A perfect 10 gave me strong compliance but still said no- need insight?

[Arnav]

Hi guys,

I have been reading articles on gc and read the bits on commpliance and also some field reports on the forums and it seemed like compliance was the strongest indicator of attraction.

I recently appraoched a girl, and had 2 major compliances that I got from her, this gave me the impression this would be an easy one, but once I went for the number close she turned it down to my surprise.

Here is the interaction:

Me: Hey I just saw you passing by and I think you have a really good sense of style.
She: Oh, thanks.
She: She is about to swipe her subway card to exit and then says Let’s talk after the exit booth.
Me: I can’t, my subway card has been locked. I need to get it resolved at customer service, that will take time. Are you getting late? Can we talk for 2 minutes?
She: Yeah, I was getting late, but okay sure. (I was amazed — a stunner like her, a perfect 10, would stop from the exit toll gate midway to talk to me. Girls at the subway are always in a rush and most of my approaches fail at the exit gate; only ones on the platform work.)

<big compliance>

Me: So what do you do?
She: I work in biotech as a researcher.
Me: Interesting, what made you get into that?
She: I was always interested in that since school.
Me: Okay. So what do you do on the weekends?
She: I don’t really get time, I am always busy with work.
Me: Okay, can we move to the side? There are a lot of people coming here, I don’t want to get in their way.

(I move quickly all the way to the subway wall walking straight ahead without looking at her.)

She: Looks around a bit and follows me to the wall.
<big compliance again — I moved all the way to the wall and she followed me>

Me: I spin around as I reach near the wall where the traffic is lesser to face her. So yeah, what do you do on weekends?
She: I told you, I don’t get time. I’m swamped with work most of the time.
Me: Okay, are you from this city?
She: Yes, I am from here.
Me: Okay, I am from XXX place — a hilly town. (A well-known vacation spot in my country.)
She: Oh really?
Me: Yes. Have you ever been there?
She: No, I would like to sometime.
Me: You should go there sometime. Get some time off or you’ll be stuck in your work routine forever — go to work, back home, then repeat every day, and life will just pass you by.
She: Yeah, that’s what’s been happening with me.
Me: The place is really good. Along the way over there, you see an aqua-blue sparkling river, and when you wake up you see snowcapped mountains — it’s great.

(She really started smiling here — descriptive language seems to have a strong impact.)

She: So why did you move to the city?
Me: My parents moved for the city life and work opportunities.
Me: So what else gets you interested?
She: I like to read.
Me: About what?
She: I also have a background in neuroscience, so things on that topic.
Me: Oh really? I like neuroscience, but I’m more interested in psychology.
She: Oh, okay.
Me: Do you know about Carl Jung?
She: Yeahh. (Nods her head)
Me: I’m fascinated by that guy. He has such depth about life. (I say this with enthusiasm.)
She: Starts smiling again.
Me: So neuroscience — I’ve read a few books on that topic. Do you know about Jaak Panksepp, something like that?
She: Ummmm, no. I think not.
Me: So what books have you read on that?
She: There is one by a neuroscientist called Daniel Kahneman.
Me: Oh yeah, Daniel Kahneman. I know that guy. I read Thinking, Fast and Slow, but I couldn’t understand it at the time — now I do understand a lot of his ideas.
She: Yeah.
Me: So anyway, I’m getting late. If I could take your number, I would love to get to know you more.
She: I just can’t give away my number like this. It’s nothing personal, I hope you understand. It’s great that you came up and talked to me.
Me: Okay, what about Insta?
She: No, I can’t, sorry.
Me: Okay, anyway, it was nice talking to you. Have a good day.
She: Okay, bye.

My conv wan't the most charming or flirtateous but it was pleasant and decent enought that i have gotten a no close with this vibe before
shouldn't her 2 major compliances mean she was highly attracted, why did she turn down the number close?

Her I can't give away my number like this seemed like this was anti-slut defence becuse from it looked to me she was interested in me, but perhaps needed a much longer interaction, more connection to feel it socially acceptable in her mind to give her number away to a stranger.

Would love to know the thoughts of more experienced guys here?

