Are some people born naturally unattractive and undesirable?

MuST0BtA1NSkR1Lla

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
132
Thanks a lot! That is true, I had a lot of negative experiences. Grow up in tough conditions and was disliked in high school. However, I recovered from all that. Got new friend on college, become popular, successful, etc. However, the most negative experiences in my life came from girls. Although I have at least basic fundamentals OK, I was constantly depreciated from girls and also they would always find a way to aggravate seduction process.

  • They would sometimes start as neutral or even lukewarm interested but any little mistake in game (process) would coast me everything.
  • Sometimes I would do all great but still she would reject me waiting for better opportunity.
  • Also girls would often preventively cockblock me when I try to escalate (and be persistent) with their friends.
  • They would ghost my messages when tried to ask them out for the first time, flake without legitimate reasons, etc.
  • Acted as pure assholes although I would be warm, emphatic and flirty with them.
I live in some country in development. As the name says country is undeveloped and it is primarily because majority of people don’t have sense for right values. One of the main problems in my fundamentals (maybe not central problem) is that I am honest, emphatic guy with social value and goals in my life and most of the girls I meet are not. No such girl thought ”Oh this is cool guy, fun to be around I should be interested in him” but ”Oh he is such a drag, he doesn’t know what real life is, filled with everyday routine, causeries and unfulfilled dreams, I don’t want to ever see him again”. As I see these days ”real masculine men, bad boys that are endangered species” are considered primarily dumb jokes, little bit socially incapable and rotten with no much passion for anything except fun and personal pleasure. All girls I meet including, more quality girls failed for these guys.

Problem is the more I try to succeed with girls, the more things listed above happen. I could do amazing things in life relatively easily but getting girls is for me like going to Moon. Trying to get girls just takes away my otherwise productive time and makes me frustrated.

I saw guys that are conventionally less sexy and interesting (and even less similar to girls) how get girls without problems, so I still wonder how genetics influence success with women i.e. could someone be born with poor vibe or whatever and if it can prevent him to succeed with women.
You know how often I see short small dicked men walking with the 10/10 bottle blondes? Or the poor person with zero money fucking the big titty chick while she sugars him? This is the game man. Quite often I find the true rule of the game is that people do not match based off of the look scales no matter how much it is espoused in media.

Facts are this, you are not whatever persons you’ve developed. You can dress as a punk rocker one day, tomorrow dress as a computer nerd then three days after that dress as a business suit n tie and no girl will go up to you and think you are the exact same person in all three instances of the above.

I’d recommend reading some gunwitch method if you need a good one two punch for talking to women if you are not able to get women emotionally invested in you.

Cheers
MuST0
 

Blackheart

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
May 20, 2020
Messages
79
I can’t tell what exactly is the problem here but I can tell you two things for sure:

1) You don’t seem remotely interested in the girls you meet.
Until you can find a way to relate to these girls in a more superficial, social level you will not be able to connect with them.
A big part of being interesting to other people is that you have to be interested in them.
Thanks for reminding me on this. I tried this even earlier but it looks like it was insufficient. I was thinking maybe to be more genuine or to find some way to they perceive me so.
 

Blackheart

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
May 20, 2020
Messages
79
2) You seem to bring a lot of conclusions about how you’re running “perfect” game and following things to a T but results don’t match.
I don’t think you are as good as you think you are… there’s possibly a misconception on how you do things that makes your technique slightly off.
I would recommend personal coaching for this.
At this point you are not a reliable narrator to yourself.
No, I am modest dude. :) I understand that my game is far from good and just think that it was acceptable in most times I interacted with girls. I live in some part of the world where personal coaching isn’t available but for replacement I try to use this forum to get advises from more experienced guys. ;) Hope one day I will meet some experienced personal coach.
 
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uriel

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Oct 21, 2019
Messages
641
No, I am modest dude. :) I understand that my game is far from good and just think that it was acceptable in most times I interacted with girls. I live in some part of the world where personal coaching isn’t available but for replacement I try to use this forum to get advises from more experienced guys. ;) Hope one day I will meet some experienced personal coach.
Where is that?
Maybe there’s a cultural mismatch were not realizing.
 

Egor

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Dec 12, 2020
Messages
37
What are your masturbation habits? Do you consume porn? These factors have an overwhelming influence on vibe, including first impression vibe.
 

