A Coward's First Steps

[CaligoTheCoward]

Funny thing is that a lot of users here would never ever use that username, and yet, they are the biggest coward on here.

Ahaha, it does take guts to willingly call yourself a coward in an ironic way, doesn't it? Maybe I'm not as cowardly as I thought!

It seems that my username is the hottest topic in this thread though. Is it really that shocking!? I just thought it would be cool to inspire other people who typically lurk like I do. And it's not like it isn't true... Also most of the people on here certainly have more results than me, so in my eyes its hard to see them as fellow cowards.

Thanks for your reply!

 

[Mr.SocialAcceptableHarem]

difficult. Getting used to that after 100 approaches is... a little disheartening to say the least

For me I remember, I think it was @Will_V who told me in one of my first posts, that I didn’t have enough experience to really analyze the data (the post was about my first 10 approaches), and that 100 is a better reference point to start drawing conclusions.

and at first I was like “holy shit how am I gonna do 100?”

But with time, I made it a lifestyle, and soon approaching was easy for me (it took about three months to get to that point)

So yeah don’t think of it as a race to get to 100, because from your perspective, even doing one approach is really hard (it was for me too), but if you set realistic goals, like: I’m gonna approach at least one girl every time I go out (which is what I did) soon you’ll find yourself doing 3 approaches each time, and then 6, and then 10.

A lot of potential quit points

I wanted to quit a lot too, but the prize seemed better than the punishment

But I still do think its important for me to learn to create those vibes, even as inexperienced as I am.

Don’t focus on making vibes yet, just be aware and observe, be a sponge and soak up all of the details of how your nonverbals cause her reactions and how her reactions cause you to react. You don’t want to really think but just expose yourself. After the interaction you can write down notes on what happened, and your thoughts and guesses as to what causes what. Then if you want you can share your field report in the forum and we’ll help you.

Maybe I'm in a rush, but I'd like to shed this virginity as soon as possible...

Use your urgency to work harder, but don’t rush the process. When we rush we tend to be sloppy. With patience we can focus on what we need to work on at the right pace. Your not only learning how to fuck girls, your also learning how to heal yourself from whatever is holding you back, everyone has a reason for the way they feel, I’d assume there’s some belief about yourself that is giving you low self esteem, and when you fix it, this process will become much easier and you won’t run into as many problems with girls.

My fundies are just barely passable, I don't make much money or have many material items

everyone has positive qualities, maybe your funny or your creative or your honest or compassionate these are all things that could be on the inside that you haven’t shown others because your not being authentic to yourself just yet. It takes courage to be yourself. As become more comfortable with these women, they will start to notice who you are and some of them will like who you are.

The fundamentals take time, but they only enhance your personality and characteristics, they don’t change who you really are, so don’t think without the good fundamentals you are valuable, your like a moth in the cocoon or something

just trick 'em into liking me

The truth is better then the lie, you just can’t see that yet

Looking forward to your next field report, you better make one!

Biggus

 

[gameboy]

CaligoTheCoward said:

My fundies are just barely passable, I don't make much money or have many material items

You don't need money to get laid, that's a myth. I picked up just as many or maybe even more girls when i was dead broke, than when I was financially successful.

 

[Will_V]

@CaligoTheCoward if you haven't already read this: https://www.girlschase.com/content/can-you-approach-4-girls-day-30-days

CaligoTheCoward said:

My fundies are just barely passable, I don't make much money or have many material items

You don't need money to get laid, that's a myth. I picked up just as many or maybe even more girls when i was dead broke, than when I was financially successful.

Absolutely correct. I've gotten laid with $500 to my name and no job, in a boat so small you could barely swing a cat. As long as you have great style and personality, a cast iron frame, and an irrepressible joie de vivre, there are always women who need just the kind of experience you have on offer.

 

[POB]

Thanks for your reply! Being myself around strangers is a little difficult. Getting used to that after 100 approaches is... a little disheartening to say the least. 100 is a lot of failures. A lot of potential quit points. I wonder how long I'll last? On one hand, I look at the past and can forecast nothing but utter failure in the future, but recently I've been crushing it by my own standards so I have some hope that I'll manage with the little self esteem I have in tact.

Todd Macfarlane is an all-time fan favorite author and comic book artist.
He has the best selling Spider-Man comic of all-time, plus the best selling single comic outside of Marvel and DC (Spawn #1).
The guy is a beast!

Before he rose stardom, he wanted to play baseball. Thing is, he busted his ankle and had to find a new gig.
As a broke ass young man, he started from the bottom, working two entry level jobs who paid him just enough to survive.
Because he's always been an avid comic book fan, one day he discovered that a successful
comic book artist lived right next to him, and went to ask him for guidance.
After that he decided to be a comic book artist, and started to draw at nights on his spare time.

Finding it to be better money, he plunged all his energy into perfecting his craft.
Then he made a list of all successful editors form the major comic companies, and started to send his work to them.
He spent one and a half year being rejected non-stop.

BUT some people replied back to him, giving him guidance and some pointers to work on.
And so he did!
Long story short, he got some breaks into the industry and started to be noticed.
Finally he landed a big gig and started to draw the coveted Spider-Man regular issue.
(BTW, using his style, not the Marvel style who at that time was becoming boring and old).
His signature Spider-Man quickly became a huge hit!
Fast forward a couple of months, he got complete control over the new revamped issue (art and story)!!!
It ended-up as the #5 most selled comic of all-time.

