Chase's vs Blackdragon's Prediction

[valence]

Was reading one of Blackdragon's articles today. I stumbled upon few articles where he claimed that the political left is (was) growing larger and larger, and that the US would be socialist in character in the next few decades. In one recent article about the anti-Trump protest, he theorizes that the President is just an anomaly in this trend, and that the left's juggernaut would continue after his term.

Now this is in sharp contrast to Chase's analysis, which points to a reversal in the current system. That conservatives are picking up steam, and that our society, in the following years, will resemble the 50s more than the 90s.

Definitely would be interesting to see what happens...

 

[Drck]

Could you post links? Thanks

Looking in the history, IMO human kind is moving to the left... People are more and more entitled, they want less and less responsibility, they don't want to work as hard and so forth. Which is basically what left has been doing, they want big gov that takes care of everyone, that has all the social programs and security...

 

[valence]

Sure:

http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2017/01/ ... s-marches/
http://calebjonesblog.com/evidence-no-c ... evolution/
http://calebjonesblog.com/trump-vs-hill ... -analysis/

These are just a few articles in which he claimed that.

America is definitely left now. Although there's more to 'left-leaning' than just feminism and/or 'betaization' -- if these serve as any indicators of society's stance -- there's definitely been some pushback. More women are openly admitting that they want a strong man -- that white-knighting won't wet their panties -- and in biological terms, you have selection pressure at play. Of course, since we want pussy, we'll change. But I'm preaching the choir here.

These are changing times, and whether America will lean more left, or push back against the looming monolith that is the current establishment, only time will tell.

Look forward to hearing your opinion Drck

 

[Franco]

EDIT: Moved this to "Off Topic"

Valence,

Funny you bring up this topic because Chase and I had a discussion about this very recently.

I won't speak for Chase here since that discussion was private (and he can choose to chime in if he wishes to), but from my own view, I believe Caleb (Blackdragon) is actually wrong in his judgment of Trump being as corrupt as every other politician. I believe Trump is genuinely on a mission to restore some of the conservative ideals as originally established by the Founding Fathers, and he's going to do everything in his power to attempt to change the direction of the country. Do some digging into Trump, Ross Perot, and the "Reform Party" and you'll see that Trump is not some "random anomaly" and has actually been espousing most of his current views for decades.

That being said, what I am skeptical of is how much Trump will be able to change the country. He's only guaranteed four years in office, and the President only has a fraction of the power in our governmental system (as is intended), so how much he'll be able to "reform" is still TBD. That is what makes the next four years so interesting/exciting: will Trump be able to accomplish his mission in the face of major adversity?

The country has definitely been moving toward the Left, and illegal immigration (and just immigration in general) has been a big part of that. So it'll be interesting to see what Trump can do to attempt to change the course of history for the United States.

- Franco

 

[Oskar]

EDIT: Moved this to "Off Topic"

Valence,

Funny you bring up this topic because Chase and I had a discussion about this very recently.

I won't speak for Chase here since that discussion was private (and he can choose to chime in if he wishes to), but from my own view, I believe Caleb (Blackdragon) is actually wrong in his judgment of Trump being as corrupt as every other politician. I believe Trump is genuinely on a mission to restore some of the conservative ideals as originally established by the Founding Fathers, and he's going to do everything in his power to attempt to change the direction of the country. Do some digging into Trump, Ross Perot, and the "Reform Party" and you'll see that Trump is not some "random anomaly" and has actually been espousing most of his current views for decades.

That being said, what I am skeptical of is how much Trump will be able to change the country. He's only guaranteed four years in office, and the President only has a fraction of the power in our governmental system (as is intended), so how much he'll be able to "reform" is still TBD. That is what makes the next four years so interesting/exciting: will Trump be able to accomplish his mission in the face of major adversity?

The country has definitely been moving toward the Left, and illegal immigration (and just immigration in general) has been a big part of that. So it'll be interesting to see what Trump can do to attempt to change the course of history for the United States.

