Abstract question: Does non-neediness actually intimidate women

[DarkKnight]

Hi all,

Sometimes I wonder things which are more on the meta-level, this is one of those.. This is not a "how to get a certain girl" question, but rather a "how does this clock tick" question.

Usually I get gut feelings after certain encounters and like to ponder about those experiences.. but of course when you guys give cool feedback it makes it even better.

First off.. I have no idea how regular guys behave with women.. It is just a bit out of my reality to pedestalize and see women as unattainable queens. Maybe some rare cases aside, who knows? This has not always been so, but after years of game and positive feedback, this has slowly changed and become part of my character (I guess). So it is difficult for me to empathize the current trends in dating and how power dynamics really work in general.

We know that most guys are in scarcity and are generally supplicating and needy. We have, or are in the process of detraining us of those weak behaviors, this makes us ireggularities. If I understand it correct in this age guys have even become more needy than a decade ago, but I only know this from heresay. Since girls interact with guys more frequently than before (less social stigmas, social media and such) they have expectanties of how guys around them behave. Which explains the flirty girls who keep throwing signals but rarely allow you to escalate, but expect you to stick.. since every other guy tends to behave that way.

Which brings me to the following: When you are non-needy, when you can next girls since you know you can easily approach another.. Does this make us a bit more intimidating? I can imagine that girls feel that they should have a certain amount of influence over us... When you take away the influence which they are used to, does this cause them to feel less relaxed against us and make us more unattainable.. despite initial low interest from the girl.

Because more than once I am surprised when I talk up to a girl.. and am even a bit persistent but receive a cold/polite response, but nothing more.. and when I eject afterwards but remain friendly/polite/unaffected.. these girls tend to tense up during later encounters. As if they expected chasing behavior/simping.

I want to hear your experiences and if you can relate.. Also I hope for detailed responses about what goes through the mind of chicks when they encounter one non-needy.

Thanks in advance.

 

[trashKENNUT]

Which brings me to the following: When you are non-needy, when you can next girls since you know you can easily approach another.. Does this make us a bit more intimidating?

"You don't want to know" - Eric Kirby (Jurassic Park 3)

 

[Velasco]

When you take away the influence which they are used to, does this cause them to feel less relaxed against us and make us more unattainable.. despite initial low interest from the girl.

Because more than once I am surprised when I talk up to a girl.. and am even a bit persistent but receive a cold/polite response, but nothing more.. and when I eject afterwards but remain friendly/polite/unaffected.. these girls tend to tense up during later encounters. As if they expected chasing behavior/simping.

Why would they think you're unattainable now, if she wasn't interested in the first place? lol.

She's probably tense because she still feels you're trying to pick her up (she can see through "friendly" act), despite her already turned you down.

 

[DarkKnight]

Velasco I got ya, but I am mentioning girls I have truly nexted already. So you are saying they still think I am out to game them after a year or so, which explains the stiff behavior?

I am not engaging or holding convos if thats what you mean.

I am not "act"ing in this case.. not in some sort of weird denial. However I do not exclude that this girl still carries the perception that I am out to game her.

Can anyone else relate? Not strictly to this chick but in general.

 

[Velasco]

I am mentioning girls I have truly nexted already.

"You can't next girls you haven't fucked. That's her nexting you." - Tyler Durden

I am not engaging or holding convos if thats what you mean.

Then what are you doing during these later encounters?

these girls tend to tense up during later encounters.

 

[DarkKnight]

You know full well what I mean with "next" homie. I don't care that much about the semantics. No need to drive home that I didn't fuck her. I am aware.

Okay gonna give you an example.. this chick today.. I barely noticed her until I caught her staring. Then she looks away in a tense creeped out way. I was behind a laptop not stalking behind her or hovering or anything conscpicious like that. Still the moment I caught her she was tense.

An hour later I encountered her again in a place where it is no surprise I would be and I am sure she had legimitate reason to be there too.. so I kinda avoid her even until she says hi (to make it less awkward I guess), when I greet back she becomes tense again. Really awkward.

I am not actively gaming, just encountering them in a natural way.

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If I was actually still gaming them it would be clear as day for me why they act like they act and I wouldnt post this question. Im trying to understand.

 

[Velasco]

this chick today.. I barely noticed her until I caught her staring. Then she looks away in a tense creeped out way. I was behind a laptop not stalking behind her or hovering or anything conscpicious like that. Still the moment I caught her she was tense.

An hour later I encountered her again in a place where it is no surprise I would be and I am sure she had legimitate reason to be there too.. so I kinda avoid her even until she says hi (to make it less awkward I guess), when I greet back she becomes tense again. Really awkward.

This example here seems like the opposite of the one you provided in the OP. Where you tried picking up a chick, that was cold to your advances. And from then was tense around you because she thought you were still trying to make a move on her.

Here it seems like this girl she got tense because you caught her checking you out, and was like, "shit shit shit". I'm tempted to say her later meeting you up at a spot, "where it would be no surprise you would be at", counts as an overexertion. Her "hi" was because you weren't making a move on her, so she risked it by putting herself out there. When you then just said hi and didn't flirt wit her, she got all tense again, thinking maybe this was a mistake. Hence awkward.

That's my read at least. I wasn't there so idk.

 

[DarkKnight]

Hey man thanks for the input.. still I am not sure if she made an overexertion in order to allow me to game. Because of the strong initial reaction, which was polite but still a clear "I am not interested." It's weird or I am not seeing clearly. I am going to put this case in the fridge. Probably making things more complicated than it should be.


