Bad night approaching yesterday?

[abond0082]

Hello fellas,
Havent been approaching for quite a while and yesterday I did my first in sometime. I am foreigner living in Finland somethings pissed me off.

I did only one approach and it bombed badly(doesnt bother me much except the woman was full of her self and arrogant kinda wanted to tell her she shouldnt be too arrogant and full of herself but whatever just proud and strangely happy that I go rejected)...Very hot blonde with a nice butt Finland has lots of those.

What I dont like is that by this times after these years i assumed Imshould be a bit confident approaching women, i like a bit or some heart beat i dont like freezing and thinking.As much as I enjoyed doing the kapproach I didnt like thatI stopped there so some excuses that came to my head as to why I didnt do more approaches hope you guys can help me get over it me help myself

1. I frequent the place so am a known face and I didnt want to like the guy who is horny trying to approach everyone in the place(also it is a small place)
2. I am a foreigner in Finland and no disrespect but I dont know if women wojld like to be responsive to a foreigner i front of their country men, I know they dont care but it gets to my head it might be uncomfortable
3. A lot of the attractive women are surrounded by the men and women, to me it is possible to approach her with the men but it looks wierd and I dont know if the man or men could be hostile or confrontational/also I dont know if she would like to be receptive to be talking to a foreigner infront of her guy friends especiallynthat I dont have lots of connections etc...
4. I like going out a lone, and I can be quite in the corner so I can look a bit strange(I am comfortable with it) but maybe it comes across stramge
5. An issue I really want to fix is I can be awkward or have an awkward vibe, it is something I want to fix
6. Most i,importantly I just want to talk to. Lots of women atleast just to gain the confidence when a woman I really like comes a lomg but I am afraid losing face and looking like a desperate and a creep(am neither of these thankfully but maybe I might across this way)
7. A lot of imsecurities come to my head all of a sudden and there one/two really BIG INSECURITY that really freeze me out with almost ALL women.

But the end the strange I just want to,approach most women I desire regardless,if I look bad it is ok(a sacrifice)but I also a bit scared of confrontation or disrespect or if I get many rejections in a raw

what do you guys suggest

 

[abond0082]

Anyone with experince?

 

[Frogsterking]

I feel like I can empathize you here because a) never liked approaching groups b) constant struggle with anxiety c) tendency to berate myself for not being better. I assure you that you can be extremely successful in spite of these traits provided you have the discipline and humility to practice.

I just threw back a few beers, I'm going to reread your post real quick and see what I can point out.

 

[abond0082]

Hello brother,

I actually want to find solutions to these.

One big one for me is when other men are present...I in Finland and being a minority can hinder a bit your approach...A woman who likes you might still reject you just because she doesnt want to be seen as the woman who gives a pass to an immigrant.

The city I live in doesnt have many foreign women....

Also am a bit scared of getting into fights, I can fight, not a weakling by any means but not worth getting into any fight because women.

The other issue is women are crazy, if they see you rejected once or God forbid twice they dont think ok he just approached the wrong women, or it happens, it can be like he has no game, he doesnt have the it factor etx...So I want to know how to handle being seen rejected especially more than once not how to handle rejection

Am usually cool with being rejected, it really sucks but 99% of the time I can deal with it very gracefully, it is the nuclear blast effect that I hate(other women sees you get rejected once or more times) that it affects your chances with getting with women you like or at worst case scenario get thrown out the place(not bad if done in dignified way)

 

[Frogsterking]

"I did only one approach and it bombed badly(doesnt bother me much except the woman was full of her self and arrogant kinda wanted to tell her she shouldnt be too arrogant and full of herself but whatever just proud and strangely happy that I go rejected)...Very hot blonde with a nice butt Finland has lots of those."

First of all, congrats on the approach. I like the mindset that every approach is a 10/10, because 99% of guys out there would never even attempt what you did, and 99% of the guys who even did approach would never analyze how it went or ask for advice. So seriously major props to you for that.

Second, if you're not doing this already, while the analysis is key to improvement it's important that you segregate the analysis and the approaching into two different time frames; what I mean by this is that while your out approaching every approach is a 10/10, pat yourself on the back and move on, when you get back home I would suggest keeping a journal and this is when you can start dissecting what could have gone better.

Third, most of your improvement is going to come from sequential approaches, not all of which even need to be seduction attempts. If you don't see any women you can motivate yourself to approach, go talk to an employee or a dude who seems outgoing and just make small talk for a few minutes to keep the momentum going. Remember that anything you say has value purely because it comes from you.

