A perfect 10 gave me strong compliance but still said no- need insight?

Hi guys,

I have been reading articles on gc and read the bits on commpliance and also some field reports on the forums and it seemed like compliance was the strongest indicator of attraction.

I recently appraoched a girl, and had 2 major compliances that I got from her, this gave me the impression this would be an easy one, but once I went for the number close she turned it down to my surprise.

Here is the interaction:

Me: Hey I just saw you passing by and I think you have a really good sense of style.
She: Oh, thanks.
She: She is about to swipe her subway card to exit and then says Let’s talk after the exit booth.
Me: I can’t, my subway card has been locked. I need to get it resolved at customer service, that will take time. Are you getting late? Can we talk for 2 minutes?
She: Yeah, I was getting late, but okay sure. (I was amazed — a stunner like her, a perfect 10, would stop from the exit toll gate midway to talk to me. Girls at the subway are always in a rush and most of my approaches fail at the exit gate; only ones on the platform work.)

<big compliance>

Me: So what do you do?
She: I work in biotech as a researcher.
Me: Interesting, what made you get into that?
She: I was always interested in that since school.
Me: Okay. So what do you do on the weekends?
She: I don’t really get time, I am always busy with work.
Me: Okay, can we move to the side? There are a lot of people coming here, I don’t want to get in their way.

(I move quickly all the way to the subway wall walking straight ahead without looking at her.)

She: Looks around a bit and follows me to the wall.
<big compliance again — I moved all the way to the wall and she followed me>

Me: I spin around as I reach near the wall where the traffic is lesser to face her. So yeah, what do you do on weekends?
She: I told you, I don’t get time. I’m swamped with work most of the time.
Me: Okay, are you from this city?
She: Yes, I am from here.
Me: Okay, I am from XXX place — a hilly town. (A well-known vacation spot in my country.)
She: Oh really?
Me: Yes. Have you ever been there?
She: No, I would like to sometime.
Me: You should go there sometime. Get some time off or you’ll be stuck in your work routine forever — go to work, back home, then repeat every day, and life will just pass you by.
She: Yeah, that’s what’s been happening with me.
Me: The place is really good. Along the way over there, you see an aqua-blue sparkling river, and when you wake up you see snowcapped mountains — it’s great.

(She really started smiling here — descriptive language seems to have a strong impact.)

She: So why did you move to the city?
Me: My parents moved for the city life and work opportunities.
Me: So what else gets you interested?
She: I like to read.
Me: About what?
She: I also have a background in neuroscience, so things on that topic.
Me: Oh really? I like neuroscience, but I’m more interested in psychology.
She: Oh, okay.
Me: Do you know about Carl Jung?
She: Yeahh. (Nods her head)
Me: I’m fascinated by that guy. He has such depth about life. (I say this with enthusiasm.)
She: Starts smiling again.
Me: So neuroscience — I’ve read a few books on that topic. Do you know about Jaak Panksepp, something like that?
She: Ummmm, no. I think not.
Me: So what books have you read on that?
She: There is one by a neuroscientist called Daniel Kahneman.
Me: Oh yeah, Daniel Kahneman. I know that guy. I read Thinking, Fast and Slow, but I couldn’t understand it at the time — now I do understand a lot of his ideas.
She: Yeah.
Me: So anyway, I’m getting late. If I could take your number, I would love to get to know you more.
She: I just can’t give away my number like this. It’s nothing personal, I hope you understand. It’s great that you came up and talked to me.
Me: Okay, what about Insta?
She: No, I can’t, sorry.
Me: Okay, anyway, it was nice talking to you. Have a good day.
She: Okay, bye.

My conv wan't the most charming or flirtateous but it was pleasant and decent enought that i have gotten a no close with this vibe before
shouldn't her 2 major compliances mean she was highly attracted, why did she turn down the number close?

Her I can't give away my number like this seemed like this was anti-slut defence becuse from it looked to me she was interested in me, but perhaps needed a much longer interaction, more connection to feel it socially acceptable in her mind to give her number away to a stranger.

Would love to know the thoughts of more experienced guys here?

you’re not flirting with her G.

compliance is one part but you also need to be teasing, qualifying and escalating.

absolute basics here are approaching with a flirtatious vibe, it should be as if you guys are playing a game in terms of the interaction.

qualifying, if she likes you, she needs to know why you like her. make her jump through hoops in terms of letting her know what you like about her and also letting her know what you don’t.

you have to make the interaction man to woman, this reads like a conversation that could be had between any two human beings, and you need to be moving this interaction towards the goal of facilitating another meet.

touch her innocuously when you stop her, tap her arm and whatnot SMOOTHLY.

the girl is thinking that however this encounter went is going to be replicated over the course of the date. If she’s not laughing, being moved, and being attracted by you she’s not gonna want to waste the time to come out.

