Chase, Chasing and Chasing Red Pill...

[Drck]

Chase, you usually have good points, however I quite disagree about what you wrote in general about Red Pill and manospefere. Don't forget, lots of contributors are quite skilled in getting laid, they've been through relationships, and there are always several ways to accomplish the same thing (get laid)...

We are just people, sex is one of the most natural thing there is - without it none of us would be around... There is no way that our fathers and grandfathers new so much about seduction, they probably didn't know even the basics - yet each of them got laid, we are the proof...

Don't know how much you guys know about marriages in Europeans or Latinas, but the marriage is simply different, even though the situation is rapidly changing as well, unfortunately everybody is adopting the US style of living...

It was not unusual in Europe that mom had more traditional role of, well, of being a mom... She was cooking, cleaning, taking a great care of children,... All that after work and over the weekends... Woman was naturally more feminine while the guy was masculine... That wasn't any exception, that was a norm in most families. As a result of good family life, those countries had overall low crime rate, low drug use, and pretty good and inexpensive education and access to healthcare system...

As far as I'm aware, similar situation is (rather was) among Latinas, they take or took a great pride in being feminine women, true moms in household...

I know way more Latinas that still keep that lifestyle than don't, although situation is also different as for example there is a huge growing percentage of single moms... I also know Latinas that are tired of being a good mom, but they do it anyway, for the children... There are many Latinas though who are living on their own with the child, without a man, and she is getting money from the father and/or government... The percentage of single moms appears to be growing...

I could be wrong, but I just don't see the traditional feminine moms here in USA... There are very few traditionally oriented feminine moms here... The girls and women here, there is just no way that they cook and clean, taking a good care of their children... Some may, true, but the majority just won't...

So where does the bitterness come from? From unsatisfied relationships. Men have full right to be bitter for one reason - the quality of women here in USA is simply very low. You guys here are always playing defensive role, you alway think that today's guys have to improve seduction skills and therefore they have to adjust to the modern women... Well, I quite disagree, because it should be women that adjusts her life to the man, and not the other way...

Today's Men, here in USA, should be demanding quality women, quality wifes and quality mothers. Without men's leadership, women are simply doing what they want, and we can see the result today everywhere. Today's situation is not really a fault of women, it is the failure of us, men....

We men tolerate poor quality of women here, we adjust to their style of living - in stead of them adjusting to ours... That he problem... We men can survive without women for decades. They, however, can't survive months without us.... We hold the True Higher Value as protectors and providers, not them... Don't throw this value away...

So that's where the bitterness comes from... An average good and smart guy today works very hard, he cares about that pretty girl, he would do everything for her - built house, built stores, get her a car, get her nice clothes, buy her expensive ring... But what does this guy get back? He can't get laid, he gets dumped, SHE divorces him and he ends up on the street, paying for the house he built, just so she - poor innocent girl - can have comfortable life... And all the fools protect HER instead of him, all the fools feel sorry for HER, in stead of realizing that it was he who got really screwed...

If you guys think that this man didn't do enough, that he's got to do more and more for another girls, that he's got to study intensively seduction for the next 3-5 years in order to overcome bitterness and get laid with another pretty looking but poor quality pussy, while she is doing literally NOTHING to keep the good guy around, well, that's just your choice...

What do you, hard working and motivated guy get in rewards? What does today's good guy get from relationship with such girl? I'll tell you what, not much, minimal return. He exerts 90% of the effort (whether it is building house for her, making money or working 24/7 for years to become a great seducer) and she contributes the rest 10%... She's got all the cards in her hands now, the guys work harder and harder while girls do less and less...

This guy is a slave to her, he is a slave to the whole system... instead of realizing what's going on he only works harder and harder, for years, just so he can get a piece of hairy pussy...

----------

So where is the bitterness coming from again? Chances are that if she lives in US, and she is good looking and reasonably smart that:

* She already slept around with couple of different guys, you are only getting used pussy, and you are only lucky you won't get STDs...
* She may have your child but she will remain single, meaning that you will pay for that child while living elsewhere and have minimal access to influence the child as a dad. Also, you better double check that it is really your child, don't be a fool...
* She will not cook and clean. Duh, enough of that, you guys don't even know what does it mean to come home after long day of work and have quality meal ready on the table and clean house, it probably sounds like fairy tales from your grandma... But women still do it, just not here...
* She will most likely hire nanny to raise your child, because she "doesn't have a time" to raise your child...
* She will not take good care of you, whether it is emotional, physical or sexual care (compare to Latinas, who will). In other words, she will do minimal things, minimal satisfaction for you...
* You have to exert lots of effort to keep that relationship or marriage managed because... Well, because if you don't she will dump you without much hesitation for another guy who seems more exciting than you... You, the boring and hard working fool...
* Chances are, that she is not even 25 years old yet is already couple pounds overweight. What else to say, just wait till she hits 40's...
* She is not really that sexy (compare to Latinas)
* Chances are that she has anxiety and depression, for which she is taking medication... Just check how many women are using antidepressants in US... Should we even start talking about drugs?
* If you get divorced, and chances are quite high that you will, you will lose at least have of what you earned and invested, you will be the one one who pays alimony and/or child support for years... Not she but you....Chances are high that she will walk out of the relationship with upper hand and you'll lose most of what you worked hard for...