 

[S.S Can]

you’re not flirting with her G.

compliance is one part but you also need to be teasing, qualifying and escalating.

absolute basics here are approaching with a flirtatious vibe, it should be as if you guys are playing a game in terms of the interaction.

qualifying, if she likes you, she needs to know why you like her. make her jump through hoops in terms of letting her know what you like about her and also letting her know what you don’t.

you have to make the interaction man to woman, this reads like a conversation that could be had between any two human beings, and you need to be moving this interaction towards the goal of facilitating another meet.

touch her innocuously when you stop her, tap her arm and whatnot SMOOTHLY.

the girl is thinking that however this encounter went is going to be replicated over the course of the date. If she’s not laughing, being moved, and being attracted by you she’s not gonna want to waste the time to come out.

 

[Arnav]

you’re not flirting with her G.

compliance is one part but you also need to be teasing, qualifying and escalating.

absolute basics here are approaching with a flirtatious vibe, it should be as if you guys are playing a game in terms of the interaction.

qualifying, if she likes you, she needs to know why you like her. make her jump through hoops in terms of letting her know what you like about her and also letting her know what you don’t.

you have to make the interaction man to woman, this reads like a conversation that could be had between any two human beings, and you need to be moving this interaction towards the goal of facilitating another meet.

touch her innocuously when you stop her, tap her arm and whatnot SMOOTHLY.

the girl is thinking that however this encounter went is going to be replicated over the course of the date. If she’s not laughing, being moved, and being attracted by you she’s not gonna want to waste the time to come out.

She seemed interested in me during the interaction, soher I can't give my number away like this seemed liem anti-slut defence and maybe that she need3d a longer interaction, more com fort and connection.

So you thinking adding more fliration, teases and qualification makes the duration of the interaction irrelavant?

 

[Chase]

@Arnav,

The girl seemed to like you initially! Interaction just needs a bit of work.

Hi guys,

I have been reading articles on gc and read the bits on commpliance and also some field reports on the forums and it seemed like compliance was the strongest indicator of attraction.

I recently appraoched a girl, and had 2 major compliances that I got from her, this gave me the impression this would be an easy one, but once I went for the number close she turned it down to my surprise.

Compliance is good.

But you only had a few bits of it here, and not really that super major. Good initial compliance, but just that: "initial."

Like @S.S Can notes, there's no flirtation/arousal-building here. You also drop the ball on building similarity (connection).

Quick breakdown:

Here is the interaction:

Me: Hey I just saw you passing by and I think you have a really good sense of style.
She: Oh, thanks.
She: She is about to swipe her subway card to exit and then says Let’s talk after the exit booth.

Pretty cool.

HOWEVER: she is immediately taking the lead here, which generally girls who are attracted to you will not do (they wait for you to lead).

My guess is based on this girl's description of herself / her life, she is very logical and doesn't meet many people, so she wanted to maximize her chance here of not missing out on a potential good connection.

(Had you connected with her, you still could've laid her, had you done things right... these logical busy girls tend to be pretty straightforward lays. Often they are pretty lonely and starved for connection. Most of the men around them are nerds who don't make moves and they don't have much in the way of social lives. Most of the guys who approach them make typical retarded approaches that don't go anywhere, too.)

Me: I can’t, my subway card has been locked. I need to get it resolved at customer service, that will take time. Are you getting late? Can we talk for 2 minutes?
She: Yeah, I was getting late, but okay sure. (I was amazed — a stunner like her, a perfect 10, would stop from the exit toll gate midway to talk to me. Girls at the subway are always in a rush and most of my approaches fail at the exit gate; only ones on the platform work.)

<big compliance>

Again -- likely due to the nature of her lifestyle + personality. Also, she was the one leading you to somewhere to talk. Good investment, though not necessarily "compliance."

Me: So what do you do?
She: I work in biotech as a researcher.
Me: Interesting, what made you get into that?
She: I was always interested in that since school.

Need to tease/flirt. Good habit to get into: you must make one tease within the first 30 seconds of talking to her.

e.g.:

You: So what do you do?​

Her: I work in biotech as a researcher.​

You: Ah, a Dr. Frankenstein, I see. Cooking up monsters in the lab?​

Her: [laughs] No, I just work on creating new compounds.​

You: New compounds to... take over the world?​

Her: [laughs] No, mostly for creating new kinds of textiles, things like that.​

You: So in a few years all my shirts will be made of your compounds, is that what you're saying?​

Her: Something like that!​

See how doing it like this, by humorously assuming things about what she does, we can actually get her revealing MORE about what she does while enjoying the process more at the same time?

Me: Okay. So what do you do on the weekends?
She: I don’t really get time, I am always busy with work.
Me: Okay, can we move to the side? There are a lot of people coming here, I don’t want to get in their way.