100 rejections is NOTHING my man.
There are guys who get that in a day (especially sales guys), but don't bulge one millimeter in perfecting
their craft and going after what they want.
Hope that inspires you.

 

[gameboy]

100 approaches doesn't mean 100 failures.

Maybe you get ignored a few times. But then there will be that one girl that smiles at you. Even if you don't get her number, this will make you want to go on. I'm still not at a point where I'm getting phone numbers or lays, but I know I'm on the right path because I can make girls happy with a sincere compliment or a simple "hi"!

 

[CaligoTheCoward]

For me I remember, I think it was @Will_V who told me in one of my first posts, that I didn’t have enough experience to really analyze the data (the post was about my first 10 approaches), and that 100 is a better reference point to start drawing conclusions.

and at first I was like “holy shit how am I gonna do 100?”

But with time, I made it a lifestyle, and soon approaching was easy for me (it took about three months to get to that point)

So yeah don’t think of it as a race to get to 100, because from your perspective, even doing one approach is really hard (it was for me too), but if you set realistic goals, like: I’m gonna approach at least one girl every time I go out (which is what I did) soon you’ll find yourself doing 3 approaches each time, and then 6, and then 10.



I wanted to quit a lot too, but the prize seemed better than the punishment


Don’t focus on making vibes yet, just be aware and observe, be a sponge and soak up all of the details of how your nonverbals cause her reactions and how her reactions cause you to react. You don’t want to really think but just expose yourself. After the interaction you can write down notes on what happened, and your thoughts and guesses as to what causes what. Then if you want you can share your field report in the forum and we’ll help you.


Use your urgency to work harder, but don’t rush the process. When we rush we tend to be sloppy. With patience we can focus on what we need to work on at the right pace. Your not only learning how to fuck girls, your also learning how to heal yourself from whatever is holding you back, everyone has a reason for the way they feel, I’d assume there’s some belief about yourself that is giving you low self esteem, and when you fix it, this process will become much easier and you won’t run into as many problems with girls.

everyone has positive qualities, maybe your funny or your creative or your honest or compassionate these are all things that could be on the inside that you haven’t shown others because your not being authentic to yourself just yet. It takes courage to be yourself. As become more comfortable with these women, they will start to notice who you are and some of them will like who you are.

The fundamentals take time, but they only enhance your personality and characteristics, they don’t change who you really are, so don’t think without the good fundamentals you are valuable, your like a moth in the cocoon or something

The truth is better then the lie, you just can’t see that yet

Looking forward to your next field report, you better make one!

Biggus

Thanks for your reply. I think you're right. I tend to rush things when I first start, thinking everything will naturally fall into place as long as I put in enough effort, but things ALWAYS get put into perspective almost immediately afterward.

Yesterday I tried to approach 5 women while on a little walk around to see what other spots were around my house, but I couldn't even get to approach 1 (moving sets are really hard, aren't they?). Then today my date flaked (again) and I've spent all day just kinda thinking... This is gonna take a while, isn't it? I'll have to go through rejection after rejection, then maybe I get a number. Then from those numbers I have to sit through flake after flake until I get a date. And THEN I have to flawlessly execute the date in order to finally get a lay under my belt. All with zero experience with women and constant doubts about my ability to preform because I have zero experience with women.

It almost feels as if fate itself is against me. Like I have to part the oceans and change the world in order to get a lay while everyone else just exists and it happens naturally. Is there something wrong with me? Am I cursed? Are things ever gonna change? I've wondered things like this for a very long time. But I also realize that I can sit here and do nothing and have nothing change, or I can at least try and do something about it and have a slim chance at things changing for the better. Even as I am now I should at least be able to lay 1/1000, right? That much seems logically possible, so I'm putting all my faith in that number.

everyone has positive qualities, maybe your funny or your creative or your honest or compassionate these are all things that could be on the inside that you haven’t shown others because your not being authentic to yourself just yet. It takes courage to be yourself. As become more comfortable with these women, they will start to notice who you are and some of them will like who you are.

I am none of these things though... If I had qualities that were attractive to women, I wouldn't exactly still be a virgin at this point. Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those super nerdy types or anything. I'm probably just too average, don't fit in to any "archetype" and probably not exciting enough.

Though I guess the next question would be "Well have you worked to develop qualities that women would find attractive?" and well... touche. How are you supposed to become more funny or spontaneous though? How are you supposed to practice skills like that? I don't know so I haven't really developed qualities that women might find attractive and that I feel are congruent with how I see myself as a person. I can't do the alpha male stuff for example, I would cringe at myself and the delivery would not be congruent. It's why I use the materials that I do as the basis for my ideas about seduction. They just feel like I could use them being congruent with who I am.

The truth is better then the lie, you just can’t see that yet

There's no way that telling a woman that I'm a 23 year old virgin isn't met with a "" followed by a "Yeah, I've gotta go..."


The closest she will ever get to the truth is me not saying anything about my history at all...

Looking forward to your next field report, you better make one!

Definitely! Once I gather the guts enough to actually make a decent approach, I'll put it over there.

 

[CaligoTheCoward]

CaligoTheCoward said:

My fundies are just barely passable, I don't make much money or have many material items

You don't need money to get laid, that's a myth. I picked up just as many or maybe even more girls when i was dead broke, than when I was financially successful.

