Being extremely slow gamed?

weekendwarrior

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
May 3, 2020
Messages
141
Hi guys, this chick has been slow gaming and completely out gaming me. I have given up on this chick multiple times and left the ball in her court. She comes back but nothing changes. All I've achieved is stacking up poor past precedent. I think she's very inexperienced or autistic. I'll set it out in bullet points for convenience.

1) Met chick in a club, pushed for SNL, she wouldn't leave her friend who she was staying with, so I number closed. I tried to set up a date, but she made this difficult, so it was a soft close.

2) We got on a high note over text, I tried to hard close, she said she was busy over new year, so I dropped it.

3) A few weeks later she chased me down in a club, we set up a date, I caught covid, had to isolate and cancel the date. I tried rearranging and she made it very difficult giving me a day, so I dropped it.

4) A few weeks later she chased me in a club again, when we tried to set up a date, she was busy with end of year studies, so I dropped it again and left the ball in her court.

5) A few months later she chases me down in a club and trying to get me to ask her out. I tell her the ball is in her court, she tried protesting the man asks the girl. She did eventually ask me out, then the next day text me asking me to forget everything she said so I forgot about the date.

6) She chased me down a couple more times in clubs, I had given up on dates and just tried to pull her, I could never isolate her from her friend who's house she was staying at that night.

7) She kept coming back and blocking me from meeting new girls, realising I could never isolate her I switched back to setting up a date so after months we finally had a date set.

8) We went on the date and she set a frame that creepy guys try to go back to her flat, I tried escalating in the car, but she abruptly left and shut this down. After she left so abruptly, this was a failed escalation, so I didn't bother following up.

9) We bumped into each other in a club again, I end up dropping her off, she apologised for being awkward on the date and said she was sitting herself. She out classed me with a compliance request. I thought her asking me to get out the car to say bye was her way to invite me in, I escalated at the door but couldn't push it any further. Another failed attempt.

10) She was told I pick up chicks regularly so ghosted me, a few weeks later she brought this up when she chased me down in a club again after getting jealous of a chick dancing near me. She told me she isn't interested in being just another chick so if I was doing that then bye.

11) I ignored this nonsense and we patched things up though her friend was staying over, and I couldn't escalate. This is when she called me out for mirroring.

I can't decide if she is very inexperienced or game level 10,000!

This is the overview with this chick @Beck Bass @StrayDog @Karea Ricardus D. For full context.

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Karea Ricardus D.

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
626
1) Met chick in a club, pushed for SNL, she wouldn't leave her friend who she was staying with, so I number closed. I tried to set up a date, but she made this difficult, so it was a soft close.
If a girl dodges a time bridge, I explicitly ask her to suggest something. That way you know if she's legitimately busy that day or actually being evasive, and if it's the latter you can stop chasing and just pivot her.
2) We got on a high note over text, I tried to hard close, she said she was busy over new year, so I dropped it.
Am I reading this right that this has been going on for about a year already with no sex?
3) A few weeks later she chased me down in a club, we set up a date, I caught covid, had to isolate and cancel the date. I tried rearranging and she made it very difficult giving me a day, so I dropped it.
Yeah whether she's a playa or an autist, either way... this was the second time she put you into this chasing frame and again you accepted it and kept chasing. It's basically a lost cause at this point already and time to pivot her (you can still fuck a pivot, more on this below).
5) A few months later she chases me down in a club and trying to get me to ask her out. I tell her the ball is in her court, she tried protesting the man asks the girl.
"I agree. I did ask you... now it's your turn." :) This would be a good line for the first time she gets evasive by the way, this is already the third or fourth time and again, I would stop chasing entirely and pivot her.
6) She chased me down a couple more times in clubs,
sounds like she will make an awesome pivot... This is great news.
7) She kept coming back and blocking me from meeting new girls
Blocking you how? Usually having a girl all over you makes it easier, not harder, to meet further girls. You can introduce them to each other and watch the cats circle each other... if you do this with a whole bunch of girls, you get an effect we used to call "feeding frenzy".