- Franco

All due respect, Franco -- but what are you smoking and where can I get some? As far as I can tell, which is in concord with most people I know besides people like my ignorant uncle who writes his birther emails in ALL CAPS (and the 20% or so of Americans who actually voted for the goon... some of whom, I assume, are good people), Trump has no grand "mission". This is not a man of vision in any meaningful sense of the term, and this is certainly not a man who has any inkling of what the founding father's envisioned. This is a man who has declared war on their 1st amendment, after all; this is a man who swindles working people into thinking he will bring back industrial jobs to the US, which in reality, could only be done by extreme gov intervention (which, btw, don't the right claim to be opposed to that? Champions of the free market my ass!) degrading the American workers to the level of squalor that they would be competitive with 3rd world labor markets. Yeah... great idea guys. A man who's corruption and incompetence have him and his administration currently being investigated by the FBI for serious crimes. And you think he's going to "bring back" your "conservative ideals"? I'm very aware of his platform, and I'm sorry to tell you, it spits in the face of traditional conservatism. However, he is the republican's (so-called conservatives) wet dream, in that he'll sign whatever is put in front of him (can/does the man even read, or does he exclusively just watch FOX?) and wants to look "strong", etc., and is so easily manipulated, albeit somewhat unpredictable because of his inability to focus on anything besides his own self-aggrandizement for more than a few seconds (love the handshake tho, lol!). How you can believe this incompetent sack of shit is a beacon of hope instead of a symptom of degradation is just plain "Sad". His rise to power isn't because of his charm or any so-called "plans", but because of the failure of third-wayism, which the dems stupidly wanted (want?) to keep going, thinking they could shove a war-hawk Leyman Bro's candidate down America's throat, because they couldn't believe that anyone could take Donny The Orange Turnip seriously. The factionalism this clown has engendered in the working people is both ridiculous and incredibly divisive. And I wouldn't say he's "guaranteed" 4 years, btw. With his administrations level of incompetence, I'd be surprised if the rest of the pubs don't all turn on him before the end of summer, just to save their party before the midterms come around and sweep the lot of them away like the degenerate cesspool of opportunism and hypocrisy that they truly are. At my office, most of us have our bets laid down on him being ousted before the end of the year.

Trump isn't a winner, he is a whiner and a blowhard, who can't stand criticism so needs to create his own little "safe spaces" to protect his fragile ego. I mean, this is a man who literally has to turn off the lights and crawl under the covers before he lets a woman fuck him. Yet somehow he is a "champion of masculinity against the wave of feminism/political correctness/libruls/cucks/lazy immigrants/the establishment/whatever other garbage his handlers/speechwriters/4chan can think up to make him vaguely appeal to populist sentiment. In short, I think you're putting your flag behind a pretty weak masthead. Anyone who wants to see both masculine and feminine virtues flourish in the future, should not be aligning themselves so closely with someone who's fall will unfortunately most likely discredit the kernels of your good intentions for years to come.

He's not even a good orator -- his performances are so limp -- watching them is about as moving as being flogged with warm lettuce. It's like being mauled by a dead sheep.

I mean, this is a man who is so out of touch with reality, he thinks a multi-billion dollar wall on the Mexican border is a reasonable way of dealing with immigration (he doesn't really, it's more just a way to get people to think he's actually done something "positive". A symbol that people can say "He did this! Obama didn't do anything. Look how weak Obama was. etc. etc. ad nauseaum. I don't even need to mention the fact that he likely serves to personally profit immensely from building the wall. That should just be a given at this point.). Instead, all it's going to do is make working class Americans have to pay more money for their groceries (think: a 20% increase in produce, etc.), significantly damage Mexico's economy -- which is largely export based -- which will mean more people will actually want to leave, out of pure desperation -- while him and his contractor friends get richer, capitalizing on lower-middle class Americans' fear of "line cutters" (i.e., foreigners and the extreme poor, especially minorities) in their failure to cope with their own declining social class in a serious "how can we fix this" way; instead opting for easy lies, which they deep down know are bullshit anyway.

This isn't even the tip of the iceberg. The level of incompetence of the US's current executive administration, is truly "Sad". Hopefully these losers get thrown on the streets before they get everyone killed with their opportunistic laziness and ineptitude.