(I move quickly all the way to the subway wall walking straight ahead without looking at her.)

She: Looks around a bit and follows me to the wall.
<big compliance again — I moved all the way to the wall and she followed me>

Me: I spin around as I reach near the wall where the traffic is lesser to face her. So yeah, what do you do on weekends?
She: I told you, I don’t get time. I’m swamped with work most of the time.
Me: Okay, are you from this city?

You're jumping topics here. There's no relation between the conversation topics.

What do you do → What do you do on weekends? → Are you from here?

At this point it just feels like an interview. You need to DIG INTO the topics you bring up.

e.g.,

You: What do you do on the weekends?​

Her: I don’t really get time, I am always busy with work.​

You: So mad scientist during the weekdays, mad scientist on the weekend too, huh?​

Her: Basically, yes.​

You: What do you do to unwind then, more science?​

Her: [laughs] I have like no time to unwind.​

You: Is this because you love what you do or because your boss is a slave driver?​

Her: [laughs] The second one.​

You: Let me see that ring you are wearing. It's interesting.​

Her: [holds hand to you]​

You: [take hand, inspect ring, turning hand this way and that]​

You: [still holding her hand] Anyway, that is so sad. I wish I could set you free. We need to start an underground railroad for mad scientists.​

Her: [laughs] We should.​

You: All right, no, seriously though. You must get SOME time off. Maybe an hour a week when they let you out of the lab? Where are you off to right now?​

Her: I'm actually going to the lab right now.​

You: Are you coming from one lab and heading to another?​

Her: [laughs] I'm coming from home.​

You: Were you doing science at home?​

Her: [laughs] I was not.​

You: All right, we have discovered some time when you are not in the lab.​

Her: You got me.​

You: [let her hand go] Is it crazy that I want to run off with you right now and take you to get an ice cream? I feel like we need to break you out of this "always in the lab, enslaved by my boss" deal.​

Her: I do need to get to work.​

You: What if you were 20 minutes late today? Do they put you in the science vat?​

Her: [laughs] I mean... I guess I could be 20 minutes late.​

You: Let's get ice creams then.​

Her: Okay.​

(lol I just spent 5 minutes writing a made-up dialogue about being a mad scientist)

Anyway, see how we just hook into ONE topic here, about how she never gets any free time because she is always in the lab, and use humor to find out what the deal is?

Because one thing you know: if she has zero free time, she is ACHING for an escape.

Another thing you know: if you can figure out where in her busy schedule she actually DOES have time, and you can frame yourself as the sole escape from her shackles, she will run to you as her vacation from her busy life.

She: Yes, I am from here.
Me: Okay, I am from XXX place — a hilly town. (A well-known vacation spot in my country.)
She: Oh really?
Me: Yes. Have you ever been there?
She: No, I would like to sometime.
Me: You should go there sometime. Get some time off or you’ll be stuck in your work routine forever — go to work, back home, then repeat every day, and life will just pass you by.
She: Yeah, that’s what’s been happening with me.
Me: The place is really good. Along the way over there, you see an aqua-blue sparkling river, and when you wake up you see snowcapped mountains — it’s great.

(She really started smiling here — descriptive language seems to have a strong impact.)

The evocative language is nice. You get some points for being from a known vacation spot and painting her a picture of it. Breaks her out of the mental pattern of drudgery she is in a bit.

However, you had to do a lot of jumping to get here, and it does not really feel connected to the rest of the conversation.

She: So why did you move to the city?
Me: My parents moved for the city life and work opportunities.
Me: So what else gets you interested?

She was probably a bit interested after the vacation hometown description.

However, the answer you gave was boring, and then you immediately switched to another unrelated topic.

Instead:

Her: So why did you move to the city?​

You: No choice. Parents dragged me along as a pup when I had no say. If it was up to me, we would've stayed in the hills... but c'est la vie. I've adapted. City life has its own kind of magic. How about you, are you happy here?​

Her: I blah blah blah​

She: I like to read.
Me: About what?
She: I also have a background in neuroscience, so things on that topic.
Me: Oh really? I like neuroscience, but I’m more interested in psychology.
She: Oh, okay.

She doesn't care about your interests at this point.

Responding to "I like X" with "Oh, X is okay but I prefer Y" just spins up dissimilarity, damaging connection/trust and pushing her further away.

