FU "are you saying you wanna fuck?" how did i mess this up?

[StrayDog]

So I am by myself at a local watering hole, posted up at the bar doing the whole low effort kicked back in the right spot, open people as they stand around, game. This elegant looking latina steps up all by herself and I open her. Can't remember what all I opened with but we are hitting it off and I have her pull up a seat at the bar with me. There is good momentum going and we are getting into various things, some playfully flirty banter, a bit of deep dive. I am using light Kino, nothing too heavy yet.

While the whole conversation has some flirty elements I am having trouble sinking things into deeper more sensuous vibes. Everytime I throw out a reality pace with more sensuous undertones she starts getting kind of heady and philosophical. She seems to be a heady kind of gal in general and I entertain that a bit but am ultimately aiming to lead things away from such headiness.

She mentions that she is a single mother in her late 20s, and her kid is 10. She mentions how she never had her party phase when she was younger and now that her kid is older she is experimenting and exploring more. "I'm doing it in the opposite order than most people". Okay so this is a good frame and I play to it, talking about the joy of exploring new experiences in life and just letting loose a bit. She is a bout it.

The thing is, as much as she is engaged in our interaction she never seems to really be "melting" into it so to speak. Not that she needs to be, seeing as things were on track. But I just get the sense that she doesn't quite know how to really get flirty. Like she is maybe still figuring it out or something. Or maybe I am not finding ways to stimulate her more sensuous side. That said, we are still on course.

She mentions at one point how she is going to be meeting her friends soon. They are on their way. So there is a potential logistic constraint.

We are pretty deep in the interaction at this point. Been talking for about 15 /20 minutes and I suggest we walk around and see the sights. There is a good frame for this because we were just talking about how we are the masters of destiny and we can write each moment how we feel compelled. And I am like let's make this moment a good one and see what the night has to offer. She seems pretty game but mentions again how her friends will be there soon but we can walk around while she smokes a cigarette.

As we leave I run into someone I haven't seen in a while, I chat for a moment but keep things brief. Then I have to take a quick piss. So she has kind of just been waiting around for me for a moment. Then when we get outside and start walking I run into another pal I haven't seen in a while and it'd be rude not to give him at least a brief moment. I keep it short and we start to move on. We start to build a little momentum again when low and behold a colleague/friend and his wife appear out of a a restaurant we are walking past. Okay so time to do this thing again. This one would have been especially rude to neglect. Fortunately his wife is there to chat up my gal a bit and keep her occupied. Fast forward about 4 minutes and we are back at it. But now she is saying how she has to go back and meet her friends. Well snap, a good deal of momentum has been lost.

We are walking back and I notice a construction lift and I see an opportunity to pull her in. I am joking around like "Hey look this, we gotta take it for a spin" and I pull her in towards me and wrap my arms around her. She is receptive but still again doesn't really just sink into it. I was gonna maybe try some second gen here but maybe was a bad moment seeing as the momentum was a bit off kilter. Any way her friend starts calling. I joke around saying "just tell her you met your future husband". This is a call back joke as well because she had a ring on her wedding finger even though she is not married (never been married, the ring is kind of cheap so this tracks), and I had been teasing her about it and what not, and used some chase frames but then would be like "just kidding we just met, don't get any crazy ideas"

Any way she chats with her friend in spanish and is basically like "yeah I am here I just stepped out for a smoke yeah I'll see you soon"

So this is when decide to pull out this tech that I just read from @Teevster and am like "look we're having a good time connecting and it'd be cool to keep exploring it but it sounds you have other things to tend to".

She is like "you can hang out with me my friends, or what are you doing?"

I am not really feeling like hanging with a group of people at this point, and pulling her feels like it might be a dead end if we go to meet them without a game plan to leave.

I'm sure pretty this is where I started to drop the ball. I basically reiterated the push pull frame I stated earlier and was like "right on well I'm enjoying connecting, but it seems like you have other business to attend to"

She is like "I'm not looking for a husband right now" throw back human cause I am wearing her ring at that point. I kind of fumble my response (cant recall exactly what I said) something like "yeah I mean we just met"

This is when she is straight up like "so what you wanna hook up? you wanna make out? you wanna fuck?"