The main issue is that she's making all the rules and you try to live up to all her rules rather than setting your own frames. It's going to be very difficult to fix this because frames get stronger with time and this has been going on for a very long time now.

I recommend you study up on framing (Vision's guide is a great starting point). And you have to get the frames right as early as possible... I start setting frames a few minutes into the interaction.

As for this girl, as I said I recommend you pivot her at this point. LJBF her and use her for social proof. With her on your arm you will never get rejected. Girls don't shut you down when they see you're already with a girl.

The result of this will be your pivot sees that all girls you talk to like you. She will not realize that you never get rejected because of her.. She will only observe that you never get rejected by girls. Which will increase her attraction for you as well.

But you have to fix the frames cause she's trying to push you into some monogamous thing (she "doesn't want to be just another chick") and you haven't even had sex yet.
 
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weekendwarrior

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
May 3, 2020
Messages
141
Thanks @Karea Ricardus D. I don't think she dodged a time bridge as such but more this is uncharted territory for her. She was confused when I was trying to soft close her, I said that it was fun meeting her and we should meet up again sometime, she said really? Why? I'm very weird! This was my first warning sign! :ROFLMAO: I asked when she was free, she said she didn't know, she was clearly very drunk. I went to walk away and she gave me her phone and asked for my number and then gave me hers. I figured I could work with this.

I'm ashamed to admit you read that correctly, though its not for lack of trying. I've gave up multiple times, I've left the ball in her court and tried everything. I've even been extremely distant, cold and uncooperative with her making her do the leg work after I've gave up and she does, she just doesn't put out.

I might be blind, I don't see how I was put in a chasing frame in point 3, I had to cancel due to isolation. I didn't know how long this would be (5-14 days depending), when I was free to socialise, I tried to rearrange, she tried to play a silly game saying it depends how long it takes me to reply to her texts, so I stopped and didn't persist. She came back to me, again. She's always chasing me down, though I do agree it was a lost cause at this point, this is when I went extremely distant and cold and gave up.

She's blocked me meeting other chicks by basically gate crashing when I was with a chick and interjecting herself or coming over if she seen another chick near me giving me AIs. Most recently a chick positioned herself right next to me and she came between us and pushed her out the way. I've seen these chicks in a feeding frenzy but I'm the one that goes hungry! :ROFLMAO: Reactions and not results…

Thanks I will study up on framing even harder! I'm clearly not doing it right!

Social proof from chicks seems to have a negative affect for me. I used to go out with my wing woman Miss Tall. She's a tall curvy blonde, every time I tried to talk or dance with a chick they'd ask if she was my girlfriend or ignore me. They'd later ask her if she was my girlfriend, when she said no, they'd tell her to tell me they like me but would run away if I ever tried to talk to them.

I went out with my friend's girlfriend one night, she's a cute chick, a chick I met the week previous was very cold towards me when I talked to her and said aren't you out with her? I'm not a home wrecker! I thought these chicks would give me preselection but all it done was created more drama. I had a much harder time being out with these chicks than I ever did on my own.

Another chick that I was with previously seen me with this one, gave me a real dirty look and walked of snubbing me. I honestly couldn't tell you what she done to block me other than being with me. This is the attitude I seem to face regularly.

This chick has seen me talking and dancing with other chicks already, she brings it up saying she's not sure where she stands with me because I'm talking to other girls. Clearly very possessive and jealous, another warning sign :ROFLMAO:

I tried to quote your last paragraph and my phone quoted the whole thing, but that is the killer! Thanks @Karea Ricardus D.

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Karea Ricardus D.

Tribal Elder
Tribal Elder
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
626
She was confused when I was trying to soft close her, I said that it was fun meeting her and we should meet up again sometime,
Oh, that's what you meant by soft close. I recommend you never use soft closes. Always time bridge. I will elaborate below.
she said really? Why? I'm very weird!
And, always qualify before you time bridge. The fact that you didn't qualify is the reason why she asked this question. So... (1) as early as possible you build compliance (2) and as she starts to comply you start complimenting her and (3) tell her that you like her (4) and why.