Better:

Her: I like to read about neuroscience.​

You: Why am I not surprised?​

Her: [laughs] No, seriously!​

You: I'll bet you read the DRIEST papers on neuroscience you can find. "The presence of amyloid-beta proteins in the brains of Alzheimer's patients: a meta-analysis."​

Her: [laughs] Not like that!​

You: Uh-huh. I believe you.​

Her: I read books on neuroscience. Not papers. I just find it interesting.​

You: Truthfully, the brain is fascinating. I read a book by Jeff Hawkins, the creator of the Palm Pilot, on the nature of how the brain works, some years back. He had a very interesting theory about the brain serving as a prediction engine.​

Her: Oh totally! I can totally see that.​

You: You know what's interesting -- the brain in your head is interested in reading about itself, basically. Ever think about that?​

Her: OMG, you are right!​

See how much less dry the conversation can be when you focus on making it FUN?

Teasing the girl first, then relating to her on it, then sharing some insight, etc.

Me: Do you know about Carl Jung?
She: Yeahh. (Nods her head)
Me: I’m fascinated by that guy. He has such depth about life. (I say this with enthusiasm.)
She: Starts smiling again.

It is sad to say, but at this point -- she doesn't care about your interests.

Maybe never will. I've had girlfriends of years who never really cared what I was reading (despite being readers themselves).

Especially if she is a logical chick. Logical chicks only really care about their own interests. They don't tend to be as people-focused as more emotional/empathic chicks do.

Anyway -- talking to girls about what you like in movies, books, music, etc., is rarely a worthwhile topic, unless it usefully pushes the interaction forward one way or another.

Me: So neuroscience — I’ve read a few books on that topic. Do you know about Jaak Panksepp, something like that?
She: Ummmm, no. I think not.
Me: So what books have you read on that?

This is completely impersonal. You are not finding anything about her at all. You are not teasing her about her. You are not touching her. You are not getting her to comply/invest.

Instead, you are feeling around for superficial commonalities.

You will completely lose girls with this kind of conversation.

Whatever intrigue she had earlier with that "Ooh, a man! Let me talk to him!" reaction, plus some interest from your origin in the vacation spot, is being lost with the dry, impersonal conversation here.

She: There is one by a neuroscientist called Daniel Kahneman.
Me: Oh yeah, Daniel Kahneman. I know that guy. I read Thinking, Fast and Slow, but I couldn’t understand it at the time — now I do understand a lot of his ideas.
She: Yeah.

More dry, impersonal, superficial convo.

This one is lost.

Me: So anyway, I’m getting late. If I could take your number, I would love to get to know you more.

What she hears: "This conversation is very dry but I would like to have more dry conversation with you in the future."

She: I just can’t give away my number like this. It’s nothing personal, I hope you understand. It’s great that you came up and talked to me.

Polite rejection. Nice encouragement to approach though!

Me: Okay, what about Insta?

Why??...

My conv wan't the most charming or flirtateous but it was pleasant and decent enought that i have gotten a no close with this vibe before

Dry, impersonal, superficial "jumping from superficial topic to superficial topic" conversations with no flirtation, arousal, and minimal compliance will only lead to solid numbers from girls who really, really like your look and vibe.

If you want to close girls who aren't totally sold on you from your look/vibe alone, you will need to learn GAME.

shouldn't her 2 major compliances mean she was highly attracted, why did she turn down the number close?

Again: good initial compliance, but you did not build other compliance beyond this, you did not build arousal at all, and what similarity you built was mostly superficial, then dashed by you going the other way and building dissimilarity with her by talking about preferring different genres then listing out authors she wasn't familiar with.

By the time you went for the close, the only thing you were offering her was dry conversation on superficial commonalities she wouldn't be able to connect on. That will get you turned down for the number close.

Also: when you number close, don't just ask for the number. Ask her out instead!

How to Get a Phone Number from a Girl Every Time You Ask

One of the most glaring things missing from the content available on the blog here has been an authoritative article on how to get a phone number from a girl. I put up "Natural Number Swapping" sometime back, and that covers the basics; Ricardus has covered phone numbers somewhat in a couple of...

www.girlschase.com

(IME, guys who go straight to asking for numbers usually know/sense they do not have enough to ask the girl on the date yet, so try to skip it by going for the number. If you're not ready to ask her on a date yet though, unless you can frame it precisely right, you are also not ready to ask her for her number!)

Her I can't give away my number like this seemed like this was anti-slut defence becuse from it looked to me she was interested in me, but perhaps needed a much longer interaction, more connection to feel it socially acceptable in her mind to give her number away to a stranger.