Can make the list much longer, but what quality is that? Where is any quality? There is no quality, you as a Man have high value, but you are selling yourself cheap... Very cheap... Again, it is incorrect to blame women, we can only blame ourselves because we simply don't demand any quality anymore, and we allow this to happen by constant supplication to women, by constant effort to make life easy on them... You know when you ask woman here in US to do the above things, you will with high probability end up alone to the end of your life... There are simply very few quality women who are willing to make YOUR life much better...

So you, the honest and hard working guy in US will not really gain much from marriage, probably not from LTR either... you are just fooling yourself because you are consuming that sweet feeling called Love... At the same time, you are risking to lose too much... There are exceptions as always, but quality of women in US, in general, is poor....

So that's the frustration, that's the bitterness... That's why the MGTOW and Red Pills, and Manosphere...

It's because THE MAN has a full right to demand QUALITY woman for himself, THE MAN has a full right to get pissed at poor quality women he has to deal with in order to get laid, and THE MAN has the right to get pissed at everybody who worships and protect women in the current insanity... If THE MAN doesn't get what he wants, well, he simply walks away because he is no longer willing to move a finger to make her more happy...

THE MAN: you, I, and any other guy who even bothers to read...

 

[Seppuku]

Hey Drck,

All what you say above is true unfortunately. It is madness, and hard to see value in marriage nowadays from a man's perspective - at least in the western world. And yes, agreed, we have a responsibility to demand quality girls.

I don't really see the contradiction with what Chase advocates here. The only thing Chase really says different is: *don't fall to victim mentality*.

I really like Franco, from francoseduction.com, and his view on this subject is that seduction is a way to restore some sort of balance into this madness. If ever your woman gets pissed at you for any reason, all she has to do is to walk into a bar with a miniskirt. Now if you learn seduction, you can be the guy walking into a bar... You're now on even grounds with her into the relationship. Thus, seduction is a way to get better terms in relationships.

I'm not sure what is the ultimate secret into a happy, long lasting relationship with a woman. I, myself, already got into a divorce although fortunately I walked out with reasonably good conditions. But from learning seduction, I took away a few useful points:

• * Never fully give what the woman wants (such as committed relationship or marriage), just give enough to make her stay;
  * VETO power. Never be afraid of losing her, and always be prepared to walk if need be. You don't have to actually walk away, just let her know that you could do it at any point.

Both will keep her on her toes. She must never be 100pct sure she owns you.

Well, that's my takeaways at least! Reality is it's all new to me, and I never had a chance to implement the above on a long time scale.

Cheers man!
Seppuku
PS. I don't want to be with a western girl anyway. Never met a latina, but the asian girls are also still very feminine.

 

[trashKENNUT]

Hi Guys,

Men are CEOs. Women are COOs. Women want to be CEOs but want the benefits of a salary. I agree. Women are blur cock here. They don't get this part. As Chase noted, they are evaluators. In today's world, the COOs can be replace by maids, chef and so on. We can learn ourselves to do what women do.

COOs are replaceable and need to be taught. CEOs need to be taught, to learn of course.

Yes, i get it. Definitely, if you look at life viciously, what does she bring to the table, or what does most women bring to the table? Close to nothing. If people say that they are baby factories, you can always use man-made methods and get off on prostitutes.

So i get it. I get it. I can go there. So prepare for your downside, your testosterone drops. Why? So you don't get married. You do a Hugh Hefner. I be your number 1 supporter, because there's too many "stupid" guys around.

Zac

 

[JayG]

Hey Everyone,

Interesting thoughts so far, especially Drck’s comments on men and their expectations of women. While I do think that some degree of entitlement or rather want of higher quality women is a good thing. I don’t think that “demanding” that standard while not wanting to change things on our end works very well in the real world, at least it hasn’t for me, nor most of the people around me.

As an example, I grew up with a friend, who from the time puberty, had “high” standards for the type of girl he could see himself with in the future. Not only that, he was very vocal about his expectations of women and would ridicule a few of us for hooking up and dating girls that to him were subpar at best. It was great that he had standards, but being grossly overweight, poorly dressed, unhygienic, and most of all, rigid in his ways has left the man a virgin in his early 30’s. Somehow I don’t think that any girl lost sleep over not being able to meet his expectations for them.

Contrast this scenario with the few friends of his who decided to initially take what the market matched them up with in terms of their value. But instead of complaining, they used those experiences to learn, grow, and “level up” so to speak, resulting in more bargaining power to eventually get the types of girls that were more to their liking.