Oh yeah I figured as much, I was just saying that I really didn't have anything that a girl might find attractive. I always thought it was obvious that you didn't really need to be rich because poor people seem to have the most sex despite the fact that they have no money. I do think it helps of course, but it isn't necessary. You do need SOMETHING though, be it charisma, good looks, status, power, etc etc and I have like MAYBE a slither of good looks (I certainly do not compare to tik tok pretty boys).

I don't think I would be in this situation if I really did have good looks though, so maybe I don't really? Honestly don't know what to believe at this point.

100 approaches doesn't mean 100 failures.

Maybe you get ignored a few times. But then there will be that one girl that smiles at you. Even if you don't get her number, this will make you want to go on. I'm still not at a point where I'm getting phone numbers or lays, but I know I'm on the right path because I can make girls happy with a sincere compliment or a simple "hi"!

Yeah, I can't look at it in terms of success or failure, can I? That sort of mindset might be toxic. Both success and failure are nothing but lessons learned. I know l should look at it like that, but old habits die hard. I'm not sure if I can handle being ignored more than a few times though (I'll want to take a long walk off a short bridge) and I'm not sure if a nice smile would make up for it... You sure are mentally tough.

Come to think of it, I don't really give out complements often. Maybe I should do that more too.

Anyways, thanks for your reply! I'm definitely going for the phone number next time, so if you're gunning for that you should try it out too!

 

[Conquistador]

I always thought it was obvious that you didn't really need to be rich because poor people seem to have the most sex despite the fact that they have no money. I do think it helps of course, but it isn't necessary.

You do need SOMETHING though

Well, you’re more astute than a sizable fraction of the internet, so that’s a good starting point lol

 

[CaligoTheCoward]

@CaligoTheCoward if you haven't already read this: https://www.girlschase.com/content/can-you-approach-4-girls-day-30-days



Absolutely correct. I've gotten laid with $500 to my name and no job, in a boat so small you could barely swing a cat. As long as you have great style and personality, a cast iron frame, and an irrepressible joie de vivre, there are always women who need just the kind of experience you have on offer.

So this is what a powerful seducer looks like... Unfortunately, I have none of those things. My style is... getting a little better but consists of one outfit that I bought like a couple of weeks ago, I have as much charisma as a block of clay, my frame is cast playdough (I still don't know what frame really means, but I am convinced of things rather easily so I think that means my frame is weak?) and an irrepressible depression. Any takers...?

But on a more serious note, I understand most of this takes some time to build up. Right now I'm at a transition phase and it seems kinda impossible right now, and I'm starting to accept that it's a numbers game for me at the moment. I gave the article a read, and 4 women a day seems like a tall order... But they say that if you shoot for the moon, even if you miss you'll land among the stars. I couldn't even approach 1 yesterday because of my lack of openers, but if I gather a few stock ones I might be able to do 4. I'll aim for 4 tomorrow! Thanks for your reply!

 

[CaligoTheCoward]

Todd Macfarlane is an all-time fan favorite author and comic book artist.
He has the best selling Spider-Man comic of all-time, plus the best selling single comic outside of Marvel and DC (Spawn #1).
The guy is a beast!

Before he rose stardom, he wanted to play baseball. Thing is, he busted his ankle and had to find a new gig.
As a broke ass young man, he started from the bottom, working two entry level jobs who paid him just enough to survive.
Because he's always been an avid comic book fan, one day he discovered that a successful
comic book artist lived right next to him, and went to ask him for guidance.
After that he decided to be a comic book artist, and started to draw at nights on his spare time.

Finding it to be better money, he plunged all his energy into perfecting his craft.
Then he made a list of all successful editors form the major comic companies, and started to send his work to them.
He spent one and a half year being rejected non-stop.

BUT some people replied back to him, giving him guidance and some pointers to work on.
And so he did!
Long story short, he got some breaks into the industry and started to be noticed.
Finally he landed a big gig and started to draw the coveted Spider-Man regular issue.
(BTW, using his style, not the Marvel style who at that time was becoming boring and old).
His signature Spider-Man quickly became a huge hit!
Fast forward a couple of months, he got complete control over the new revamped issue (art and story)!!!
It ended-up as the #5 most selled comic of all-time.

100 rejections is NOTHING my man.
There are guys who get that in a day (especially sales guys), but don't bulge one millimeter in perfecting
their craft and going after what they want.
Hope that inspires you.

Yeah, this is inspiring. I appreciate this a lot. You know, it's strange. I'm usually always alone when working out my own issues and problems with whatever I might be going though, but now it's like I have people rooting for me and making encouraging posts like this. Its a strange feeling... But not a bad one at all.

Lets just hope I can develop enough grit as Mr. McFarlane though, no way I'm going to be able to keep going after a year and a half of rejections... I wonder what his secret is? I've actually always been fairly bad at everything that I've done. So much so that it affected me greatly at one point. I wondered why I was so bad at everything I did, but eventually I realized that I never really put in the time to master anything. I tried, but I'm never consistent with my practice, always jumping back and forth to the next thing, never putting in the time to practice as much as I should because practice tends to be too boring. If I can get enough dedication to do stuff like this guy, maybe I'll stand a chance out there.

