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Another pua commits' suicide Johnny Berba

Skills

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
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Nov 11, 2019
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4,763
Ross Jeffries never impressed me even in his peak- his seduction techniques nlp just come across as fake acts that i don’t believe could ever have worked in the first place
^ a lot of second gen. uses nlp, a lot of the guys in here use nlp in the gambits including teevester... A lot of guys have gotten laid directly or indirectly from nlp...

here:

 

FunGuy

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Feb 5, 2020
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127
Interesting when you dive deeper

parental abuse :
Johnny berba - abused by his father for long periods of his childhood
Sasha Daygame - abused by his mother for large periods of his childhood his mother horded cash rather than spending it on his own son.
james Marshall - dad cheated on his mother and divorced he wrote about it in his book had a negative effect on him
Jonathan Neil Thomson of tnl- parents joined a religious cult and he was sexually abused
James McLean of 21 convention- talked about how he was abused by his parents

Suffered divorces prior to pickup:
Nick Krausser divorced by his Japanese wife after 6 years
Tom torero divorced after marriage during his time at university

Divorced during coaching days

James Marshall - cheated on by his Ukrainian wife when she got a better job offer moving from Eastern Europe to Australia - essentially was used for visa

Out of the book the game
Neil Strauss
Ross Jeffries
Mystery

are all single now - only Zan Perrion who was in the book is still in a relationship now

some other positive ones I missed out on:
Adam lyons - despite being a marketer scammer is married to two women and has done very well in business

Richard La Runa- whatever the spelling is - seemingly made a lot of money has a flat in Barcelona now and is living well
Bro I am convinced you are FBI :ROFLMAO:. How you know all of this?
 

isildur1

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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164
Bro I am convinced you are FBI :ROFLMAO:. How you know all of this?
Watched a lot of content rather than approaching from 2014-2017 I was a “info junkie” I also had a wingman who coached for one of James Marshall’s coaches so was able to get some insight into what was going on in that company

also Alan Roger Currie is another one - he had over 200 lays but died due to a heart condition two years ago leaving behind his wife and two year old- absolutely devastating end for a dating coach
 

Will_V

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Sad to see guys stepping out of the game of life, regardless of the circumstances.

I think the main lesson from all the stuff brought up in this thread is that being a seducer doesn't automatically make you a well rounded dude, nor can a wet pussy be a substitute for a strong and resilient identity. It's pretty obvious that a lot of dudes in this space have psychological issues that drive them. I don't see that as being particularly bad - anyone who's ever achieved anything notable in life was traumatized at some point - but I do think that in some cases women are like drugs to these guys, they not only don't fix the problem, but mask it and make it worse. That's the problem with leaning too hard on an outlet that doesn't give you any foundational purpose to stand on.

Interesting to see all the dirty laundry being put on display about various pua figures. I don't really follow internet pua stuff in general nor care about it particularly. I can tell straight away from seeing interviews that some of them are full of it, some of them are partially full of it, and some are legit. On the rare occasions I listen to one of them, it'll be because I can see something in them that I like and want to investigate to see if it'll be useful to me.

I'm not surprised to see that many of them have relationship problems, even the good ones. Expecting a seducer to be good at relationships is like expecting a salesman to be good at management. They are really two different games with only a small overlap, and even in some ways antithetical to eachother. Leadership rests mainly on unyielding consistency and solidity, whereas creating seductive excitement rests mainly on upending the norm and creating a pleasurable chaos. It's not easy to switch between them, or balance them correctly in different phases of courting. One of the best things about Girls Chase is that it attempts to create a systematized understanding of women into which both skills can fit.

At the end of the day it's important as a dude to take only what you need from the pua space, to not get caught up in the identity bs and keep your eyes firmly on your own goals, not only with women but also outside of them. Getting new pussy is a lot of fun but you can easily get lost in it, and many pua teachers will never teach you self control or self discipline, nor do they care where you are 10 years from now. You'll have to do all of that yourself, and keep your eyes peeled for the pitfalls that some of these figures fall into so you don't end up in a similar place, so that you can have your cake and eat it too.
 

Swati

Modern Human
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Jul 24, 2021
Messages
218
Both spent too much time on their own imo. Torero was daygaming solo round Switzerland and berba seemed constantly on his own the last 5 years or so and never seemed to even have a pic with a girl . Seems like both suffered from isolation in their later years
That's very true! I've always made some effort to connect with people, even if it's just a short period, being JUST around women and familiar people is super boring and isolating, even if there are many people around!

You could see an increase in pet ownership in recent decades so many people are coping with the need for some connection even through animals. It's quite sad but a reality. Similar to Korea, or any rapidly developing country that focuses too much on the superficial stuff and the bottom line they have a high suicide rate.