I am caught off guard and feel under the gun. I respond by saying "well that's incredible straight forward of you"

she is like "I am a straightforward person"

this is where I really fuck up. I respond by looking her in the eyes and saying "look all am saying is we should keep getting to know eachother"

I said this because I was caught of guard, we had this start stop momentum, she in general didn't seem too forward with her flirtation, she was insisting on meeting with her friends. At this point I wasn't really sure how much chemistry I was personally feeling with her. And then she hits me with such a pointed question. A part of me was thinking "do I want to fuck?" just cause I didn't personally feel the chemical momentum.

I think she took my comment as a sign that I was maybe looking for something more boyfriend like or something, or maybe jist that I didn't have the conjones to own up to it. She left to meet her friends and she told me I could keep the ring.

Upon reflecting I think the move would have been to own up to it more and just have been honest where I was at and said something like "well yeah I'd be open to that. you're sexy as fuck. but we haven't really had the chance to explore this connection more with all my friends popping up and now you gotta meet your friends. So I am not sure how we could make something like that happen" Still using the push pull thing, but its more honest and clear. Then see where she really stands on that.

Or maybe if I just pulled her in close and was like "yes, I wanna fuck your brains out" Even if I wasn't quite in that zone yet.

Any thoughts gentleman? Something I'm not seeing here? How would you have played it?

 

[Will_V]

I think the main things are:
1. Show a positive nonverbal response (e.g. smile, move closer and touch her while telling her she's being straightforward).
2. Keep things moving forward by inviting her home but do it with a slight verbal pushback (e.g."how about let's have a drink at mine and see how the night plays out").

Sounds like she's a bit unconfident of herself in this situation despite wanting to move forward which makes her a bit uncalibrated, so you have to keep things calm and classy while still letting her energy pull things along. Otherwise it seems likely she'd somehow end up with emotional swings and lmr.

It's funny when we end up getting cockblocked by a sudden green light lol. Is why it's necessary to always be present and not expecting a certain way of things playing out.

 

[Skills]

She had plans to meet her friend and was going to meet her friends, very unlikely for her to bail on her friends....(very unlikely to bang at construction site, tech or not tech) She saw that when she ask you to hang out, you were disappointed that is why she said those things..... it was a shit test, so you ok though your reflection is something i would have said better.... But she told you all that cause she knew you did not want to hang out with her and her friends, and she all along was going to do that....

She was very unlikely to bail on friends with plans and she called already that is why she was slowing down the flirt, cause she knew this.... the reflecting response was good, she just wanted to see if you would hang out after she would have bang....

 

[StrayDog]

(very unlikely to bang at construction site, tech or not tech)

It wasn't a construction site. Just a lift that was infront of a shop on the street. I wasn't aiming to escalate. Just to add a more physical sense of intimacy, and move things forward.

She saw that when she ask you to hang out, you were disappointed that is why she said those things..... it was a shit test, so you ok though your reflection is something i would have said better....

yeah I was thinking it was a shit test as much as it was her kind of being kind of straightforward with her intention for the connection like "well I'm not looking for a relationship so what is this about". But yeah, her friends were a clear factor here. Which line do you mean when you say "your reflection"? What would you have said better?

But she told you all that cause she knew you did not want to hang out with her and her friends, and she all along was going to do that....

She was very unlikely to bail on friends with plans and she called already that is why she was slowing down the flirt, cause she knew this.... the reflecting response was good, she just wanted to see if you would hang out after she would have bang....

Sounds like you are suggesting that I should have responding in a different manner, and then just stuck it out and met up with her friends. Waited till the whole scene died down and then tried to pull? That seems a bit drawn out with a lot of unknown factors to get in the way, risk of total loss of momentum. And besides I was really not in that sociable of a mood. I decided to call it an early night at that point.

Maybe if I had been a little more strong with my non verbals in the moment to raise some sexual tension, then suggested we grab a drink with her friends and see where things go. Could have been a lose the battle to win the war kind of strategy. But also maybe into the Lions den. Like how can you pull from there if there is no real clear plan to leave/buy in?

But any way, curious what you would have said/ what move you would have made.

Also, you don't think there is any way I could have built more momentum sooner so she wasn't so fixed on meeting friends?

Or are you suggesting I proposed that we meet up after she spent time with her friends and just grabbed her number?

 

[StrayDog]

I think the main things are:
1. Show a positive nonverbal response (e.g. smile, move closer and touch her while telling her she's being straightforward).

Definitely what my intuition was telling me, kind of missed the cue there. But yes, by maintaining distance it left her to wonder how I felt about her straightforwardness. Maybe she thought I was feeling negative about it. By giving a bit more non verbal cues I could have built some sexual tension while letting her know it was okay.

