Am I still being a coward or is this the right thing to do

[Lossanzo]

Hey fellas

I was going to write here a long story about this girl in my class that I can't stop thinking about, but I'll try to make it quick:

So there is this girl I have an "obsession" for a year now.
I met her in my class in university.
She's the most gorgeous girl in there.
From what I can tell she's similar to me in several respects.
Although in some things I wish I was more like her which interestingly enough is how I used to be in some ways.
And also she has the best body.
She's my type of girl.
She started eye contact with me for several days.
I didn't talk to her.
She gets cold on me.
Months later I managed to do a group work with her in a class.
This was the first time I talked to her.
I was super nervous when I interacted with her.
The interaction was nothing special.
I was in almost in a "pea brain mode" when I talked to her.
I feel I also was a bit cold towards her.
Didn't want to show that I like her..... right?
Somehow she restarts to give me signs of interest later.
Pandemic starts.
Classes stop.
I stop cold approaching in general.
I find myself keep thinking about this chick for months.
Classes restart.
She gives a sign of interest.
I don't talk to her.
I don't even look at her.
I IGNORE her.
She gets cold.
We change shifts.
I'm not in her class anymore.
I don't have a chance to see her by normal means.
I keep thinking about her.
I get mad about what I did everyday.
I'm obsessing over this.

How do I get out of this?

I restarted cold approaching after this. I only approached 4 girls so far. No phone numbers from any of them though. Don't know how this will work out with this pandemic going on. The one girl that I managed to stop and have a longer conversation wouldn't let me give her a handclasp because of covid.

But the main point of this post is this:

Am I turning away from this girl because it's the rational thing to do or is it because I'm STILL being a coward.

I have to change this in myself. I can't keep being this weak shell of a man. I disappointed myself and her. It pains me.

She's in auto-rejection I'd assume. I know rationally that my chances with her at this point are slim. But emotionally I can't let this go. I didn't ever gave a sign of interest to this girl. I had this idiotic "persona of indifference" the entire time all to protect my ego.

My attainability is nonexistent... I would think. And since she's in auto-rejection, so is my value?

Yesterday came to my mind to text this girl. I got her phone number through my class WhatsApp group chat, she didn't give it to me, I didn't ask for it either. I could ask for some notes from to see how she reacts. To try to begin to bridge the gap that we have.

But this would be out of the blue. I'm not even a friend of hers. We're aquaintances at best. I could ask this to anyone.

Am I still being a coward for not doing this. Or is it the right thing to go cold approaching and try to forget about this girl?

 

[ulrich]

You’re thinking too much.
Do something, even if it ends up being the wrong call, you need to get out of your mind, do something in the real world and face reality.

Wether you are a coward, and wether texting her out of the blue is right/wrong is irrelevant.
You have to stop that thinking.
The only question that you need to answer is: “will this work?”
If it will work, do it.
If it won’t work, don’t do it.
If you don’t know if it will work, you’ll have to do it and see what happens.


To be honest with you, I don’t think texting her out of the blue is going to work for you.
Doing that creates some awkwardness... and you will need to eat that awkwardness and spin it...
From your post I don’t think you are ready for that.

So the question now is: what are your other options?
What else can you do to engage her?

 

[Lossanzo]

You’re thinking too much.
Do something, even if it ends up being the wrong call, you need to get out of your mind, do something in the real world and face reality.

Wether you are a coward, and wether texting her out of the blue is right/wrong is irrelevant.
You have to stop that thinking.
The only question that you need to answer is: “will this work?”
If it will work, do it.
If it won’t work, don’t do it.
If you don’t know if it will work, you’ll have to do it and see what happens.


To be honest with you, I don’t think texting her out of the blue is going to work for you.
Doing that creates some awkwardness... and you will need to eat that awkwardness and spin it...
From your post I don’t think you are ready for that.

So the question now is: what are your other options?
What else can you do to engage her?