Those London day gamers most likely thought they were above everyone they don't see the area where they should be a student and just spamming approaches to mental exhaustion. With the addition to being canceled adding to the flame, bad combo.

Good notice!
 

KJ Francis

Cro-Magnon Man
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Joined
Mar 27, 2023
Messages
614
Sad to see guys stepping out of the game of life, regardless of the circumstances.

I think the main lesson from all the stuff brought up in this thread is that being a seducer doesn't automatically make you a well rounded dude, nor can a wet pussy be a substitute for a strong and resilient identity. It's pretty obvious that a lot of dudes in this space have psychological issues that drive them. I don't see that as being particularly bad - anyone who's ever achieved anything notable in life was traumatized at some point - but I do think that in some cases women are like drugs to these guys, they not only don't fix the problem, but mask it and make it worse. That's the problem with leaning too hard on an outlet that doesn't give you any foundational purpose to stand on.

Interesting to see all the dirty laundry being put on display about various pua figures. I don't really follow internet pua stuff in general nor care about it particularly. I can tell straight away from seeing interviews that some of them are full of it, some of them are partially full of it, and some are legit. On the rare occasions I listen to one of them, it'll be because I can see something in them that I like and want to investigate to see if it'll be useful to me.

I'm not surprised to see that many of them have relationship problems, even the good ones. Expecting a seducer to be good at relationships is like expecting a salesman to be good at management. They are really two different games with only a small overlap, and even in some ways antithetical to eachother. Leadership rests mainly on unyielding consistency and solidity, whereas creating seductive excitement rests mainly on upending the norm and creating a pleasurable chaos. It's not easy to switch between them, or balance them correctly in different phases of courting. One of the best things about Girls Chase is that it attempts to create a systematized understanding of women into which both skills can fit.

At the end of the day it's important as a dude to take only what you need from the pua space, to not get caught up in the identity bs and keep your eyes firmly on your own goals, not only with women but also outside of them. Getting new pussy is a lot of fun but you can easily get lost in it, and many pua teachers will never teach you self control or self discipline, nor do they care where you are 10 years from now. You'll have to do all of that yourself, and keep your eyes peeled for the pitfalls that some of these figures fall into so you don't end up in a similar place, so that you can have your cake and eat it too.
This is all so true... More on the topic of relationships, I am so grateful that this site has such a focus on relationship skills. Skills himself too has always stressed these are two separate skillsets. Even though I am not at the point of wanting to explore that side of things so much yet, it gave me a major understanding of the dynamics at play throughout various fwb situations and a few that were veering a little closer toward the mLTR side. It saved me a lot of pain and frustration to have open eyes from the start.

And though Mystery has had his troubles, it is very valuable that after the intro of survival and replication value, his books start with the explanation of keeping balance between health, wealth, and love. I was impressed that a manual on pickup made sure to begin with this concept and put a good focus on it before delving into the rest.

The-Mystery-Method-42-320.jpg
 

Skills

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
4,763
This is all so true... More on the topic of relationships, I am so grateful that this site has such a focus on relationship skills. Skills himself too has always stressed these are two separate skillsets. Even though I am not at the point of wanting to explore that side of things so much yet, it gave me a major understanding of the dynamics at play throughout various fwb situations and a few that were veering a little closer toward the mLTR side. It saved me a lot of pain and frustration to have open eyes from the start.

And though Mystery has had his troubles, it is very valuable that after the intro of survival and replication value, his books start with the explanation of keeping balance between health, wealth, and love. I was impressed that a manual on pickup made sure to begin with this concept and put a good focus on it before delving into the rest.

The-Mystery-Method-42-320.jpg
i would ignore mystery when it comes to relationships....
 