Would love to know the thoughts of more experienced guys here?

It has nothing to do with the length, and everything to do with the content, and the emotions it created -- or lack thereof.

Next interactions, focus on these:

• Tease her within the first 30 seconds. Then every now and again after that.
  
  
• Look for a chance to develop some callback humor. "Mad scientist" would've been perfect here.
  
  
• Dig into topics for EMOTIONS around them: why she does it, what she likes about, etc. Don't just topic jump.
  
  
• Learn to thread-cut to change topics fluidly (I discuss it in my book, in Spellbinding, and in TDA Module 2).
  
  
• Get compliance beyond moving girls (though moving girls is great!). Ask her for things amidst the conversation -- get her continuing to invest.
  
  
• If you encounter busy girls, dig into why they're so busy and when they have free time. No girl is really busy 24/7 -- she has to sleep and eat at least sometimes, and maybe squeeze a shower in here or there. There is probably also other time when she is not sleeping, eating, and showering, and also not at work. Find out what she's doing then. That is important for figuring out if you can instant date her or propose a date with her, so you can pace your proposal to match her schedule.
  
  
• Avoid telling girls about favorite books, music, movies, or other superficial commonalities unless it DEFINITELY helps the bond in some way. Avoid talking about your personal preferences to "build a connection" -- unless she perfectly connects it will do the OPPOSITE (i.e., make her feel dissimilar to you).

Hope this helps, man!

Chase

 

[Arnav]

That was pretty exhaustive feedback, thank man! Love it!

Yeah it's just been a month or two cold appraoching, still getting the hang on conv. I go for vague number closes and skip the date ask, becuase I am still pretty nervous and have been trying to extinguish the fear with exposure.

About your point on dry impersonal conversation,

I shared my tastes in neurosicene authors and psychology becuase I thought that was her topic of interest, given her background and profession I reasoned that will get her interested build rapport and connection.

Becuase If someone talks to me about sports I get really interested in that

do I have the wrong idea of having personal conversation?

 

[mirror]

Hi guys,

I have been reading articles on gc and read the bits on commpliance and also some field reports on the forums and it seemed like compliance was the strongest indicator of attraction.

I recently appraoched a girl, and had 2 major compliances that I got from her, this gave me the impression this would be an easy one, but once I went for the number close she turned it down to my surprise.

Here is the interaction:

Me: Hey I just saw you passing by and I think you have a really good sense of style.
She: Oh, thanks.
She: She is about to swipe her subway card to exit and then says Let’s talk after the exit booth.
Me: I can’t, my subway card has been locked. I need to get it resolved at customer service, that will take time. Are you getting late? Can we talk for 2 minutes?
She: Yeah, I was getting late, but okay sure. (I was amazed — a stunner like her, a perfect 10, would stop from the exit toll gate midway to talk to me. Girls at the subway are always in a rush and most of my approaches fail at the exit gate; only ones on the platform work.)

<big compliance>

Here you went wrong. She acknowledged she sees you as a human being. Then you went on and assumed you could show interest in more already.
Wrong move. You shouldn't have shown interest in more than friendship yet. That could have come later. You made several big moves showing romantic/sexual interest to a girl that hadnt decided yet whether she liked you. The moment she likes you, things change. For this girl you would need 2-3 mddtings at least to get it going. But the moment you show too much interest in more she flakes and starts pushing you away more.

Compliance is not the same as treating you as a human being with value.

Your convo was fine except it going into the personal space a tad too quickly. The girl is smart, so you have to be too.

1) asking about her personal time
2) the numberclose
3) the insta follow up.. baddddd, should have turned it around. Maybe ask her whether she would be interested in talking to you more too? And then asked her what would be smart.

 

[Arnav]

@Arnav,

The girl seemed to like you initially! Interaction just needs a bit of work.



Compliance is good.

But you only had a few bits of it here, and not really that super major. Good initial compliance, but just that: "initial."

Like @S.S Can notes, there's no flirtation/arousal-building here. You also drop the ball on building similarity (connection).

Quick breakdown:



Pretty cool.

HOWEVER: she is immediately taking the lead here, which generally girls who are attracted to you will not do (they wait for you to lead).

My guess is based on this girl's description of herself / her life, she is very logical and doesn't meet many people, so she wanted to maximize her chance here of not missing out on a potential good connection.

