Are some people born naturally unattractive and undesirable?

Blackheart

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
May 20, 2020
Messages
79
I don’t know how to write this without sounding as needy, bitter, blamer and complainer. My main problem with women is that literally no one wants me no matter what I do. I tried with different types of girls including ugly and needy and even they aren’t interested in me. Drop that filled the glass and made me to write this is when I was rejected from some ugly, super needy girl on vacation after conversation that included flirting, deep diving and every other tech I know with standard ”I am busy” excuse.

On paper everything is OK with my fundamentals, vibe and game but in practice no one girl is really interested in me. If fact I am typical ”perfect on paper guy” with everything allegedly needed to attract the girl but in practice it is far from that.

Like I was born undesirable as someone was born sick and there is no cure for that. Even advices I give to other men work for them but nothing works for me.

Simply my fundamentals and vibe don’t fascinate women and more they know me the less interested they are. There is something in me that women generally don’t like and thus don’t want anything with me.

I am hard working, high-principled, ambitious man with warm attitude toward people. Look masculine and sexy (with moderately masculine and sexy vibe). Do a lot of things in my life. I am not insecure, complex, etc. I had anxiety disorder in high school but I am cured now completely and don’t have any consequences. Have many friends in life from different countries. Due to my problem with fundamentals, my game is often misattributed as unproductive, so:

Deep diving puts me into friend zone as boring, too serious, etc. or as such a good friend

Flirting and teasing girls puts me as entertainer instead of strong, bold guy. It also makes some girls combative.

Sex talk does sometimes make her curious and she just wishes why there is not some other guy to come after my sex talk to pick her up.

To sum up: girls of any type don’t like me, most of them because I am not their type and all of them because they simply don’t feel any spark around me. Maybe 1% of girls are interested but they see me as husband material and are those who ended up with hook ups and casual relationships. Since the moment we meet girls act as uninterested or neutral. Often they do talk with me, sometimes even auto-qualify but I am always rejected when time comes for escalation. One more thing: I am 29 and noticed that younger girls 18-19 really hate me. In fact I am less attractive to them now than when I was their age.

Did someone meet or worked with some of us ”unusual case of man where nothing works for him”? Or was someone in situation that can’t get girls to save his life and turned it around? I read some advice that if things don’t work someone should do opposite i.e. for example if he presents himself as warm guy with canned routines should switch to jerk and natural game. Could this be some solution?
 

Will_V

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
395
How many times have you been laid brother? How comfortable are you about your own sexuality?

There's something that Mark Manson wrote that has never failed to ring true in every situation. The guys that seem to get nowhere with girls even after a lot of trying, even though they think everything is OK, are guys who have lost touch with themselves, something fundamental in their own personality.

I know for a fact (and it never fails to amaze me) how badly I can do with girls when I have let myself develop negative thought patterns over even a short period of time, when I have started to doubt the validity of my intentions, when I start to judge women or certain kinds of people or even just myself, when it has become me vs someone rather than me offering something without expectation.

And how easy and fulfilling things become when I am able to release myself to the joy of simply being in front of women, to have conversations with them that bubble up their enthusiasm and joie de vivre (and mine as well).
...

It sounds to me like you are going through the motions 'implementing tech' rather than really trying to connect with women. You have lost the spontaneity of acting on your libido and desires, and instead are operating on a mechanical plan to avoid the disaster of a womanless life.

Plans are good, approaching regularly and reflecting on your actions is great, but if women are neutral/disinterested from the get go, it has nothing to do with technique and everything to do with vibe and immediate presentation. And that is determined by how you really, truly, actually perceive yourself as a man. How you live each moment of your life - do you savor and relish it, make the most of it, taking risks and getting outside your comfort zone to live the most fulfilling experience - or is it, as they say, lived in quiet desperation?

I find younger girls to be the best barometer of vibe. Because they are so up in their heads, and often lacking self control, they reflect almost immediately back to a man the quality of his fundamentals in a very strong way. If he's on the right track, they'll stare and even walk over to play, and if he's off the rails, their faces will show contempt and they might even insult him. That's fine (and great) since they are very often being honest. Nothing wrong with the truth, even when it hurts.
...

If I were you, I would focus 100% right now on the first few moments of the interaction. Dial it up. Try a different style, practice a big smile, try a variety of direct/indirect openers, use different kinds of touch, and above all smile, look her in the eyes and enjoy every single moment.