Hey uriel, thanks for the reply.

You're right. To be honest, I think all that this obsetion also has to do with the fact that I've moved this last week to my parents house in a small town. Not much to do. A lot of time to think. I'm now back to the city until Thursday. I can do some approaches until then. In fact when I was doing the approaches I mentioned in the previous post I did thought about that girl less. Went to the small town and the thinking restarted.

Unfortunately I don't think there is anything else I can do about this girl. My class is now divided in 2. One shift is having their class at the university, the other online. She's on the other shift now, I only was in her shift on the first week. And only God knows when does this pandemic end. So I don't think I can engage her anymore.

 

[ulrich]

@Lossanzo, if you send her that text and it turns into akward situation... how would you feel? Would you be able to handle it?

Since you have no other option, we can tell you how to open and what to say on the first messages but after that it's going to be on you.
And if something goes wrong, you will have to face the social consequences.
Is it worth the trouble?

 

[Lossanzo]

@Lossanzo, if you send her that text and it turns into akward situation... how would you feel? Would you be able to handle it?

Since you have no other option, we can tell you how to open and what to say on the first messages but after that it's going to be on you.
And if something goes wrong, you will have to face the social consequences.
Is it worth the trouble?

I pretty much know that it would be awkward. I'm not good with girls yet. I have difficulty at making dates even happen with the numbers I get from cold approaching, with women I don't have the same mental investment that I have on this one. Making something happen with this one would be even harder. She acted like she hated me several times. Probably does now.

She seemed to me the reserved type. She made it clear to me that she was interested by starting eye contact with me several times over several days with someone that didn't even talk to her before. Not something that someone reserved would do if she wasn't very interested. Which is why this pains me. I had the chance and I blew it.

The one time I talked to her one on one I was nervous beyond belief. My vibe not good. To be honest, when I say that she "gave me signals of interest after that" means that she looked at my direction for half a second the one class after that group work with her, which was the last one before everyone went home to have online classes.

Now in October happened the same thing. The first day we came back I was going home when I spotted her and a female friend of hers talking at the center of the university. I saw her stop looking at the girl she was talking to glance at my direction for like another half second. I didn't even return her look. When I was passing by them I looked at her and she was back talking to her friend. And I didn't say anything.

The next day I could smell auto-rejection the moment I entered the class. I went in a bit late. Most of the people around her looked at me when I entered the classroom but she just had this contracted look on her face looking elsewhere.

Or maybe this is all my head because I am so emotionally invested in this girl.

I think she hates my guts right now. How would a girl like that react to this guy that apparently is too good for her that can't even say a word to her, send her a random message about some school notes that he could get from anyone, especially since I'm not in her shift anymore. It had crossed my mind something like "Well you seem to be a very good student so could you give me your notes from this subject. pretty please?" I don't think it would work. What would I even accomplish with that?

I don't know if I should do this. Even less when I'm in this needy state. I think this is a great girl, but need to upgrade myself first. I can't act like I've been acting.

 

[ulrich]

OK, first thing first, drop everything that you are thinking right now.
You don’t have nearly enough reference points to reach the conclusions you already reached (she is reserved, she is in auto-rejection, my attainability is non existent, my vibe is not good, etc...).

What you are going to do is send the following message:

- “Hi GIRLNAME.”
- “I’m YOURNAME from class.”
- “I was talking with a friend from your group and you showed up in the conversation... it left me wondering what has been of you...”
- “Hope you don’t mind me messaging you ”


From here, there are 4 possible scenarios.

The first is she doesn’t even recognize you.
If that happens, you have to remind her of the times you have met.
Make sure to remove all the blame and judgement.

