Beginner Attainability Woes: Seeming too Attainable and My Plan to Fix It

[Protean]

During my spring break I took a lot of time to analyze the holes in my game and upon reviewing my field reports an observation occurred to me that I'd like to hear your opinions on.

My biggest sticking point right now is making interactions "man-to-woman" in a way that shows the girl that I am interested in her, but does not make me seem too attainable or that she already has me.

For example let's take my most common opening style. I normally open direct in a relaxed, laid back vibe: "Hey (pause) I saw you walking there and just had to say you have a striking figure. I'm Protean."

My typical result from this type of open is either a totally platonic conversation where I either kept things too platonic or the girl doesn't follow my lead when flirting or a conversation where she's contributing to the conversation and flirting back, but in a "aww you're cute" kind of way.

The numbers from these sets have not yielded the best (read: any) returns as far as getting dates are concerned.

Granted I may need to field test my current approach more but part of the vibe just feels wrong to me.

Then I stumbled upon Todd Valentine's video on the concept of premise:

In short premise is the overall frame of why you are chatting with a woman. A girl doesn't know why you walk up and say hi right. Open indirect, and she could think the premise of your interaction is just two friendly people talking, so when you ask for her number at the end you either get a surprised, knee jerk rejection, or a number that leads to nothing.

From looking at his content Todd seems to suggest that you set a premise of "Yeah I'm attracted to you, but I'm not totally sold yet."

Yet @Chase from the conversation examples I've read from him doesn't seem to do this, at least not verbally.

For example from his article on the PUA neg (below) the conversation example looks a lot like my typical set! A direct open followed by some deep diving with some light hearted comments/teases mixed in. So why do girls love @Chase yet look at like I'm a cute puppy?

Tactics Tuesdays: Deconstructing the PUA Neg

You're out and about, in a high end nightclub or a top shelf retail outlet, when you spot an insanely beautiful woman. She's just gorgeous: dressed to the nines, hair flowing and perfect, and standing atop 6 inch heels. You have to meet her. So, you walk over, start talking to her, and, to bring...

www.girlschase.com

My theory is has to do with perceived attainability.

By that I mean is that for most beginners like myself, our fundamentals haven't gotten to a level where to where girls see us as really attractive and high value on the approach. As a result when we approach, we're seen as more really attainable. Too attainable really.

So even if a girl thinks I'm cute on the approach, she thinks I'm too easy to get. The result? Non responsive numbers and being seen as a cute puppy.

And my fundamentals could be a lot better. While I am in shape and dress well, I wear glasses, have a boring hair cut, and still have visible acne scarring. I improve those weaknesses and I can open direct without girls automatically thinking that they have me.

Until then I'll change my opening style up a bit by implying to a girl that I'm not 100% sold on her yet. For example something like, "Hey (pause) I just had to say I love your outfit. You easily have the best sense of style I've seen all day and I've gotta know if you're as cool as you look (flirty grin). I'm Protean"

The bolded part is key. It balances out my attainability by letting in a way that my fundamentals aren't doing passively yet while still establishing a man-to-woman premise for the interaction. It also has the benefit of being really congruent to my more tease oriented vibe so I'll probably use even as I get more advanced. I just won't have to rely on it then like I do now.

Anyways, I'd love to hear your thoughts on the subject of attainability. Am I handling this sticking point correctly? What did you guys do account for this when you were at my level? Comments and critiques are much appreciated!

- Protean

 

[Toby2030]

Fundamentals has its place, sure. Improving your fundamentals will make everything easier.
However, when it comes to Todd and Chase, they are more or less doing the same.
They open and get her attention. They set a sexual frame. They move into qualification when the sexual frame has been accepted.
If she already have accepted your sexual frame, you should start evaluating her. https://www.girlschase.com/content/how-qualify-girl-and-ramp-attraction
You should work on qualification

 

[ljrozz69]

Hey Protean,

Admitting that you aren't throwing yourself at the girls and saying stuff like "Wow, you are the most beautiful woman I've ever seen, I hope one day I could hold your hands!" this is not an attainability problem; specially if you only are acting social.