Fourth, if it's been a while since you've been out just accept you're going to have to start at ground zero for a hot second. Your experience didn't completely go away, it will just take a little while to get back to where you were before.

Fifth, if your key take away from this one women is that she has a hot butt but she's arrogant, like a lot of women from Finland you've noticed, that's probably the line you should be using on your approach, because that is a killer line. If that line is not working then I believe you may be coming across as too serious or defensive in your tonality instead of playful. Unfortunately, one of the best ways to get over this is to get rejected a couple times, so you may have to crash and burn with lines like that a few times to move forward.

"What I dont like is that by this times after these years i assumed Imshould be a bit confident approaching women, i like a bit or some heart beat i dont like freezing and thinking.As much as I enjoyed doing the kapproach I didnt like thatI stopped there so some excuses that came to my head as to why I didnt do more approaches hope you guys can help me get over it me help myself"

Without knowing more about you and where you are in your life, general things that help guys including myself are to volunteer, workout, work on your voice, get some decent looking clothes that are well-fitted and sign up for some type of class you're interested in where hot women will be. AS YOU DO THESE get your ass burned out a few times on the approach in some heavily populated area where no one will really notice you, go in with a really lame approach, mine was "uhh so you want to get Chinese food sometime?" and keep pushing until they reject you decisively. Ironically once you've done this a couple times the rest of the approaches will feel really natural. I believe it's because the bad approaches help you to take the pressure off of being perfect.

For the record, a strong approach I would recommend is "Hi my name is ___" followed by a handshake (or maybe elbow bump during the pandemic) and after they introduce themselves "..are you single?". If a girl asks why you're there just say the truth, and if she asks if you do this all the time you can say "yes." or "only if i see someone cute." Once you've communicated your intent, you can make "awkward" small talk except it will actually be effective now. You don't have to do anything else except arrange the logistics for the next location or meet up.

"1. I frequent the place so am a known face and I didnt want to like the guy who is horny trying to approach everyone in the place(also it is a small place)"

I believe this is an issue, you're better off going to a more heavily populated area where there will always be fresh faces and you can blend in with the crowd while you chain-approach. You're best bet is to find a venue which fits your energy rather than trying to fit your energy to the venue or the venue to your energy. If that's not an option just talk to someone there and be honest about how you feel, eventually you will find someone who accepts you and then you'll start to feel more confident.

"2. I am a foreigner in Finland and no disrespect but I dont know if women wojld like to be responsive to a foreigner i front of their country men, I know they dont care but it gets to my head it might be uncomfortable"

It completely depends on the women in question that you're approaching. In general I believe you will have more success the more similarities you have with the women you're approaching, but you can't always tell that until the approach. It's better to just approach and then decide.

"3. A lot of the attractive women are surrounded by the men and women, to me it is possible to approach her with the men but it looks wierd and I dont know if the man or men could be hostile or confrontational/also I dont know if she would like to be receptive to be talking to a foreigner infront of her guy friends especiallynthat I dont have lots of connections etc..."

Good, I believe you made the right call, and the trepidation you felt in this instance was your impulse control which was keeping you safe.

"4. I like going out a lone, and I can be quite in the corner so I can look a bit strange(I am comfortable with it) but maybe it comes across stramge"

Same. I had more success when I accepted I didn't really want to be there and started approaching the same hot women during the day when they were at university, gym, lunch break, grocery store, etc. all at places I actually wanted to go to regardless if there were women there or not.

It can be a tough call whether you're psyching yourself OUT of going to bars or whether your psyching yourself INTO bars because that's where the "higher status" go. People that are higher status just do what they want, really the people who go to bars just go to bars because they want to be there.

It can also be a tough call how noticeable your behavior is. Usually we assume that things we do are more noticeable to others than they really are. Sometimes it's the opposite though, and we do things we aren't aware of that everyone else picks up on.

"5. An issue I really want to fix is I can be awkward or have an awkward vibe, it is something I want to fix"

I can totally relate to this as well. You can do it. Working out, tone of voice, doing things outside of cold approaching that are meaningful, well-fit clothes of decent quality, finding venues you enjoy going to, cold approaching consistently and making genuine female friends will cause you to come across as a completely different person.