- “Yeah, don’t worry. I guess we just crossed paths a couple of times.”
- “You made some impression on me, though ”


The second scenario is she only replies on short sentences. This can mean she is not interested (15%) but it most likely means she is shy (85%).
In this case you are going to have to put 90% of the effort in this conversation until she starts reciprocating.
Share stories of what you are doing and ask her open ended questions about what she is doing and what she THINKS/FEELS. Always end with a question about her until she starts reciprocating.
DO NOT get hang up explain yourself or talking about you. All stories/anecdotes you share will be used to get her to interact.
Also stay out of depressing subjects (COVID)

- “How has been your October?”
- “Last week I did this crazy thing yada yada.. what about you?”
- “A friend told me this hilarious thing yada yada... ever happened to you?”
- “School feels so weird with the split groups. I feel like I could just take long vacations and nobody would notice. Would you join if we do that?”

Third scenario is she reciprocated out of the bat.
In that case follow above structure but progressively make your questions more personal.

- “Do you have brothers or sisters?”
- “You know, sometimes I dream of doing XXX. What do you dream about?”


Fourth scenario is she simply ignores you.
This is unlikely since you are in the same class but possible.
In that case, you can only send a message saying:

“Don’t be shy, I don’t bite ”

If she doesn’t reply after that, chances is there is nothing to do at all.


You might want to wait for other guys to reply this thread and get more opinions but this is what I would do.
The truth is that there is no “good” course of action. You are in a zone of uncertainty and what you need to do is crush that uncertainty.

Hope this helps.

 

[Fuck This]

All of your suppositions about this girl and her feelings about you is based totally on NO DIRECT INFORMATION.

You know what? Even if she totally rejects you, at least you know she is a bitch and you are lucky to have not gotten involved with her

OR

She may turn out to be a really cool chick and someone you like having in your life.

It is that simple.

You have made it this far in your life with out her expressing the least bit of approval...As for "Awkwardness" well that gives YOU the power if you are stoic and unaffected..

 

[POB]

You're right. To be honest, I think all that this obsession also has to do with the fact that I've moved this last week to my parents house in a small town. Not much to do. A lot of time to think.

Mmmm, don't you have anything going in the businesses department? Even a side project? Keeping busy doing what you like and making money will automatically take your mind out of that loop.

It's not her, IT'S YOU!

She's not that important. YOU ARE.

 

[Lossanzo]

Thanks for replies @uriel @Fuck This @POB. I'm glad I made this thread.

OK, first thing first, drop everything that you are thinking right now.
You don’t have nearly enough reference points to reach the conclusions you already reached (she is reserved, she is in auto-rejection, my attainability is non existent, my vibe is not good, etc...).

What you are going to do is send the following message:

- “Hi GIRLNAME.”
- “I’m YOURNAME from class.”
- “I was talking with a friend from your group and you showed up in the conversation... it left me wondering what has been of you...”
- “Hope you don’t mind me messaging you ”


From here, there are 4 possible scenarios.

The first is she doesn’t even recognize you.
If that happens, you have to remind her of the times you have met.
Make sure to remove all the blame and judgement.

- “Yeah, don’t worry. I guess we just crossed paths a couple of times.”
- “You made some impression on me, though ”


The second scenario is she only replies on short sentences. This can mean she is not interested (15%) but it most likely means she is shy (85%).
In this case you are going to have to put 90% of the effort in this conversation until she starts reciprocating.
Share stories of what you are doing and ask her open ended questions about what she is doing and what she THINKS/FEELS. Always end with a question about her until she starts reciprocating.
DO NOT get hang up explain yourself or talking about you. All stories/anecdotes you share will be used to get her to interact.
Also stay out of depressing subjects (COVID)

- “How has been your October?”
- “Last week I did this crazy thing yada yada.. what about you?”
- “A friend told me this hilarious thing yada yada... ever happened to you?”
- “School feels so weird with the split groups. I feel like I could just take long vacations and nobody would notice. Would you join if we do that?”

Third scenario is she reciprocated out of the bat.
In that case follow above structure but progressively make your questions more personal.

- “Do you have brothers or sisters?”
- “You know, sometimes I dream of doing XXX. What do you dream about?”