 

[Will_V]

@CaligoTheCoward you've got some pretty negative outlooks there my friend. None of that is going to help you with seduction - remember seduction is primarily emotional contagion:

1. She feels a certain way when you are there
2. She is captivated by what she feels around you
3. She invests in you to stay in those emotions

Most of what she feels, at least initially, is emotional contagion - she samples your reality and is either pulled toward you or pushed away from you based on what that feels like to her.

It's extremely hard to seduce while in a negative state. A seducer's primary offer is 'live in my world and you will feel free and happy'. Does that sound like something that can happen when you think very little of yourself and your efforts?

My style is... getting a little better but consists of one outfit that I bought like a couple of weeks ago

Style is not about lots of money or loads of clothes. Back when I was broke I had one good pair of jeans, one good denim shirt, and a pair of boots. All round maybe $200. Nothing fancy, but not bland.

, I have as much charisma as a block of clay, my frame is cast playdough (I still don't know what frame really means, but I am convinced of things rather easily so I think that means my frame is weak?) and an irrepressible depression. Any takers...?

Yeah this attitude is not going to help you. I feel for you if you're depressed but if it's something serious it's going to need dealing with before you'll be able to consistently hook girls. If it's not something serious, and you are simply attached to the idea of having a glum attitude it's going to have to change.

But on a more serious note, I understand most of this takes some time to build up. Right now I'm at a transition phase and it seems kinda impossible right now, and I'm starting to accept that it's a numbers game for me at the moment. I gave the article a read, and 4 women a day seems like a tall order... But they say that if you shoot for the moon, even if you miss you'll land among the stars. I couldn't even approach 1 yesterday because of my lack of openers, but if I gather a few stock ones I might be able to do 4. I'll aim for 4 tomorrow! Thanks for your reply!

Treat it as a process, get good at step 1, then good at step 2, etc and in no time you'll be off to the races.

What do you mean by lack of openers? The best way to this day I have found to open a girl is to think of whatever you genuinely like about her (there's always something right, or you wouldn't have opened) and compliment it, even just 'hey I like your X'. Girls always know when compliments are genuine. If it's her butt then just compliment her jeans, she'll get the idea.

What's more important than what you say is a smile, good eye contact, and an easygoing attitude that will not react negatively if she isn't interested. After all it's just practice.

From there you can simply introduce yourself and ask her name, then ask what she's up to, etc, just have a normal conversation.

 

[gameboy]

Hey man you're 23? You've got all the time in the world! I'm 49 and starting out with cold approach...

I do admit I have experience with girls. I've been in several multi year relationships and had my share of one night stands too. So I more or less have an idea when it's going somewhere with a girl I talk to and when it isn't.

What I wanted to tell you though is this: Don't see a rejected approach as a failure. See it as a success! You approached, and even if you just said the opener that's 100% more than you were able to do before Her reaction is out of your control. Some will like you, more girls probably won't.

I'm starting to love the process. Even if I just say hi to a girl and she rolls her eyes, I chuckle to myself and think it's funny. And if she smiles and says hi back... it's a great feeling!

Next step is to have an actual conversation. I've been able to do that a couple of times now and it feels awesome! Even though I didn't get her number. I got one Instagram so far but she flaked. But it's SO cool to be able to talk to a random girl you just cold approached, and connect and laugh with her for 30 minutes or an hour!

Next step is gonna be taking numbers and actually going on dates (or maybe even SDL if I get lucky and strike a home run). I haven't done that yet, from cold approach, but I probably will soon. And in no way do I see the approaches I did so far as a failure. On the contrary! The last month or six weeks, since I've been doing this (see my journal if you want to know more) have been one of the best times of my life!

 

[Mr.SocialAcceptableHarem]

I am none of these things though

Nonesense, I can already tell by writing style that you are creative and you have a sense of humor. Start with that, two definitely attractive qualities when expressed confidently.

I'm going to stop giving you compliments if you keep tearing yourself down, I don't want to be like a mom who gives compliments no matter what, I'm trying to be realistic with you.

Yesterday I tried to approach 5 women while on a little walk around to see what other spots were around my house, but I couldn't even get to approach 1 (moving sets are really hard, aren't they?). Then today my date flaked (again) and I've spent all day just kinda thinking... This is gonna take a while, isn't it? I'll have to go through rejection after rejection, then maybe I get a number. Then from those numbers I have to sit through flake after flake until I get a date. And THEN I have to flawlessly execute the date in order to finally get a lay under my belt. All with zero experience with women and constant doubts about my ability to preform because I have zero experience with women.

Think of the inverse, "Wow, there are guys that seamlessly attractive women into their bed, and ther'yre not even trying, it's a naturally process to them. If I can just figure out what they are doing, and do it their way while doing it my way with my own style, I will also seamlessly attract women"

Because you are right, for unattractive men, it is like pulling teeth getting women to spend time with you. But it's only because a few of their habits are ruining things for them, it's not because they are defective or have some character flaw, once you change those habits (eat healthy/work out/lift weights, Take up more space physically (body language), learn how to change vocal tonality, remove negative beliefs etc.) all these things are pieces of the puzzle. So don't think "How can I get laid" think "How can I be a guy that naturally gets laid" what would this future me do?"

I am none of these things though... If I had qualities that were attractive to women, I wouldn't exactly still be a virgin at this point. Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those super nerdy types or anything. I'm probably just too average, don't fit in to any "archetype" and probably not exciting enough.