S.S Can said:

you’re not flirting with her G.

compliance is one part but you also need to be teasing, qualifying and escalating.

absolute basics here are approaching with a flirtatious vibe, it should be as if you guys are playing a game in terms of the interaction.

qualifying, if she likes you, she needs to know why you like her. make her jump through hoops in terms of letting her know what you like about her and also letting her know what you don’t.

you have to make the interaction man to woman, this reads like a conversation that could be had between any two human beings, and you need to be moving this interaction towards the goal of facilitating another meet.

touch her innocuously when you stop her, tap her arm and whatnot SMOOTHLY.

the girl is thinking that however this encounter went is going to be replicated over the course of the date. If she’s not laughing, being moved, and being attracted by you she’s not gonna want to waste the time to come out.

Click to expand...

She seemed interested in me during the interaction, soher I can't give my number away like this seemed liem anti-slut defence and maybe that she need3d a longer interaction, more com fort and connection.

So you thinking adding more fliration, teases and qualification makes the duration of the interaction irrelavant?

@Arnav,

The girl seemed to like you initially! Interaction just needs a bit of work.

Arnav said:

Hi guys,

I have been reading articles on gc and read the bits on commpliance and also some field reports on the forums and it seemed like compliance was the strongest indicator of attraction.

I recently appraoched a girl, and had 2 major compliances that I got from her, this gave me the impression this would be an easy one, but once I went for the number close she turned it down to my surprise.

Click to expand...

Compliance is good.

But you only had a few bits of it here, and not really that super major. Good initial compliance, but just that: "initial."

Like @S.S Can notes, there's no flirtation/arousal-building here. You also drop the ball on building similarity (connection).

Quick breakdown:

Arnav said:

Here is the interaction:

Me: Hey I just saw you passing by and I think you have a really good sense of style.
She: Oh, thanks.
She: She is about to swipe her subway card to exit and then says Let’s talk after the exit booth.

Click to expand...

Pretty cool.

HOWEVER: she is immediately taking the lead here, which generally girls who are attracted to you will not do (they wait for you to lead).

My guess is based on this girl's description of herself / her life, she is very logical and doesn't meet many people, so she wanted to maximize her chance here of not missing out on a potential good connection.

(Had you connected with her, you still could've laid her, had you done things right... these logical busy girls tend to be pretty straightforward lays. Often they are pretty lonely and starved for connection. Most of the men around them are nerds who don't make moves and they don't have much in the way of social lives. Most of the guys who approach them make typical retarded approaches that don't go anywhere, too.)

Arnav said:

Me: I can’t, my subway card has been locked. I need to get it resolved at customer service, that will take time. Are you getting late? Can we talk for 2 minutes?
She: Yeah, I was getting late, but okay sure. (I was amazed — a stunner like her, a perfect 10, would stop from the exit toll gate midway to talk to me. Girls at the subway are always in a rush and most of my approaches fail at the exit gate; only ones on the platform work.)

<big compliance>

Click to expand...

Again -- likely due to the nature of her lifestyle + personality. Also, she was the one leading you to somewhere to talk. Good investment, though not necessarily "compliance."

Arnav said:

Me: So what do you do?
She: I work in biotech as a researcher.
Me: Interesting, what made you get into that?
She: I was always interested in that since school.

Click to expand...

Need to tease/flirt. Good habit to get into: you must make one tease within the first 30 seconds of talking to her.

e.g.:


See how doing it like this, by humorously assuming things about what she does, we can actually get her revealing MORE about what she does while enjoying the process more at the same time?

Arnav said:

Me: Okay. So what do you do on the weekends?
She: I don’t really get time, I am always busy with work.
Me: Okay, can we move to the side? There are a lot of people coming here, I don’t want to get in their way.

(I move quickly all the way to the subway wall walking straight ahead without looking at her.)

She: Looks around a bit and follows me to the wall.
<big compliance again — I moved all the way to the wall and she followed me>

Me: I spin around as I reach near the wall where the traffic is lesser to face her. So yeah, what do you do on weekends?
She: I told you, I don’t get time. I’m swamped with work most of the time.
Me: Okay, are you from this city?

Click to expand...

You're jumping topics here. There's no relation between the conversation topics.

What do you do → What do you do on weekends? → Are you from here?

At this point it just feels like an interview. You need to DIG INTO the topics you bring up.

e.g.,


(lol I just spent 5 minutes writing a made-up dialogue about being a mad scientist)

Anyway, see how we just hook into ONE topic here, about how she never gets any free time because she is always in the lab, and use humor to find out what the deal is?

Because one thing you know: if she has zero free time, she is ACHING for an escape.

Another thing you know: if you can figure out where in her busy schedule she actually DOES have time, and you can frame yourself as the sole escape from her shackles, she will run to you as her vacation from her busy life.

Arnav said:

She: Yes, I am from here.
Me: Okay, I am from XXX place — a hilly town. (A well-known vacation spot in my country.)
She: Oh really?
Me: Yes. Have you ever been there?
She: No, I would like to sometime.
Me: You should go there sometime. Get some time off or you’ll be stuck in your work routine forever — go to work, back home, then repeat every day, and life will just pass you by.
She: Yeah, that’s what’s been happening with me.
Me: The place is really good. Along the way over there, you see an aqua-blue sparkling river, and when you wake up you see snowcapped mountains — it’s great.

(She really started smiling here — descriptive language seems to have a strong impact.)

Click to expand...