Fourth scenario is she simply ignores you.
This is unlikely since you are in the same class but possible.
In that case, you can only send a message saying:

“Don’t be shy, I don’t bite ”

If she doesn’t reply after that, chances is there is nothing to do at all.


You might want to wait for other guys to reply this thread and get more opinions but this is what I would do.
The truth is that there is no “good” course of action. You are in a zone of uncertainty and what you need to do is crush that uncertainty.

Hope this helps.

This sounds great! I'm just thinking instead of saying that I was talking to someone from her group that mentioned her, I would just simply say that I just noticed her in the online class and that I've been wondering what has been of her. That would be OK? Also, I'd say this after a class. I'm thinking tomorow after the last one.

The drawback of this timing would be the fact that in the event that she is interested and would like to meet up, I can't meet her until the week after the next one because I'm not in the city until then. I could delay to send the message until the end of next week, but the clock is ticking. She likely doesn't even remember me right now. Next week even worse.

Another thing is that I think I to have to state my intentions early on or she probably will wonder why am I even texting her. I need to make her comfortable enough to be able to get her on a date. That would be my objective. I don't know how much "comfort" I can make happen through texting though.

All of your suppositions about this girl and her feelings about you is based totally on NO DIRECT INFORMATION.

You know what? Even if she totally rejects you, at least you know she is a bitch and you are lucky to have not gotten involved with her

OR

She may turn out to be a really cool chick and someone you like having in your life.

It is that simple.

You have made it this far in your life with out her expressing the least bit of approval...As for "Awkwardness" well that gives YOU the power if you are stoic and unaffected..

You're right. It's time to face reality. This thing on my head has been going for too long. I can only find peace on this after I've done what I can with her. If not, I will always delude myself of what could happen, even if a chance of that happening is long gone.

Mmmm, don't you have anything going in the businesses department? Even a side project? Keeping busy doing what you like and making money will automatically take your mind out of that loop.

It's not her, IT'S YOU!

She's not that important. YOU ARE.

Well, I do have to study for the university course, but that isn't stimulating/interesting enough for my mind to get away from this girl much of the time. In fact this thing on my mind has negatively impacted my studies. I have no choice but to deal with this. Cold approaching girls does get my mind away from it because it's something hard/stimulating for me to do... but I can't do that all day.

 

[ulrich]

@Lossanzo, do it whenever you think is best and change the texts if you think it’s a good idea. This is just a guide.
But definitely do something. Everything that is bothering you isn’t real... it’s in you head.
You need to face reality (whatever it brings) and the sooner the better.

 

[Lossanzo]

So I've sent her these messages on WhatsApp. It was around 12:15pm. Let's call her Ana.

- Hi Ana!
- I'm Lossanzo from your class
- I noticed you on an online class... and I left me thinking what has been of you...
- I hope you don't mind me sending you messages

She hasn't responded yet after around 1 hour. The message has 2 gray ticks on WhatsApp. She can have read these messages but not wanting me to let me know, or for whatever other reason.

I think theres a high chance that she doesn't recognize me by name. So I'm thinking of sending a message like this in a few hours:

- In case you don't recognize me
- We did a group work back in march, I think it was for that tecnical reports subject
- Don't be shy, I don't bite

Or she knows exactly who I am and is ignoring on purpose. We'll see.

Edit: She did answer. Explaining it in the folowing post.

 

[Lossanzo]

So, she answered me this 1h30 after I sent her the first message:

Ana: Hi Lossanzo! How are you? Of course you can send me messages :laughingemote: but what do you mean that you noticed me on an online class?

After 2h she answered me I sent her:

Lossanzo:
- I'm good!
- I saw your face on zoom so I remembered
- You must have put a photo recently
- How are you? This thing of online classes can be tedious... At least you can watch them from the comfort of the house on pijamas if we want
- We should go eat or drink something one of these days
- What do you say?

