A tale of 2 naturals, their styles and the women they get

[Razorjack]

This is based on some exchanges with @Skills and @ieatapples from the "No Birthday Wishes - Should I Be Concerned?" thread.

Not wanting to derail that thread, I thought I'd start a new one.

Sidenote: This is a slightly advanced topic for those that want something more flexible than just a FWB relationship with women

This is a tale of 2 naturals:

1. Razorjack (me 15 years ago): Mark Ruffalo look alike with focus on business less so on work-life balance, muscular/athletic but could stand to lose 10 kg but exuded "I'm not Mr. Right, I'm Mr. Right NOW" e.g. LOVER with zero hint of provider
2. M-natural (good friend of mine): Good looking dude, in excellent shape, plays a lot of sport, has a body like a personal trainer, has the best work-life balance out of any one you'll ever meet. Exuded "I'm a lover as well as provider" in equal amounts

Styles:
Razorjack style was what others would call super smooth, super calibrated, sexual aura, very direct.

M-natural's style is very laid back, quite smooth, empathetic, neutral (not direct and not indirect)

The women we attracted:
Razorjack - The girls were sexually attracted immediately and were interested in wild sex but had very little interest in something more serious much less long term relationship. My wife told me that she knew I wasn't boyfriend/marriage material when we first met.

If I wanted something more serious, I needed to "pursue" them and show them that I was interested in more than just sex. I could have multiple girls in rotation and have them compete for me, but as I said girls rarely pursued me for something more serious than sex / FWB.

M-natural - Girls would throw themselves at him as they saw their "ultimate dream guy" in him, sexually attractive but also long term relationship / boyfriend material. Almost like a trophy boyfriend (similar to how rich guys get trophy wives)

Different markets:
This was the interesting bit, in the Swedish city we were living in, I would do better than 99.9% of the guys there, but M-natural would blow me out of the water. He would probably do better than me in Sweden in general as he would have multiple hot girls interested in him every time we went out. I got more than my fair share of girls, but like I said, they weren't interested in anything more than just sex with me where as girls wanted both sex and a relationship from him.

Outside of Sweden, I would blow him out of the water as he was out of his comfort zone, had language barriers and a style specifically for Swedish women.

M-natural had a game that most guys here would be extremely envious of, not only did he pick up women for SNL but he got into relationships with them where they would go out and pick up other hot women together for 3-somes, 4-somes. He also had the choice of whether he wanted a long-term relationship with these women or go out together to pick up new women for 3-somes or dump them altogether to go out & pick up new women by himself.

So what is the point of this post?

It is not as black and white as most here think that you have to give off a lover vibe. M-natural would give off (unintentionally) a lover/provider vibe that gave him much more flexibility than I had.

What I learned from him was how to develop and add that provider side, which have me more flexible interactions and options with the girls that were interested in me.

 

[Troy]

you have some good points @Razorjack the lover vibe is very important to frame the relationship the right way

 

[Skills]

you have some good points @Razorjack the lover vibe is very important to frame the relationship the right way

now you are getting it....

M-natural

(good friend of mine): Good looking dude, in excellent shape, plays a lot of sport, has a body like a personal trainer, has the best work-life balance out of any one you'll ever meet. Exuded "I'm a lover as well as provider" in equal amounts

 

[Velasco]

Girls would throw themselves at him as they saw their "ultimate dream guy" in him, sexually attractive but also long term relationship / boyfriend material

What is the appeal with girls wanting you for a LTR straight off the gate, Vs delaying it (after 3-6 months of just fucking)?

If its pursuing threesomes with her, that's as easy as fucking a bisexual girl. No need to be viewed "relationship material" for that

 

[Razorjack]

What is the appeal with girls wanting you for a LTR straight off the gate, Vs delaying it (after 3-6 months of just fucking)?

If its pursuing threesomes with her, that's as easy as fucking a bisexual girl. No need to be viewed "relationship material" for that

As I wrote in the OP:

"Sidenote: This is a slightly advanced topic for those that want something more flexible than just a FWB relationship with women"

Believe it or not there are guys who are interested in more than just sex with girls. This may not be relevant to you or Skills or Teevster right now, but maybe in a later phase in life.