The evocative language is nice. You get some points for being from a known vacation spot and painting her a picture of it. Breaks her out of the mental pattern of drudgery she is in a bit.

However, you had to do a lot of jumping to get here, and it does not really feel connected to the rest of the conversation.

Arnav said:

She: So why did you move to the city?
Me: My parents moved for the city life and work opportunities.
Me: So what else gets you interested?

Click to expand...

She was probably a bit interested after the vacation hometown description.

However, the answer you gave was boring, and then you immediately switched to another unrelated topic.

Instead:

Arnav said:

She: I like to read.
Me: About what?
She: I also have a background in neuroscience, so things on that topic.
Me: Oh really? I like neuroscience, but I’m more interested in psychology.
She: Oh, okay.

Click to expand...

She doesn't care about your interests at this point.

Responding to "I like X" with "Oh, X is okay but I prefer Y" just spins up dissimilarity, damaging connection/trust and pushing her further away.

Better:


See how much less dry the conversation can be when you focus on making it FUN?

Teasing the girl first, then relating to her on it, then sharing some insight, etc.

Arnav said:

Me: Do you know about Carl Jung?
She: Yeahh. (Nods her head)
Me: I’m fascinated by that guy. He has such depth about life. (I say this with enthusiasm.)
She: Starts smiling again.

Click to expand...

It is sad to say, but at this point -- she doesn't care about your interests.

Maybe never will. I've had girlfriends of years who never really cared what I was reading (despite being readers themselves).

Especially if she is a logical chick. Logical chicks only really care about their own interests. They don't tend to be as people-focused as more emotional/empathic chicks do.

Anyway -- talking to girls about what you like in movies, books, music, etc., is rarely a worthwhile topic, unless it usefully pushes the interaction forward one way or another.

Arnav said:

Me: So neuroscience — I’ve read a few books on that topic. Do you know about Jaak Panksepp, something like that?
She: Ummmm, no. I think not.
Me: So what books have you read on that?

Click to expand...

This is completely impersonal. You are not finding anything about her at all. You are not teasing her about her. You are not touching her. You are not getting her to comply/invest.

Instead, you are feeling around for superficial commonalities.

You will completely lose girls with this kind of conversation.

Whatever intrigue she had earlier with that "Ooh, a man! Let me talk to him!" reaction, plus some interest from your origin in the vacation spot, is being lost with the dry, impersonal conversation here.

Arnav said:

She: There is one by a neuroscientist called Daniel Kahneman.
Me: Oh yeah, Daniel Kahneman. I know that guy. I read Thinking, Fast and Slow, but I couldn’t understand it at the time — now I do understand a lot of his ideas.
She: Yeah.

Click to expand...

More dry, impersonal, superficial convo.

This one is lost.

Arnav said:

Me: So anyway, I’m getting late. If I could take your number, I would love to get to know you more.

Click to expand...

What she hears: "This conversation is very dry but I would like to have more dry conversation with you in the future."

Arnav said:

She: I just can’t give away my number like this. It’s nothing personal, I hope you understand. It’s great that you came up and talked to me.

Click to expand...

Polite rejection. Nice encouragement to approach though!

Arnav said:

Me: Okay, what about Insta?

Click to expand...

Why??...

Arnav said:

My conv wan't the most charming or flirtateous but it was pleasant and decent enought that i have gotten a no close with this vibe before

Click to expand...

Dry, impersonal, superficial "jumping from superficial topic to superficial topic" conversations with no flirtation, arousal, and minimal compliance will only lead to solid numbers from girls who really, really like your look and vibe.

If you want to close girls who aren't totally sold on you from your look/vibe alone, you will need to learn GAME.

Arnav said:

shouldn't her 2 major compliances mean she was highly attracted, why did she turn down the number close?

Click to expand...

Again: good initial compliance, but you did not build other compliance beyond this, you did not build arousal at all, and what similarity you built was mostly superficial, then dashed by you going the other way and building dissimilarity with her by talking about preferring different genres then listing out authors she wasn't familiar with.

By the time you went for the close, the only thing you were offering her was dry conversation on superficial commonalities she wouldn't be able to connect on. That will get you turned down for the number close.

Also: when you number close, don't just ask for the number. Ask her out instead!


(IME, guys who go straight to asking for numbers usually know/sense they do not have enough to ask the girl on the date yet, so try to skip it by going for the number. If you're not ready to ask her on a date yet though, unless you can frame it precisely right, you are also not ready to ask her for her number!)

Arnav said:

Her I can't give away my number like this seemed like this was anti-slut defence becuse from it looked to me she was interested in me, but perhaps needed a much longer interaction, more connection to feel it socially acceptable in her mind to give her number away to a stranger.

Would love to know the thoughts of more experienced guys here?

Click to expand...

It has nothing to do with the length, and everything to do with the content, and the emotions it created -- or lack thereof.

Next interactions, focus on these:

• Tease her within the first 30 seconds. Then every now and again after that.
  
  
• Look for a chance to develop some callback humor. "Mad scientist" would've been perfect here.
  
  
• Dig into topics for EMOTIONS around them: why she does it, what she likes about, etc. Don't just topic jump.
  