"6. Most i,importantly I just want to talk to. Lots of women atleast just to gain the confidence when a woman I really like comes a lomg but I am afraid losing face and looking like a desperate and a creep(am neither of these thankfully but maybe I might across this way)"

I think this is a good sign, you seem capable of self-reflection and know what you want and lack the entitlement and grandiosity that characterize many men who are unable to improve.

"7. A lot of imsecurities come to my head all of a sudden and there one/two really BIG INSECURITY that really freeze me out with almost ALL women.

But the end the strange I just want to,approach most women I desire regardless,if I look bad it is ok(a sacrifice)but I also a bit scared of confrontation or disrespect or if I get many rejections in a raw

what do you guys suggest "

I think you can overcome your insecurities. I think you're going to have to increase the volume on the approaches a little bit as well as bite the bullet and get rejected a few times. It helped me to come up with a throw-away line ("Chinese food?>??") and an actually good line ("Hi my name is ___" followed up with a handshake and "..are you single?") I could cycle through if I ever started to take myself more seriously.

 

[Frogsterking]

Hello brother,

I actually want to find solutions to these.

One big one for me is when other men are present...I in Finland and being a minority can hinder a bit your approach...A woman who likes you might still reject you just because she doesnt want to be seen as the woman who gives a pass to an immigrant.

The city I live in doesnt have many foreign women....

Also am a bit scared of getting into fights, I can fight, not a weakling by any means but not worth getting into any fight because women.

The other issue is women are crazy, if they see you rejected once or God forbid twice they dont think ok he just approached the wrong women, or it happens, it can be like he has no game, he doesnt have the it factor etx...So I want to know how to handle being seen rejected especially more than once not how to handle rejection

Am usually cool with being rejected, it really sucks but 99% of the time I can deal with it very gracefully, it is the nuclear blast effect that I hate(other women sees you get rejected once or more times) that it affects your chances with getting with women you like or at worst case scenario get thrown out the place(not bad if done in dignified way)

Okay: I think you can overcome your difficulties. It's good that you are cool with being rejected. I agree social status is fickle and many women are insecure and may do what the women next to them are doing (but would act very differently if alone). I bet it's also an enormous pressure to approach being a minority.

I give you credit for thinking about what you could do differently to overcome these obstacles instead of being bitter and resentful like most men would do.

Can you elaborate a little more about how many approaches you currently do a day, what type of venues, do you volunteer anywhere, work out, and what type of women are you looking for?

 

[Frogsterking]

I have another question: what kinds of qualities do you have that you are grateful for? I believe one quality is that you are probably more courageous than most men because I don't believe most men would be attempting cold approach as a solution your problem. I believe courage is a very attractive trait to women.

 

[abond0082]

Hello bro,

currently not many, I stopped day game for quite a while
I like bara and venues because I geniunely like the women in there and I love dancing

First thanks for the nice words

Second, am not that scared of approaching and not that much of being rejected...Infact fear of success is a bigger fear of mine but I love women and dancing with women and many more...And yes I DO Workout

qualities am grateful for: I like my looks, Personality is quite pleasent for most part,well read, good credentials, good health, good relation with family, not too insecure, gives value etc...(Thank you Tony Depp)

qualities that Ihave to work on: procastination and life style especially in the last 4 years.

For me now I want to be able to approach many but again women usually are in groups with men, also the social stances.

To me my fears now is how to handle consequences of rejection not much rejection

In other words I dont want to approach just one but somehow if you get rejected once or more times, it can affect how you are perceived by other women....At the time I want to approach more as to be ready for the women I really want and maybe build
here and there

Also I like to get explicit with women early on (usually I get away with it with women I have some rapport with but I want to take it to next level) but I still want to knowhow to not to cross on sexual harrassement or get in serious trouble

I come across a bit awkward especially when I go out a lone (probably one of my biggest weakness in gaming women is that I can seem very awkward) as it can look a bit abnormal being alone among other things(I dont mind it personally)...I want to reduce that awkward vibe to a more chill relaxed vibe, my voice can use improvement as it might not be loud enough but a female friend told me it is deep so that is good I guess.


The other challenge is when I see a woman am very attracted to(even though almost all women are insecure and Indont believe in 10s) usually many nasty voices come to my head on why it will never work...lots of these women csn have many male friends too, it can complicate things a bit more.

 

[Frogsterking]

I apologize for my slow response, and thank you for your very detailed response. I will try to respond faster next time, by tomorrow morning if you respond tonight (it's 12:17 pm in my time zone right now.)

