfish - it's often in reference to you.

I dunno, for me the Game keeps deepening.

WIA
 
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