  
• Learn to thread-cut to change topics fluidly (I discuss it in my book, in Spellbinding, and in TDA Module 2).
  
  
• Get compliance beyond moving girls (though moving girls is great!). Ask her for things amidst the conversation -- get her continuing to invest.
  
  
• If you encounter busy girls, dig into why they're so busy and when they have free time. No girl is really busy 24/7 -- she has to sleep and eat at least sometimes, and maybe squeeze a shower in here or there. There is probably also other time when she is not sleeping, eating, and showering, and also not at work. Find out what she's doing then. That is important for figuring out if you can instant date her or propose a date with her, so you can pace your proposal to match her schedule.
  
  
• Avoid telling girls about favorite books, music, movies, or other superficial commonalities unless it DEFINITELY helps the bond in some way. Avoid talking about your personal preferences to "build a connection" -- unless she perfectly connects it will do the OPPOSITE (i.e., make her feel dissimilar to you).

Hope this helps, man!

Chase

That was pretty exhaustive feedback, thank man! Love it!

Yeah it's just been a month or two cold appraoching, still getting the hang on conv. I go for vague number closes and skip the date ask, becuase I am still pretty nervous and have been trying to extinguish the fear with exposure.

About your point on dry impersonal conversation,

I shared my tastes in neurosicene authors and psychology becuase I thought that was her topic of interest, given her background and profession I reasoned that will get her interested build rapport and connection.

Becuase If someone talks to me about sports I get really interested in that

do I have the wrong idea of having personal conversation?

Arnav said:

Hi guys,

I have been reading articles on gc and read the bits on commpliance and also some field reports on the forums and it seemed like compliance was the strongest indicator of attraction.

I recently appraoched a girl, and had 2 major compliances that I got from her, this gave me the impression this would be an easy one, but once I went for the number close she turned it down to my surprise.

Here is the interaction:

Me: Hey I just saw you passing by and I think you have a really good sense of style.
She: Oh, thanks.
She: She is about to swipe her subway card to exit and then says Let’s talk after the exit booth.
Me: I can’t, my subway card has been locked. I need to get it resolved at customer service, that will take time. Are you getting late? Can we talk for 2 minutes?
She: Yeah, I was getting late, but okay sure. (I was amazed — a stunner like her, a perfect 10, would stop from the exit toll gate midway to talk to me. Girls at the subway are always in a rush and most of my approaches fail at the exit gate; only ones on the platform work.)

<big compliance>

Click to expand...

Here you went wrong. She acknowledged she sees you as a human being. Then you went on and assumed you could show interest in more already.
Wrong move. You shouldn't have shown interest in more than friendship yet. That could have come later. You made several big moves showing romantic/sexual interest to a girl that hadnt decided yet whether she liked you. The moment she likes you, things change. For this girl you would need 2-3 mddtings at least to get it going. But the moment you show too much interest in more she flakes and starts pushing you away more.

Compliance is not the same as treating you as a human being with value.

Your convo was fine except it going into the personal space a tad too quickly. The girl is smart, so you have to be too.

1) asking about her personal time
2) the numberclose
3) the insta follow up.. baddddd, should have turned it around. Maybe ask her whether she would be interested in talking to you more too? And then asked her what would be smart.

Chase said:

@Arnav,

The girl seemed to like you initially! Interaction just needs a bit of work.



Compliance is good.

But you only had a few bits of it here, and not really that super major. Good initial compliance, but just that: "initial."

Like @S.S Can notes, there's no flirtation/arousal-building here. You also drop the ball on building similarity (connection).

Quick breakdown:



Pretty cool.

HOWEVER: she is immediately taking the lead here, which generally girls who are attracted to you will not do (they wait for you to lead).

My guess is based on this girl's description of herself / her life, she is very logical and doesn't meet many people, so she wanted to maximize her chance here of not missing out on a potential good connection.

(Had you connected with her, you still could've laid her, had you done things right... these logical busy girls tend to be pretty straightforward lays. Often they are pretty lonely and starved for connection. Most of the men around them are nerds who don't make moves and they don't have much in the way of social lives. Most of the guys who approach them make typical retarded approaches that don't go anywhere, too.)



Again -- likely due to the nature of her lifestyle + personality. Also, she was the one leading you to somewhere to talk. Good investment, though not necessarily "compliance."



Need to tease/flirt. Good habit to get into: you must make one tease within the first 30 seconds of talking to her.

e.g.:

You: So what do you do?​

Her: I work in biotech as a researcher.​

You: Ah, a Dr. Frankenstein, I see. Cooking up monsters in the lab?​

Her: [laughs] No, I just work on creating new compounds.​

You: New compounds to... take over the world?​

Her: [laughs] No, mostly for creating new kinds of textiles, things like that.​

You: So in a few years all my shirts will be made of your compounds, is that what you're saying?​

Her: Something like that!​

See how doing it like this, by humorously assuming things about what she does, we can actually get her revealing MORE about what she does while enjoying the process more at the same time?



You're jumping topics here. There's no relation between the conversation topics.

What do you do → What do you do on weekends? → Are you from here?