When you're not gaming girls, do awesome, fantastic, satisfying manly stuff, everything you would do if you had a hot girlfriend, had fucked her twice that morning already, and needed a break from women and their silly cute stuff for a while.

Remember, when a girl sees you, that is who you are, in that moment, for her. If you are not enjoying yourself 100% as a man, if you haven't lived your life properly even for a day, it will show, and then there is no excuse.
 

DarkKnight

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Oct 18, 2018
Messages
1,006
@Will_V I totally agree about younger girls being a much better indication of your quality of fundamentals. I have noticed that too.. also notice it with older ladies who do not really qualify into your dating pool.

@Blackheart

Sounds like loser talk to me. Either your fundamentals are off track (you focus on the wront things). Or you do not meet enough new girls.

EXCEPT ONLINE. dont tell me you are a an online guy. Then your story suddenly makes sense :)
 

ZacAdam

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Messages
5,397
@Blackheart

I used to have a classmate whom was from an all boys school. And that unfortunately he is also the lower status guy in the social circle. When we went to tertiary school, one of the girls in the class created social isolation around him.

He was three levels down and he doesn't even know.

When this things happened, you need great friends who are self aware to help you thru the ordeal. and hopefully number 2, the girls in the social arena aren't as asshole and nihilism. (unfortunately, the world is becoming unforgiving as it breaks)

Anyway, going back to you.
As you mentioned below.
Due to my problem with fundamentals, my game is often misattributed as unproductive, so:

Deep diving puts me into friend zone as boring, too serious, etc. or as such a good friend

Flirting and teasing girls puts me as entertainer instead of strong, bold guy. It also makes some girls combative.

I see a lot of problems here.

You like productive conversations.
You tease people but that becomes entertainment.
But you clearly lacking 'authority' and bad past thanks to people who have not treated you well in your early years.


I hope this helps.

Bless
z@c+
 

Blackheart

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
May 20, 2020
Messages
79
@Blackheart

I used to have a classmate whom was from an all boys school. And that unfortunately he is also the lower status guy in the social circle. When we went to tertiary school, one of the girls in the class created social isolation around him.

He was three levels down and he doesn't even know.

When this things happened, you need great friends who are self aware to help you thru the ordeal. and hopefully number 2, the girls in the social arena aren't as asshole and nihilism. (unfortunately, the world is becoming unforgiving as it breaks)

Anyway, going back to you.
As you mentioned below.


I see a lot of problems here.

You like productive conversations.
You tease people but that becomes entertainment.
But you clearly lacking 'authority' and bad past thanks to people who have not treated you well in your early years.


I hope this helps.

Bless
z@c+
Thanks a lot! That is true, I had a lot of negative experiences. Grow up in tough conditions and was disliked in high school. However, I recovered from all that. Got new friend on college, become popular, successful, etc. However, the most negative experiences in my life came from girls. Although I have at least basic fundamentals OK, I was constantly depreciated from girls and also they would always find a way to aggravate seduction process.

  • They would sometimes start as neutral or even lukewarm interested but any little mistake in game (process) would coast me everything.
  • Sometimes I would do all great but still she would reject me waiting for better opportunity.
  • Also girls would often preventively cockblock me when I try to escalate (and be persistent) with their friends.
  • They would ghost my messages when tried to ask them out for the first time, flake without legitimate reasons, etc.
  • Acted as pure assholes although I would be warm, emphatic and flirty with them.
I live in some country in development. As the name says country is undeveloped and it is primarily because majority of people don’t have sense for right values. One of the main problems in my fundamentals (maybe not central problem) is that I am honest, emphatic guy with social value and goals in my life and most of the girls I meet are not. No such girl thought ”Oh this is cool guy, fun to be around I should be interested in him” but ”Oh he is such a drag, he doesn’t know what real life is, filled with everyday routine, causeries and unfulfilled dreams, I don’t want to ever see him again”. As I see these days ”real masculine men, bad boys that are endangered species” are considered primarily dumb jokes, little bit socially incapable and rotten with no much passion for anything except fun and personal pleasure. All girls I meet including, more quality girls failed for these guys.

Problem is the more I try to succeed with girls, the more things listed above happen. I could do amazing things in life relatively easily but getting girls is for me like going to Moon. Trying to get girls just takes away my otherwise productive time and makes me frustrated.