We'll see how this goes.

 

[Fuck This]

Way to go . See she didn't reject you....

 

[BigPapa]

Hey mate

I do not want to brake your wings , but is super likely that this will crash and burn .

I”ve been through this kind of things a couple of times , one even somehow recent .

what I can say from my experience is that even though she is in auto rejection , the attraction is still there . The problem is that she hates you in the same time , for either because she thinks that you are a dick , either because she thinks that you are a shit human being for not noticing how cool she is .

in my case , even though I played things perfectly ,they would just try to sabotage the whole dynamic between the 2 of us . Most likely it is them : being Hot and cold , arguing with you for no reason , playing hard to get , bla bla

The problem is that you have to accept that is an up hill battle , and that you will have to accept more attitude from her . The problem is that it is a fine line between being a sexy guy that realized that he made a mistake , and a looser . Sexy guys are attractive , while losers are not .

you will also have a higher chance of pulling it out of you will talk with her face 2 face , rather than through messages .

 

[Lossanzo]

Way to go . See she didn't reject you....

Yeah. To honest, I was in shock and thinking like "Am I seeing this right?" when I saw that she answered. Though that enthusiasm did go way down when I saw that she's already suspicious of me.

"What do you mean you noticed me on an online class?"

If I could I would be totally honest with her without having to resort to these types of excuses. Of course I noticed her before. But I can't say that. If I did I was admitting that I was weak. I didn't approach her. I ignored her because I thought she'd reject me. I can't say that to her.

I asked her out right away. Not sure if it's the right call or not. From @Chase point of view, if I understand right, you should pretty much only use texting to handle logistics. I didn't have a date planned with her before. I have no way of talking her in person without convincing her by texting. So I asked her right away. If there is any attraction leftover there or not I probably can't change that by texting. Maybe I make her more comfortable...? How?

Hey mate

I do not want to brake your wings , but is super likely that this will crash and burn .

I”ve been through this kind of things a couple of times , one even somehow recent .

what I can say from my experience is that even though she is in auto rejection , the attraction is still there . The problem is that she hates you in the same time , for either because she thinks that you are a dick , either because she thinks that you are a shit human being for not noticing how cool she is .

in my case , even though I played things perfectly ,they would just try to sabotage the whole dynamic between the 2 of us . Most likely it is them : being Hot and cold , arguing with you for no reason , playing hard to get , bla bla

The problem is that you have to accept that is an up hill battle , and that you will have to accept more attitude from her . The problem is that it is a fine line between being a sexy guy that realized that he made a mistake , and a looser . Sexy guys are attractive , while losers are not .

you will also have a higher chance of pulling it out of you will talk with her face 2 face , rather than through messages .

Yeah, I blew it before. I know it rationally. But didn't ever gave her a sign of interest. So my mind can't let this go. I'm just giving her an opportunity get things right with me. If she's not interested I win either way. I can't have this chick in my head all the time. The moment she rejects me, I will write her off the map. And I will not be obsessed anymore.

It has been 1h30 since I texted her asking her out. I wonder if she will answer. Part of me dreads that she will drag this awkward interaction longer because she doesn't want to say "No, I'm not interested." to spare my feelings or something.

 

[BigPapa]

Mind you , women are sweet in general , but they can also be super ruthless if needed

if she indeed is attracted to you, and is not everything in your head , she will be as washy washy as possible . Trust me she knows what she is doing , and is called payback

the problem is that is very difficult to Move things forward from here . If I were you , I would try to build rapport with her first before asking her out .

 

[Lossanzo]

Mind you , women are sweet in general , but they can also be super ruthless if needed

if she indeed is attracted to you, and is not everything in your head , she will be as washy washy as possible . Trust me she knows what she is doing , and is called payback

the problem is that is very difficult to Move things forward from here . If I were you , I would try to build rapport with her first before asking her out .

I already did. Can't go back now.