Now she won't wonder why you want to see her (in her mind without qualification, you just wanna get laid and it's not about her specifically). Then make specific plans for a specific time, place, and date, ideally with other people (YOUR friends not hers)... that's the time bridge.

Lastly, you exchange numbers as a confirmation of these plans, a mere afterthought. And then you try meet her before the group meeting you invited her to (which never actually has to take place).

All of this is typical Dallas Crew game by the way, but I've used it countless times. I must have invited more than 100 girls to these regular roof top parties a friend of mine used to throw, possibly more than 200.

I think 2 or 3 of them ever actually showed up there. I even used it when I was in a different city just as a sound bite. The communication here is "I wanna see you again, let's make plans", and they pretty much get it.

"Then why not just ask her out", you may ask. Because it's a frame that gives her more power. It's almost framed as a "date" that way, but asking her to join a group thing you're doing anyway allows you to stay in control (I guess there's a better wording for that).
I might be blind, I don't see how I was put in a chasing frame in point 3, I had to cancel due to isolation.
Yeah, that part was fine. The chasing is this bit: "I tried rearranging and she made it very difficult". That is her making you chase again.
she tried to play a silly game saying it depends how long it takes me to reply to her texts, so I stopped and didn't persist.
Well, that solves the riddle whether this girl is autistic or a master at the game. Haha. Clever girl! "Depends how long it takes you to reply to my texts", hilarious. You have yourself a badass at your hands.
Social proof from chicks seems to have a negative affect for me. I used to go out with my wing woman Miss Tall. She's a tall curvy blonde, every time I tried to talk or dance with a chick they'd ask if she was my girlfriend or ignore me.
It's fine, you just let them know that you and her are just friends. Your target may still doubt if that's true but it'll just make you all the more attractive. Social proof is the most powerful weapon in our arsenal by far. Mystery pegs it at 80% of attraction.

You already have a lot of social proof! That's fucking great and a huge advantage... play with this some more because once you learn to wield this weapon you can pull the majority of nights.
They'd later ask her if she was my girlfriend, when she said no, they'd tell her to tell me they like me but would run away if I ever tried to talk to them.
Wait are these girls under 20? Or are you in Asia? They run away shy?
I went out with my friend's girlfriend one night, she's a cute chick, a chick I met the week previous was very cold towards me when I talked to her and said aren't you out with her? I'm not a home wrecker! I thought these chicks would give me preselection but all it done was created more drama. I had a much harder time being out with these chicks than I ever did on my own.
Introduce them to each other, it's a power move. I have a friend who hadn't been laid in years, let's call him V. Then one day he was staying in a youth hostel and a girl got into him and then another saw that, and he fucked them both within short order.

Same happened to me, it's in my journal, I introduced two female friends of mine to each other this year and one came over to mine and started trying to kiss me, the other asked me out for 1:1 dinner. I wasn't into them but just introducing them to each other they both went from platonic to wide open.

You might almost argue it's easier to lay 2 girls than 1.
Another chick that I was with previously seen me with this one, gave me a real dirty look and walked of snubbing me. I honestly couldn't tell you what she done to block me other than being with me. This is the attitude I seem to face regularly.
There must be something in your behavior that's causing this. Maybe something in your verbals or your body language that gives off player vibe or like you're trying to hide something or avoid the girls meeting each other. I'm not sure what this is exactly.

Outwardly your frame should be "all these girls are just friends". Anyone, be it a guy or a girl, asks you... "who's she?" You always say "she's my friend". That doesn't mean you're not fucking. But, she is a friend. And that's your frame.

Just imagine the tables reversed. There's a girl you like, and she is talking to some other guy. You ask her about him, and she says "oh, he's just a friend". Now, maybe you doubt that. Maybe you think they're fucking. But she's made it clear that she's available, yes? Plus, you're a bit jealous.