I guess the take away point is that from my experience it’s difficult to demand specific value from people (both men and women) while not returning the type of value that the other party is interested in as well. And since it’s more difficult to convince other people to change what they value, it’s probably better to spend the time augmenting your own value.

-J

 

[trashKENNUT]

I'm pissed off at the moment.

So i am going to just say what i want to say. You are right. We selling ourselves cheap. Asian women are no different. Please do not lie to yourself. They are just good at concealing. Not all women are the same? Sure, but i am investing in something that loses its value. Children? If you look at life viciously, women manipulate children too.

At the end of the day, the patriarchy agreement is dead. That's the bottom line.

Am i harsh? Maybe. People want equality, that's why i am telling life as it is. I am not even a black and white thinker. A son of a fallen man and a narcissist mother, i can relate. They say only the paranoia survive. Obviously, people will call each other names because every man is for himself. I can only manage the damages i am doing to other people but that's my choice and my problem, and i want the whole world to recognize from where i am standing, so that they recognize where are they standing and go from there.

Zac

 

[metalbird]

Alright, guys, ready for the sad truth?

You're all wrong.

Or at least, you're only seeing part of the picture.

The quality woman you seek? She exists.

But you won't find her walking into a bar with a miniskirt.

You won't find her filling out an online dating profile.

You will find her buying groceries at the supermarket with her 3 small children and a modest ring on her finger, and if you try to hit on her, she will politely decline to interact with you.

These women WANT to make a man happy. They WANT to have a value-driven relationship in which both parties work for a happier life overall. Which is why they get married young, very young, to an average, hard working guy, who doesn't know anything about psychology or seduction, and they stay with him for the rest of their lives. You just don't hear about these women, nor do you encounter them, because THEY AREN'T ON THE MARKET.

A friend of mine, absolute gorgeous 10/10 beautiful, 22 years old, works at a supplement store at the mall to get a discount on vitamins because she's so avid about fitness. Her husband is a foot soldier overseas; she wears his dog tags around her neck. He's gone for months and months at time. Do you think she's looking to cheat while he's away? Not a chance, friends. She's keeping herself in shape, patiently waiting for those few months of leave he gets so she can see him again.

A good friend of mine's wife -- they're a bit older now, late 30s. Got married when they were about 21, 22. She was a virgin before she met him. Got three kids now, and they've been through a lot, but I guarantee neither of them is looking to get some 'side action' or leverage their SMV for anything else. They wouldn't trade what they have for the world.

Here's the real deal guys: we reap what we sow. I love this site, I really do -- it's good advice, it works, and it's made my life orders of magnitude better in the years I've been reading Chase's articles. I'm not gonna go crazy and say "the nice guys really win" or anything like that. The guys who get women like this, they're probably pretty swell guys, and probably have some streaks of "natural" in them that make them sexually attractive. But you have to understand, women who don't play games are looking for men who don't play games -- and they go faster than free tamales on a Sunday morning in Mexico.

Sometimes, you have to remember the words of Lynyrd Skynrd: "Be a simple kind of man."

 

[trashKENNUT]

metalbird,

Or at least, you're only seeing part of the picture.

Don't you think the possibility that you are seeing part of the picture, like i just did?

The quality woman you seek? She exists.

But you won't find her walking into a bar with a miniskirt.

You won't find her filling out an online dating profile.

You will find her buying groceries at the supermarket with her 3 small children and a modest ring on her finger, and if you try to hit on her, she will politely decline to interact with you.

Doesn't mean she walks into a bar only! MY god or My Eckhart tolle, please. She will be on an online dating profile but mask herself with her husband and marriage picture. I know. I seen numbers of it too.

These women WANT to make a man happy. They WANT to have a value-driven relationship in which both parties work for a happier life overall. Which is why they get married young, very young, to an average, hard working guy, who doesn't know anything about psychology or seduction, and they stay with him for the rest of their lives. You just don't hear about these women, nor do you encounter them, because THEY AREN'T ON THE MARKET.

A friend of mine, absolute gorgeous 10/10 beautiful, 22 years old, works at a supplement store at the mall to get a discount on vitamins because she's so avid about fitness. Her husband is a foot soldier overseas; she wears his dog tags around her neck. He's gone for months and months at time. Do you think she's looking to cheat while he's away? Not a chance, friends. She's keeping herself in shape, patiently waiting for those few months of leave he gets so she can see him again.

Not really.

They didn't know any better, just like most of our mums. I can tell you this for a fact. Now, you said that this women married young or should i say, before 24? because i seen enough of it as well.

There's many reasons. If you are willing to hear, let's hear this out.