 

[ulrich]

Nice. Good work!!

 

[Lossanzo]

She answered. I'm portuguese so some of these terms in english don't match up perfectly, but I did my best to do so. I put the emoticons between :: since this board doesn't seem to have an equivalent to the ones used in WhatsApp.

Ana:
- (quotes me:"How are you? This thing of online classes can be tedious... At least you can watch them from the comfort of the house on pijamas if we want") Yes everything's great! Ahahaha yes
- To be honest I don't remember who you are, I'm really sorry, and since you don't have profile pictures :sweat_smile:
- (quotes me:"We should go eat or drink something one of these days ") I hope you don't get me wrong, but I also don't want you to think on another level :sweat_smile: but I have a boyfriend!
Lossanzo:
- No problem :slightly_smiling_face:
- I did a group work with you around March
- We rarely talked
Ana:
- (quotes me:"I did a group work with you around March") Presentations???
Lossanzo:
- Reports I think
Ana:
- You're [says my first and last name]?
- (quotes me:"Reports class I think") That, that
Lossanzo:
- Yes
Ana:
- Ah okay!
- I remember you but I'm terrible with faces :sweat_smile: I remember you had dark hair, tall
- Do you have a photo of you just so i can remember? If not asking too much!
Lossanzo:
- Ugh
- I'm not photogenic :sweat_smile:
- [I send her a photo of me]
- There
Ana:
- Ah YESSSS, now i remember perfectly
- See? It was nothing :winking_face_with_tongue:
Lossanzo:
- I suppose not
Ana:
- Are you from my year?
- I always thought you were from the 3rd year
Lossanzo:
- I am
- I repeated the 1st year
- I had some subjects done so I didn't go to all classes
Ana:
- Ah okay! Understood :blush:
- Maybe even worth it with COVID
- I'm sure you passed the subjects more easily
Lossanzo:
- Yes
- But I think I would pass even without covid
Ana:
- Of course! But covid helped raise the grades
Lossanzo:
- No doubt
- When you have to be at home it is inevitable that you study more :sweat_smile:
- What about you?
- You seem to be a studious girl :smile:
- Are you enjoying the management course?



And there you have the whole conversation. This was quite humbling. So she didn't recognise me as I suspected at first. But played along as if she did in the first text. And then it takes 3 hours to come up with the softest rejection she could make. And she still doesn't know who she is talking to. That actually is kinda hilarious tough I also kinda feel sorry for the girl.
Then she goes around trying to figure out who I was. Eventually I give her a photo of mine. She recognises me. Makes conversation.

Anyway, so she had a boyfriend all along. I still think around october/november of last year she was genuinely interested in me. When we made eye contact the first time she looked down the fastest she could in a shy way. A few days later she kept starting eye contact with me for like 3 days in a row. Then stopped and ignored me completely. But I already talked about this in the previous posts. I don't know if she had a boyfriend then or not, I'm thinking not.

Don't really know where to take this. I know this was all polite/friendly conversation. I think I'll just drop the conversation. There's not much else to say.

I do want to thank the posters here, especially @uriel for the advice. I already feel more at peace.

 

[ulrich]

Congratulations, @Lossanzo.
You got out of your comfort zone and got a taste of what’s possible, enjoy it.

Two big lessons from this:
1) Theres always going to be uncertainty when dealing with women. Don’t try to guess and understand it all before moving. Err on the side of action.
2) Move faster. All that anxiety you suffered could have been avoided if you had messaged her months ago. Make your moves fast.


I’m going to leave you with a challenge. Do it if you want, or don't. This is extra in case you’re feeling brave:
Engage her again, make a good conversation first and once she is in a high point ask her:

- “Is that boyfriend thing really serious? Like getting married and all?”

Girls sometimes say they have boyfriends when you come off too strong. Also they sometimes have boyfriends they want to dump.
Who knows?
Maybe you’ll find a nice surprise if you ask.