At this point it just feels like an interview. You need to DIG INTO the topics you bring up.

e.g.,

You: What do you do on the weekends?​

Her: I don’t really get time, I am always busy with work.​

You: So mad scientist during the weekdays, mad scientist on the weekend too, huh?​

Her: Basically, yes.​

You: What do you do to unwind then, more science?​

Her: [laughs] I have like no time to unwind.​

You: Is this because you love what you do or because your boss is a slave driver?​

Her: [laughs] The second one.​

You: Let me see that ring you are wearing. It's interesting.​

Her: [holds hand to you]​

You: [take hand, inspect ring, turning hand this way and that]​

You: [still holding her hand] Anyway, that is so sad. I wish I could set you free. We need to start an underground railroad for mad scientists.​

Her: [laughs] We should.​

You: All right, no, seriously though. You must get SOME time off. Maybe an hour a week when they let you out of the lab? Where are you off to right now?​

Her: I'm actually going to the lab right now.​

You: Are you coming from one lab and heading to another?​

Her: [laughs] I'm coming from home.​

You: Were you doing science at home?​

Her: [laughs] I was not.​

You: All right, we have discovered some time when you are not in the lab.​

Her: You got me.​

You: [let her hand go] Is it crazy that I want to run off with you right now and take you to get an ice cream? I feel like we need to break you out of this "always in the lab, enslaved by my boss" deal.​

Her: I do need to get to work.​

You: What if you were 20 minutes late today? Do they put you in the science vat?​

Her: [laughs] I mean... I guess I could be 20 minutes late.​

You: Let's get ice creams then.​

Her: Okay.​

(lol I just spent 5 minutes writing a made-up dialogue about being a mad scientist)

Anyway, see how we just hook into ONE topic here, about how she never gets any free time because she is always in the lab, and use humor to find out what the deal is?

Because one thing you know: if she has zero free time, she is ACHING for an escape.

Another thing you know: if you can figure out where in her busy schedule she actually DOES have time, and you can frame yourself as the sole escape from her shackles, she will run to you as her vacation from her busy life.



The evocative language is nice. You get some points for being from a known vacation spot and painting her a picture of it. Breaks her out of the mental pattern of drudgery she is in a bit.

However, you had to do a lot of jumping to get here, and it does not really feel connected to the rest of the conversation.



She was probably a bit interested after the vacation hometown description.

However, the answer you gave was boring, and then you immediately switched to another unrelated topic.

Instead:

Her: So why did you move to the city?​

You: No choice. Parents dragged me along as a pup when I had no say. If it was up to me, we would've stayed in the hills... but c'est la vie. I've adapted. City life has its own kind of magic. How about you, are you happy here?​

Her: I blah blah blah​

She doesn't care about your interests at this point.

Responding to "I like X" with "Oh, X is okay but I prefer Y" just spins up dissimilarity, damaging connection/trust and pushing her further away.

Better:

Her: I like to read about neuroscience.​

You: Why am I not surprised?​

Her: [laughs] No, seriously!​

You: I'll bet you read the DRIEST papers on neuroscience you can find. "The presence of amyloid-beta proteins in the brains of Alzheimer's patients: a meta-analysis."​

Her: [laughs] Not like that!​

You: Uh-huh. I believe you.​

Her: I read books on neuroscience. Not papers. I just find it interesting.​

You: Truthfully, the brain is fascinating. I read a book by Jeff Hawkins, the creator of the Palm Pilot, on the nature of how the brain works, some years back. He had a very interesting theory about the brain serving as a prediction engine.​

Her: Oh totally! I can totally see that.​

You: You know what's interesting -- the brain in your head is interested in reading about itself, basically. Ever think about that?​

Her: OMG, you are right!​

See how much less dry the conversation can be when you focus on making it FUN?

Teasing the girl first, then relating to her on it, then sharing some insight, etc.



It is sad to say, but at this point -- she doesn't care about your interests.

Maybe never will. I've had girlfriends of years who never really cared what I was reading (despite being readers themselves).

Especially if she is a logical chick. Logical chicks only really care about their own interests. They don't tend to be as people-focused as more emotional/empathic chicks do.

Anyway -- talking to girls about what you like in movies, books, music, etc., is rarely a worthwhile topic, unless it usefully pushes the interaction forward one way or another.



This is completely impersonal. You are not finding anything about her at all. You are not teasing her about her. You are not touching her. You are not getting her to comply/invest.

Instead, you are feeling around for superficial commonalities.

You will completely lose girls with this kind of conversation.

Whatever intrigue she had earlier with that "Ooh, a man! Let me talk to him!" reaction, plus some interest from your origin in the vacation spot, is being lost with the dry, impersonal conversation here.



More dry, impersonal, superficial convo.

This one is lost.



What she hears: "This conversation is very dry but I would like to have more dry conversation with you in the future."



Polite rejection. Nice encouragement to approach though!





Why??...



Dry, impersonal, superficial "jumping from superficial topic to superficial topic" conversations with no flirtation, arousal, and minimal compliance will only lead to solid numbers from girls who really, really like your look and vibe.

If you want to close girls who aren't totally sold on you from your look/vibe alone, you will need to learn GAME.