Skills

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Nov 11, 2019
Messages
4,763
Sad to see guys stepping out of the game of life, regardless of the circumstances.
Usually is from the community, not really the game... What is the game, knowing how to meet and seduce women.... Is not being part of the community... You don't really incrementally increase your skillset after certain point, more like lateral...
I think the main lesson from all the stuff brought up in this thread is that being a seducer doesn't automatically make you a well rounded dude, nor can a wet pussy be a substitute for a strong and resilient identity. It's pretty obvious that a lot of dudes in this space have psychological issues that drive them. I don't see that as being particularly bad - anyone who's ever achieved anything notable in life was traumatized at some point - but I do think that in some cases women are like drugs to these guys, they not only don't fix the problem, but mask it and make it worse. That's the problem with leaning too hard on an outlet that doesn't give you any foundational purpose to stand on.
^ this can be said about large sample sizes of any community or people in general.... The issue is that they were teaching self help which make it bizarro... but is still a small segment of the overall community...
Interesting to see all the dirty laundry being put on display about various pua figures. I don't really follow internet pua stuff in general nor care about it particularly. I can tell straight away from seeing interviews that some of them are full of it, some of them are partially full of it, and some are legit. On the rare occasions I listen to one of them, it'll be because I can see something in them that I like and want to investigate to see if it'll be useful to me.
^ consider the source... Is very simple field test for yourself.... Everyone has dirty laundry including probably you... you take the advice and you field test.... There are guys with 0 dirty laundry that advice things that don't work or outdated.... There are guys with dirty laundry that give material that work which is all that matters... Also there has always been in the community a lot of posturing....
I'm not surprised to see that many of them have relationship problems, even the good ones. Expecting a seducer to be good at relationships is like expecting a salesman to be good at management. They are really two different games with only a small overlap, and even in some ways antithetical to eachother. Leadership rests mainly on unyielding consistency and solidity, whereas creating seductive excitement rests mainly on upending the norm and creating a pleasurable chaos. It's not easy to switch between them, or balance them correctly in different phases of courting. One of the best things about Girls Chase is that it attempts to create a systematized understanding of women into which both skills can fit.
A player getting in a mono type relationship after high lay count, is more challegin than any average joe getting into a relationship... Plus the community does not really focus on relationship and not all of us are align even guys with same ideology. Plus in the modern era marriage and ltr are lower odds to begin with long term..
At the end of the day it's important as a dude to take only what you need from the pua space, to not get caught up in the identity bs and keep your eyes firmly on your own goals, not only with women but also outside of them. Getting new pussy is a lot of fun but you can easily get lost in it, and many pua teachers will never teach you self control or self discipline, nor do they care where you are 10 years from now. You'll have to do all of that yourself, and keep your eyes peeled for the pitfalls that some of these figures fall into so you don't end up in a similar place, so that you can have your cake and eat it too.
^ yeah this is good... Just take the material and not model the lifestyle, do you pretty much...
 

KJ Francis

Cro-Magnon Man
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Messages
614
i would ignore mystery when it comes to relationships....
Oh yeah I agree... But the balance of health, wealth, and love is the point. To not neglect one of the triad.

I think a lot of it came from Lovedrop who did the actual writing.
 

Skills

Tribal Elder
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Oh yeah I agree... But the balance of health, wealth, and love is the point. To not neglect one of the triad.

I think a lot of it came from Lovedrop who did the actual writing.
No practical, be confident brah advice... useless
 

KJ Francis

Cro-Magnon Man
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Messages
614
No practical, be confident brah advice... useless
Really? I found it helpful. I reorganized my task list into the three top level sections. I realized I was scheduling too many dates and neglecting other aspects of life.

I ended up revamping my budget tracking, opened a new account to separate fixed bills, got a couple prepaid cards to separate discretionary spending.

Also revamped my whole nutrition plan. Because of a pickup book lol. I was doing the newbie assignment at the time and made sure to keep health and wealth in check before hitting the road.
 

Bismarck

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729
Success and failure is relative to your own personal goals.... If is money... You have multi-million dollar men like gll, rsd nick and Tylor, more plates more dates, karea and hundreds others some in this forum... If you want hedonism many including myself, if you want marriage or relationship 0, razor, manson, papa, julien.. i mean i can name drop all day...
Last I heard GLL was bald (due to Tren), had lost all his muscles, and wasn't getting laid anymore. You're saying he's a multi-millionaire now?

Karea is a multi-millionaire?

Mark Manson was never a PUA.

Julien was publicly shamed and went into hiding like Osama.
 

Will_V

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Usually is from the community, not really the game... What is the game, knowing how to meet and seduce women.... Is not being part of the community... You don't really incrementally increase your skillset after certain point, more like lateral...

Yeah very true, they are not one and the same, even though some communities are very good for learning (such as this one).

^ this can be said about large sample sizes of any community or people in general.... The issue is that they were teaching self help which make it bizarro... but is still a small segment of the overall community...

I'm no expert on the seduction community as a whole, I'm very much a lone wolf and like to stay that way. Tbh I'm not and never have been part of any other communities. But when I look around at the general pua scene from a distance I can smell a lot of issues - guys offing themselves, guys showing unstable emotional tendencies, guys wanting to erase their histories, guys who are frozen permanently in time (what you call 'time machine seducers', I like that), guys bashing eachother online over nothing.