- didn't know any better
- enough attention from guys since young
- genuine beauty who all too often recognize her sexual market peak
- had a good family that she assumes all guys are good people
- strong father figure or chill father figure
- low testosterone
- channel testosterone onto fitness
- haven't had novelty/sexual awakening yet

You want me to tell you a story? A good friend, Pretty girl, Her boyfriend was out for a month overseas. Horny as fuck. Her face? Looks like she will never cheat.

And the key word here is 'she looks like she will never cheat'. And this goes to my very first sentence


I guess the point is make sure no sexual awakening huh?

A good friend of mine's wife -- they're a bit older now, late 30s. Got married when they were about 21, 22. She was a virgin before she met him. Got three kids now, and they've been through a lot, but I guarantee neither of them is looking to get some 'side action' or leverage their SMV for anything else. They wouldn't trade what they have for the world.

That's what everyone rationalize.

. The guys who get women like this, they're probably pretty swell guys, and probably have some streaks of "natural" in them that make them sexually attractive. But you have to understand, women who don't play games are looking for men who don't play games -- and they go faster than free tamales on a Sunday morning in Mexico.

Women play games, some level of it.

For sure, i have seen girls meet guys at school and they married now. They are my past classmates. As Chase said once, and i will said it to affirm it, "Even if she cheats, you would not know".

So i guess life is, at the end of the day, management of risk, huh? With health, dating, friends, everything. I guess i spoil everyone's fun and illusions.

Zac

 

[Drck]

You just don't hear about these women, nor do you encounter them, because THEY AREN'T ON THE MARKET


True dat

 

[trashKENNUT]

Bullshit.

That's like having a religious thinking where you think money comes out of a cereal box. I mean, do you guys ever think about the logistics man carrying your breads and transferring them to your grocery shopping market?

'They not on the market'. If it applies to men, which means we all are retarded pretty much?

I guess. Just like muslims think that the world must be islamic but live off the means of the West and so on. There's this delusion or process of thinking that i seem to notice among all of us.

p.s: I found my answer that we as a society, we just do not want to go deep to find answers. And what value does one goes deep find anyway...



Zac

 

[JimmyB]

I think metalbird has a point...
This site is so awesome because it is pragmatic. You can take what the writers throw out there, try it in real life, and after a healthy dose of trial and error, it works. The end goal with all of this (for me at least), is you end up finding the type of girl that metalbird is talking about. And I do believe they're out there. I think I am with one now. I think I was with one before but I screwed up. The whole point with this site's material is that when you do find a girl like metalbird is talking about, you won't screw it up. You close and you are able to recognize how great what you have is, because you've seen every other type of girl out there. Usually, I think you're right that they are young. You don't want a girl who has been sexually adventurous with lots of men.
"And the key word here is 'she looks like she will never cheat"
I guess at the end of the day, you can't know for sure whether or not a girl is cheating on you. All you can do is make sure things go well, and if they continue to and your relationship is happy, then your relationship is a success. I think worrying about your partner cheating on you is a waste of energy. Cross that bridge when it comes and just make sure you're doing everything right so she doesn't have a reason to cheat! There's also girls out there with much lower sex drives so that makes cheating less of a likelihood.
Drck I think you having these assumptions is exacerbating the problem. When you hold assumptions girls are good, you allow yourself to meet good ones. It also depends where you're looking. Chances are if the location involves alcohol, the girl is not a "good" girl.

 

[trashKENNUT]

JimmyB,

I think metalbird has a point...
This site is so awesome because it is pragmatic. You can take what the writers throw out there, try it in real life, and after a healthy dose of trial and error, it works. The end goal with all of this (for me at least), is you end up finding the type of girl that metalbird is talking about. And I do believe they're out there. I think I am with one now. I think I was with one before but I screwed up. The whole point with this site's material is that when you do find a girl like metalbird is talking about, you won't screw it up. You close and you are able to recognize how great what you have is, because you've seen every other type of girl out there. Usually, I think you're right that they are young. You don't want a girl who has been sexually adventurous with lots of men.
"And the key word here is 'she looks like she will never cheat"
I guess at the end of the day, you can't know for sure whether or not a girl is cheating on you. All you can do is make sure things go well, and if they continue to and your relationship is happy, then your relationship is a success. I think worrying about your partner cheating on you is a waste of energy. Cross that bridge when it comes and just make sure you're doing everything right so she doesn't have a reason to cheat! There's also girls out there with much lower sex drives so that makes cheating less of a likelihood.
Drck I think you having these assumptions is exacerbating the problem. When you hold assumptions girls are good, you allow yourself to meet good ones. It also depends where you're looking. Chances are if the location involves alcohol, the girl is not a "good" girl.

I find an enlightenment absolutes that one must do to get this "quality" or whatever bullshit. It's a score card, important but not.

1)She must be less than 26 in Asia, to be brutal. For the West, 24 at max.
2)Disqualifying yourself as boyfriend material
3)Screening
4)First Date Sex
5)Who she is
6)How her family is with her and without her, and how they treat her, and how she treats them and why

Ta da, i found the secret.