2. Keep things moving forward by inviting her home but do it with a slight verbal pushback (e.g."how about let's have a drink at mine and see how the night plays out").

Yeah I was feeling a bit if a balancing act where I didn't want to shoot it down but didn't want to just give it all away like that. This definitely offers her some clarity on a potential game plan for her but it also kind of doubles down on the "don't go with your friends, come with me" thing, which was also being met with resistance.

Something @Teevster mentions in that article about using push pull barriers is that it allows HER to offer solutions. The only real solution she was offering was "well you can come meet my friends first." Which indicated her buying temperature wasn't so hot she was gonna drop everything. This is also something her warned of with this tech. That if the buy in wasn't already high you might lose her with it. I think that if I had suggested my place (which also is not the best logistically right now), it probably would have fallen flat as it didn't address the matter at hand but still kind of pushed towards us hanging.

That said, maybe if I had been more physical and dominant when l told her she was being straightforward, I would have better been able to raise/gauge her buying temperature.

Another potential move would have been to suggest we grab a drink with her friends and see how it plays out. Yes it is a bit of an acquiesce to meeting the friends but it solidifies the frame of "oh okay you wanna fuck, that is forward of you and definitely a potential but let's go meet your friends and see how it goes." In a way it is using her friends as a bit of a chase frame barrier. Still would have had some hurdles with pulling with the friends but now there is some tension/clear intention to work with. Which is maybe what @Skills is suggesting?

just some thoughts.thoughts.

It's funny when we end up getting cockblocked by a sudden green light lol. Is why it's necessary to always be present and not expecting a certain way of things playing out.

So true man. Thanks for the feedback

 

[Skills]

@StrayDog this is what i would say something like this(what i was trying to say reflection stuff):

Upon reflecting I think the move would have been to own up to it more and just have been honest where I was at and said something like "well yeah I'd be open to that. you're sexy as fuck. but we haven't really had the chance to explore this connection more with all my friends popping up and now you gotta meet your friends.

 

[foggy]

1. Show a positive nonverbal response (e.g. smile, move closer and touch her while telling her she's being straightforward).
2. Keep things moving forward by inviting her home but do it with a slight verbal pushback (e.g."how about let's have a drink at mine and see how the night plays out").

this is really interesting

what about the orientation of time in the #2 response and how it influences girls behavior? for example, some girls prefer to be in the moment and hearing different time frame perspectives that take them out of the moment can be disorienting and resistance inducing. i tried something similar to this on two different girls recently and it caused a spike of dissonance, then a quick return to their attraction for me. would this response get dampened further by the #1 response - positive nonverbal response?

 

[StrayDog]

@StrayDog this is what i would say something like this(what i was trying to say reflection stuff):

Upon reflecting I think the move would have been to own up to it more and just have been honest where I was at and said something like "well yeah I'd be open to that. you're sexy as fuck. but we haven't really had the chance to explore this connection more with all my friends popping up and now you gotta meet your friends.

right on. yeah my thinking was well she is the one bringing up fucking so she must want it on some level. She is clearly going to meet her friends. So by owning up to it, it offers her clarity that it is a possibility. But by also acknowledging that the interaction isn't quite there yet it I am not just wagging my tail like a silly poon hound. Basically she now has to decide how much she wants to solve the issue, or at least gets the chance to respond to the idea of intimacy. Maybe a number close moment (with potential asd when texting) or if she buys in more create a bit of a game plan depending on what she says. Which could mean having to do the friend meet for a bit.

 

[Will_V]

Definitely what my intuition was telling me, kind of missed the cue there. But yes, by maintaining distance it left her to wonder how I felt about her straightforwardness. Maybe she thought I was feeling negative about it. By giving a bit more non verbal cues I could have built some sexual tension while letting her know it was okay.

Yeah I think that's important, when girls get really forward they can get embarrassed quickly if there's not some kind of validation.

Yeah I was feeling a bit if a balancing act where I didn't want to shoot it down but didn't want to just give it all away like that. This definitely offers her some clarity on a potential game plan for her but it also kind of doubles down on the "don't go with your friends, come with me" thing, which was also being met with resistance.

The whole friends thing is always a bit of an annoyance but it's often some kind of excuse to mask uncertainty. The problem is that if you don't do something to move things forward you simply aren't keeping up with her energy which will make the interaction bottom out as it did.