 

[Franco]

Oskar,

Not really looking to get deep into this type of discussion again. You aren't the first member on the boards to have beef with our current President. For more information, I'll re-direct you to some previous stuff that has already been stated:

• what might be going on in donald trumps mind (Chase's response is at the bottom)

The two below articles cover some my thoughts on the media and Trump, as outlined by Chase:

• Mind Control: How Media Influence Your Thoughts and Feelings
  How To Use Donald Trump-Style Persuasion

- Franco

 

[Oskar]

Oskar,

Not really looking to get deep into this type of discussion again. You aren't the first member on the boards to have beef with our current President. For more information, I'll re-direct you to some previous stuff that has already been stated:

• what might be going on in donald trumps mind (Chase's response is at the bottom)

The two below articles cover some my thoughts on the media and Trump, as outlined by Chase:

• Mind Control: How Media Influence Your Thoughts and Feelings
  How To Use Donald Trump-Style Persuasion

- Franco

Hey don't worry about it, I totally understand where you're coming from. Those articles don't have much to do with contradicting what I said, and yes, I have actually already read them. Mostly they just avoid the criticism and try and point the finger elsewhere, tbh -- which is generally all Trump supporters really seem capable of doing at this point. "Sad".

 

[valence]

EDIT: Moved this to "Off Topic

Oops, my apologies.

As Jonathan Haidt says, politics (and religion) are products of your most deeply-held moral beliefs and values. Values are what you identify yourself with. No wonder everyone is so polarized when it comes to political beliefs. But always interesting to read contrasting viewpoints.

Regarding Trump being an anomaly, I didn't mean he was a random quack who vacillates between two poles (although he might be, I have no clue. This downside of contrasting viewpoints: when you want to learn something but everybody has their own opinion, you have no idea whom to believe), but rather was a man who'd defied the leftist trend and become a Republican President. I don't think anybody but the politically savvy saw the conservative 'revolution' coming; I certainly didn't.

Franco, if this isn't too personal (please delete if it is), I read a while back that your father was a legal immigrant himself. Opposing illegal immigration is something we all can agree on. What about fair, legal immigration? I vaguely understand the economics behind legal immigration, but regardless of whether it's good or bad for our country, what do you feel about it? Your posts seem to indicate that you support slowing it down. Being the son of an immigrant himself, don't you feel conflict espousing this view? ((Don't intend this to come across as rhetorical or moralizing. It's an honest question)).

 

[Franco]

valence,

Franco, if this isn't too personal (please delete if it is), I read a while back that your father was a legal immigrant himself. Opposing illegal immigration is something we all can agree on. What about fair, legal immigration? I vaguely understand the economics behind legal immigration, but regardless of whether it's good or bad for our country, what do you feel about it? Your posts seem to indicate that you support slowing it down. Being the son of an immigrant himself, don't you feel conflict espousing this view? ((Don't intend this to come across as rhetorical or moralizing. It's an honest question)).

I am totally for legal immigration and legal immigrants. I don't think immigration would be as much of an issue if we were actually only letting in people who went through the proper naturalization process dictated by the INA. My father had to go through that, and although it's a rather long and tedious process, I believe that it makes sense for it to be that way.

That being said, in general, even legal immigrants tend to vote for the Democratic party candidates. So, while I'm not opposed to legal immigration, I am very much aware that the majority of legal immigrants are accustomed to more socialist-style nations and expect the United States to provide those same values (and more). Of course, that does not mean these are "bad" people either -- they might just have a few ingrained views about government that lends to a more liberal view of Democracy.

But the number of incoming legal immigrants seems to be vastly outnumbered by the number of incoming illegal immigrants these days, and that's the problem. That is why it appears the country is leaning far more "left" these days; in reality, it's just that we're letting in hoards and hoards of people for free who didn't go through the proper process that actually requires some time and hard work. And what do people who got in for free have in common? They usually want more free stuff. Which party is more likely to let illegal immigrants slide through, and which party is more likely to give them free stuff (i.e. welfare, healthcare, high minimum wage, etc.)? The Democratic Party, of course.

So, TL;DR, I'm for legal immigration and against illegal immigration, although I'm very much aware that the majority of immigrants, both legal and illegal, tend to lean Left and thus are causing the country to become more Left as well.

Side Note: My father is actually very conservative and mostly votes Republican, but that's because he came from a socialist country that has always felt corrupt to him, and he moved to the U.S. to get away from that.

- Franco

 

[Guest0291]

1. Why are you putting any political credibility to a PUA online blogger?

2. Why are you reading any advice from a guy that is clearly full of it? His claims are questionable, guy stated he was getting laid left and right while balding and being 250lbs here.