I saw guys that are conventionally less sexy and interesting (and even less similar to girls) how get girls without problems, so I still wonder how genetics influence success with women i.e. could someone be born with poor vibe or whatever and if it can prevent him to succeed with women.
 

johndoe

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Dec 18, 2013
Messages
45
I went through a similar phase like that myself. I read a lot of seduction and GC and was always running "game" on girls, and none of it worked. It was a really terrible period of my life. At that phase, a friend convinced me to stop trying to "game" girls and just be real with them. That led me to stop thinking of my interactions with women as a success or failure thing, which would help me tremendously over time.

At that phase, I also cut down my "game" into just a single gambit: If I'm interested in a girl, I will always try and escalate to sex (i.e. if I meet a girl and I like her, I will secure a date; if I'm at a date, I'll ask if she's interested in sex) regardless of how I thought she thought about me. Even if it felt awkward, inappropriate, or if I just plain thought she wasn't interested. Over time, asking for sex just wasn't a big deal to me anymore. If she says yes, that's great; but if she says no, just apologise for being forward and move on, and things will go back to normal.

Learning seduction very often leads people into the mindset that they have to win everything, because of how it is marketed. The thing is that you can't, because sometimes the field is just not in your favour, so there is no way that you can win. Seduction cannot be broken down into a series of steps. In fact, I would say that a lot of it is just about capitalising on indicators of attraction, and not missing escalation windows. If you're always in game mode, you're going to be too focused on running your game to see these things.
 

PalmaSailor

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Nov 24, 2019
Messages
261
Location
London
I don’t know how to write this without sounding as needy, bitter, blamer and complainer. My main problem with women is that literally no one wants me no matter what I do. I tried with different types of girls including ugly and needy and even they aren’t interested in me. Drop that filled the glass and made me to write this is when I was rejected from some ugly, super needy girl on vacation after conversation that included flirting, deep diving and every other tech I know with standard ”I am busy” excuse.

On paper everything is OK with my fundamentals, vibe and game but in practice no one girl is really interested in me. If fact I am typical ”perfect on paper guy” with everything allegedly needed to attract the girl but in practice it is far from that.

Like I was born undesirable as someone was born sick and there is no cure for that. Even advices I give to other men work for them but nothing works for me.

Simply my fundamentals and vibe don’t fascinate women and more they know me the less interested they are. There is something in me that women generally don’t like and thus don’t want anything with me.

I am hard working, high-principled, ambitious man with warm attitude toward people. Look masculine and sexy (with moderately masculine and sexy vibe). Do a lot of things in my life. I am not insecure, complex, etc. I had anxiety disorder in high school but I am cured now completely and don’t have any consequences. Have many friends in life from different countries. Due to my problem with fundamentals, my game is often misattributed as unproductive, so:

Deep diving puts me into friend zone as boring, too serious, etc. or as such a good friend

Flirting and teasing girls puts me as entertainer instead of strong, bold guy. It also makes some girls combative.

Sex talk does sometimes make her curious and she just wishes why there is not some other guy to come after my sex talk to pick her up.

To sum up: girls of any type don’t like me, most of them because I am not their type and all of them because they simply don’t feel any spark around me. Maybe 1% of girls are interested but they see me as husband material and are those who ended up with hook ups and casual relationships. Since the moment we meet girls act as uninterested or neutral. Often they do talk with me, sometimes even auto-qualify but I am always rejected when time comes for escalation. One more thing: I am 29 and noticed that younger girls 18-19 really hate me. In fact I am less attractive to them now than when I was their age.

Did someone meet or worked with some of us ”unusual case of man where nothing works for him”? Or was someone in situation that can’t get girls to save his life and turned it around? I read some advice that if things don’t work someone should do opposite i.e. for example if he presents himself as warm guy with canned routines should switch to jerk and natural game. Could this be some solution?
The main problem is your perception of yourself here.
Give me more information - age - location - body shape, do you lift? Dress sense - shoes etc…
Most of the thinks that need changing can be if you do the work.
 

Blackheart

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
May 20, 2020
Messages
79
I went through a similar phase like that myself. I read a lot of seduction and GC and was always running "game" on girls, and none of it worked. It was a really terrible period of my life. At that phase, a friend convinced me to stop trying to "game" girls and just be real with them. That led me to stop thinking of my interactions with women as a success or failure thing, which would help me tremendously over time.