Though I guess the next question would be "Well have you worked to develop qualities that women would find attractive?" and well... touche. How are you supposed to become more funny or spontaneous though? How are you supposed to practice skills like that? I don't know so I haven't really developed qualities that women might find attractive and that I feel are congruent with how I see myself as a person. I can't do the alpha male stuff for example, I would cringe at myself and the delivery would not be congruent. It's why I use the materials that I do as the basis for my ideas about seduction. They just feel like I could use them being congruent with who I am.

I think the problem Is your thinking like "How can I become someone else, that women will want to fuck?"

I think all of this negative self talk is preventing you from seeing your positive qualities, it's covering them up, and even if your right, you must have at least positive qualities in potentiation, like they could be expressed but your too shy to be that way

remember seduction is primarily emotional contagion:

This resonated with me so much!

The past couple positive interactions I've had with women, I was feeling' myself and they could just pick up on that. I definitely do emotional contagion with my friends, like I'll create the vibe and get shit started. My next date is gonna be so lit, now that I'm better at doing this.
I definitely think it came about with just being more comfortable with myself, not feeling constrained to peoples expectations. Very hard to do if your not actually feeling it, but I've done that too, I don't think I'll do that again because just better to go home if you feel like shit, getting rejected multiple times when your already having a bad day is one of the worst feelings

@CaligoTheCoward I'm not gonna give you anymore compliments because I don't think that kinda motivation gets through to you. Just remember, one... approach... at... a... time!

Best,

Matt

 

[CaligoTheCoward]

@CaligoTheCoward you've got some pretty negative outlooks there my friend. None of that is going to help you with seduction - remember seduction is primarily emotional contagion:

1. She feels a certain way when you are there
2. She is captivated by what she feels around you
3. She invests in you to stay in those emotions

Most of what she feels, at least initially, is emotional contagion - she samples your reality and is either pulled toward you or pushed away from you based on what that feels like to her.

It's extremely hard to seduce while in a negative state. A seducer's primary offer is 'live in my world and you will feel free and happy'. Does that sound like something that can happen when you think very little of yourself and your efforts?

"Seduction is emotional contagion", huh... Okay, I can start looking at it like this. I always looked at it as a big bag of tricks I could use to make a woman sleep with me, but looking at it more closely, charismatic guys always make people feel a little warm right? Maybe that's why they get women despite not looking the best or whatever. If I can make them feel the way that they want to feel, then the whole process will be super easy! The only problem is trying to figure out what they want to feel... Or how she should feel around me. Or what I should be feeling so she could be feeling the same thing. For now, A more carefree attitude is all I can do.

Yeah this attitude is not going to help you. I feel for you if you're depressed but if it's something serious it's going to need dealing with before you'll be able to consistently hook girls. If it's not something serious, and you are simply attached to the idea of having a glum attitude it's going to have to change.

I'm neither depressed nor do I have an attachment to a certain type of outlook, it's just the way that I see things. Granted I was half joking. It's less depression, more... self-loathing? It's hard to explain. I do a great job of hiding it from others irl though! I only ever mention these things here because it's semi-anonymous. People irl don't even figure that I'm still a virgin because I've become pretty good at lying about it over the years.

What do you mean by lack of openers? The best way to this day I have found to open a girl is to think of whatever you genuinely like about her (there's always something right, or you wouldn't have opened) and compliment it, even just 'hey I like your X'. Girls always know when compliments are genuine. If it's her butt then just compliment her jeans, she'll get the idea.

Ahaha, I'll keep the jeans complement in mind. But I needed openers because I didn't have the guts to approach. I'd think "Uhhh what do I say?" and that would be an excuse to not approach. I don't want those excuses so I decided to come up with a few openers before hand so I didn't have to worry about what to say AND the fact that I actually have to work up the guts to say it, all I had to do was work up the guts to say it. Half of the battle is already won knowing what to say beforehand imo. Not that it worked the second time I went out... I'll give myself an A for effort though.

That being said, a lot of the girls I saw weren't necessarily supermodel gorgeous, nor did they have good fashion, but I was attracted to them nonetheless. I can't just walk up to them and say "Hey I thought you were cute lol", right? They probably wouldn't believe it and brush me off. I'd probably have the same reaction, so maybe this is just projection.

Anyways, thanks for your reply! I think I'll definitely start looking at this as "emotional contagion". I'll keep it in mind especially for tonight and tomorrow. I'll have to think about how I'm going to foster that emotion to be so strong that it might be felt by someone else.

 

[CaligoTheCoward]

Hey man you're 23? You've got all the time in the world! I'm 49 and starting out with cold approach...

I know I do rationally, but I can't help but to look at it like I've wasted my youth. And for what? Video games that I'm not even good at? A ridiculous amount of porn (and a collection that is quite exquisite if I do say so myself)? Random youtube videos on lore of games I'll never play and primitive mud pools I'll never build? I'll be 24 next year and I'm going to have nothing to show for it. Still virgin. Still in the same place I was 5 years ago.

People my age are moving up in life, finally finding their footing, getting careers, generally living their best years right out of college. Meanwhile I'm still leeching off family, struggling to learn the same lessons the rest of my peers would learn in highschool. I'm a bonafide loser. And that frustrates me. It's even MORE frustrating to know that I really have no one to blame but myself. A scapegoat would be really nice. And the MOST frustrating part on top of all that is that I tried to change it back then too! No matter what I did, no matter what advice I followed, nothing worked for me and I fell right back into the pit. I can't blame other people's advice because they meant well. I can't blame the video games or the porn or the youtube because I didn't have to indulge in that. It's all MY fault. That is why I'm so frustrated at myself for being in this spot at 23.