I just happen to be in an unusual situation where I knew several naturals like this that I learned a lot from and didn't see anything like this on the forums.

EDIT: Also M-natural also attracted another subset of women that I didn't e.g. very good looking women that had many different men already interested in them but they themselves were interested in more than just sex with guys and rarely, if ever, had one night stands.

 

[Velasco]

No I understood you.

I want to know the appeal of having her view you as LTR material the first night she meets you.

You wrote, that the benefit is she goes with you, to pursue 3-4-somes.

I wrote that, that is possible even without being viewed as LTR material the first night. So that wouldn't give LTR material guy an edge.

Any other benefits? lol

 

[Velasco]

they themselves were interested in more than just sex with guys.

Have you never experienced a girl wanting an LTR with you after initially only viewing you as a ONS guy only?

 

[Razorjack]

No I understood you.

I want to know the appeal of having her view you as LTR material the first night she meets you.

You wrote, that the benefit is she goes with you, to pursue 3-4-somes.

I wrote that, that is possible even without being viewed as LTR material the first night. So that wouldn't give LTR material guy an edge.

Any other benefits? lol

No, what I wrote was that the benefit it gives you is more flexibility. And I wrote that M-natural could turn the relationship into whatever he wanted, in this case to pursue 3-4 somes, (as opposed to just an LTR).

Pursiung 3-4 somes, had nothing to do with her viewing him as LTR material off the bat. Nowhere did I write that either, just that M-natural could do that even though she may have wanted a monogamous LTR.

Any other benefits?

Yes, it attracts a whole subset of women that rarely, if ever, would go for a ONS only guy. Is that benefit enough?

 

[Skills]

women that had many different men already interested in them but they themselves were interested in more than just sex with guys and rarely, if ever, had one night stands.

^ that is 95% of women in general, i am still trying to understand your point razor, you can elaborate because i am lost..

 

[Razorjack]

Have you never experienced a girl wanting an LTR with you after initially only viewing you as a ONS guy only?

Yes, a few have, but rarely was there mutual interest in LTR. I may have wanted a relationship just not with the ones that wanted an LTR with me! LOL!

But back then I couldn't attract a subset of women that would never go for a ONS guy like me, M-natural could and could have a ONS with them because they were thinking LTR with him.

 

[Razorjack]

^ that is 95% of women in general, i am still trying to understand your point razor, you can elaborate because i am lost..

Let me see if I could put this more bluntly.

It's impossible to attract every woman out there. The women that went for me back then were interested in ONS. Women that were interested in LTRs never pursued me, because I didn't give off that vibe.

I rocked with the party girls and I could get one of these (95%) on that rare occasion they were out and looking for ONS as I was the ONS/lover guy.

My point is that M-natural could attract women that were interested in an LTR or ONS or both. He then used his "game" skills to turn the interaction into a ONS (even with those that weren't interested in ONS) or whatever else he wanted from them.

In other words, he had a much broader pool of women (than I did in Sweden) attracted to him because he had both the lover and provider thing going for him where as I only had the lover thing going for me.

Hope this was clearer.

 

[Razorjack]

What is the appeal with girls wanting you for a LTR straight off the gate, Vs delaying it (after 3-6 months of just fucking)?

If its pursuing threesomes with her, that's as easy as fucking a bisexual girl. No need to be viewed "relationship material" for that

One more thing, I forgot:

To put it another way - There won't be 3-6 months of just fucking if she is looking for a relationship (not FWB) straight out of the gate but views you as a lover only.

M-natural had the ability to attract these women (the ones looking for a relationship, not FWB) but could turn it into FWB if he so chose to.

 

[Velasco]

There won't be 3-6 months of just fucking if she is looking for a relationship (not FWB) straight out of the gate but views you as a lover only

There will be if she thinks you have relationship potential via your stories, intelligence (able to teach her stuff, relate and demonstrate knowledge in things she values), romantic side (cuddling/massaging). Ya know? Showing her there's a whole nother side to you besides just being a sexual dude that likes to sleep around. That'll get her thinking (post-sex), "damn this guy might be da one!! Let me give him my number before he leaves!!"

Yes, a few have, but rarely was there mutual interest in LTR. I may have wanted a relationship just not with the ones that wanted an LTR with me! LOL!