At that phase, I also cut down my "game" into just a single gambit: If I'm interested in a girl, I will always try and escalate to sex (i.e. if I meet a girl and I like her, I will secure a date; if I'm at a date, I'll ask if she's interested in sex) regardless of how I thought she thought about me. Even if it felt awkward, inappropriate, or if I just plain thought she wasn't interested. Over time, asking for sex just wasn't a big deal to me anymore. If she says yes, that's great; but if she says no, just apologise for being forward and move on, and things will go back to normal.

Learning seduction very often leads people into the mindset that they have to win everything, because of how it is marketed. The thing is that you can't, because sometimes the field is just not in your favour, so there is no way that you can win. Seduction cannot be broken down into a series of steps. In fact, I would say that a lot of it is just about capitalising on indicators of attraction, and not missing escalation windows. If you're always in game mode, you're going to be too focused on running your game to see these things.
Thanks a lot! Tell me did it significantly help you, i.e. to naturally get attractive girlfriends or lays? It doesn’t have to be on regular basis, just to make man satisfied. I will try definitively, I reached bottom in love life and don’t have nothing to lose.
 

Blackheart

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
May 20, 2020
Messages
79
The main problem is your perception of yourself here.
Give me more information - age - location - body shape, do you lift? Dress sense - shoes etc…
Most of the thinks that need changing can be if you do the work.
Hi. I am 29 and live in South East Europe. I am good looking, masculine body language, have a great job, talkative person, have friends etc. Also, my vibe is moderately masculine and sexy. On paper everything is OK with basic stuff but girls really don’t like me. She could be little bit excited when we meet or when I perform some game move but I will always be rejected no matter what. But in most cases she is pretty much neutral and friendly no matter what I do.

Also girls are pretty much no forgiving toward me to any mistake I make. If sometimes I am not in proper mood (vibe) or if do something not too much smooth in game (I tease her too little/much, talk too little/much, etc.) she will barely wait for that as excuse to ditch me.

Literally my main problem with women is that I will meet girl and since from the time we meet she will concisely or sub concisely look for signs that I am not attractive. I saw guys that are less adequate for some girl and with lower game how get girls without problems while I such completely.

Also most girls I meet were on extreme. Some were super bitchy and rude while most were super friendly or super disinterested. Also a lot of girls like to see me as low value. Many times I heard ”you are soooooo nice” (read, ”you are soooo low value so called man”) although I am not.
 

POB

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
214
Location
South America
On paper everything is OK with basic stuff but girls really don’t like me.
100% your perception. We don't really know if they like you or not until they actually show it, and it takes more than a few minutes of engaging with a new person to know someone. Also getting rejected has nothing to do with being liked or not (common misconception). Men who know their true value don't give a shit about what people think of them - they just go out and do their thing.
She could be little bit excited when we meet or when I perform some game move but I will always be rejected no matter what. But in most cases she is pretty much neutral and friendly no matter what I do.
Meaning you are not showing true underlying sexual intent. It's fixable, but without more information it's hard to help
Also girls are pretty much no forgiving toward me to any mistake I make. If sometimes I am not in proper mood (vibe) or if do something not too much smooth in game (I tease her too little/much, talk too little/much, etc.) she will barely wait for that as excuse to ditch me.
Again, your perception. May not be true at all.
Literally my main problem with women is that I will meet girl and since from the time we meet she will concisely or sub concisely look for signs that I am not attractive.
Again, your perception. May not be true at all.
I saw guys that are less adequate for some girl and with lower game how get girls without problems while I such completely.
Comparing yourself to others is always a no no. Fuck others, your process and growth is all that matters
Also most girls I meet were on extreme. Some were super bitchy and rude while most were super friendly or super disinterested.
This is hard to verify without more detailed information of your interactions.
Also a lot of girls like to see me as low value.
Again, your perception. May not be true at all.
Many times I heard ”you are soooooo nice” (read, ”you are soooo low value so called man”) although I am not.
Being called nice from time to time is normal, but you have to pay attention if you are not getting too much of it. Nice and value have nothing to do with one another (one is a perceivable trait who can be changed, other is inner development and outer showing).
 

Blackheart

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
May 20, 2020
Messages
79
I don’t know. Probably my perception isn’t ideal. Women may like me or not like me but I see that I am rejected all the time when time comes for any sort of escalation. Also, sometimes I have warm reception and conversation goes really great with everything supposing needed that two people end up together and I am still rejected. I try to move fast and every time I go for close although girls almost never give me escalation window. They just sit/stand there and talk and talk.