Not to mention he even advises you to drop your educational and financial goals just to chase women! Link here.
Das not it man. Yes, he says it's temporary, but does dropping something you need/want in any regard just for women sound like something an "alpha male" would do? Only makes it more laughable when he calls other guys pussies/manginas/betas/etc.

3. He's already been outed as a charlatan in regards to his dating life and advice, Google around. Knowing all of this, how trustworthy do you think his political theories are?

 

[BlackBolt]

America is already liberal and the trend will only continue to grow.

Most Americans wish the wealth distribution was more evenly distributed and like Sweden's... Sweden is a Democratic Socialist nation.
http://www.rawstory.com/2010/09/poll-we ... ar-sweden/
http://www.gallup.com/poll/182987/ameri ... aign=tiles

58% of Americans want single payer health care
http://www.gallup.com/poll/191504/major ... ystem.aspx

America's growing liberalism is evident in that it is now tied for the first time in history with Conservatives though Conservatives still lead on economic issues for the time being. But this study is flawed in that it doesn't get into nuanced policy issues.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/183386/socia ... aign=tiles

Around 80% of Americans support raising the minimum wage to at least $10/hr (90% Dems, 70% Independents, 61% Reps), Gun Reform about 85%, 68% support EPA clean power plan
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main ... allot.html
http://www.people-press.org/2015/08/13/ ... gun-sales/

Legalizing Weed 60% this is growing fast just look at the popularity from 2010
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... s-to-rise/

Bernie is the most popular Senator/Politician right now and the majority of Americans support his policies... He's a Democratic Socialist. Also Millenials love Sanders and they are the future of the country.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CpZGZNSUEAA6twy.jpg:large
https://morningconsult.com/senate-appro ... ubio-cruz/
http://www.vox.com/2016/2/3/10904988/be ... ution-poll

I could keep going, the people in America want a more Democratic Socialist approach. Americans want the Scandinavian model and why not Democratic Socialist nations are the HAPPIEST on Earth: These include Canada, Denmark, Switzerland, Finland, etc.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/0 ... 94041.html

@Franco
The Don of Cons will do pretty much would any establishment/insider/corrupt politician would do in his situation (minus getting rid of TPP that was good)

He's had 6 busines bankrupticies, terrible business ideas (trump steaks, gotrump.com,etc) Loss $1 billion in one year alone
http://www.npr.org/2016/10/04/496596466 ... 16-million
And conned his way out of it using other people's money... that's not a good way to run a country (sounds oddly familiar to what Wall St. did
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marty-rud ... 99572.html

He Has Over $1 Billion In Debt, Mostly Held On Wall Street... HUGE conflicts of interest where MANY PEOPLE HAVE CONTROL OVER HIM due to his debt
https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-debt ... 1483637414
https://thinkprogress.org/trump-said-he ... .v7r0bs9x4
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... trump-debt

Aaaaand he continues to cut Wall St. Regulation probably because he's the bitch boy of Wall St. what happened to Draining the Swamp and cracking down on Wall St?

He cancelled the regulation that was put in place after the 2008 crash that would protect consumers ( Dodd-Frank Act sucks but its better than what we had before the crash)
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/03/busi ... tions.html

He's hired the swamp for his team, Wall St. Insiders, Big Oil CEOS, Goldman Sachs, Betsy DeVos who literally Bought off The same Republicans who voted her in.... Drain the Swamp my Ass
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ste ... ce7aa8b9c0
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bet ... 284f251c5f

America is no longer a Democracy, it is functionally an Oligarchy ruled by the rich with unlimited Political bribery according to Princeton studies. You think Trump's team is going to do something about that when they all ARE OLIGARCHS... please!
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... lic-unive/
http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746
https://theintercept.com/2015/07/30/jim ... l-bribery/

On Day One Trump Raised Taxes On Middle-Class
https://theintercept.com/2017/01/20/on- ... omebuyers/

He whines ALL THE TIME... "I Inherited a Mess"... What The Fuck he's inherited over 18 million jobs created under Obama, the market doubled, deficit cut in half since Bush, America's nowehere near perfect now but we're WAYYY better than what we were after Bush who left us a $1.4 trillion deficit,
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter ... op-republ/

He backed down like a bitch from the debate he was supposed to have with Bernie lied about and been incredibly QUIET when Sanders has been calling him out recently... He's scared of Bernie, Savage!
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-rele ... ie-sanders
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-news-alm ... acked-out/
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ber ... et-n703296
http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/s ... st-remarks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XR8ovriGJT0
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... 2e9b6bb1fb

Trump is defintely the Don of Cons

 

[valence]

Franco-

I see, thanks for clarifying man.

and what do people who got in for free have in common? They usually want more free stuff. Which party is more likely to let illegal immigrants slide through, and which party is more likely to give them free stuff (i.e. welfare, healthcare, high minimum wage, etc.)? The Democratic Party, of course.