I don't fully understand what all that is about but I do think that if you are a new dude getting into seduction you need to be wary of getting sucked into various types of nonsense, not just from certain parts of the pua community but also for example trying to use getting laid as a substitute for fixing your own life problems.

^ consider the source... Is very simple field test for yourself.... Everyone has dirty laundry including probably you... you take the advice and you field test.... There are guys with 0 dirty laundry that advice things that don't work or outdated.... There are guys with dirty laundry that give material that work which is all that matters... Also there has always been in the community a lot of posturing....

Yeah, field testing is good, though seduction isn't an easy thing to field test for new guys, there are tons of variables that most techniques don't account for, such as limiting beliefs (which must be replaced with solid rational ones and cannot be chanted away) and emotional self-control, for example, both of which take a good amount of time and careful work to implement. So it's not easy to judge for yourself right away whether something is bs or for real.

And sure, everyone's got dirty laundry, I don't actually think it's good to comment on specific cases as you never know all the details. I don't care for example whether some dude is married with kids or single at the age of 50, that's his choice and doesn't say much about his seduction skills, depending on how he likes to live his life.

But even besides all the fly by night salesmen and acme gurus on youtube, I very much dislike to see dudes who are nursing deep wounds teaching a style of seduction that frankly isn't psychologically sustainable or healthy for any normal dude, and framing it as if it's completely normal. I think teachers of this stuff have a duty to teach it in a way that doesn't incorporate their own fractured perspective on things, because the average guy can do himself harm letting his identity be reshaped with disfunctional bs in the hope of getting a little bit of pussy.

A player getting in a mono type relationship after high lay count, is more challegin than any average joe getting into a relationship... Plus the community does not really focus on relationship and not all of us are align even guys with same ideology. Plus in the modern era marriage and ltr are lower odds to begin with long term..

That's as may be - certainly most seduction is about getting laid and not about getting a relationship. I do think that a lot of dudes (teachers and students) delude themselves about that, they think they are getting better at women generally but they are actually just hustling, like dropshippers who think they have a legit business.

I don't have any problem with all the different motivations for seduction - hell on any given day I feel a bit different myself - but there is a bit of a marketing vs reality thing going on in a lot of corners of the internet, where guys are being sold a bill of goods about what something is going to be good for.

What I like about Girls Chase (and why I'm even here to begin with) is it's a broad spectrum analysis that includes philosphical, historical, psychological, and of course practical aspects of sex, seduction, and relationships in general. I don't really know if there's any other way to teach it to the general public, especially young dudes, that's going to give them real strength and well-roundedness in their worldview and identity around what they are doing, regardless of their motivations.

^ yeah this is good... Just take the material and not model the lifestyle, do you pretty much...

Absolutely.
 

Will_V

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This is all so true... More on the topic of relationships, I am so grateful that this site has such a focus on relationship skills. Skills himself too has always stressed these are two separate skillsets. Even though I am not at the point of wanting to explore that side of things so much yet, it gave me a major understanding of the dynamics at play throughout various fwb situations and a few that were veering a little closer toward the mLTR side. It saved me a lot of pain and frustration to have open eyes from the start.

And though Mystery has had his troubles, it is very valuable that after the intro of survival and replication value, his books start with the explanation of keeping balance between health, wealth, and love. I was impressed that a manual on pickup made sure to begin with this concept and put a good focus on it before delving into the rest.

The-Mystery-Method-42-320.jpg

That's great, though while useful, you'll notice it's not especially insightful commentary.

I don't know a great deal about Mystery, though from what I've seen I like the guy, and I especially have a lot of appreciation for his simple insight about how frame control beats everything. That's one of the most valuable things I've ever gotten from anywhere, and it's one of my guiding principles for interacting with women.
 

KJ Francis

Cro-Magnon Man
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614
That's great, though while useful, you'll notice it's not especially insightful commentary.

I don't know a great deal about Mystery, though from what I've seen I like the guy, and I especially have a lot of appreciation for his simple insight about how frame control beats everything. That's one of the most valuable things I've ever gotten from anywhere, and it's one of my guiding principles for interacting with women.
Yeah that's fair, though there are a few more pages on it I didn't post. I read it more like a short precluding disclaimer than part of the instruction, because his recommendation is to go out 4 nights a week from 10pm to 2am and open 12 sets a night for six weeks straight minimum. So if you do not keep health and wealth in balance with that, you will "spiral" as he calls it. For example if you don't balance that with a major nap before going out and eat right, your health will get so fucked, and there goes your state while picking up. Not to mention probably getting fired from your job.