This effect is 10x stronger for women. They respond very strongly to jealousy where many guys would get upset or discouraged, women get very motivated.
This chick has seen me talking and dancing with other chicks already, she brings it up saying she's not sure where she stands with me because I'm talking to other girls. Clearly very possessive and jealous, another warning sign :ROFLMAO:
Your verbal game seems to be messy, if girls are this confused. Try to structure your interactions a bit as I described above to where you build compliance, then qualify, set frames, introduce sexuality, time bridge, build comfort, in a logical sequence and things will get less confusing for her and for you.

Girls have natural game but they also have no idea what's really going on, they're flying by the seed of their pants too, and they don't really "understand boys" either.
I tried to quote your last paragraph and my phone quoted the whole thing, but that is the killer! Thanks @Karea Ricardus D.
Glad you like it!

EDIT: just had another thought, social proof may be working against you also because girls are worried about reputation and about getting judged. This can be fixed by setting discretion frames and nonjudgmental frames.
 
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DarkKnight

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
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Messages
1,576
) She kept coming back and blocking me from meeting new girls,
do not allow her

I've seen these chicks in a feeding frenzy but I'm the one that goes hungry
dont allow her to interject buddy. Push her out with body language.

She's a tall curvy blonde, every time I tried to talk or dance with a chick they'd ask if she was my girlfriend or ignore me
hmmm sounds good to me.. You got her number? Sounds more interesting than the girl who causes the headache

I can't decide if she is very inexperienced or game level 10,000!
Alek has a good article about how moving on dislodges a man... This has been going on for way too long, usually I am only patient with this when a girl is young and there are social frame issues. Meanwhile I keep focusing on other girls.
 
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weekendwarrior

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
May 3, 2020
Messages
141
Thanks @Karea Ricardus D. I'll start time bridging from now on, I've never had an issue with soft closing after telling them I've had fun hanging out with them and we should go out again before, it always seemed to be enough of a compliment and a reason. I usually don't know much about the chick; I've met them in a club where it's too loud for us to talk so could only compliment their style.

I tried to make specific plans but couldn't even get her to commit to a day. It was very difficult, I put it down to her being drunk and gave up at that point. I'm surprised she wanted my number when I went to walk off and didn't expect her to text me. The texting that followed could be its own post, I took failing to set up a date again as a rejection. I ignored her when I bumped into her when we were out, she approached me and started chasing from here.

I understand the concept and wasn't going to question it. I usually keep asking a chick out very casual and low key, there isn't many group activities going on, but I will start using this!

She made it difficult by playing games, I wasn't having it and stopped playing immediately because I wasn't falling into her chase trap. She overstepped her mark with the power grab attempt to get me to reply faster, she complained about how slow I replied before this, and ironically mirrored my response times. She clearly loves playing her games. I don't feel I was chasing because I wasn't playing, though she certainly thinks she's a badass.

If they'd talk to me, I'd tell them she was just my friend but half of them would blank me. I laughed of multiple rejections to Miss Tall who witnessed these chicks eyeing me up, giving me AIs, she even pointed out a chick checking me out, I got nowhere when I approached her to which she didn't understand. That chick later asked Miss Tall if she was my girlfriend and asked her to tell me she liked me, she still blanked me when I went back up to her later. Honestly, I felt stupid, I thought Miss Tall must have been having a laugh, but this chick stalked me around the dancefloor the rest of the night, she just wouldn't talk to or dance with me.

I'll try playing with social proof and preselection again, I know it's highly rated, but I got nowhere in almost a year going out with my chick friends and pulled extremely easily when I went out solo. I have social proof and preselection in spades, the bouncers and owners shake my hand, some bar maids I know blow me kisses, other chicks I know run over to hug me, I have chick friends, I know the photographers and occasionally have an ex or two circling around.

These chicks are 18 – 21, you can drink and go to clubs at 18 here. They run away shy, eye me up and then ignore me when I approach. Every time it happens, I feel like a jackass.