This line clears few things up for me. So you do believe that more racial tension is caused by economic reasons than inherent prejudice against minorities. In other words, economic reasons --> prejudice, no?

King Bert-

1. He doesn't just blog pickup-related content, but also politics and economics. Chase and Franco (not to mention other authors like Hector, Drexel) occasionally chime in on political debates. They're knowledge of pickup doesn't make them any less credible. Sure, BD doesn't strike me as someone who'd read/analyze as much as the aforementioned authors, but he seems like a fairly smart dude, plus he's libertarian. And I agree with certain libertarian viewpoints. More importantly, it's a welcome change from the otherwise vitriolic super-conservative rants all over other PUA sites.
2. Thanks for letting me know. I wasn't aware there was talk of him being a fraud. Def will take a look.

Nonetheless, I like listening to all viewpoints -- from uber-liberal to paleocon to classical liberal; almost like a fetish hence the post.

BlackBolt-

Sure, America is definitely liberal. You say it's gonna be more liberal a decade from now, despite Republicans having solid political control, plus changing times (of course, many Republicans don't have true conservative values, but many do)? Either it's confirmation bias, or I'm definitely noticing more people support conservative viewpoints -- opinions which would've almost made you a social outcast a decade ago. I'd certainly appreciate your analysis on the situation. Of why America will turn bluer.

Also, couldn't help but notice that quite a few of the links are of liberal websites.

 

[Franco]

BlackBolt,

I'm not going to address all of the individual points you've made -- I would have done that with Oskar if I was interested in getting into a political debate. That being said, as valence noted, I would consider whether or not the sources you get your news from encompass every viewpoint and allow you to see the big picture at play.

Over the last 6-8 months or so, I've done my own investigation into most of the major media outlets by reviewing content posted by them in order to gauge where they land on the political scale. What's most alarming about differing news organizations is how they "cherry-pick" stories to print. That is to say, they'll only cover things that suit their own agenda. So in order to properly get multiple sides of a debate, you need to have multiple sources with differing viewpoints.

Based on my data over these last few months, here are where I place some of your sources:

Far Left Media:

• - Vox
  - Huffington Post
  - New York Times
  - BBC
  - Washington Post

Left Media:

• - NPR
  - NBC News
  - The Hill
  - Washington Times

Bi-Partisan Media:

• - WSJ

Right Media:

• None

Far Right Media:

• None

As for some of your additional sources that are not mainstream and are likely smaller organizations, it only took a few minutes to search Google to get a rough idea of their partisanship:

• ThinkProgress - This is acknowledged as a "progressive" website who's previous editor was also Nancy Pelosi's Director of New Media. If you're working for Nancy Pelosi, you're about as Left as you can get.
  
  Mother Jones - This is also acknowledged as a "progressive" website who's Editor-in-Chief, Clara Jeffrey, has written for both Slate and Huffington Post, two of the most far-Left leaning major news media organizations.
  
  The Intercept - The Intercept is co-edited by three individuals, but two in particular are of interest. Glenn Greenwald previously wrote for The Guardian, a far-Left leaning news media organization, followed by becoming a Salon contributor, which is another far-Left leaning media organization. On top of this, Jeremy Scahill, the founder of The Intercept, recently skipped out on being in Bill Maher's discussion panel simply because Milo Yiannopolous would be present. So while Bill Maher, a Left-leaning political commentator, was open to debating with Milo, Jeremy Scahill was obviously not. He lists usual far-Left reasons for not wanting to debate with Milo, who is obviously far-Right in his beliefs.