The read I get here is that while she's not super young, she is very unsure of how to navigate the whole situation due to her inexperience with her 'party phase', which makes it necessary for you to be a strong leader. At the same time she's had lots of life experience which makes her more direct and straightforward and have a stronger apparent frame. So it becomes a bit unclear at face value whether you should lead harder or let her take a bit of control. I think the right way is to take control while keeping things just warm and chill and not playing any games.

Once you invite her home, maybe she will raise some objection about the friends but at least she will know 'ok he's keeping up and not going to waste my time' which will turn her on if she really wants to fuck, and then it becomes just a question of logistics.

Something @Teevster mentions in that article about using push pull barriers is that it allows HER to offer solutions. The only real solution she was offering was "well you can come meet my friends first." Which indicated her buying temperature wasn't so hot she was gonna drop everything. This is also something her warned of with this tech. That if the buy in wasn't already high you might lose her with it. I think that if I had suggested my place (which also is not the best logistically right now), it probably would have fallen flat as it didn't address the matter at hand but still kind of pushed towards us hanging.

I think her buying temperature was high, the way I see it the real issue was that she was unconfident of herself and didn't know how to handle getting turned on by some random dude who suddenly made her feel like she's missed out on her party phase. Being in her late 20s probably a lot of guys think she's experienced and end up expecting more of her which further reinforces her lack of confidence.

So I think even just having the next step there as a suggestion would give her the sense of 'ok I can trust this guy' and she wouldn't have lost respect even if she'd had to put the brakes on things for whatever logistical reason. Because (if my read is right) she wants to really submit and be led and not have to figure out how to make the whole thing work.

Another potential move would have been to suggest we grab a drink with her friends and see how it plays out. Yes it is a bit of an acquiesce to meeting the friends but it solidifies the frame of "oh okay you wanna fuck, that is forward of you and definitely a potential but let's go meet your friends and see how it goes." In a way it is using her friends as a bit of a chase frame barrier. Still would have had some hurdles with pulling with the friends but now there is some tension/clear intention to work with. Which is maybe what @Skills is suggesting?

It's possible this would have been a good option, but at the same time it depends on her friends. Are they going to judge her? Do they want to hook her up with husband material? Girls in that age range tend to start getting ideologies about life and men and generally go around with a stronger frame that can be harder to deal with.

You seem to have had a good social vibe that night so it probably would have worked out well but it's also a wildcard.

this is really interesting

what about the orientation of time in the #2 response and how it influences girls behavior? for example, some girls prefer to be in the moment and hearing different time frame perspectives that take them out of the moment can be disorienting and resistance inducing. i tried something similar to this on two different girls recently and it caused a spike of dissonance, then a quick return to their attraction for me. would this response get dampened further by the #1 response - positive nonverbal response?

When you invite her that's what she's going to focus on. If you don't give some kind of pushback ('let's see how things play out') it could come across as 'you wanna fuck? yee-hah! let's go!' and make her feel like she's the one controlling the whole frame.

Subconsciously she will get the message though that you are leading her based on her green light signal which is congruent with her state of mind.

 

[Teevster]

Something @Teevster mentions in that article about using push pull barriers is that it allows HER to offer solutions. The only real solution she was offering was "well you can come meet my friends first."

The technique is to be used when you:
- Have plenty of compliance
- Have escalated the vibe to the point where you two hooking up is part of a natural progression

You had none of these based on what I read. You had a good hook with a girl, and was doing things right, but that's about it.

I say "good hook" because she did invite you to tag along. Unless you had better plans, or if it was still early, I'd consider doing go with her and meet her friends because:
- She can get to see her friends - that one is now solved. One logistical hoop resolved
- You can build a good impression with her friends - the one thing that skyrockets your odds at successfully extracting.

And use that as a way to not only increase desire but to make her feel allowed - and thus making extraction easier.

From there (after meeting her friends and tagging along with them) you could have built the necessary compliance and escalate the vibe enough to pull of this technique... but only to be used in case a normal extraction fails... such as when you try to pull and she says no despite her seeing her friends and hanging with them for a while, she is still somewhat objecting to go with you for logistical reasons. It is in this scenario that this technique is meant to be used in.

The technique is meant as a kind of last resort technique for dealing with complex and almost unsolvable logistical hoops (or if you feel like taking a shortcut at the risk of losing her, which is fine but then it is not a fuck up, but one of the expected outcomes!). This was NOT the case in your situation. Your problem was not logistics, but impatience.

Hope that clarifies.