You don't want a girl who has been sexually adventurous with lots of men.
"And the key word here is 'she looks like she will never cheat"
I guess at the end of the day, you can't know for sure whether or not a girl is cheating on you. All you can do is make sure things go well, and if they continue to and your relationship is happy, then your relationship is a success.

I think no one here ever mention about girls who are loyal but change boyfriends like clothes.

So there's two types of sexual adventurous?

1)No strings attached casual hookups
2)Changing Relationships, for two reasons: The guy or herself

Chase's ex girlfriend was the latter. Most people want to find number 2, am i right you guys? Yes Spongebob

It's a grey area. You don't know

Zac

 

[trashKENNUT]

Damn...

guess should not have been too blunt..

 

[Franco]

Drck,

What you're saying isn't necessarily wrong, although you're making it sound like the U.S. is just full of horrible women; on the contrary, I think there are still plenty of good women in the U.S. that you can easily date and have happy relationships with. It might be more common in other countries, but just because it's "easier" in other countries does not make it impossible in the United States.

You're pointing out why the Red Pill and Manosphere sites exists... and you're right. It exists because men get frustrated with the actions of women, especially in today's society. However, Chase's point in the article that (I think) you are referring to is that you are not going to get anywhere by focusing on the negative qualities of women. That's what people on Red Pill and Manosphere sites get together to do: whine about the negative qualities of women.

What these men should be doing, instead, is focusing on making themselves better so that they can have happy relationships with the women that are good quality. There are plenty of good women out there who can't have good relationships with "good" men because these "good" men are also "weak" men. Chase's website teaches you how to become a strong man so that the good women will actually be attracted to you, sleep with you, and want to have relationships with you. If you aren't running into a lot of women that are wanting to have relationships with you and give you as much support as they can, then the problem isn't the women -- it's you. It means YOU are not ready to have that type of woman. You don't know what it is that you need to do as a man to keep her attraction for you high. As you already know, attraction from a woman has little to do with what you can buy for her. It has more to do with how you can lead her to what both of you want.

This is the message we want to send to guys. We want them to avoid websites that largely devote their efforts to pointing out the negative qualities of (both good and bad) women and rather focus on what you, as a man, need to do to attract the good women. That's the message that is being conveyed here. It is easy to blame women in the U.S. for lack of quality, but I've lived in the U.S. for all 28 years of my life so far and I've never had problems with women, sex, or relationships. This is simply because I've spent more time focusing on figuring out how to be what they actually want rather than complaining about what I think it is they want (or don't want) like the Manosphere/Red Pill sites do.

- Franco

 

[trashKENNUT]

I think Drck views the world as principle, approach and himself.

Here, I see Drck seeing the world as

- Principle of dating, life and clashes between him and her.
- The girl and who she is, what she values
- Her approach to life (i think this is more not mention here)
- His approach to life
- How he values himself.

Basically, what does she bring to the table?,since patriarchy is dead, right? I'm literally in 'asshole' mode because i am telling it like it is. To make a statement, which baby mama are you willing to pay to get your child away from her (like Ronaldo) or tolerate working with her if you want to raise a kid. That's the whole idea.

Zac

 

[Chase]

To expand upon what JimmyB and Franco have said here, Drck, I see two primary arguments in your post:

• Argument 1: Chase wants to strip men’s rights to feel bitter
• Argument 2: Women in the U.S. are trash and should change for men

Seppuku and Zac sought to give you some practical advice to deal with the problems you’re seeing. JayG and metalbird gave you some different perspectives.

I’ll just directly address your two points in brief.

Argument 1: Chase wants to strip men’s rights to feel bitter.

I don’t care about ‘rights’ and have never spoken about them on this website. Rights are granted to you or not granted to you by the society you inhabit. Various rights have greater or lesser import, dependent upon your society. And societies themselves decide which rights are ‘inviolable’, if any.

The point of this website is to give men tools to excel with women. Bitterness is a mindset that inhibits a man’s ability to excel with women. Thus, I advise men to let go of it.

If bitterness was useful for getting laid and, in particular, getting quality girlfriends, I’d be gung-ho about it. I’d tell men to embrace their bitterness, to engender anger, rage, and as many toxic, poisonous feelings in their bosoms as possible. I’d write articles aimed at shriveling men’s hearts into little black coprolites filled with hate and resentment. But it isn’t useful, and its effects are opposite of that desired. The bitterer you get, the less you get laid, and the lower your caliber of girl.

Yes, I know a FEW guys who are bitter as all get out and do all right with girls. I don’t know any who do all right with the kinds of girls that would make them happy. Which is the cause and which is the symptom? They feedback into each other. Either way, trying to get success with women while carrying around bitterness is like running the 100 meter dash in skinny jeans. You can do it, but it’s going to be pretty damn frustrating and you’re going to do a lot of whining after about how unfair it is that all those other guys wore runners’ shorts.