It's easy to give plenty of links from people who despise not only Conservatives, but Trump especially, and then claim that you have made some valid arguments. But it is important to understand that there is plenty of information that you are not receiving if you are turning a blind eye to other news organizations that have not only differing opinions, but also completely different news reports as well. I would suggest supplementing your media diet with more information and keeping an open mind about things before jumping to too many conclusions.

valence,

This line clears few things up for me. So you do believe that more racial tension is caused by economic reasons than inherent prejudice against minorities. In other words, economic reasons --> prejudice, no?

For the most part, this is correct. Chase summarizes the contention in the West nicely in one of his comments to a reader in his article, Why Are Villains So Sexy?:

I don't think anyone has any bones with what you'd call 'true liberals' - people who want equal treatment for all.

The major point of contention in Western civilization right now is between those on [the commenter's] side, who want equal treatment for all, which includes most true liberals and most true conservatives, and the folks who oppose [the commenter] and everyone who wants equal treatment: those who want equal outcomes for all - the radical feminists, the communists, the forced redistributionists, etc.

These are the folks we're talking about when we're talking about the present System... the folks who run the media, academia, and the like. This is where the battle lines have drawn up in the West: between those who want equal treatment for all... and those who want to take resources and opportunities from some groups, and give these preferentially to others (unequal treatment, in the service of trying to achieve equal outcomes).

It is a losing battle -- if you give equal outcomes by using unequal treatment, then the people on the losing side of the "treatment" category are angered. If you have unequal outcomes by giving equal treatment, then the people who feel slighted by this -- generally the poor/impoverished -- are angered.

- Franco

 

[Oskar]

Quoting Franco:

it is important to understand that there is plenty of information that you are not receiving if you are turning a blind eye to other news organizations that have not only differing opinions, but also completely different news reports as well. I would suggest supplementing your media diet with more information and keeping an open mind about things before jumping to too many conclusions.

Because news organizations have political leanings, is not a valid form of discrediting facts. Funny for guys like this to be propounding being "open minded", when at the same time dismissing information because it's from news stations that disagree with their preconceived notions and wishful thinking. Tell us, Franco, what about the actual content of these stories are you suggesting is "fake"? What about the actual content of the critiques are untrue? Also, please tell us what alleged facts about Trump aren't being reported by left wing media sources that are by the right wing sources you have in mind (which you seem to be avoiding naming. Infowars? FOX News? Brietbart? Buzzfeed and random bloggers on the internet are more trustworthy than those sources.). I know you've said you're not interested in dealing with facts and are just here to soapbox a bit, but please -- why don't you give it a shot?

P.S. You do realize that your categorization of "far left", "left", etc. media is complete bullshit right? I've seen that tactic before, the "alt-right" trying to convince themselves that they're actually being reasonable, and that they aren't the "extremists:, and that only they see the truth. Lol... Pretty much no one besides entitled right-wingers looking to try and turn America into their "safe space" for preaching childish nonsense would agree with your categorization. The entire world disagrees with you. I guess that makes the rest of the world wrong though? Is the media biased? Of course. The issue, however, is pretending that you don't have to deal with actual facts because of some degree of bias. Everything isn't quite that black and white, friend.

P.P.S. Weighing on the whole direction of the US, left or right question: with the collapse of labor unions, the DNCs betrayal of the working class, and the collapse of the working class, the trend is quite clearly and has been a steady turn to the right. Look at Clinton. 50 years ago she would have been considered a middle of the road Republican. She is a complete business candidate. It looks like it moves left only if you define the spectrum in a completely abstract, cherry-picking fashion.

 

[Franco]

Oskar,

Also, please tell us what alleged facts about Trump aren't being reported by left wing media sources that are by the right wing sources you have in mind (which you seem to be avoiding naming. Infowars? FOX News? Brietbart? Buzzfeed and random bloggers on the internet are more trustworthy than those sources.). I know you've said you're not interested in dealing with facts and are just hear to soapbox a bit, but please -- why don't you give it a shot?

Right Media:

• - Fox News

Far Right Media:

• - TheBlaze
  - The Daily Caller
  - Breitbart

I'm sure someone on the Left would believe that BuzzFeed is more credible than these sources though =). If you want to talk about Fake News though, I can do that too:

Left Fake News:

• - Addicting Info
  - Occupy Democrats
  - U.S. Uncut

Right Fake News:

• - InfoWars

Keep in mind in the previous post that I'm not stating that any of those Left-wing media sites are "fake" news. They just have a liberal bias -- just like I believe Fox News, TheBlaze, Breitbart, etc. all have a conservative bias. There is no such thing as "bi-partisan" news from what I've seen -- I've only listed Wall Street Journal as bi-partisan because it's the closest thing to it that I've seen. However, you'll hear the Left scream at WSJ and say "you guys aren't critical enough of Trump!" while you'll hear the Right scream at WSJ and say "you guys are too hard on Trump!" Ironically, the fact that both sides dislike some of WSJ's articles goes to show that it's the closest thing to bi-partisan that you can have!