I'll try introducing these chicks more, every time I've introduced chicks to my chick friends they just get jealous and bitch about them. I introduced this chick to Miss Tall, later I was telling a DHV story to her which involved Miss Tall, and she sulked and gave a dirty look as soon as she was mentioned.

I think I give of a player vibe; a lot of guys say wow you must get laid every night after they see the preselection at work and the chicks checking me out. I've been described as manly and dominant by my wing, chicks, and a gay guy. One of my mates' girlfriends commented I could get any girl I wanted, and I've been accused of getting around a lot, yet I clearly suck with chicks.

Ironically "these chicks are my friends" is my frame and my default answer, I've witnessed the jealousy in action, yet I find I get the reaction without the result. I'm clearly doing something wrong!

Maybe my verbal's are messy, I'll follow the structure you laid out. I always assumed this was a push for monogamy asking me to stop talking to other chicks so that she feels that she's got me exclusively. If I've read this wrong, then I need to clean up!

I've loved the whole thing! Thank you for taking your time to help, I really appreciate all the advice! I'll start working harder on setting discretion and non-judgemental frames.

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weekendwarrior

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
May 3, 2020
Messages
141
@DarkKnight thanks buddy, I have tried blocking her out with body language and being very cold, blunt, and dismissive because I've lost interest several times, I've auto rejected. At times I've completely ignored her, but after getting blanked by the chicks that were checking me out, and she's worked hard to win me back over it's easy validation rather than feeling like I've got the sex appeal of a potted plant after being blanked.

I've got Miss Talls' number, but I'm not attracted to her, she's too fake for my taste, nothing about her is real, but she's fun to hang out with. I assumed good for preselection, but this hasn't paid of yet.

Thanks again buddy I'll check out the article, I agree it has been going on way too long but sometimes it is extremely slim pickings. Honestly on Saturday night, in the busiest club in town there were just over 100 people and about 20 chicks. There used to be at least double this, the living crisis has had a huge impact. I had social ties to 16 of these chicks ranging from ex's, ex's friends, friends, and barmaids, not a lot of scope to meet chicks.

This chick is young, she's 19 and I have over a decade on her, maybe it’s a social frame issue but her friends like me and keep encouraging her to get with me. Maybe this is added pressure? Either way I've run out of patience. I might try to pivot her or just completely drop her altogether; feeling like a potted plant is looking like a better option for my own self respect.

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DarkKnight

Cro-Magnon Man
Cro-Magnon Man
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If you have truly lost your patience put the ball in her court. She is probably using you for validation right now and you need to close that avenue.

"For resistant girls use this" its an article bu chase

I feel you about the crisises, the lockdown has trashed my trusty venues as well.
 

weekendwarrior

Space Monkey
space monkey
Joined
May 3, 2020
Messages
141
Thanks @DarkKnight I've truly lost my patience with this chick.

I put the ball in her court for the third time, we arranged a date in a few days time, she told me she was coming back from out of town that day but she didn't know when but she's happy to go out. I told her that's fine I'm working until late that night (even if she was on the last bus she'd be back in time).

I send a check in text on the day and she replied telling me she wasn't coming back that night, so she didn't even cancel the date until I prompted her and she didn't even say sorry! The only redeeming factor is she asked what day I'm free.

I said I might be free in a few days time, she asked me to let her know. This was at the time we were meant to be out, so I went radio silent for a day or so.

I reach back out to confirm I'm free to which she told me she thought I ignored her so she's made other plans. I reply cool non needy no worries way and add a take away "maybe another time". She's clearly learned game from me, she's started mirroring everything I do and decides to set a chase frame. I never set chase frames when she's complying to meeting so she's over gamed me here and I'm rejecting.

She's getting ignored, she's playing games again so I'm completely done. She's had too many chances, wasted to much of my time and is a total headache that I can do without. I dropped my standards for this chick and have never had to work so hard. Game over

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