What you said is great to hear. You seem to have a number of fantastic resources and assets at your disposal for cold approach, including but not limited to: social skills, an ability to maintain relationships over time; including family and female friendships, you have physical fitness, an ability to dance, some knowledge of cold approach and a deep voice.

I have several new suggestions I believe will be extremely relevant to you but first I want to make sure I have an accurate understanding of the problems you're facing and ask a few more follow up questions.

Can you provide feedback on this description below:

You have many attractive qualities and above-average social skills. There are probably attractive women that are interested in you already and you know this but struggle to approach for a variety of reasons. In addition to this you face added pressure because you fear reactions of men and are an outsider where you live. It seems that the venues you're most comfortable in are also filled with regulars, so very direct approaches are impractical. Your actions could be taken the wrong way by some women who will quickly spread gossip in an attempt to destroy your reputation (trying to make themselves look good for example and/or as a result of their own anxiety and not understanding your actions.) You've overcome your fear of rejection to some extent and now actually fear being successful, possibly because of negative experiences in the past and also because you've become accustomed to being single now, so finding physical intimacy with new people will bring quite a bit of change to your life and change is a scary thing to face in and of itself.

Can you individually confirm or deny the breakdown of the issues below:

a) Approach Anxiety: Your mind is telling you things you understand are untrue, for example; that you are likely to be rejected not only romantically but socially as well, because of critical self-talk indicating you are of low value. These thoughts take a variety of forms and center around a couple insecurities in particular.

b) You fear physical and/or social retaliation from nearby men when asserting yourself sexually and sometimes socially.

c) You fear social retaliation from malicious women when asserting yourself sexually and sometimes socially.

d) The venues you've explored so far are more conducive for social circle type of game than cold approaching.

e) You're not projecting your voice correctly on the approach; so some approaches will fail simply because women may struggle to hear you.

f) You're a foreigner in your area so some approaches will fail simply because there is less assumed similarity.

g) You've grown comfortable (though unsatisfied) with your current position in life, so there is an impulse inside of you to sabotage your results to protect you from the uncertainty of change.

h) You don't have a sexual vibe, so women who are interested will be less inclined to progress the relationship through physical intimacy.

Follow up questions:

Are you more agreeable or disagreeable; for example are you more inclined to trust and support others and comply with stated and unstated rules, or are you typically more suspicious of others and prefer to be the one being supported and you are OK breaking the rules?

Do you feel like you could talk forever during an approach (if necessary) and never run out of things to say?

Have you ever opened a cold approach or a date with a hug immediately?

Do you have good options for a pull to a location near your place?

Are there any barriers preventing you from signing up for dance classes or gatherings? Same for martial art and self defense classes?

Any extremely high volume nightlife, universities, colleges or other scenes nearby?

 

[abond0082]

I apologize for my slow response, and thank you for your very detailed response. I will try to respond faster next time, by tomorrow morning if you respond tonight (it's 12:17 pm in my time zone right now.)

What you said is great to hear. You seem to have a number of fantastic resources and assets at your disposal for cold approach, including but not limited to: social skills, an ability to maintain relationships over time; including family and female friendships, you have physical fitness, an ability to dance, some knowledge of cold approach and a deep voice.

I have several new suggestions I believe will be extremely relevant to you but first I want to make sure I have an accurate understanding of the problems you're facing and ask a few more follow up questions.


I appreciate so much ypu taking the time to help me out bro

Can you provide feedback on this description below:

You have many attractive qualities and above-average social skills. There are probably attractive women that are interested in you already and you know this but struggle to approach for a variety of reasons. In addition to this you face added pressure because you fear reactions of men and are an outsider where you live. It seems that the venues you're most comfortable in are also filled with regulars, so very direct approaches are impractical. Your actions could be taken the wrong way by some women who will quickly spread gossip in an attempt to destroy your reputation (trying to make themselves look good for example and/or as a result of their own anxiety and not understanding your actions.) You've overcome your fear of rejection to some extent and now actually fear being successful, possibly because of negative experiences in the past and also because you've become accustomed to being single now, so finding physical intimacy with new people will bring quite a bit of change to your life and change is a scary thing to face in and of itself.