I am not obsessed what women think about me, I just see that they aren’t interested in me based on fact they always reject me. If they really liked me they would give me at least some opportunity that we end up together and wouldn’t search for unattractive things I could do nor the slightest differences in our personalities. If it is female mind that rejects someone she likes just because of X then it is pretty much meticulous.

Thing is true that girls aren’t interested in me, nor that they want to change their mind. Once I was on date with super needy, shy girl without much experience. And she openly told me that from the beginning she decided she doesn’t want me. She ”didn’t feel the spark in first minutes when we meet” and it didn’t change no matter what I did later. Besides unknown reason (I suppose that I was born undesirable) why women don’t want me is that I often bump into ”spark looking girls” who want to feel it right during the initial meet. Problem is that girls are attracted to behavior and not look and besides masculine body language and some vibe I can’t do much at very beginning to attract them and they don’t understand that.

Here are some things about my attractiveness. My sexual value measured on some more objective scale is something between middle and high and social value is much higher than most girls I meet. Because I am more ambitious than girls I gamed we are not fully similar (maybe 50-75% at best). However, as I said I was rejected/got signs of disinterest by all of these girls.

Honestly I don’t know what to do. This is hard to be understood especially from guys that had at least some girls interested in them and who had less trouble to be intimate with them.
 

Will_V

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
395
She ”didn’t feel the spark in first minutes when we meet” and it didn’t change no matter what I did later.

You should spend more time listening to/paying attention to girls and less time conjecturing on why you are 'undesirable'. Your posts are filled with useless rationalizations of your value rather than actual feedback.

Girls don't bang because of value. They don't sit there and think "I'm going to take a big dirty cock in my little pussy tonight because this guy is 'somewhere between middle and high social value'".

They already told you what the problem is, explicitly and implicitly. The spark is not there. They don't feel excited. They talk and talk, and don't come home. Younger (more excitable) girls are not turned on at all. One girl was even kind enough to tell you straight up what the problem was! That gives you your starting point. What are you going to do about it?

Just accept the truth. Girls find you boring, not ugly. How will you not be boring to them? You can focus on building connections through deep diving, trying lots of different kinds of touch, working on more sexual fundamentals like a more grungy style, strong eye contact and tonality, sexual humor and innuendo, etc.

And most of all, get in touch with your sexuality. Look at girls as sexual creatures, to be played around in bed with, not some kind of competitor on the battleground to get laid. Let them fill you with desire, and own that desire when you meet them, let it simmer in there between the two of you.

Stop thinking of getting laid as doing some trick to flip switches in a girl's head, and more like figuring out how to show her how much you want her in a way she actually enjoys.
 

Blackheart

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
May 20, 2020
Messages
79
They already told you what the problem is, explicitly and implicitly. The spark is not there. They don't feel excited. They talk and talk, and don't come home. Younger (more excitable) girls are not turned on at all. One girl was even kind enough to tell you straight up what the problem was! That gives you your starting point. What are you going to do about it?

Just accept the truth. Girls find you boring, not ugly. How will you not be boring to them? You can focus on building connections through deep diving, trying lots of different kinds of touch, working on more sexual fundamentals like a more grungy style, strong eye contact and tonality, sexual humor and innuendo, etc.
Thank you for your time and will to advise me. That is the point. I am boring (unattractive) to women but I have tried everything not to be like that.

Girls from my fundamentals decide from the beginning that I am boring type of guy (or something similar) and later everything goes in that direction no matter what I do. If it is important for this topic I am academic type of guy, maybe little bit too ambitious for my age. In fact I had many times situation that girl meets me and initiates some platonic (even deep) conversation where she enjoys and never lets things go beyond that. I tried many times to build arousal via game. I was many times in situation to be funny/cocky, combine it with deep diving, screening, teasing and maybe some sex joke and do that until my face turned blue from talking and it still leaded to rejection. For me, more doing that stuff would make me maniac. I must admit that sometimes girls would react well to sex talk but later they would still find give me FSC or bailed out if I just a little bit missed escalation window.

Your previous post is good, telling me to focus on my inner being. As I said some good level of playfulness tech didn’t attract girls i.e. I was still boring. If you have some advice how I can better use techniques for building arousal, to make better effects on women, please write. Simply some classic way of using this stuff that works for the most of guys doesn’t work for me. I will especially try advice from @johndoe to be more natural with girls. After all I used different seduction tech in past 10 years and it didn’t give me much results and just made me tired. Maybe it is time for being more natural.
 