(Had you connected with her, you still could've laid her, had you done things right... these logical busy girls tend to be pretty straightforward lays. Often they are pretty lonely and starved for connection. Most of the men around them are nerds who don't make moves and they don't have much in the way of social lives. Most of the guys who approach them make typical retarded approaches that don't go anywhere, too.)



Again -- likely due to the nature of her lifestyle + personality. Also, she was the one leading you to somewhere to talk. Good investment, though not necessarily "compliance."



Need to tease/flirt. Good habit to get into: you must make one tease within the first 30 seconds of talking to her.

e.g.:

You: So what do you do?​

Her: I work in biotech as a researcher.​

You: Ah, a Dr. Frankenstein, I see. Cooking up monsters in the lab?​

Her: [laughs] No, I just work on creating new compounds.​

You: New compounds to... take over the world?​

Her: [laughs] No, mostly for creating new kinds of textiles, things like that.​

You: So in a few years all my shirts will be made of your compounds, is that what you're saying?​

Her: Something like that!​

See how doing it like this, by humorously assuming things about what she does, we can actually get her revealing MORE about what she does while enjoying the process more at the same time?



You're jumping topics here. There's no relation between the conversation topics.

What do you do → What do you do on weekends? → Are you from here?

At this point it just feels like an interview. You need to DIG INTO the topics you bring up.

e.g.,

You: What do you do on the weekends?​

Her: I don’t really get time, I am always busy with work.​

You: So mad scientist during the weekdays, mad scientist on the weekend too, huh?​

Her: Basically, yes.​

You: What do you do to unwind then, more science?​

Her: [laughs] I have like no time to unwind.​

You: Is this because you love what you do or because your boss is a slave driver?​

Her: [laughs] The second one.​

You: Let me see that ring you are wearing. It's interesting.​

Her: [holds hand to you]​

You: [take hand, inspect ring, turning hand this way and that]​

You: [still holding her hand] Anyway, that is so sad. I wish I could set you free. We need to start an underground railroad for mad scientists.​

Her: [laughs] We should.​

You: All right, no, seriously though. You must get SOME time off. Maybe an hour a week when they let you out of the lab? Where are you off to right now?​

Her: I'm actually going to the lab right now.​

You: Are you coming from one lab and heading to another?​

Her: [laughs] I'm coming from home.​

You: Were you doing science at home?​

Her: [laughs] I was not.​

You: All right, we have discovered some time when you are not in the lab.​

Her: You got me.​

You: [let her hand go] Is it crazy that I want to run off with you right now and take you to get an ice cream? I feel like we need to break you out of this "always in the lab, enslaved by my boss" deal.​

Her: I do need to get to work.​

You: What if you were 20 minutes late today? Do they put you in the science vat?​

Her: [laughs] I mean... I guess I could be 20 minutes late.​

You: Let's get ice creams then.​

Her: Okay.​

(lol I just spent 5 minutes writing a made-up dialogue about being a mad scientist)

Anyway, see how we just hook into ONE topic here, about how she never gets any free time because she is always in the lab, and use humor to find out what the deal is?

Because one thing you know: if she has zero free time, she is ACHING for an escape.

Another thing you know: if you can figure out where in her busy schedule she actually DOES have time, and you can frame yourself as the sole escape from her shackles, she will run to you as her vacation from her busy life.



The evocative language is nice. You get some points for being from a known vacation spot and painting her a picture of it. Breaks her out of the mental pattern of drudgery she is in a bit.

However, you had to do a lot of jumping to get here, and it does not really feel connected to the rest of the conversation.



She was probably a bit interested after the vacation hometown description.

However, the answer you gave was boring, and then you immediately switched to another unrelated topic.

Instead:

Her: So why did you move to the city?​

You: No choice. Parents dragged me along as a pup when I had no say. If it was up to me, we would've stayed in the hills... but c'est la vie. I've adapted. City life has its own kind of magic. How about you, are you happy here?​

Her: I blah blah blah​

She doesn't care about your interests at this point.

Responding to "I like X" with "Oh, X is okay but I prefer Y" just spins up dissimilarity, damaging connection/trust and pushing her further away.