This is an investment problem. You are investing in the interaction more than her, so she can't really immerse in it since you are already fulfilling the void.
You have 2 solutions : invest less OR get her invest more.
Let's quickly explore those solutions.

• Investing less : You act less immersed than her. This can be done by leaning back, thinking about unrelated stuff, acting dumb, rolling eyes etc... This actually makes her invest more in order to fulfill the "void", but this only happens when a) she is already invested b) she doesn't feel the "void" is too big for her to grasp (either she will auto-reject)-this is calibration.

• Making her invest more : There are two ways -ofc you need to be calibrated.
  • Escalation: You bait her by building intrigue : You use... tension... in your intonation, you are confusing, etc. You can also build a bit of what here they call "sexual tension"(non-verbal): You do this by getting closer to her, making eye-contact, touching and locking-in -those are the fundamentals you should focus on, not your looks-. You can also challenge her by teasing her, framing her as cute&silly, using qualification etc. You can also amplify the vibe: building rapport, it'sonmoments, etc. You of course also should asking her for compliance as it is a form of escaltion on its own: move her around, make her do something for you etc.
  • Reducing resistance: reduce social resistance by isolating her, reducing her ASD. Comfort/state: rapport and FSC. This makes it easier for her to invest.

IME, in the early interaction you should focus in making her invest more, then later you can start invest less in order to make her chase.
Once you have investment, you can frame it as sexual, and thus making it become sexual investment -this is what you want in the endgame.
Also I've boldened the parts I think you should work on. Make sure to check Alek's series on how to hook a girl.

Think about it this way: you shouldn't give shit for free so she better invest on the interaction.
I hope this was clear and helped you, btw update your journal ! I am sure I am not the only one reading it in secret

Best
Klimax

 

[pinpin]

I can relate to this on some levels.

In fact, one of my current issues is how to kind of best go about showing intent on the seemingly unattracted girls. (I tend to open indirect). It can feel very hard when she's giving you nothing and you feel like she's doesn't think you're hot at all, but you need to make it man to woman and stuff (made this post a few days ago: https://www.skilledseducer.com/threads/escalating-without-clear-attraction.22659/)

I think both our issues really come down too a lack of attraction. And as much as I wish it wasn't the case, I think that basically comes down to whether she is physically attracted to you or not

With me, showing intent or even trying to find a way to test the waters wouldn't be an issue if she was clearly attracted and giving IOI's like my better looking friends get.
With you, you would seem more of a challenge and wouldn't get the lack of flirting from her or the 'awwww' reactions to you showing your hand

I guess hit the gym, hit the fashion and do all that stuff to give yourself the best odds of having a shot with each girl you open

 

[Toby2030]

@pinpin read what @Klimax wrote again. And then do it again.

 

[Tony D]

Alot of guys go direct, then forget all about the part called "game."

"You have amazing style... there has to be a catch."

Think of Mystery Method. "We're too similar, we'd never get along."

Women who connect with me think I'm funny. I use a technique called push-pull, teasing, etc. You also have cold reads, time bridging, story telling, and on, and on. Just being direct and confident is good... but it might not be enough to take you from "the guy who likes women's fashion" to "the bad boy I want to ride on."

 

[pinpin]

I use a technique called push-pull, teasing, etc. You also have cold reads, time bridging, story telling, and on, and on.

I have todd V's and mystery's lines memorised for that stuff
e.g - disqualify - ''you're such a nice girl. We really shouldn't hang out, I'm a bad influence''
Push pull - 'You guys look like fuckin’ disasters but I kinda like it'' / ''one part of me thinks you're cool and the other part of me isn't so sure''/ ''That’s such a weird shirt. . . . But you kind of pull it off ''