Argument 2: Women in the U.S. are trash and should change for men.

Women change for strong men.

Bitterness is the lack of strength. It is a symptom of a man’s inability to achieve or acquire what he wants.

Thus, if you are bitter, small wonder you’ve had little luck attracting the women you want in the U.S. or anywhere else. It’s why I wrote this article:

Most Important Thing to Becoming a Lover of Women? Don't Be Bitter.

Bitterness is one of the FIRST things you need to handle if you want quality women.

It’s like trying to build a business while holding onto the mindset that asking people for money is wrong. Or trying to become a famous painter or musician with the belief that marketing is beneath you. No matter how bad you want the thing, that muddled mindset shackles you down to the earth. You will never get there.

I’ve never known a bitter man who attracted quality women. Quality women have their choice of men, so why would they choose a man who carries soot in his heart?

Would you choose a woman who resented you and all of mankind and believed that you were just a lying, manipulative, crud-filled good-for-nothing who was spitting poison in her ear while he waited for the right time to screw her over? Probably not, right?

Screw that bitch. No interest.

So why would a beautiful, wonderful, incredible woman choose you?

When she could have someone just like you who doesn’t think she’s a succubus?

What you hold inside presents itself outside. Don’t think your views are safe because they’re in your head. They manifest themselves in your behavior, your opinions, even little microexpressions on your face you aren’t even aware of. Your thoughts bleed through into your reality.

This is the most insidious aspect of bitterness: it plants you deep into a self-fulfilling prophecy. Because you are bitter, you drive away quality men and women, and attract shitty men and women. Because the people around you are shitty, you see your suspicions confirmed, and decide you have a right to be bitter and anyone who claims people are contrary to what your experiences have shown you is misinformed or delusional.

I take the fact that you’re on this site and you’re posting something like this as a sign that some part of you is aware it’s in a negative feedback loop and would like to break out of it. But the rest of you is riding high on confirmation bias and will fight any attempts to kill that bitterness and approach life and women a different way.

I’ll tell you this: I’ve had plenty of awesome girls and girlfriends in the U.S. who treated me very well, and changed for me in big ways EVEN THOUGH they were already cream of the crop when I met them. And I’m happy for them and grateful for them and every one of them has been an amazing part of my life.

I had to fight through bitterness at the start of my journey. Had I let it take me, I doubt many of those awesome girls would have gone to bed with me, and I doubt any of them would’ve been my girlfriends.

Dating while bitter is like pole-vaulting on LSD. Not only are you unlikely to clear much distance, but you might end up with a pole jammed into your eye socket to boot.

I will grant you that the U.S. is a tougher dating market for locals than probably 85-90% of the world. There’s another 10-15% of places that are tougher for local men (like Australia, the Southern Hemisphere’s hell on Earth for local men who want quality women). So yeah, you’re in the top 10 to 15% of toughest places to meet quality women. That sucks. But what are you going to do about it?

You can sit in your corner and mope. Or you can change how you think about things and change how you approach them, and then change your results.

Anyway, I’ll try to do a piece on quality women in the United States soon (maybe this week). A lot of it depends on what you’re looking for. For instance, while I found many of the kinds of girls I personally like as girlfriends in Washington, D.C., I found it next to impossible to locate them in San Diego, CA (but I also know plenty of guys for whom SD is a haven of perfect girlfriend-caliber girls and D.C. would be a wasteland – it very much depends what “high caliber” means to you).

Regardless, you are free to be as bitter as you like. I’m not here to strip you of your security blanket.

But I am here to tell you your two goals do not well align.

Bitterness, or quality women. You may only choose ONE (1).

I didn’t make that rule, by the way. I’m just the messenger of difficult truths. I see a lot of men run fleeing to the manosphere in search of warm, comfortable sand to bury their heads in and pretend there are no great girls because it makes their egos feel better.

If you care more about a wet dick and a happy relationship than a few bruises on your ego in the short-term though, this is the better place for that.

Chase

 

[trashKENNUT]

It's something else.

My classmate happen to calm me down and shut me out when i'm 12. Then my classmate (another school) tried to calm me down and shut me out when i'm 15. But they never really address my argument because it was me telling it like it is.

If there's one thing and no disrespect to Chase, because all too often i see how we all tell each other as human beings to care for another, but it is at the end of the day, a camaraderie.

Camaraderie is thrown out of the window when

- social setting
- women
- human beings whom you want to please
- when people say only but offer no value to your life

Have this mentality in dating where the one who goes to jail, loses. If you notice either of the first three is happening and the last one is the dealbreaker, throw people under the bus if necessary.

It is what it is. Please consult my conscience if i am wrong. If you are older than me, more than 30 years old, Please consult my conscience if i am wrong.