-Teevster

 

[Skills]

right on. yeah my thinking was well she is the one bringing up fucking so she must want it on some level. She is clearly going to meet her friends. So by owning up to it, it offers her clarity that it is a possibility. But by also acknowledging that the interaction isn't quite there yet it I am not just wagging my tail like a silly poon hound. Basically she now has to decide how much she wants to solve the issue, or at least gets the chance to respond to the idea of intimacy. Maybe a number close moment (with potential asd when texting) or if she buys in more create a bit of a game plan depending on what she says. Which could mean having to do the friend meet for a bit.

No she brought it up as a shit test no cause she wanted to fuck cause she knew you wanted to fuck and she was not there yet... I agree with teevester....what I was saying is that is the best answer to the shit test... But that shit test should not have happened in the first place it happened cause she was not there yet and she knew your intentions...

 

[Will_V]

Yeah could have been a shit test but also could have been a verbalising of what she was thinking, hard to tell without nonverbals.

 

[Teevster]

No she brought it up as a shit test no cause she wanted to fuck cause she knew you wanted to fuck and she was not there yet... I agree with teevester....what I was saying is that is the best answer to the shit test... But that shit test should not have happened in the first place it happened cause she was not there yet and she knew your intentions...

For the sake of clarity, I agree with skills and everybody else that this was a clear shit-test. I did not discuss it since they already discussed it well enough.

In general to such questions the best answer is: "it depends"

"it depends on how you feel, and how I feel and the circumstances".

Don't say no, but don't say yes. It has to be a maybe, with a conditional that she is likely to accept and understand, and even better, tag along with genuinely.

-Teevster

 

[Teevster]

Yeah could have been a shit test but also could have been a verbalising of what she was thinking, hard to tell without nonverbals.

She is verbalizing: "maybe sex". Not "I want sex". I mean she could have verbalized the latter, but very unlikely. If one is unsure whether something is a test, and often times, there are no ways to know for sure, then treat is as a shit-test.

As I have said over and over again, it is not about what she feels, does, or think, but what you do - what is the right thing to do in this situation, irrelevant of her mental states (which are not necessarily available to you epistemologically speaking).

-Teevster

 

[Skills]

For the sake of clarity, I agree with skills and everybody else that this was a clear shit-test. I did not discuss it since they already discussed it well enough.

In general to such questions the best answer is: "it depends"

"it depends on how you feel, and I feel and the circumstances".

Don't say no, but don't say yes. It has to be a maybe, with a conditional that she is likely to accept and understand, and even better, tag along with genuinely.

-Teevster

oh that was very smooth i like it... But i have gotten that and gone into second gen type pitches.... on sex for having sex is something i can get and i am sure she can get blah blahb and go into second gen verbals, has worked for me, when they go "all you want to do is fuck" or "are you looking to fuck"......... Again when women get with me sexual aggressive (most of the time is shit test), I have personally slow them down and do a flip the script type dynamic were i assume they are taking the masculine role and i slow them down (kind of like when women slow down sexually aggressive guys).... That passes the shit test as well, but yeah that one is smooth....

op take a look at this for context as well

 

[Teevster]

oh that was very smooth i like it... But i have gotten that and gone into second gen type pitches.... on sex for having sex is something i can get and i am sure she can get blah blahb and go into second gen verbals, has worked for me, when they go "all you want to do is fuck" or "are you looking to fuck"......... Again when women get with me sexual aggressive (most of the time is shit test), I have personally slow them down and do a flip the script type dynamic were i assume they are taking the masculine role and i slow them down (kind of like when women slow down sexually aggressive guys).... That passes the shit test as well, but yeah that one is smooth....

op take a look at this for context as well

There are, as you know many ways to counter a test.

Also, one does not exclude the other

I personally would run into a gambit about trust and comfort - and connection. But that's just me. Yours is not wrong, and you know that.

Lots of options.

Again, a shit-test of this type is usually a free transition into juicy material.

-Teevster

 

[StrayDog]

It was definitely a shit test (or was best to be treated as one). She was definitely considering it but her buying temperature wasn't so high that I could just bust into second gen.

"it depends on how you feel, and how I feel and the circumstances".

This pretty much condenses what I was meaning to say to her in a much more concise way. And as @Teevster mentioned could have been a great moment to drop a gambit about trust and connection and maybe even teased her a bit about how it wasn't the right place or time to just jump into it. This would most likely have spiked her buying temperature. Then I could have decided, based on her response if I should push for the pull or go meet her friends under the implied frame of "you cool your jets missy, we'll get there when the time is right" Met with her friends and gone from there.