Again: good initial compliance, but you did not build other compliance beyond this, you did not build arousal at all, and what similarity you built was mostly superficial, then dashed by you going the other way and building dissimilarity with her by talking about preferring different genres then listing out authors she wasn't familiar with.

By the time you went for the close, the only thing you were offering her was dry conversation on superficial commonalities she wouldn't be able to connect on. That will get you turned down for the number close.

Also: when you number close, don't just ask for the number. Ask her out instead!

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One of the most glaring things missing from the content available on the blog here has been an authoritative article on how to get a phone number from a girl. I put up "Natural Number Swapping" sometime back, and that covers the basics; Ricardus has covered phone numbers somewhat in a couple of...

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(IME, guys who go straight to asking for numbers usually know/sense they do not have enough to ask the girl on the date yet, so try to skip it by going for the number. If you're not ready to ask her on a date yet though, unless you can frame it precisely right, you are also not ready to ask her for her number!)



It has nothing to do with the length, and everything to do with the content, and the emotions it created -- or lack thereof.

Next interactions, focus on these:

• Tease her within the first 30 seconds. Then every now and again after that.
  
  
• Look for a chance to develop some callback humor. "Mad scientist" would've been perfect here.
  
  
• Dig into topics for EMOTIONS around them: why she does it, what she likes about, etc. Don't just topic jump.
  
  
• Learn to thread-cut to change topics fluidly (I discuss it in my book, in Spellbinding, and in TDA Module 2).
  
  
• Get compliance beyond moving girls (though moving girls is great!). Ask her for things amidst the conversation -- get her continuing to invest.
  
  
• If you encounter busy girls, dig into why they're so busy and when they have free time. No girl is really busy 24/7 -- she has to sleep and eat at least sometimes, and maybe squeeze a shower in here or there. There is probably also other time when she is not sleeping, eating, and showering, and also not at work. Find out what she's doing then. That is important for figuring out if you can instant date her or propose a date with her, so you can pace your proposal to match her schedule.
  
  
• Avoid telling girls about favorite books, music, movies, or other superficial commonalities unless it DEFINITELY helps the bond in some way. Avoid talking about your personal preferences to "build a connection" -- unless she perfectly connects it will do the OPPOSITE (i.e., make her feel dissimilar to you).

Hope this helps, man!

Chase

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That was pretty exhaustive feedback, thank man! Love it!

Yeah it's just been a month or two cold appraoching, still getting the hang on conv. I go for vague number closes and skip the date ask, becuase I am still pretty nervous and have been trying to extinguish the fear with exposure.

About your point on dry impersonal conversation,

I shared my tastes in neurosicene authors and psychology becuase I thought that was her topic of interest, given her background and profession I reasoned that will get her interested build rapport and connection.

Becuase If someone talks to me about sports I get really interested in that

do I have the wrong idea of having personal conversation?

mirror said:

Then you went on and assumed you could show interest in more already.
Wrong move. You shouldn't have shown interest in more than friendship yet. That could have come later. You made several big moves showing romantic/sexual interest to a girl that hadnt decided yet whether she liked you

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I think we are seeing this very differently.

I honestly don't see anything in OP's behavior that suggests him showing any romantic or sexual interest, at least from the girl's perspective. I don't see any big moves either - not even the close. From what I'm seeing, it all looks like polite conversation

mirror said:

Your convo was fine except it going into the personal space a tad too quickly

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It was barely personal. Knowing about her job and her reading hobby isn't personal. Knowing exactly what makes her "her", that's personal.

On the other hand, the conversation looks formal and all over the place.

mirror said:

Maybe ask her whether she would be interested in talking to you more too? And then asked her what would be smart

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The first part can work - if he actually shows intent and tell her he likes talking to her and is curious if she wants to meet again another time. Then suggest something specific like coffee, ice cream, walk in the park etc. Then grab her contact info

The second part (asked her what would be smart) lacks leadership. Most girls default state is to make things not happen with a guy. And in this case, she has framed herself already as someone who doesn't have time for anything else besides work. It's unlikely she wants to take charge of anything besides her regular schedule

Any guy is better off assuming a girl doesn't want to take the lead and wants him to take charge

Arnav said:

Becuase If someone talks to me about sports I get really interested in that

do I have the wrong idea of having personal conversation?

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What sports are you interested in?

But let's say you're into soccer (or football, as it were).

Let's say I said, "What are you into?"

And you said, "Man, I just love football! Messi is the greatest!"

And I said, "Yeah, that's cool, football is cool, but I'm more into women's water polo. Are you familiar with Maggie Steffens? Do you know she's a 3 time Olympic champion and holds the record for most goals scored by an individual player in women's water polo history? Anyway, if you're not into women's water polo you should definitely check it out."

I guess it's possible you have a super broad interest in sports, but most people who are into soccer/football and not into women's water polo would hear something like this and be like, "Uhh... yeah... okay... anyway, thanks for telling me, I guess," and feel pretty awkward and not know what to say.

You would both feel like I ignored the sport you're actually interested in (quickly dismissing it with a "that's cool bro" type remark) and then started pushing something you don't have any interest in instead.

Dissimilarity established; and especially if we are just meeting, trust sacrificed.