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johndoe

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Dec 18, 2013
Messages
45
Thanks a lot! Tell me did it significantly help you, i.e. to naturally get attractive girlfriends or lays? It doesn’t have to be on regular basis, just to make man satisfied. I will try definitively, I reached bottom in love life and don’t have nothing to lose.
It definitely helped me significantly. I wasn't getting any sex, or getting into any relationships at all before, even though a lot of girls tell me I'm good-looking. When I went out with girls on dates, I just ran too much game and made them awkward, so I was failing hard in spite of myself.

I don't know what you mean by getting girls "naturally". Even after I changed things up, I still have to put myself out there and escalate. A seduction rarely "just happens", though girls can sometimes initiate things if they really like you, that's the exception rather than the norm.

A big part of my deconditioning and reinvention was the adoption of a meditation routine. It helped me put aside the habit of seeing women as game, and to get in touch with yourself beyond your intellect. @Will_V talks a lot about getting in touch with your sexuality right? Meditation can help you do that (it did for me). The one I started with is this: ishakriya.com.

It's going to be a long journey for you. It took me many years to get decent at it even after changing things up. You just have to keep at it. I've had my share of relationships, lays and whatnot after that, but I don't think it was because my game was really good or anything. You try long enough and something's bound to stick.
 

uriel

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
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Oct 21, 2019
Messages
641
If I had to guess, I’m willing to bet you talk too much and most likely your talk is boring.
You seem insistent that you are “academic” which sounds too me like you struggle to connect with real world people.

Which percentage of the time are you talking vs. her talking in a typical date?
 

Blackheart

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
May 20, 2020
Messages
79
If I had to guess, I’m willing to bet you talk too much and most likely your talk is boring.
You seem insistent that you are “academic” which sounds too me like you struggle to connect with real world people.

Which percentage of the time are you talking vs. her talking in a typical date?
I am academic type. However, I wasn’t always like this and still kept in myself friendly, open side for talking and connecting with people. Because I understand that there could be gap between me and other people I have read a lot of books about social intelligence. I try to be funny, emphatic etc. It gave me a lot of male friends and connections. However, looks like it is far for what is enough for girls. Most of them don’t even want me as a friend.

Yes my talk is probably boring to girls. I don’t know if it is because they from the beginning decide that I am boring type of guy or simply words and the way I deliver them are boring. About the question: I let girls talk 70% of time and I talk 30%. I use everything what I have learned: deep diving, humor, flirting and a little bit of sex talk when it comes naturally in conversation. Average conversation is about 75% of deep diving (connection) and the other 25% of other techniques. It is focused on her (desires, dreams, opinions, etc. mixed with some light arousal). However, this isn’t much effective as you can see.

One of the problems in my conversation with women is that they are pretty much grounded and ordinary and aren’t interested in anything besides rumors (gossips) and horoscope. They don’t have dreams, passions etc.. Simply conversation focused on her what seduction teaches us wasn’t effective for me.

What I saw is that they often end up with some guy who doesn’t much talk with them, but from his fundamentals she saw they are very similar (usually some ordinary people, average in every sense and without much deep understanding/interest for anything), and she is into him from the very beginning. Maybe he challenges her a little bit and that is it. On the other side because she sees that I am not like her she will be more reserved from the beginning (sometimes even clearly disinterested) and even push conversation in some boring way. Then I will try to be talkative with everything seduction taught me. It that doesn't work and leads that she is bored and leaves. Sometimes it seems to me that women don’t want to be excited by me no matter what I do.


If there is some advice how guy focused on deep, meaningful things in life can get ordinary girls who don’t appreciate that i.e. how to make conversation interesting with them? Or even better how I can camouflage/adapt my fundamentals to be more accepted by them. There is one good advice from @Chase in some of his new articles that women sometimes want guys outside their type if they are much more dominant over her. I decided to work on inner game like @Will_V advised me and be more spontaneous like @johndoe advised me.
 

POB

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
214
Location
South America
One of the problems in my conversation with women is that they are pretty much grounded and ordinary and aren’t interested in anything besides rumors (gossips) and horoscope. They don’t have dreams, passions etc.. Simply conversation focused on her what seduction teaches us wasn’t effective for me.
If a woman came up to me on our first date and asked me "what are your current goals?"
I would probably take some seconds before answering:
"Right now my goal is to put my pipi in your vagina"
(not kidding, I would say that playfully and give her a wink before changing subject).