Blackheart

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
May 20, 2020
Messages
79
Where is that?
Maybe there’s a cultural mismatch were not realizing.
I live in some small countries in South East Europe. Those are countries with beautiful nature and weird women. ;) Most of things I read in seduction are applicable for them but there are some things in their personality that makes things harder. They do all they can to come as asexual saints in order to get best male providers of different goods including relationship, attention, time or other resources. Often they are unreceptive and extremely picky toward domestic man but completely opened to ordinary foreigners for fast hook up.

Place is extremely tough for learning game because girls in most cases go for (to her most attractive) domestic men inside social circle while cold approach is what some guy will do. Add in that aggravating circumstance I wrote above i.e. that girls often find me repelling and see how things usually go bad for me. :)
 

Blackheart

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
May 20, 2020
Messages
79
What are your masturbation habits? Do you consume porn? These factors have an overwhelming influence on vibe, including first impression vibe.
Super like for this! Yes I was porn addict until last year. I was watching porn every day. But these days I don’t do that.

I noticed increment in my sexual vibe since I stopped watching porn and lowered masturbation. These days I masturbate on average 3 times per week. Don’t watch porn movies but sometimes I do watch nude pictures.

I have some questions. How to even more decrease masturbation? I am healthy male, go to practice every day and this even more increases my testosterone and makes me horny. Is watching nude pics as bad as watching porn scenes? And is watching ending scenes in porn movies i.e. she is lying naked and talking as bad as watching fully porn scenes? Also, how to more freely display sexy vibe during initial meet? Often I would meet girl during cold approach/mutual friends and although I wasn’t masturbating for days I still don’t feel horny in her presence as I would fell if we were alone in some quiet place.
 

Egor

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Dec 12, 2020
Messages
37
In my experience nude images is enough to corrupt your vibe, especially if you masturbate to it. Girls dress so sexy and skank-chic now you don't need that stuff. Just go out.
 

Michal

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
272
That is true. Despite all I say and do (a lot of empathy, deep diving) they still don’t feel I relate to them in meaningful way. If you read book ”Personality adaptations” by Joins and Stewart my personality types are creative dreamer/responsible workaholic. Most girls I meet were charming manipulator/playful antagonist.

Difference in our personalities are because I am more focused on inner world, creative, honest and hardworking that always want to accomplish job. On the other hand their characteristics are that are more outer focused, funny, passive aggressive, little bit manipulative and don’t want to accomplish job but to enjoy in process. However, I have a lot of male friends from different personality types than me and we agree perfect. But women aren’t forgiving to any difference toward me. Based on my fundamentals a lot of time happened to me that women write me off since the very beginning. I don’t know how to make myself more relatable on meaningful way with people that are naturally significantly different than me. I don’t know if this is possible. What seduction teaches us is to be a little bit closed off, build superficial similarity and take her to bed quickly.

But I wouldn’t say that it is the only problem. Two to three times I found a girl that is pretty much similar to me and they wanted me as a friend. They also told me softly that I am boring and unmasculine (they honestly perceived me so) but what I see is that their boyfriends are objectively even more boring and more unmasculine than me.
Besides what we talked about above that problem is inner game and lack of spontaneity there are few more problems women cause and are not fully in my control:

  • Women sense differences in our personalities through vibe and write me off from the beginning as not their type and even look for cues that I am boring to support why they don’t want me.
  • I had higher social value from the most women I meet. I suspect they especially look for boring things that I could do so to have legitimate excuse to ditch me. Evidence is that many times they would be talkative and playful with me, even agree for date, but when they find out more information about me lose every interest. No matter what attainability tech I used it didn’t help me. They would just find some guy who is like they, and tell me it is my fault.
I can improve things I could do wrong, what guys above advised me. But I don’t know how to manage these things caused by women except classical things seduction teaches us and until now it wasn’t effective for me. Maybe if I improve myself in ways that were told to me it will make women more forgiving to our differences.
Hi, I have read the thread and I see some similarities in you with my past self. So I will share my perspective.

A) Years back, I thought as well that I have this sexy body language and slow movements that it means I am a "sexual man" or how it was called here. At the end of the day, it is good advice to move slower etc. but it means jack shit if your inner you does not match. It becomes a facade. Do you know who moves like that, speaks like that, behaves like that? People who are genuinly on another level, have immense wealth, fucked super models, provide etc. Until you do that or gather some indestructible social confidence, it will be just up there, first layer. And let me tell you how powerful women's intuition is. She can smell most of the shit rotten in you. Your insecurities, self-doubt, self-respect. I suspect there is an issue in these areas for you.
The mismatch in this will create a strange vibe and that is what the girls pick up on

B) as I touched upon above, a lot of what you mentioned sounds like techniques. What helped me was to completely get rid of sites like this and just go out there to the real world. Talk to people. In particular, people at my current job helped me because they are very real, open, friendly, inviting, non-judgemental... finding a good group of friends.