Better:

Her: I like to read about neuroscience.​

You: Why am I not surprised?​

Her: [laughs] No, seriously!​

You: I'll bet you read the DRIEST papers on neuroscience you can find. "The presence of amyloid-beta proteins in the brains of Alzheimer's patients: a meta-analysis."​

Her: [laughs] Not like that!​

You: Uh-huh. I believe you.​

Her: I read books on neuroscience. Not papers. I just find it interesting.​

You: Truthfully, the brain is fascinating. I read a book by Jeff Hawkins, the creator of the Palm Pilot, on the nature of how the brain works, some years back. He had a very interesting theory about the brain serving as a prediction engine.​

Her: Oh totally! I can totally see that.​

You: You know what's interesting -- the brain in your head is interested in reading about itself, basically. Ever think about that?​

Her: OMG, you are right!​

See how much less dry the conversation can be when you focus on making it FUN?

Teasing the girl first, then relating to her on it, then sharing some insight, etc.



It is sad to say, but at this point -- she doesn't care about your interests.

Maybe never will. I've had girlfriends of years who never really cared what I was reading (despite being readers themselves).

Especially if she is a logical chick. Logical chicks only really care about their own interests. They don't tend to be as people-focused as more emotional/empathic chicks do.

Anyway -- talking to girls about what you like in movies, books, music, etc., is rarely a worthwhile topic, unless it usefully pushes the interaction forward one way or another.



This is completely impersonal. You are not finding anything about her at all. You are not teasing her about her. You are not touching her. You are not getting her to comply/invest.

Instead, you are feeling around for superficial commonalities.

You will completely lose girls with this kind of conversation.

Whatever intrigue she had earlier with that "Ooh, a man! Let me talk to him!" reaction, plus some interest from your origin in the vacation spot, is being lost with the dry, impersonal conversation here.



More dry, impersonal, superficial convo.

This one is lost.



What she hears: "This conversation is very dry but I would like to have more dry conversation with you in the future."



Polite rejection. Nice encouragement to approach though!





Why??...



Dry, impersonal, superficial "jumping from superficial topic to superficial topic" conversations with no flirtation, arousal, and minimal compliance will only lead to solid numbers from girls who really, really like your look and vibe.

If you want to close girls who aren't totally sold on you from your look/vibe alone, you will need to learn GAME.



Again: good initial compliance, but you did not build other compliance beyond this, you did not build arousal at all, and what similarity you built was mostly superficial, then dashed by you going the other way and building dissimilarity with her by talking about preferring different genres then listing out authors she wasn't familiar with.

By the time you went for the close, the only thing you were offering her was dry conversation on superficial commonalities she wouldn't be able to connect on. That will get you turned down for the number close.

Also: when you number close, don't just ask for the number. Ask her out instead!

How to Get a Phone Number from a Girl Every Time You Ask

One of the most glaring things missing from the content available on the blog here has been an authoritative article on how to get a phone number from a girl. I put up "Natural Number Swapping" sometime back, and that covers the basics; Ricardus has covered phone numbers somewhat in a couple of...

www.girlschase.com

(IME, guys who go straight to asking for numbers usually know/sense they do not have enough to ask the girl on the date yet, so try to skip it by going for the number. If you're not ready to ask her on a date yet though, unless you can frame it precisely right, you are also not ready to ask her for her number!)



It has nothing to do with the length, and everything to do with the content, and the emotions it created -- or lack thereof.

Next interactions, focus on these:

• Tease her within the first 30 seconds. Then every now and again after that.
  
  
• Look for a chance to develop some callback humor. "Mad scientist" would've been perfect here.
  
  
• Dig into topics for EMOTIONS around them: why she does it, what she likes about, etc. Don't just topic jump.
  
  
• Learn to thread-cut to change topics fluidly (I discuss it in my book, in Spellbinding, and in TDA Module 2).
  
  
• Get compliance beyond moving girls (though moving girls is great!). Ask her for things amidst the conversation -- get her continuing to invest.
  
  
• If you encounter busy girls, dig into why they're so busy and when they have free time. No girl is really busy 24/7 -- she has to sleep and eat at least sometimes, and maybe squeeze a shower in here or there. There is probably also other time when she is not sleeping, eating, and showering, and also not at work. Find out what she's doing then. That is important for figuring out if you can instant date her or propose a date with her, so you can pace your proposal to match her schedule.
  
  
• Avoid telling girls about favorite books, music, movies, or other superficial commonalities unless it DEFINITELY helps the bond in some way. Avoid talking about your personal preferences to "build a connection" -- unless she perfectly connects it will do the OPPOSITE (i.e., make her feel dissimilar to you).

Hope this helps, man!

Chase

That was pretty exhaustive feedback, thank man! Love it!