I'll be in my mid 20s next year and I'll have zero stories to tell because I spent all of my early 20s inside. I'll be like a geezer in my eyes...

What I wanted to tell you though is this: Don't see a rejected approach as a failure. See it as a success! You approached, and even if you just said the opener that's 100% more than you were able to do before Her reaction is out of your control. Some will like you, more girls probably won't.

Very true! If I had the guts to approach, I'd be through the moon... And yeah, for me right now it's strictly a numbers game I'm realizing. I should just approach as much as I can until I find someone who is at least receptive. That might take a while, but I can be happy with the little steps. I do get frustrated when I don't move at all though, like now.

Next step is to have an actual conversation. I've been able to do that a couple of times now and it feels awesome! Even though I didn't get her number. I got one Instagram so far but she flaked. But it's SO cool to be able to talk to a random girl you just cold approached, and connect and laugh with her for 30 minutes or an hour!

Next step is gonna be taking numbers and actually going on dates (or maybe even SDL if I get lucky and strike a home run). I haven't done that yet, from cold approach, but I probably will soon. And in no way do I see the approaches I did so far as a failure. On the contrary! The last month or six weeks, since I've been doing this (see my journal if you want to know more) have been one of the best times of my life!

Has anyone ever told you that your enthusiasm is contagious? Because your enthusiam is contagious. I'll work at it too! Hopefully I can get to a 5 minute conversation... I've gotta keep the bar low since I keep managing to miss it. Thanks for your reply!

 

[CaligoTheCoward]

Nonesense, I can already tell by writing style that you are creative and you have a sense of humor. Start with that, two definitely attractive qualities when expressed confidently.

I'm going to stop giving you compliments if you keep tearing yourself down, I don't want to be like a mom who gives compliments no matter what, I'm trying to be realistic with you.

I love compliments! I hardly ever get them so you can keep them coming, I won't mind! But the way I see other people see me doesn't really align with the complements I'm receiving here. I can appear this way since I'm relaxed and have time to think about what I'll say, but irl and on the fly i can be a bit dry. I really do appreciate the complements though! Biggus dickus: pussy mom <3

Ok ok I'll stop LMFAO sorry that one was too funny.

Think of the inverse, "Wow, there are guys that seamlessly attractive women into their bed, and ther'yre not even trying, it's a naturally process to them. If I can just figure out what they are doing, and do it their way while doing it my way with my own style, I will also seamlessly attract women"

Because you are right, for unattractive men, it is like pulling teeth getting women to spend time with you. But it's only because a few of their habits are ruining things for them, it's not because they are defective or have some character flaw, once you change those habits (eat healthy/work out/lift weights, Take up more space physically (body language), learn how to change vocal tonality, remove negative beliefs etc.) all these things are pieces of the puzzle. So don't think "How can I get laid" think "How can I be a guy that naturally gets laid" what would this future me do?"

I think you're right with this line of thinking. It would be much easier to see it in person than to read about it though. I thought bars would be a good way to learn, but I've really just ran into people on dates when I've went, or aggressive old dudes on old ladies that one time (it was disturbing). For now, I can only make vague guesses on what the vibe is like.

I think the problem Is your thinking like "How can I become someone else, that women will want to fuck?"

I think all of this negative self talk is preventing you from seeing your positive qualities, it's covering them up, and even if your right, you must have at least positive qualities in potentiation, like they could be expressed but your too shy to be that way

I dunno, I just feel like if I had positive qualities then I wouldn't be struggling with women. Well, I won't really know until I get out there one way or another, right? My most troublesome qualities are my lack of grit and guts, it seems...

I'll probably see something I can capitalize on after I get a few approaches in. Thanks for your reply!

 

[CaligoTheCoward]

A brief update on what's been going on:
Monday - Went out on a walk to hopefully approach a few women. 0 approaches. Figured I should get some canned openers for next time so I wouldn't worry about what to say and only have to worry about working up the guts to say it.
Tuesday - Was supposed to go on a date, but date flaked. Had a "fuck this shit" day and did nothing.
Wednesday - Went out shopping with some canned openers. I was going to use: 1. "That jacket looks warm, can I have it?" 2. "I can tell you're putting a lot of thought into this decision." (I found that one from the t&t board) 3. (The forbidden) "Hey, I saw you from over there and thought you were cute. I'm Calligo" (I would rather inhale water for 4-6 minutes than EVER use this). I ended up having at least 2 oppurtunities to open, couldn't work up the guts. I figured I should try and open men first from now on since my biggest issue was worrying if I was bothering the other shoppers by saying anything.
Thursday - I ended up helping my mom with something all day and only managed to squeeze in like 2 conversations with random dudes. I felt the same sort of resistance that I felt trying to approach the women, so I'm certain that this will help with getting me used to talking to women I don't know too.

Today, I started to think about my success rate and if this was even possible. I reasoned that if I had SOMEONE on the side, then I would be much better off mentally. I wondered how I could do it, and I realized that I needed a certain type of woman: a DESPERATE woman. If I can find one of those, then I can practice my game without fear of failure while also having someone to fuck on the side so I'm not constantly pissy all the time. Then I thought about where I could even find them. I raked my brain until I could come up with one thing. Volunteering. I mean, nightclubs and stuff are pointless because there's 50 other dudes waiting to bang the woman you're talking to. Shopping and walking is always gonna be a toss-up, but who the hell volunteers and has a social life? It's perfect!