Zac

 

[Chase]

Zac,

Good observation:

Camaraderie is thrown out of the window when

- social setting
- women
- human beings whom you want to please
- when people say only but offer no value to your life

Have this mentality in dating where the one who goes to jail, loses. If you notice either of the first three is happening and the last one is the dealbreaker, throw people under the bus if necessary.

I talked about this quite a bit here:

Archive: Ultimate Social Calibration: Stop Climbing the Social Ladder

Unfortunately, many people approach socializing as a zero sum game. Other people are competitors, and threats. So they work to exclude others and undermine their positions. Nightclubs are perhaps the pinnacle of this kind of social environment (which makes them such wonderful proving grounds), but you can find people behaving this way anywhere.

Typically this behavior is harshest toward low-ranking members of the group. Strangers get uncertain treatment, and receive either deference from individuals like this if they appear more socially powerful, or disrespect and exclusion if they seem less socially powerful.

Socially calibrated individuals operating from a paradigm of social abundance will tend to operate with camaraderie with everyone they meet, but still have boundaries. If you provide less value to their lives than other people around them, for instance, they can't realistically give you as much time as other people who are better fits for them. But they will at least be kind, gracious, and sometimes even helpful in their declines or how they part with you.

When you learn game, you have to choose whether you want a shark-like style or a comrade-like style. Each of these attracts a certain type. The shark-like social climber seems very attractive to other social climbers who are beneath him on the ladder, and sometimes attractive to those just above him but who view his potential and see him as a great potential ally. The comrade-like socializer tends to be less appealing to social climbers, but more appealing to other comrade-like individuals, regardless of how much higher or lower on the social totem pole they are.

Generally I recommend guys train themselves up as comrade-like types, simply because the friends and girlfriends you get this way are the type who will stick with you and provide consistent value to your life even when you are down, and won't try to leech from you or back-stab you when you are up. However, I realize the glitz and glam of the climbers has a certain appeal to a lot of folks, and they long to have the experience of the Top Spot, where everyone else in the group idolizes and defers to them. Climbers usually aren't the top of the top of the totem pole (to stay long at the top, you must be a leader and an alliance builder, and climbers aren't so good at these), but sometimes if you've got it in your system, the only way to get it out of your system is to go and do it.

Once you've had your fill of climbers and back-stabbers and folks who throw you under the bus for middling social gains, however, that may be a sign it's time to switch from climber-mod into comrade-mode, screen out the climbers, and screen in the comrades who genuinely have your back.

Chase

 

[Chase]

Post on finding caliber women in America:

The Unicorn Hunter

Includes a point-by-point discussion of your 10 bullets about why American women are no good, Drck.

Chase

 

[trashKENNUT]

Chase,

Your article will serve everyone extremely well. If you have experience handling families or get people who knows how to have the "house" together, it be great.

All successful couples, happy couples, all have their families towards a certain particular goal, where the parents take care of the child or barbeques every month. There's almost close to no agenda on all this things. Their parents are not crazy.

You can find a unicorn and manage the damages if her family is crazy, but what do you think? Just don't do visitation all too often? This is very different context when families are of the Indians, Chinese and the Asians, which will dissolve within the next 50 years, i believe.

I guess operant conditioning or visitation conditioning (haha) is something new. It's happening now where people feel like 'Sweden'. IT's so profound to note this around the world where people feel close but there's always some distant. The way the internet exposes us though. Everyone is fighting for their right to believe in their own ideas.

Zac

 

[Drck]

Good answers, thanks guys.

I don't really disagree, I am simply looking at the same thing (girls) from different points of view. I just returned from chasing a hot girl - muah, you should have seen her - and I'm really exhausted for more extensive review, but at least couple answers:

---------------

Franco: "What you're saying isn't necessarily wrong, although you're making it sound like the U.S. is just full of horrible women"

Franco: "You're pointing out why the Red Pill and Manosphere sites exists... and you're right. It exists because men get frustrated with the actions of women, especially in today's society"

>>>> Rather than that, we have to understand the NATURE of women and men. Women are naturally more submissive (feminine) and men more dominant (muscular). Women's thinking is based on Emotions, men's thinking is based more on logic.

In simplest words, women always submit to most Dominant men. If we look at our history, Stronger man won over Weaker man in physical fight, and the Stronger simply took over his woman. We can talk about single primitive men, small clans thousands of years ago or the whole nations today, but generally this remains true. In order to survive women simply had to submit to Stronger men, many times they had no choice. Seeing some male more dominalt is simply emotional to her, and she thinks (and choses) based on her emotions... That is how her brain is hardwired...

The same continues to apply to our society. We still have Stronger and more Dominant men, whether it is physically, mentally emotionally (or combination of all), and women usually submit to the one that she perceives as the most Dominant one. Again, it doesn't have to be the physical characteristic only, but rather a combination of all characteristics together... For simplicity we can call woman's nature Hypergamy...