The key in all this was remaining neutral while making moves that A:set a proper frame and B: gave her the opportunity to respond in a manner that gives me more workable information

then move from there

As I have said over and over again, it is not about what she feels, does, or think, but what you do - what is the right thing to do in this situation, irrelevant of her mental states (which are not necessarily available to you epistemologically speaking).

This puts a lot in perspective. You cant anticipate her feelings and make moves with some imaginary notion of what she may be thinking. You can only make moves based on what is immediately presented to you, because that is the only reliable information you have. My question would then be: what are some tools you personally have that help you to calibrate to the facts of the moment and determine what the right thing to do is. Do you have a method of triangulating, so to speak, that helps you stay present with all the factors at play and act accordingly?

Also @Teevster really appreciate you calling out my impatience. It was revelatory having it so bluntly highlighted and made me immediately realize jist how impatience has been a major roadblock of mine. Gives me a lot to consider/work on. Thanks

 

[Will_V]

She is verbalizing: "maybe sex". Not "I want sex". I mean she could have verbalized the latter, but very unlikely. If one is unsure whether something is a test, and often times, there are no ways to know for sure, then treat is as a shit-test.

All great points, I probably would have been too impatient for this one, and probably read too much into her words without having any nonverbals to reference.

Do you think following along with her suggestion to hang with her friends right after a shit test is the best way to go about things? Considering that she seemed a bit flip floppy on his attempts to escalate things thus far. She might feel like he's investing a lot while she hasn't been all that compliant.

 

[Teevster]

This pretty much condenses what I was meaning to say to her in a much more concise way. And as @Teevster mentioned could have been a great moment to drop a gambit about trust and connection and maybe even teased her a bit about how it wasn't the right place or time to just jump into it. This would most likely have spiked her buying temperature. Then I could have decided, based on her response if I should push for the pull or go meet her friends under the implied frame of "you cool your jets missy, we'll get there when the time is right" Met with her friends and gone from there.

This is the right way to proceed. Handle tests, see reaction, gain information, and then make a decision.

Easy for us here to say. I know that in field, one may not think that clearly always, but they, that's what forums are for - to be smart "after the fact" lol.

The key in all this was remaining neutral while making moves that A:set a proper frame and B: gave her the opportunity to respond in a manner that gives me more workable information

This is THE KEY.

My question would then be: what are some tools you personally have that help you to calibrate to the facts of the moment and determine what the right thing to do is. Do you have a method of triangulating, so to speak, that helps you stay present with all the factors at play and act accordingly?

No tools in particular - just recognizing patterns really and have rules of thumbs:
- Could this be a shit-test - treat it like one.
- Is this a sign of resistance? Act accordingly
- Is she not compliant? I don't care why, I just act and use what I have at my disposal to work around it.

Etc...

It is like... If THIS then THAT.

As you know, the field is chaotic and sometimes stressful. You can analyze on forums, and be all theoretical, but in field, things are different. You need rule of thumb, and the theorizing post-field is simply meant to provide overall understand, troubleshoot, and better the rules of thumb.

Also @Teevster really appreciate you calling out my impatience. It was revelatory having it so bluntly highlighted and made me immediately realize jist how impatience has been a major roadblock of mine. Gives me a lot to consider/work on. Thanks

We've all been there

PS: Nice thread - I love threads like this that actual discuss the real practicality of the field!

-Teevster

 

[Teevster]

Do you think following along with her suggestion to hang with her friends right after a shit test is the best way to go about things? Considering that she seemed a bit flip floppy on his attempts to escalate things thus far. She might feel like he's investing a lot while she hasn't been all that compliant.

I see your point - following her and go with her to meet her friends may make you come off as overly compliant, and make you lose some frame. This is a possibility.

But in-field, you have to deal with tradeoffs. What are the alternatives? Take her number and leave? Odds for meeting her are small. Or, be too cool for school in the name of the frame, and have her leave? Eh...

So basically, in field, you have to make sacrifices. Yes buying a drink can make you lose frame, but if that is what is needed to get her isolated, then that's the best call.

Again, there is a hierarchy of priority, and logistics tends to trump frame in most cases.... especially in this one.

But if maintaining frame is an issue (despite the fact, she invited you to tag along), just act a bit hesitant, and be a bit challenging: "are your friend cool?"... and force some qualification. She will say they are: "ok then, I will tag along for a bit".

There you go.

-Teevster