Chase

Chase said:

What sports are you interested in?

But let's say you're into soccer (or football, as it were).

Let's say I said, "What are you into?"

And you said, "Man, I just love football! Messi is the greatest!"

And I said, "Yeah, that's cool, football is cool, but I'm more into women's water polo. Are you familiar with Maggie Steffens? Do you know she's a 3 time Olympic champion and holds the record for most goals scored by an individual player in women's water polo history? Anyway, if you're not into women's water polo you should definitely check it out."

I guess it's possible you have a super broad interest in sports, but most people who are into soccer/football and not into women's water polo would hear something like this and be like, "Uhh... yeah... okay... anyway, thanks for telling me, I guess," and feel pretty awkward and not know what to say.

You would both feel like I ignored the sport you're actually interested in (quickly dismissing it with a "that's cool bro" type remark) and then started pushing something you don't have any interest in instead.

Dissimilarity established; and especially if we are just meeting, trust sacrificed.

Chase

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Okay got it, thank man. Tha was relly helpfull !!

Lover said:

I honestly don't see anything in OP's behavior that suggests him showing any romantic or sexual interest, at least from the girl's perspective. I don't see any big moves either - not even the close. From what I'm seeing, it all looks like polite conversation

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OP considers her a ten.
Then most likely he is not the only one seeing her that way.
Most girls that get interest easily, are half of the time just filtering out people that appear too be too interested to actually be aware of the girl herself. I am 100% on chase that she most likely is a more logical type. That's the POV i was typing from. A logical type that's a 10 is likely to filter out guys that make moves too quickly without calibrating with them, getting on their pace first, before moving to another pace.
But that's my thoughts on it. Who am I to think this

Chase said:

(lol I just spent 5 minutes writing a made-up dialogue about being a mad scientist)

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Regarding this, I wanted to ask, how do you practice coming up with these kind of responses on the spot?

Because a lot of times I feel I have an idea about how a dialogue should ideally go, but I catch myself not having this immediate tease or comment that moves it towards the right direction during the approach.

And it sometimes feels like the back and forth has to be super fast, because these few extra seconds of not coming up with something can bring an awkward silence, and even have the girl excuse herself and leave.

ChrisXKiss said:

Regarding this, I wanted to ask, how do you practice coming up with these kind of responses on the spot?

Because a lot of times I feel I have an idea about how a dialogue should ideally go, but I catch myself not having this immediate tease or comment that moves it towards the right direction during the approach.

And it sometimes feels like the back and forth has to be super fast, because these few extra seconds of not coming up with something can bring an awkward silence, and even have the girl excuse herself and leave.

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How are you with your friends or the people you actually enjoy being with?
I think the most important part of it for you will be to just not try to be someone else than a more calibrated and good version of you. Anyway I am going to write something on inner game and you can read it. I think I will write it today as a part of selftherapy

mirror said:

How are you with your friends or the people you actually enjoy being with?
I think the most important part of it for you will be to just not try to be someone else than a more calibrated and good version of you. Anyway I am going to write something on inner game and you can read it. I think I will write it today as a part of selftherapy

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I don’t disagree with this, in general if the girl stays around and we have time to talk it makes a lot of sense.

What I am talking about mostly is how to reach that point, that she hooks and wants to continue the interaction.

Because very early, she basically has no reason to even stop what she is doing and listen to some stranger.

So I’ve been thinking of ways to make this initial conversation so exciting and intriguing that she feels: “who is this guy, he is so interesting”, and wants to get to pay attention to you more.

I guess that’s what a lot of the old school routines were created to do, I’m just thinking what’s the best way to for it without routines and by being in the moment.

@ChrisXKiss,

ChrisXKiss said:

Regarding this, I wanted to ask, how do you practice coming up with these kind of responses on the spot?

Because a lot of times I feel I have an idea about how a dialogue should ideally go, but I catch myself not having this immediate tease or comment that moves it towards the right direction during the approach.

And it sometimes feels like the back and forth has to be super fast, because these few extra seconds of not coming up with something can bring an awkward silence, and even have the girl excuse herself and leave.

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It's all just practice.

1. First you think up witty repartee 5 minutes too late.
   
   
2. Some of those are reusable so you mentally store them away.
   
   
3. Then you end up in situations where you can reuse humor you thought up earlier.
   
   
4. At first you are still slow, coming up with witty remarks then hoping the conversation comes back around so you can use them.
   
   
5. Then you start to come up with patterns/templates, basically mental routines you use: "For this type remark, use that type of wit." e.g., a girl tells you what her job is, and immediately you run through your templates -->
   
   • Boring job --> some joke about how that job must have her on the edge of her seat all day
   • Messy job --> some joke about how you could tell she liked messes
   • Artistic job --> some joke about how she's going to be asking you to model for her
   • Teaching job --> some joke about how you could already feel the patience oozing off of her

Eventually you have so many wisecrack templates committed to memory that everything people say is just getting filtered through your "Is there a joke here?" sieve and you are effortlessly producing zingers as a matter of course.

Example of some templates for zingers:


I have a bunch more in Lush Teases™, though that is not available right now (I may rerelease sometime next spring -- email list for it is here if interested).