But THEN I thought about the people that actually volunteer. It's either gonna be old ladies or highschool students. I don't think I want either of those... And I'll be irate if I get there to rake leaves for the homeless or some shit and it's just little kimberly and whatever-leigh talking about how handsome jake looked when they all took their senior photos together. No thanks. I'll need to find some other place where these type of women congregate. That would make things much easier for me I think. I'll keep on thinking about it.

Now, the idea for tonight was to go out, but once again I should've gotten home a little earlier... I don't think now's the time to be starting the night. I wonder what times are good? There's always tomorrow so I'm not too worried. My plan for tonight, or i guess tomorrow now, is to follow the KISS principle. KISS stands for Keep It Simple, Stupid. And I am a certified idiot, so I'll be keeping it as simple as possible. I'll simply haphazardly open (I might actually be able to do this since night game has been much easier so far than day game), build some basic rapport, then haphazardly escalate as far as I can possibly go. I know something about isolation and bouncing and compliance off the top of my head, so I'll mix those in there too somewhere.

It seems a little half assed (it is), but I do need to keep things simple so that I can understand them as much as possible. Also my main issue before was that I never escalated since sex talk makes me uncomfortable and a little miffed since I've never had sex. I usually either avoid it or change the subject when it comes up. I feel like maybe this is where my seduction is lacking (if you can even call it that at this point...) and I should be stressing this as much as possible. I'll sexualize the conversation as soon as I get the oppurtunity. And I think I might be able to use my virginity to my advantage. I'll say the most out there shit, and hopefully that makes it seem like I'm just fucking around. That way when I say something I don't seem incongruent and I also don't reveal the fact that I'm actually a virgin. I don't really know how to have a "man to woman", and it is going to be very hard since I legitimately cannot see myself as a grown man, but I can just try to fake it until it works. Hopefully this is enough...

 

[Will_V]

"Seduction is emotional contagion", huh... Okay, I can start looking at it like this. I always looked at it as a big bag of tricks I could use to make a woman sleep with me, but looking at it more closely, charismatic guys always make people feel a little warm right? Maybe that's why they get women despite not looking the best or whatever. If I can make them feel the way that they want to feel, then the whole process will be super easy! The only problem is trying to figure out what they want to feel... Or how she should feel around me. Or what I should be feeling so she could be feeling the same thing. For now, A more carefree attitude is all I can do.

That's a good start. Emotions are naturally contagious, you don't have to figure out how to communicate them when you genuinely feel them.

The problem with many guys is that they don't really know what they feel - their minds are filled with logical conundrums about perceived reality, while their subconscious is meanwhile expressing a torrent of negativity and anxiety out through their posture, mannerisms, muscular tension, tone of voice, and unconscious internal dialogue. And because of this, when they try to appear friendly, warm, seductive etc, it is only their thoughts that change, while the picture that a woman sees does not change.

The utility of meditation is to bring everything into alignment - the experience of one's mind, the experience of one's body, one's overall perspective on reality, and reality itself. That is what presence is.

I'm neither depressed nor do I have an attachment to a certain type of outlook, it's just the way that I see things. Granted I was half joking. It's less depression, more... self-loathing? It's hard to explain. I do a great job of hiding it from others irl though! I only ever mention these things here because it's semi-anonymous. People irl don't even figure that I'm still a virgin because I've become pretty good at lying about it over the years.

Yeah, that's a sort of defense mechanism. And it's not entirely bad as it has some ability to help you in temporary ways. But the subconscious mind cannot be lied to - in my opinion (and experience) the primary cause of anxiety, anger, and self-loathing is cognitive dissonance between the persona you try to hide yourself in, and the reality of what you know, deep down, that you are right now. It is essentially a response to the pressure created by a catastrophic failure of self-expression.

Ahaha, I'll keep the jeans complement in mind. But I needed openers because I didn't have the guts to approach. I'd think "Uhhh what do I say?" and that would be an excuse to not approach. I don't want those excuses so I decided to come up with a few openers before hand so I didn't have to worry about what to say AND the fact that I actually have to work up the guts to say it, all I had to do was work up the guts to say it. Half of the battle is already won knowing what to say beforehand imo. Not that it worked the second time I went out... I'll give myself an A for effort though.

No, the battle is not half won by knowing what to say. Most of the time I don't even know what I'm going to say until I open my mouth.

The battle is half won when you release the self-expression that you have, until now, denied yourself. It may come out weak, messy, contiminated by anxiety and fear, etc, but cleaning that up is the other half of the battle that is much easier and can only begin once the first thing occurs.

That being said, a lot of the girls I saw weren't necessarily supermodel gorgeous, nor did they have good fashion, but I was attracted to them nonetheless. I can't just walk up to them and say "Hey I thought you were cute lol", right? They probably wouldn't believe it and brush me off. I'd probably have the same reaction, so maybe this is just projection.

Yes you can say that. I've said it more times than I could count, and it isn't a bad opener - although it tends to show a lot of interest off the bat which can then cause issues with frame control. But it is perfectly fine to practice with.

Anyways, thanks for your reply! I think I'll definitely start looking at this as "emotional contagion". I'll keep it in mind especially for tonight and tomorrow. I'll have to think about how I'm going to foster that emotion to be so strong that it might be felt by someone else.