Ouch! ....lol

 

[Skills]

Let me see if I could put this more bluntly.

It's impossible to attract every woman out there. The women that went for me back then were interested in ONS. Women that were interested in LTRs never pursued me, because I didn't give off that vibe.

I rocked with the party girls and I could get one of these (95%) on that rare occasion they were out and looking for ONS as I was the ONS/lover guy.

My point is that M-natural could attract women that were interested in an LTR or ONS or both. He then used his "game" skills to turn the interaction into a ONS (even with those that weren't interested in ONS) or whatever else he wanted from them.

In other words, he had a much broader pool of women (than I did in Sweden) attracted to him because he had both the lover and provider thing going for him where as I only had the lover thing going for me.

Hope this was clearer.

Ok now we are finding common ground, me, velasco, chase and teevester had this convo. a bit before you were a bit more active on the forum, and me and velasco were bringing up that point of how we have a problem cause our presence comes across too obvious as fuck boy type, and teevester/chase are able to go under the radar..... But yeah now i get what you are trying to convey, and yes i have also had that issue of getting nexted after ons with some girls..... But man, this has nothing to do with what i was suggesting in the other post with the kids stuff, but i get it now...

 

[Razorjack]

There will be if she thinks you have relationship potential via your stories, intelligence (able to teach her stuff, relate and demonstrate knowledge in things she values), romantic side (cuddling/massaging). Ya know? Showing her there's a whole nother side to you besides just being a sexual dude that likes to sleep around. That'll get her thinking (post-sex), "damn this guy might be da one!! Let me give him my number before he leaves!!"

Yes, which is EXACTLY what M-natural projects all of the time naturally without having to demonstrate it via stories, intelligence, etc.

I kid you not, this guy has girls approaching him during the daytime asking him for his number and a date.

I was with him and a couple of other guys at a corporate event, he was 36 at the time (same as me) and had this hot 24 year old approach him right in front of the rest of us. Months later when I asked her what happened that day, she said she saw him and decided that she wanted a relationship with him and if she didn't take the chance she might never see him again. He didn't have to qualify himself at all, it was the other way around

Also it is the girls that are chasing and calling HIM up the next day. He's never had to follow up with women for dates.

And this happens to him ON A REGULAR BASIS. Similar to what you say but the girls take it a step further pre-sex, "damn this guy IS da one!! I need to get his number before I never see him again!!"

Like I said, girls view him as a trophy boyfriend/husband the kind they want to show off to their girlfriends and family.

This happened to me at night clubs where girls would approach me for sex but was EXTREMELY rare during the daytime back then.

Ouch! ....lol

Ouch is right man! LOL!

 

[Velasco]

Months later when I asked her what happened that day, she said she saw him and decided that she wanted a relationship with him and if she didn't take the chance she might never see him again.

"date me or I'll never see you again!!" where's the flexibility in that, b?

 

[Razorjack]

Ok now we are finding common ground, me, velasco, chase and teevester had this convo. a bit before you were a bit more active on the forum, and me and velasco were bringing up that point of how we have a problem cause our presence comes across too obvious as fuck boy type, and teevester/chase are able to go under the radar..... But yeah now i get what you are trying to convey, and yes i have also had that issue of getting nexted after ons with some girls.....

But man, this has nothing to do with what i was suggesting in the other post with the kids stuff,

Yes, which is exactly why I started a new thread! LOL!

but i get it now...

Cool, I realize I have a clumsy way of expressing things because I can't tell the latest seduction theory from my elbow.

 

[Velasco]

Also it is the girls that are chasing and calling HIM up the next day. He's never had to follow up with women for dates.

I text my name, post-sex. so from a pure effort perspective, he's got me beat

Like I said, girls view him as a trophy boyfriend/husband the kind they want to show off to their girlfriends and family.

I am not sure if I would even want this haha.

 

[Razorjack]

"date me or I'll never see you again!!" where's the flexibility in that, b?

Err no, not what I meant.....

"never see him again" as in

"I need to take the chance now before the opportunity is gone and I won't know how I'll ever find him again!"

 

[Velasco]

"never see him again" as in

"I need to take the chance now before the opportunity is gone and I won't know how I'll ever find him again!"

ahhh got you now lol