But what does it mean Stronger and more Dominant? Stronger and more Dominant could be a Good Guy but also a Bad Boy. So if we eliminate losers and gays, we can have a society of Good Guys and society of Bad Guys. In reality, in OUR society there are mostly Good guys. Say 80% guys out there are Good. Those are the hard working class, working 2-3 jobs at once, studying hard, going to church, paying honestly taxes and so on. But we also have those Bad Guys, say there is about 20% of Bad Guys in our society. Those doesn't necessary have to be criminals, but say these are Assholes, Rebells, Fighters, Guys who make money under table and don't pay taxes, Guys who have not much respect for law and so on...

In the past, there were (most likely) different kind of societies. Say there were societies with 80% of Bad Boys and only 20% of Good Guys. Good Guys represented Knights (White Knights?), Educated Men, Honest Men, Hard Working Men, Men who took a good care of their health and so on... See, in those societies in the past, those Good Guys were actually minorities, thus they were perceived as more Dominant... If we read today's tales, women were always attracted to those Good Guys from the past, to those White Knight and Saviors from the past... That's because they USED TO BE more dominant - AT THAT TIME... Society however shifted, and these guys are today usually perceived as Losers for reason that they have hard time to get laid...

See the dilema? Those 20% Bad Boys today are PERCEIVED as more Dominant for simple fact that they are disrespecting the majority of society. And because of NATURE of women, most women are attracted to these 20% of guys... It is of course thousands of times more complicated than that, but if you look closely this is the core of of our society, this is how the thing called "attraction" works. Women simply go for Guys that are perceived as more dominant, that are sort of 'differen't' from the main stream...

So many of those Good guys who are in the 80% of the main stream today have hard time getting women... Sites like GC teach how to be Stronger and more Dominant man. And that is perfectly correct. Most guys studying seduction can become more Dominant by practicing and thus being able to attract more women... True, but they are remaining in the 80% of the main stream... So it is very difficult to be "Good and Dominant" guy TODAY, if that makes sense. It just takes so much energy, practice and so much effort in managing the relationships...

Now when you become the 'Bad boy' today by simply going against the main stream, your attraction (perceived Domination) simply skyrockets.

So my point is that women are not necessarily "horrible", but because of their Nature, they simply go for the most Dominant guy that is available to them... If the most Dominant guy happens to be the Bad Boy and not the Good Guy, well, the Good Guy gets simply frustrated, bitter...

The Good Guy TODAY then realizes this simple Truth, perhaps calls it a Red Pill, and he gets upset because he realizes that all his belief system, hard work and habits that he was thought are simply useless these days... All these things work against him as they suppress his Dominance by keeping him in Main Stream...

-------

Franco: "What these men should be doing, instead, is focusing on making themselves better so that they can have happy relationships with the women that are good quality"
>>>> True, that is what I was sort of talking about. The Good Guy just have to work harder and harder to appear more dominant. The Bad Boy simply says "screw it, I am not moving a finger"... and by doing that he is percieved as more attractive...

And I don't disagree at all, I mentioned several times that GC is a great site and the material amazing

---------

Zac: "Basically, what does she bring to the table?"
>>>> Exactly. The Good Guy today works very hard, at work and school, on his personal development, on learning about women, on learning seduction - but what does she do? When you think about it, he does 90% of all the effort, and she does 10%... He has minimal return... It is not that she is bad in some way, it is simply that there is no equality, the guy is over-investing while she (usually) doesn't do much...

-------------

Chase: Argument 1: "Chase wants to strip men’s rights to feel bitter"
>>>> Men (those Good Guys) simply get frustrated and bitter when they realize that they work very hard while having minimal return. Frustration and bitterness are of course counterproductive, agreed

Chase: Argument 2: Women in the U.S. are trash and should change for men
>>>> Very interesting point. I wouldn't call them trash but rather NATURE of women (as they go for the most dominant guy, who usually happens to be the 'Bad Boy').

Chase: "Women change for strong men"
>>>> Excellent point, true. But the Strong Men could be Good Guys as well as Bad Boys. The point is, that Bad Boys have it much easier to appear Dominant because they exert much less effort by simply not following the mainstream and/or rules...

So:
1. If a girl leaves Good Guy for a Bad Boy today, she is usually perceived as a slut...
2. If a girl leaves a Bad Boy(s) for a Good Guy, the Good Guy is simply getting used material, a girl who was used and abused, a girl who developed bad habits and so forth...

... Again, by realizing this the Bad Boy doesn't usually care, but what about the Good Guy? The Good Guy can simply become bitter, hurt, pissed off... It is simply because he now realized the NATURE of women and how society works overall... It is not really the woman's fault, it is how our society works, it is woman's NATURE to be attracted to the most available Dominant Male... We just can't blame women for being attracted to the most Dominant Males...


Thanks guys, Good and very Important talks...