Yeah it's just been a month or two cold appraoching, still getting the hang on conv. I go for vague number closes and skip the date ask, becuase I am still pretty nervous and have been trying to extinguish the fear with exposure.

About your point on dry impersonal conversation,

I shared my tastes in neurosicene authors and psychology becuase I thought that was her topic of interest, given her background and profession I reasoned that will get her interested build rapport and connection.

Becuase If someone talks to me about sports I get really interested in that

do I have the wrong idea of having personal conversation?

 

[Lover]

Then you went on and assumed you could show interest in more already.
Wrong move. You shouldn't have shown interest in more than friendship yet. That could have come later. You made several big moves showing romantic/sexual interest to a girl that hadnt decided yet whether she liked you

I think we are seeing this very differently.

I honestly don't see anything in OP's behavior that suggests him showing any romantic or sexual interest, at least from the girl's perspective. I don't see any big moves either - not even the close. From what I'm seeing, it all looks like polite conversation

Your convo was fine except it going into the personal space a tad too quickly

It was barely personal. Knowing about her job and her reading hobby isn't personal. Knowing exactly what makes her "her", that's personal.

On the other hand, the conversation looks formal and all over the place.

Maybe ask her whether she would be interested in talking to you more too? And then asked her what would be smart

The first part can work - if he actually shows intent and tell her he likes talking to her and is curious if she wants to meet again another time. Then suggest something specific like coffee, ice cream, walk in the park etc. Then grab her contact info

The second part (asked her what would be smart) lacks leadership. Most girls default state is to make things not happen with a guy. And in this case, she has framed herself already as someone who doesn't have time for anything else besides work. It's unlikely she wants to take charge of anything besides her regular schedule

Any guy is better off assuming a girl doesn't want to take the lead and wants him to take charge

 

[Chase]

Becuase If someone talks to me about sports I get really interested in that

do I have the wrong idea of having personal conversation?

What sports are you interested in?

But let's say you're into soccer (or football, as it were).

Let's say I said, "What are you into?"

And you said, "Man, I just love football! Messi is the greatest!"

And I said, "Yeah, that's cool, football is cool, but I'm more into women's water polo. Are you familiar with Maggie Steffens? Do you know she's a 3 time Olympic champion and holds the record for most goals starred by an individual player in women's water polo history? Anyway, if you're not into women's water polo you should definitely check it out."

I guess it's possible you have a super broad interest in sports, but most people who are into soccer/football and not into women's water polo would hear something like this and be like, "Uhh... yeah... okay... anyway, thanks for telling me, I guess," and feel pretty awkward and not know what to say.

You would both feel like I ignored the sport you're actually interested in (quickly dismissing it with a "that's cool bro" type remark) and then started pushing something you don't have any interest in instead.

Dissimilarity established; and especially if we are just meeting, trust sacrificed.

Chase

 

[Arnav]

What sports are you interested in?

But let's say you're into soccer (or football, as it were).

Let's say I said, "What are you into?"

And you said, "Man, I just love football! Messi is the greatest!"

And I said, "Yeah, that's cool, football is cool, but I'm more into women's water polo. Are you familiar with Maggie Steffens? Do you know she's a 3 time Olympic champion and holds the record for most goals starred by an individual player in women's water polo history? Anyway, if you're not into women's water polo you should definitely check it out."

I guess it's possible you have a super broad interest in sports, but most people who are into soccer/football and not into women's water polo would hear something like this and be like, "Uhh... yeah... okay... anyway, thanks for telling me, I guess," and feel pretty awkward and not know what to say.

You would both feel like I ignored the sport you're actually interested in (quickly dismissing it with a "that's cool bro" type remark) and then started pushing something you don't have any interest in instead.

Dissimilarity established; and especially if we are just meeting, trust sacrificed.

Chase

Okay got it, thank man. Tha was relly helpfull !!

 

[mirror]

I honestly don't see anything in OP's behavior that suggests him showing any romantic or sexual interest, at least from the girl's perspective. I don't see any big moves either - not even the close. From what I'm seeing, it all looks like polite conversation

OP considers her a ten.
Then most likely he is not the only one seeing her that way.
Most girls that get interest easily, are half of the time just filtering out people that appear too be too interested to actually be aware of the girl herself. I am 100% on chase that she most likely is a more logical type. That's the POV i was typing from. A logical type that's a 10 is likely to filter out guys that make moves too quickly without calibrating with them, getting on their pace first, before moving to another pace.
But that's my thoughts on it. Who am I to think this