-C

Arnav said:

My conv wan't the most charming or flirtateous but it was pleasant and decent enought that i have gotten a no close with this vibe before
shouldn't her 2 major compliances mean she was highly attracted, why did she turn down the number close?

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I don't think she was highly attracted to you. Sooner "attracted enough to listen and see what kind of guy you are".

Arnav said:

Me: So anyway, I’m getting late. If I could take your number, I would love to get to know you more.

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Why did you ask for her number?

Even if you would get a telephone number, it's a weaker form of contact than face-to-face. Why ask for her number when you can just continue the ongoing real life conversation?

I see it as lack of experience and very likely mental, emotional weakness - a lot of guys don't know how to lead the conversation, they get nervous and so they decide to try get number "and do something later". Which is a huge mistake, as face-to-face interaction is way better than calling or texting later.

Do you realise face-to-face it's possible to for example go drink coffe with her and kiss close her within let's say 60 minutes of the aproach? It's a bad choice to ruin such a possibility by taking the number and ending the conversation.

Furthermore - the same goes for the same-day-sex thing. I know many people see this as something hard to realistically believe, but if you don't try, you'll never get such situations. Why forfeit your chance for a same-day-sex by ending the interaction and trying to get a number?

Arnav said:

Me: Okay, what about Insta?

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OMG... I think this sounds lame and self-degrading.

Arnav said:

Her I can't give away my number like this seemed like this was anti-slut defence becuse from it looked to me she was interested in me, but perhaps needed a much longer interaction, more connection to feel it socially acceptable in her mind to give her number away to a stranger.

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I think first of all she needed a better, more "personal" interaction. Not a "hobby interview" interaction.

I have no idea what kind of energy you had during the conversation, but if the energy was matching the dialogue, then it wasn't good.

What was your "marketing idea" for the conversation? What kind of person did you try to "sell" yourself as?

ChrisXKiss said:

Because very early, she basically has no reason to even stop what she is doing and listen to some stranger.

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There is some research on this. It basically says the best first dates are where the girl is talkative and talks more than the guy.
I don't know why, but somehow it correlates with relationship satisfaction. Hence the idea would be to simply ask a lot of questions, based on a cold read and adapted by observing responses and behavior. you could take some inspiration from some lists of questions online and stuff and look at what interests you in it.

CharmingPsychopath said:

I don't think she was highly attracted to you. Sooner "attracted enough to listen and see what kind of guy you are".



Why did you ask for her number?

Even if you would get a telephone number, it's a weaker form of contact than face-to-face. Why ask for her number when you can just continue the ongoing real life conversation?

I see it as lack of experience and very likely mental, emotional weakness - a lot of guys don't know how to lead the conversation, they get nervous and so they decide to try get number "and do something later". Which is a huge mistake, as face-to-face interaction is way better than calling or texting later.

Do you realise face-to-face it's possible to for example go drink coffe with her and kiss close her within let's say 60 minutes of the aproach? It's a bad choice to ruin such a possibility by taking the number and ending the conversation.

Furthermore - the same goes for the same-day-sex thing. I know many people see this as something hard to realistically believe, but if you don't try, you'll never get such situations. Why forfeit your chance for a same-day-sex by ending the interaction and trying to get a number?




OMG... I think this sounds lame and self-degrading.



I think first of all she needed a better, more "personal" interaction. Not a "hobby interview" interaction.

I have no idea what kind of energy you had during the conversation, but if the energy was matching the dialogue, then it wasn't good.

What was your "marketing idea" for the conversation? What kind of person did you try to "sell" yourself as?

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Yeah some pretty big mistakes. I have just started out cold approaching been a month or 2.

I have been number closing skiping the date ask, as its lower risk for me right now. I used to get pretty nervous during number closes. I have since got the fear out after 5 attempts, got 2 rekections 3 number closes.

Will be shifting to date ask-then number close.

My vibe was pleasant I would say, good tonality. I struggle with playfull conversation, teasing as I am still starting out.
So i have been working on lasting till the 10 min conv. And have made big improvements in that regard since the last month.

My marketing idea was basically to present myself as a friendly social guy, and hoping the novlety of the cold approach and my pleasant tonality would get me inital interest-number-build more amiliary with few texts-then date ask there- meet in person.
(because I have had some girls blusing hard just for the fact I open them with direct compliment opener)

Arnav said:

Will be shifting to date ask-then number close.

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Hint: it's good to avoid making it a "big proposal". It's good if you can for example point to a coffe shop in sight and say "they have great coffee over there! let's have some!".

Arnav said:

My marketing idea was basically to present myself as a friendly social guy, and hoping the novlety of the cold approach and my pleasant tonality would get me inital interest-number-build more amiliary with few texts-then date ask there- meet in person.
(because I have had some girls blusing hard just for the fact I open them with direct compliment opener)

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Friendly social guy is good (it sounded different from the dialogue words you've presented earlier - it looked bit like a nerdish intelectual).

Also, in my opinion it's a good idea to make it nonverbally sexual - like assuming she's a girl you're already fucking and FEELING it in yourself. The intuition girls have can pick this up and create a matching emotional state in her.