Edit:

You could just have been right... In hindsight.. this could have been an overexertion/proximity AI. I'm sure I'll encounter this one gain. I'll keep tabs on her.

In general: I am probably taking things at face value and missing escalation windows. I am not sure.

 

[DarkKnight]

I guess you are right Bacchus'. I cannot even really remember the interaction I had a year ago... Except that it was a clear no-go. At least from my standpoint/skill. So I had made point to skip this one and leave her floating.. I too see some chicks regularly like in your small town analogy so that works..

I guess I indeed need to get more reference experiences.. This one despite that I have had skipped (I still find her to be quite hot), I will keep tabs on.

-> For reference experience. To increase my sample size.

 

[Skills]

You know full well what I mean with "next" homie. I don't care that much about the semantics. No need to drive home that I didn't fuck her. I am aware.

Okay gonna give you an example.. this chick today.. I barely noticed her until I caught her staring. Then she looks away in a tense creeped out way. I was behind a laptop not stalking behind her or hovering or anything conscpicious like that. Still the moment I caught her she was tense.

An hour later I encountered her again in a place where it is no surprise I would be and I am sure she had legimitate reason to be there too.. so I kinda avoid her even until she says hi (to make it less awkward I guess), when I greet back she becomes tense again. Really awkward.

I am not actively gaming, just encountering them in a natural way.

‐---------

If I was actually still gaming them it would be clear as day for me why they act like they act and I wouldnt post this question. Im trying to understand.

you missed an easy opportunity... I would have say "are you following me" joking around...and then would have engage her in convo... In the first example as velasco said, which you missunderstood, what he is saying is that you saw her rejecting you by micro expressions of body language, so you auto rejected yourself after seeing there was nothing there, and then when you saw her again she tense up cause she may have felt you were going to engage her and did not get the hint...

 

[DarkKnight]

you missed an easy opportunity... I would have say "are you following me" joking around...and then would have engage her in convo...

I will remember it for the next time.. It probably happened because I experienced the first rejection (a year ago) as very resolute.

Also how would you otherwise describe what women experience when you are "non-needy"? I want to know the mechanics.. in detail.

 

[Skills]

I will remember it for the next time.. It probably happened because I experienced the first rejection (a year ago) as very resolute.

Also how would you otherwise describe what women experience when you are "non-needy"? I want to know the mechanics.. in detail.

I edited and reply on what i think happened...

 

[DarkKnight]

In such cases.. when do you guys choose to re-engage. In this case I dropped it and moved on..

What variables cause you guys do re-engage on a specific chick. I have a big feeling that for instance Bacchus is not going to wait for Approach invitations like this. But then again he has killer NLP/verbal arsenal which I do not.

 

[Chase]

Lots of good perspective here from @Velasco and @Bacchus.

I'd add there are a few reasons a girl will be tense around you when re-meeting you after you chatted her up before and it didn't go anywhere:

1. She's not sure if she likes you or not and is anxious about what you'll do next and how to respond
   
   
2. She's realized she actually does like you and is nervous now that you may not take another shot at her
   
   
3. She doesn't like you and is afraid if she shows you any positive attention you'll start chasing her

The way a lot of ordinary/unskilled men will approach is to gently feel a girl out for her availability, and if she says she can't meet up they go hard on breaking tension, laughing it off, telling her no problem, making small talk with her, trying to make it platonic and friendly. Take a rejection and make it all friendly again.

The way a lot of social circle seducers I've seen operate will handle rejection in social circle type situations is drop from the ask back down to flirtation... basically not give up, just move a step back. Okay, she's not ready to go out --> cycle back down to flirtation. Keep her warm, and keep flirtation up, and try again with her later. Usually you don't want to go backward, but if the ask was harmless enough and the move back to flirtation is seamless enough, she often won't totally realize what happened ("Oh wait... did he ask me out? But then we were talking as normal. Actually I'm not sure what that was?"). Which, if you know how women work, when they don't know what's going on with you, just gets them to think about you and intrigues them.

When I've had girls tense up around me after prior flirtations or date asks in social circle situations, I will usually try to invite them to something social to reset the frame. e.g., "Hey, everyone's going out to lunch, you should come with us." "Some of the folks from the office are hitting up the club this weekend. You should be there, it'll be fun." Either she'll say yes and come and the frame switches back to 'social and flirty and fun' again, or she won't, but then you're a cool guy inviting her to social things and not just trying to get her out to one-on-ones. Sometimes that'll lead to her getting flirty again; sometimes she'll just chill out and go back to being friendly/platonic but not tense.

I have noticed tension issues seem to happen most often when you've persisted too long / kept a girl stuck in a conversation too far past the point where she's comfortable, and then nothing comes of it and you leave. So you are possibly anchoring some uncomfortable feelings to yourself ("The last time I saw him he was pushy and I felt uncomfortable... I don't want to encourage him to do that again"). Again, a social invite will go a long way toward fixing that, even if she does not accept. Preventative measure is to not push very hard with social circle asks, and instead to toss some harmless asks out on high points, and return to flirtation if you get a no.

Chase

 

[DarkKnight]

Very interesting stuff Chase and a lot of things to digest. I will have to re-read this thread later in the future. Thanks for the reply

I hadn't persisted super hard though.. I am certain I didn't cross any big boundaries.

For future references this I will recalibrate "return to flirtation if you get a no " because I tend to drop girls like a stone and even avoid social talk.

Lets see what returning to flirtation will do for me. Also ties with an earlier thread I made about my big ego, lol.