This is not how emotion works. Emotion does not become clear to others, or contagious to them, by making it 'strong'. It becomes that way by clearing out the noise of other emotions, and cleaning out your body language from the effects of anxiety, fear, self-loathing, etc.

A drop of water hitting the ground is very easy to hear in silence, but in the middle of a crowd of yelling people, it is completely lost. Most people's internal dialogue is like the yelling of a crowd, all kinds of thoughts popping around, fighting eachother for attention, and making a tremendous noise, and this means that when someone looks at them, they see nothing clear or worthwhile paying attention to.

But when your mind is completely silent, your body is at rest and ready to express the subtlest notes of your emotional state, and your attention is floating tranquilly in the space in front of you, everything you feel and everything you do resonates like a drum through the attention of others and into their consciousness.

 

[CaligoTheCoward]

It's been a while since I've posted. I decided to not post on here until there was something to talk about so I didn't muck up the thread anymore... After new years, I fell into a bit of a cycle of depression after I went to a new years event and I got ignored twice. The same thing I've experienced before, just a little stronger because I put in an honest effort. Felt like it was all pointless and things of that nature. But I managed to get it together again eventually.

I've gotten a few more approaches under my belt too, but nothing too groundbreaking. I did figure out a few things though. For one, I have approach anxiety. I didn't realize this at all at first. I also went on my first date a couple of days ago with a girl from work, which I was... split about (I wonder if I can make a field report about this? But this isn't really the field at all since it falls under more social circle right? I'm not sure.). I'll go more into detail later, but I found that I also have escalation anxiety? Is this common? I really wasn't sure what I should do next while I was there, and I was a massively nervous every step of the way... I think I managed to hide the nervousness in my expressions, but I think it might have shown in my actions. In any case, when we went to work again it wasn't awkward and she was still the same, so maybe it wasn't all too bad? I don't know what I'm doing...

Aside from that, I've gotten a few more things to work on. One is conversation. Most of the time when I approached I didn't really know what else to say. I guess having clear goals on how the conversation should go would help, but I don't know how to move the conversation there. I want to get a number close but the transitions just don't come out naturally most of the time. I also want to work a little more on my style which has kind of been lacking too. Another thing is escalation. I know very little about sexual escalation. Maybe it's more correct to say that I don't grasp it. I know that incidental touch brakes the barrier and that much is fairly easy. Anything other than that makes me anxious. I'm not too used to being touched, so most of the time I'm not too comfortable touching others either.

And aside from physical escalation, I have no idea what to do on the verbal side either. Am I supposed to say the same things that I hear out of movies? Am I supposed to hint at it? Say it directly? What am I missing here? I'm sure I need a certain amount of sexual tension, but once again, I can't seem to understand how to create it.

On the bright side, it seems like I've come to understand flirting a lot better. To a few girls now I'm a little more flirty than I used to be. Of course, this is in social circle so it's not the same with strangers. I'm a little more stiff there. But I'm definitely in a better spot than I was before. I should just try to understand it a little better. I'd seen it being done and I could replicate it fairly well, but I don't really understand why I say certain things in certain contexts, which could make my delivery off.

And that's something I've noticed too. I don't have anyone to watch and learn from. I know for SURE that if I had a person like that I would never have had problems like that. I learn much faster from examples. But oh well. Experience is the best teacher anyway and the only thing I would be doing by having someone to watch is reducing the time it takes to get there.

So about my date. It was with a girl at work I wasn't particularly interested in, but who seemed to have high interest. I tested out some things on her that I read and they seemed to have worked. She flaked twice before, but I decided that this one time I'll just be a bit more assertive and tried to go somewhere more simple with her. So I asked her out to a movie. I later learned that this is a horrible idea, but at the time it seemed like the best thing to do. She accepted and at first I thought it would've been best to go somewhere close to my place so it would be easier to close, but she was almost an hour away from the place that I suggested so I just went somewhere more close to her. Almost 30 minutes away. In short, logistics were already looking horrible. So we get there and find some interesting looking movie because she was late which I figured she would be if she showed at all. And then we go in the theater and things are looking alright, but she's kind of semi rejecting my attempts at conversation? I can't put my finger on it, but something was a little strange. Either way my initial attempts at escalation weren't bad and I ended up putting my arm around her, and she was smiling for a bit, then broke out. I had no clue what I should do next. The rest of the date seemed a little awkward but the movie was unexpectedly pretty good so I just went and watched that while making the occasional teasing quip. I figured I should put my hand on her leg or something, but I was experiencing some anxiety at doing that and ended up not going for it. And so the date ended uneventfully. While we were leaving I asked what she was doing after this, and chickened out on asking to head back to her place. It sounded kind of awkward in my eyes. So I hugged her goodbye and we went our separate ways.

I thought the aftermath of this would be horrible and I continued to beat up on myself for not only making the first date a fucking movie (please do not do this I had no idea at the time but it's actually really bad) but also the fact that I could not overcome the anxiety. I tried to look at the bright side and celebrate the fact that I actually had my first date. So I thought things would be horribly awkward at work. And I was... seemingly wrong? She seemed a little more warm or something? Eager to touch me and stuff. I guess she was always kind of flirty, but this to me means that I didn't horribly ruin my chances. I think I'll try to escalate properly next time.