This is not a topic you should be bringing up to strangers when you first meet them...even more women you are trying to bed.
Women are much more deep than horoscopes and gossip, believe me. They just get bored easily if the man is too rational.

It's YOU who is leading the conversation to boring topics to them, hence why they loose interest or change the subject to something they are more familiar with. Being that rational will get you nowhere.

There are infinite topics you can talk with a woman you just met. There are also gambits and techniques that lead those topics into a sexual conversation: check here, here and here (this one is a bomb from Teevster and can be used in a lot of different scenarios...Skills has his version too, you can DM him if you cannot find it here).

Get a grip on hookpoints too: here and here from Chase.

But most important, be more free and less rational. You don't want to know their goals or passions on a first date, and they don't want to talk about that shit...you just want to seduce them and take them to your bed.

If a hottie wants to talk about hair styles, fuck, I'll try my best to transition it into "what the best hairstyles to pull hard when we are fucking doggie." Of course I'm exaggerating, but you get the gist.
 

uriel

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
641
Mmm… if it’s really 30% of the time that you do the talk, then I was wrong in my suggestion.

It still feels like you’re failing to relate to these girls.
So far you have not mentioned one thing you liked or were excited about these girls. You only mention what you do.
Could it be that you are not relating in any meaningful way?
 

Blackheart

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
May 20, 2020
Messages
79
Mmm… if it’s really 30% of the time that you do the talk, then I was wrong in my suggestion.

It still feels like you’re failing to relate to these girls.
So far you have not mentioned one thing you liked or were excited about these girls. You only mention what you do.
Could it be that you are not relating in any meaningful way?
That is true. Despite all I say and do (a lot of empathy, deep diving) they still don’t feel I relate to them in meaningful way. If you read book ”Personality adaptations” by Joins and Stewart my personality types are creative dreamer/responsible workaholic. Most girls I meet were charming manipulator/playful antagonist.

Difference in our personalities are because I am more focused on inner world, creative, honest and hardworking that always want to accomplish job. On the other hand their characteristics are that are more outer focused, funny, passive aggressive, little bit manipulative and don’t want to accomplish job but to enjoy in process. However, I have a lot of male friends from different personality types than me and we agree perfect. But women aren’t forgiving to any difference toward me. Based on my fundamentals a lot of time happened to me that women write me off since the very beginning. I don’t know how to make myself more relatable on meaningful way with people that are naturally significantly different than me. I don’t know if this is possible. What seduction teaches us is to be a little bit closed off, build superficial similarity and take her to bed quickly.

But I wouldn’t say that it is the only problem. Two to three times I found a girl that is pretty much similar to me and they wanted me as a friend. They also told me softly that I am boring and unmasculine (they honestly perceived me so) but what I see is that their boyfriends are objectively even more boring and more unmasculine than me.
Besides what we talked about above that problem is inner game and lack of spontaneity there are few more problems women cause and are not fully in my control:

  • Women sense differences in our personalities through vibe and write me off from the beginning as not their type and even look for cues that I am boring to support why they don’t want me.
  • I had higher social value from the most women I meet. I suspect they especially look for boring things that I could do so to have legitimate excuse to ditch me. Evidence is that many times they would be talkative and playful with me, even agree for date, but when they find out more information about me lose every interest. No matter what attainability tech I used it didn’t help me. They would just find some guy who is like they, and tell me it is my fault.
I can improve things I could do wrong, what guys above advised me. But I don’t know how to manage these things caused by women except classical things seduction teaches us and until now it wasn’t effective for me. Maybe if I improve myself in ways that were told to me it will make women more forgiving to our differences.
 
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uriel

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
641
I can’t tell what exactly is the problem here but I can tell you two things for sure:

1) You don’t seem remotely interested in the girls you meet.
Until you can find a way to relate to these girls in a more superficial, social level you will not be able to connect with them.
A big part of being interesting to other people is that you have to be interested in them.

2) You seem to bring a lot of conclusions about how you’re running “perfect” game and following things to a T but results don’t match.
I don’t think you are as good as you think you are… there’s possibly a misconception on how you do things that makes your technique slightly off.
I would recommend personal coaching for this.
At this point you are not a reliable narrator to yourself.
 
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