He also started figuring out his model I think between 1990 and 1995 before he knew about the online seduction community. So he didn't really even have to include anything about it since he was writing a foundational pickup book and not a general self help book, but I found keeping it in mind helpful. To make sure over the long term it is 1/3 in balance. He has also said if your seduction skills are way lower, then of course you need to go hardcore on that part for the short term to bring it up to balance the rest.

So if Berba was in his van with shit finances and terrible mental health, maybe if he started each day saying "ok maybe I should take a step back from this lifestyle, see a therapist, and make sure I have a stable income and/or savings before continuing with this" he'd still be here.
 

Skills

Tribal Elder
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Last I heard GLL was bald (due to Tren), had lost all his muscles, and wasn't getting laid anymore. You're saying he's a multi-millionaire now?
Has a hair piece, he lost muscle but not all his muscles... Married with a daughter and a millionaire... Owns a supplement company with more plates more dates... So wrong
.
Karea is a multi-millionaire?
Rich yes
Mark Manson was never a PUA.
He was started with mm...
Julien was publicly shamed and went into hiding like Osama.
Incorrect transfer to self help and is married and a millionaire...
 
a good date brings a smile to your lips... and hers

Warped Mindless

Tribal Elder
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Messages
500
Last I heard GLL was bald (due to Tren), had lost all his muscles, and wasn't getting laid anymore. You're saying he's a multi-millionaire now?

Karea is a multi-millionaire?

Mark Manson was never a PUA.

Julien was publicly shamed and went into hiding like Osama.
Idk about the other guys but Marks original blog as called PracticalPickup and he was in several private PUA groups under the name “Entropy.” If I remember right he was actually pretty good. Of course now he greatly waters down his seduction advice and tries to distance himself from all that.
 

jackgignac

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
May 5, 2020
Messages
41
Interesting when you dive deeper

parental abuse :
Johnny berba - abused by his father for long periods of his childhood
Sasha Daygame - abused by his mother for large periods of his childhood his mother horded cash rather than spending it on his own son.
james Marshall - dad cheated on his mother and divorced he wrote about it in his book had a negative effect on him
Jonathan Neil Thomson of tnl- parents joined a religious cult and he was sexually abused
James McLean of 21 convention- talked about how he was abused by his parents

Suffered divorces prior to pickup:
Nick Krausser divorced by his Japanese wife after 6 years
Tom torero divorced after marriage during his time at university

Divorced during coaching days

James Marshall - cheated on by his Ukrainian wife when she got a better job offer moving from Eastern Europe to Australia - essentially was used for visa

Out of the book the game
Neil Strauss
Ross Jeffries
Mystery

are all single now - only Zan Perrion who was in the book is still in a relationship now

some other positive ones I missed out on:
Adam lyons - despite being a marketer scammer is married to two women and has done very well in business

Richard La Runa- whatever the spelling is - seemingly made a lot of money has a flat in Barcelona now and is living well
Luckily for me, my parents have stayed married for 40+ years!
 

isildur1

Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Jun 13, 2024
Messages
164
Luckily for me, my parents have stayed married for 40+ years!
i think berba had a lot of torment in his early life and upon meeting him in 2018 it was clear to see this affected him

ironically the guy posted the same self help spiel for around 13 years and was making a living coaching people how to deal with his anxiety when he never got rid of his.

for those suggesting therapy by the size of his debts it was clear he couldn't afford it- not sure if therapy would even heal his ocd anyhow.

Overall in todays society i feel too many of these life gurus overshare- johnny was honest about his past but putting every nook and cranny of his living on youtube and in his blog made me feel somewhat uncomfortable but i guess this honesty was why he was marketable as a coach and why people bought coaching from him- people saw him as the relatable average joe sorta guy - which is easier to relate to than a james tusk or james marshall.
 

Skills

Tribal Elder
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Messages
4,763
i think berba had a lot of torment in his early life and upon meeting him in 2018 it was clear to see this affected him

ironically the guy posted the same self help spiel for around 13 years and was making a living coaching people how to deal with his anxiety when he never got rid of his.

for those suggesting therapy by the size of his debts it was clear he couldn't afford it- not sure if therapy would even heal his ocd anyhow.

Overall in todays society i feel too many of these life gurus overshare- johnny was honest about his past but putting every nook and cranny of his living on youtube and in his blog made me feel somewhat uncomfortable but i guess this honesty was why he was marketable as a coach and why people bought coaching from him- people saw him as the relatable average joe sorta guy - which is easier to relate to than a james tusk or james marshall.
Yeah, i say get therapy as cope in my post.... I totally know is not practical "get therapy" is be confident brah advice.... which is why i just mention at the end of any practical post i make or to get guys in the forum wasting everyones time asking advice when they actually need therapy out of the forum...
 
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