Both sides enjoy calling each other "fake" news, but in reality, both sides are just painting different angles of the same picture. In order to get an idea of what the actual picture looks like, you need to be looking at both sides of it.

EDIT:

The entire world disagrees with you. I guess that makes the rest of the world wrong though?

I guess I'm alone in my beliefs, then! =)

- Franco

 

[Drck]

I can't disagree with Blackdragon, good points, that is my thinking. At the same time, everything is just all relative... (Added: Reading Franco's response, I didn't read Blackdragon talking about Trump as being corrputed as every other politician, I don't agree with that)

My overall impression is that our society is moving to the left (from being conservative to being more liberal), I have this impression for years. I don't agree with leftist liberal and socialist agenda, to me it makes no sense. It may be great social programs, great ideas, great benefits, but the bottom line is - who is going to pay for it?

Take for example Obamacare. I believe that it is a great idea. Why shouldn't everybody have easy and inexpensive access to healthcare, in the richest country of the world? It makes perfect sense, it is a great idea... But who is going to pay for it? In reality, the hard working people are already overtaxed. They are drowning in taxes. They already pay thousands and thousands of dollars every year just to have health insurance... In the mean time, we have 94 millions of Americans who can work, but don't for whatever reasons... Who is supposed to cover all the financial burden? Is it a responsibility of people who work 2-3 jobs just to get by, and hardly cover their own bills? So Obamacare might be a great idea, but in reality it is dysfunctional... It is a great ideology that doesn't work in real life...

Which brings us to Trump... Trump is a realist, not idealist. Trump has already created tens of thousands of jobs. Trump has created 10 billion dollar Empire. Trump has great experience, great business and political knowledge, great ability to construct real and big things - great buildings, great relationships, great connections, great success... (and great wall, LOL)

We have to understand though that Trump is not really a true Republican, he is not really too much of that 'right wing' conservative... He is rather in the middle, he knows and understands that he will attract most people in the middle - people who are using more of Common Sense thinking...

That is what I believe, he is able to see things from multiple views, not just from Left wing or Right wing points of view... Those two points of view are rather limited, they both have their own specific agenda, one is too liberal and the other too conservative... In this sense, overall people are (or were) moving to the Left, from conservative towards liberal...

I believe that people should give Trump a chance, especially those on the Left... Give him 2-3 years before you start criticizing him... Put your own Leftist and Rightist agendas behind, forget your own preferences and philosophies - and just watch what he does, not what he says...

...He's been there only one month, yet he's already accomplished many Common Sense things... Many great things in such short period of time...

I'll tell you, I listened to the Trump's speeches in the past 2 weeks, and to me it is truly refreshing. I feel the enthusiasm, I feel like I want to contribute more to the System again, because he is already building that Common Sense Great American System... System in which most normal thinking people want to live...

Trump is a Great Builder, perhaps the Greatest that has ever lived on this planet... I say let Trump build then...

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So because of Trump, and the enthusiasm that will eventually come (by people having good jobs, good benefits, good opportunities...) I became to believe that people will eventually start shifting to the Right. Not to the conservative Republican Right, but rather towards the middle, towards the Common Sense thinking again in which both - Left and Right - can greatly benefit again...

I didn't read Chase's article, but if this something what he means he's probably right... I don't believe that people will move towards today's classical Republican conservative position, being too conservative is becoming simply outdated for our society...

 

[Oskar]

I can't disagree with Blackdragon, good points, that is my thinking. At the same time, everything is just all relative... (Added: Reading Franco's response, I didn't read Blackdragon talking about Trump as being corrputed as every other politician, I don't agree with that)

My overall impression is that our society is moving to the left (from being conservative to being more liberal), I have this impression for years. I don't agree with leftist liberal and socialist agenda, to me it makes no sense. It may be great social programs, great ideas, great benefits, but the bottom line is - who is going to pay for it?