C) The "passions and goals" girls example - if they are not interested in those subjects that much, don't force it. If what motivates you to ask that and makes you think that it is the right approach is the fact that it is written on this or other sites, then you focus on wrong things. These are not conversation checkpoints to hit like "yes, I deeped dived on passions, so I am closer to my balls being on her chin". With some people you elaborate complex ideas, psychology and other topics, with others you need to joke around and never rarely get serious.

D) you say other dudes the girls go for are less masculine or more boring than you. If you judge based on seeing them when they already got the girl and fucked her like 5 times, that is not a good way to gather data. First of all, she is the judge of all that. Second, he may look just like her father and something in her just tingles when she speaks to him. Third, he may have done more masculine shit behind the scenes with her which you did not see and that is what raised him in her eyes. Point being, your perception seems based on your position and view point. And also may indicate you are more judgemental than you think you are.

E) as suggested above, I would get in touch with your inner self through meditation, cold showers, working out and quitting reading all the game related material. Get real feedback, not just your own perception and measurement based on what you read here or on other pickup sites. Record yourself, look at how you seem in photos and compare it with other dudes through the real world lens. Go talk to people. If the issues are the way you describe them, having girls fuck you would be a bit detrimental. Because I think you need to do a shift in your character and mindset. Of course it depends on what your ultimate goal is but for me it is more fulfilling if a girls fucks me because of who I am and not because I used the pants-wetter 3000 technique or the leg-spreading line or some master guru fuck boy facial expression success combo. You do those as part of who you are and not as a means to get what you want like a robot. Key point here, techniques are good, e.g. touching her when she says something relatable to you. But my point is you should do it naturally rather than as a result of an equation in your head that "she said X, it relates to my Y => commence touching her shoulder and smiling slowly".
Like attracts like, and attraction is based on who you are.

I really propose to gtfo these sites, looking for solutions and shit and just go out there. Not because it is bad advice, lots of it here is good advice, but you seem to be too focused on the wrong things. You sound like a smart guy, so with all you have learned so far, I am sure you can figure out what to do next in an interaction with a girl. For me, getting in touch with my emotions was a big thing because I suppressed them for like 20 years. Emotions have a wave length and that plays into the "vibe". And women tune themselves to that. People were telling me years back that I am always so serious. Now I am more chill. Part of it is my focus (serious topics vs. just joke around and have fun). Your thoughts create your emotions, your emotions influence your actions and give off your vibe. If you deal with that, it will make you more congruent - another trait women love.
And yea, quit porn. Quit masturbation. I went with no fap, your body deloads naturally at night, it will help you learn self control. And if you think about it, wanking it yourself looking at a picture on a screen or a video of a girl being dicked, is quite pathetic. You will have more energy and you can put that energy into other things like working out. Get to a shape you yourself are satisfied with, fet a haircut you yourself like, dress in clothes that look good on you but you yourself like on yourself. All this might sound unrelated to seduction.. but that is mainly because your problem is not a seduction problem.
 

youngjd

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
Apr 7, 2021
Messages
45
Blackheart,

You are too in your own head. I can relate!

I'm not on the same level as some of the guys here, who already gave you great advice. I can only share what worked for me:

1.) FORGET everything you learned here!**
2.) Take a break from the board
3.) Drill down on your hobbies and purpose in life.

Hobbies can include gym and fashion and haircuts and grooming and yoga and meditation and things for YOURSELF. Let's shift the focus away from these broads for a minute.

**It's impossible to actually forget it. It will come back to you when you need it. But you need this "reset" to spur your growth.
 

Beck Bass

Tool-Bearing Hominid
Tool-Bearing Hominid
Joined
Mar 9, 2020
Messages
178
It feels like you're not being physical enough, like you just talk, and girls seem to like you, but them you try to go for a big escalation move, and it doesn't pan out. You need to be escalating from the start, you have to put your neck on the line, you gotta touch those girls, get on their personal space, risk it getting a bit weird early on, because just talking doesn't lead to anything.

@Skills posted this old ass escalation guide on some other thread, I think it's great, have a read ;D

Other than that, you need to enjoy interacting with girls, otherwise you really won't get anything, women are great at picking up on "vibes", if in your head you're like "this chick is boring" or "what am I even doing here", than there's no way you gonna get results, and there's no point in gaming, really.
 
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