Very accurate for most part espcially the last sentence. Not the kindmof guy that women swarm to but I definetly have pulled several women that are very desirable to me(which is what I want anyways). I have a friend who is good with women and a frmale friend that told me I have a seduction style that if developed would be what Robert Green describe as a ’Coquette’ and from experince that is kinda true it is why I was falttered when I heard that...My anti seducer personality is a bumbler(In life in general) I agree and my friends agree with it too (direct approaches would always be practical to me as they match my personality perfectly, it comes far more natrual, though I should develop my indirect skills to a bit of a degree but personality wisedirect is more me).

Can you individually confirm or deny the breakdown of the issues below:

a) Approach Anxiety: Your mind is telling you things you understand are untrue, for example; that you are likely to be rejected not only romantically but socially as well, because of critical self-talk indicating you are of low value. These thoughts take a variety of forms and center around a couple insecurities in particular.

True to a great extent, my biggest AA comes more for if I succeed she will figure am not as good as she thinks espcially I have many things in life and shit I still didnt pickout

b) You fear physical and/or social retaliation from nearby men when asserting yourself sexually and sometimes socially.

Very true and it has happened couple of times, thenfact that am also skinny can and small can make men feel I am easy to confront(they are wrong though but do I want to get into fights for something silly



c) You fear social retaliation from malicious women when asserting yourself sexually and sometimes socially.

Not really(true to a degree if ypu get rejected a lot maybe they call the bouncer os sometimes, they can be cuntish), but more that if I am seen rejected it will close pther women off...A female friend of mine told me unfortunetly it is true...When women see you get rejectedit can close them offpartly because they dont feel special, partly because the energy of the man takes a hit...Luckily I only approach women that I most desire which means it will be 3-10 women on a really good night...usually about 3-5 that Inreally want after that dont matter too much.

I would answer yes to this question if I want to start off with some aggressive game, so being x-rated right off the bat or in short time, than the answer to your question would be yes. But that is a skill I wanna develop, to be a bit aggressive in a shirt span of time...I belive I can do it but I want it even stronger and in shorter time span and maybe even on the get go.

d) The venues you've explored so far are more conducive for social circle type of game than cold approaching.

Not necessry, they can work really well with cold approaching, they are just a bit small that is all...Ofcourse if ypu have a good social circle can facilitate things

e) You're not projecting your voice correctly on the approach; so some approaches will fail simply because women may struggle to hear you.

True and also the delivery gets destorted ina loud environment. In bar it can work, in a nightclub I can make itnwork but it is a bit tougher

f) You're a foreigner in your area so some approaches will fail simply because there is less assumed similarity.

Yes, I like foreign women too and I like all colors of women but there isnt many in my city or when I go out, maybe have to relocaate...But Finnish women particulary might not like to be seen depending on the Environment giving attention to a foreigner from social pressue especially if the Environment is dominantly Finnish...Me being a loner or standing by the bar alone....Besides my group theory is slightly off, I like to approach always the individual woman I want, not there to socialize and that can be challengin

g) You've grown comfortable (though unsatisfied) with your current position in life, so there is an impulse inside of you to sabotage your results to protect you from the uncertainty of change.

It is scary how elequent you are when you write and you understand the depth of people’ psyche, man if I have this skill It will expone tially increase my skill with women, you might be a modern James Bond...This is my GREAST or one of the GReATEST insecurity BY FAR, along with purposelesseness...This is what makes me sometimes even push some women away

h) You don't have a sexual vibe, so women who are interested will be less inclined to progress the relationship through physical intimacy.

No that is very wrong, I have some sexual anxiety maybe strong, though I do love my penis(it is not huge/big but I still love it) and I do love my sexuality and how I express it(I have alot to learn though) women who likes me like that too


Follow up questions:

Are you more agreeable or disagreeable; for example are you more inclined to trust and support others and comply with stated and unstated rules, or are you typically more suspicious of others and prefer to be the one being supported and you are OK breaking the rules?

I am all of the above but I dont break the rules so I lack some edginess,

Do you feel like you could talk forever during an approach (if necessary) and never run out of things to say?


No, but my conversation skills on a good days are good, more of the listener engaging type than talker engagin type

Have you ever opened a cold approach or a date with a hug immediately?

No but withing short amount of time of meeting them then yes...On a date yes I opened with a hug

Do you have good options for a pull to a location near your place?

Yes


Are there any barriers preventing you from signing up for dance classes or gatherings? Same for martial art and self defense classes?

Dance no(Covid only) martial arts yes after my car accident it was adviced to engage in sports that impacts the head...Did boxing for 4 years


Any extremely high volume nightlife, universities, colleges or other scenes nearby?
Decent but not big