Well prepare to sign up at your local IWL chapter, because if the only thing stopping you from becoming a socialist is the bottom line question "who's going to pay for it", there's actually a good answer. Machines. Automation frees people up from having to work shit jobs, we can produce incredible surpluses, and build a society that would make your amazement at Trump's ability to build things look like termites building a mound compared to humanity's true potential.

Also, just wanted to point out that, as I said would be the case earlier, no Trump supporter in this thread has shirked the stereotype of Trump supporters ignoring/always playing down real criticism and attempting to point the finger elsewhere. Still, just "Sad".

 

[Franco]

Drck,

Some of Caleb's views on Trump (and the Presidency in general, if you're curious):

• Why I Don't Support Trump
  Why Bernie Sanders Is The Future
  If I Was President

- Franco

 

[Drck]

Damn, Oskar, you are obviously smart guy... but where are you coming from...? That just doesn't make any sense... I am only guessing, it is because of media which distort the 'reality' by their own leftist agenda...

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Trump has no grand "mission". This is not a man of vision in any meaningful sense of the term

>>>> What do you mean? Trump has clear mission. For example:

* Create good jobs (and he's already created tens of thousands of jobs) in USA, not overseas
* Create a great economy again by reducing taxes and regulations, by creating lots of jobs
* Fair trade with other countries where both sides benefit
* Replace Obamacare with something better, functional
* Support law enforcement (because as it is, people respect cops less and less). Where do we want to live, in some jungle where people target cops?
* Support veterans (because after all efforts in the past administration, they are still huge problems)
* Rebuild inner cities
* Remove CRIMINAL illegal aliens (sorry for the caps, but that word is being omitted by leftist media for unknown reasons)
* Build the wall (mainly to prevent people with CRIMINAL history or intentions to enter USA)
* Clean the streets from drugs and drug dealers
* Remove ISIS and similar radicals from surface of this Earth

... I can go on and on, but is there anything wrong with these? Are they not clear? What is wrong in wanting to live in safe country where people have lots of opportunities to work and make good income?

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This is a man who has declared war on their 1st amendment

>>>> Actually, quite in contrary. Trump (if you ever listen to him) is using 1st amendment every single day. 1st amendment is about free speech, but free speech works both ways. If liberal media are not honest about describing what he does and says, they should be confronted. People should know that they are reporting distorted news...

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degrading the American workers to the level of squalor that they would be competitive with 3rd world labor markets

>>>> Have you ever seen 3rd world labor market? Trump, on the contrary, has already created tens of thousands of jobs in USA. Last time I checked, USA is not 3rd world country, despite Obama's great effort

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Trump isn't a winner

>>>> Damn. So he lost to Hillary? He lost to almost two dozens of top republican candidates? You are really confusing me now... So he is actually a president because he is a loser?

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He's not even a good orator

>>>> True, I agree. But it is not really about giving great speeches. It is about DOING things... (sorry for the caps, but it's just easy way to emphasize words)

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Instead, all it's going to do is make working class Americans have to pay more money for their groceries (think: a 20% increase in produce, etc.), significantly damage Mexico's economy

>>> That is true, prices will most likely go up, nobody talks about that... But Trump doesn't hide that he cares about USA, not about Mexico, China or other countries. He doesn't care about globalism, he wants what is good for Americans, and here in USA... Wasn't that one of the reasons why he won? Why do Americans have to take care of everyone else but Americans? Let everybody else worry about their problems, there are plenty of problems to solve in USA...

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This is obviously extensive topic, but what is wrong with for example these:

* Creating stronger law and enforcement, creating stronger military?
* Removing drugs and criminals from the streets, including criminals that are in USA not legally?
* Cutting down taxes, so hard working people can actually make some money?
* Wanting American companies employ Americans?
* Replacing Obamacare which is already collapsing with more efficient and competitive programs?
* What is wrong with destroying Isis and other similar groups?
* Holding media responsible for what they report, calling them out if they report what is not true? Did leftist media actually give him even a chance?

 

[Drck]

Oscar: Machines. Automation frees people up from having to work shit jobs, we can produce incredible surpluses, and build a society that would make your amazement at Trump's ability to build things look like termites building a mound compared to humanity's true potential.

>>>> That is excellent point. We are not there yet, but here I agree