Cold approached a girl, became friends, caught feelings

[iceberg slim]

Yo, so I am in some rocky territory with a girl-friend (not sexual) and I'm not sure how to proceed. Some advice would be much appreciated.

Two summers ago I approached a girl, got her number, and went on 3 dates with her. We really clicked. However, she had just gotten out of a relationship in which she was engaged to a guy who cheated on her, so when I met her she was in a bad place. I remember putting my arm around her and she started to tear up because she was so sensitive to physical touch. For this reason, the seduction failed, in addition to some bad game on my part--but even with good game I think it would have failed. We never even kissed. But I genuinely liked her so I pursued a friendship with her, and we have been good friends for the past 2 years. She has actually been a major source of friendship and emotional support for me, as I don't have a ton of friends and don't click with many people (though I do have some friends).

A few months back we were having dinner and she was looking hot as hell in some yoga pants, and it triggered some very painful feelings of unrequited desire/loneliness in me. For context, when I met her I was doing well with girls, but lately things haven't been going as well so I am susceptible to neediness/oneitis based on scarcity. I also live in a city that is rainy and depressing for much of the year, and is notorious for being bad for dating, some say the worst major city in the US.

She isn't even really my type (I prefer white girls with dark hair and a Mediterranean look, and ethnic girls; she is white with blond hair), though I am definitely attracted to her. She is in her late 30s and wants to have kids, and is actively dating guys trying to find a long term partner. I'm not necessarily against having kids but don't want them anytime soon since I am still getting my career going (wasted a lot of time in my 20s not applying myself). If it wasn't for her our misalignment on the kids issue, I think it's very possible we would have gotten together, since we have amazing chemistry. She's had 10 boyfriends and goes on shitloads of dates with guys she meets on apps, but rarely meets one she likes. We have already discussed our future relationship and concluded it is unlikely we can remain friends when one of us partners up because the origin of our relationship is me cold approaching her and us dating romantically (though it went nowhere).

After I was triggered by her hot ass, I went to Colombia and hooked up with a chick, which I posted about, which was a great reprieve from the feelings of neediness/scarcity, but now I'm back to those same feelings.

We used to be very flirty and joke about having kids together. After I was triggered by her I told her that the flirtation needs to stop, and that I can't hang out that often because I need to protect my heart, so she knows what's up. The problem is I keep thinking about her and desiring her, and feel like I am sliding into a painful neediness. We hung out today and I invited her to a music show, but now I am wondering if that was a good idea or not.

Should I terminate the relationship to prevent myself from becoming a needy little bitch and/or experiencing heartbreak when she finds someone, or is there a way forward that doesn't prematurely get rid of someone from my life who I really do genuinely like as a person and feel connected to?

 

[Atlas IV]

Should I terminate the relationship to prevent myself from becoming a needy little bitch and/or experiencing heartbreak when she finds someone, or is there a way forward that doesn't prematurely get rid of someone from my life who I really do genuinely like as a person and feel connected to?

I've only ever had two kinds of female friends:

1. Girls with whom there was no attraction between us whatsoever, so things remained purely platonic.
2. Girls with whom there was attraction, we slept together, and then later decided that we're better off as friends rather than lovers.

If there's sexual tension there, it's not going to go away until it finds a release. So IMO if you two have powerful chemistry and you're attracted to each other, you'd better just get it over with.

Think of it as a test of your friendship - if it's strong enough, you'll be able to say "okay, we've explored all there is to explore about each other, now we can just be friends with none of the 'what-ifs' and none of the fantasising".

Otherwise you'll remain perpetually in the unfulfilled lover-friend-zone until one of you finds another partner and then that'll be the end of it.

Just my 2c, I've never had a female friend with whom there was sexual tension and we stayed totally platonic and it worked out.

Also, don't you want to find out what the sex is like after 2 years of pent up sexual tension?

 

[iceberg slim]

Thank you for your input.

If there's sexual tension there, it's not going to go away until it finds a release.

Excellent point.

So IMO if you two have powerful chemistry and you're attracted to each other, you'd better just get it over with.

Are you saying I should tell her I want to either be together with her or part ways, and let the chips fall where they may? If so I am curious how I would go about communicating that with her.

Also, don't you want to find out what the sex is like after 2 years of pent up sexual tension?

Sure. But unless I decide I want children with her, which is what she wants and she's only got a few years left to do that, isn't it reckless for both of our hearts to pursue romance unless we are aligned on that issue? That's what I feel has kept us apart.

 

[AspiringStoic]

@iceberg slim

The best thing is to stop seeing her till you get yourself a fuck buddy or just get your dating life sorted. You spending time with her is actively hurting you. Whenever you both meet, there is a huge imbalance. She is coming there to meet you after a string of dates and you are going there while struggling with your dating life.

She comes to meet you and she has been validated by a ton of guys probably that very day or week. You go there craving for some or any kind of female validation as you at the moment do not have a dating life. This is a huge mismatch.

Your behaviour and your entire vibe will definitely be needy. It is inevitable. Only way you cannot be needy in this situation is if you had zero sexual interest in her.

The old school community had an acronym which was the prescription for anyone stuck in this kind of scenario GFTOW- Go Fuck/Find Ten Other Women!!

That is indeed what you need to do. And you wont be able to do that unless you stop meeting her.

Girls give us more than sex. They give us this feminine energy that men are drawn to. So as long as you are kind of getting a fix of that feminine energy from hanging out with this "girl friend" you are going to be way less motivated to do what you need to do.

Think about it, cold approach involves discomfort, anxiety, uncertainty, fear, rejection, potential for embarrassment, social judgment and a million other challenging emotions.

When you put hanging out for an hour or two with a girl and having a nice pleasant conversation against going out and facing all these emotions and approaching 10 girls, your brain will obviously choose the easier option.

The only way to make your brain do those hard things is to remove that safe pleasant alternative.

Apart from those hardcase newbies who are so socially lacking that they cannot even have proper normal conversations with women, for everyone else who is on this journey of learning cold approach, having women friends that you meet on a regular basis is detrimental.

It gives you that nice pleasant shelter from going out and doing the hard work. But it is doing those hard things that are ultimately going to bring you the real results that you desire and change you into the kind of man you want to become.

So in short, stop hanging out with her and go get yourself some girls. Only meet her next after you have been on a few dates or bedded a girl. Good luck!

 

[iceberg slim]

@AspiringStoic dude you brought ALL the facts to this comment. Sheesh, leave some for the other commenters would ya?

The best thing is to stop seeing her till you get yourself a fuck buddy or just get your dating life sorted. You spending time with her is actively hurting you. Whenever you both meet, there is a huge imbalance. She is coming there to meet you after a string of dates and you are going there while struggling with your dating life.

She comes to meet you and she has been validated by a ton of guys probably that very day or week. You go there craving for some or any kind of female validation as you at the moment do not have a dating life. This is a huge mismatch.

God damn, I knew this but it is helpful to hear someone else tell it to me.

Your behaviour and your entire vibe will definitely be needy. It is inevitable. Only way you cannot be needy in this situation is if you had zero sexual interest in her.

Undeniably true.

That is indeed what you need to do. And you wont be able to do that unless you stop meeting her.

Girls give us more than sex. They give us this feminine energy that men are drawn to. So as long as you are kind of getting a fix of that feminine energy from hanging out with this "girl friend" you are going to be way less motivated to do what you need to do.

That makes a ton of sense.

It sounds like you are saying to stop hanging out with her for quite some time, until I get my shit sorted, but not necessarily to totally "unfriend" her...

 

[Stark]

I've only ever had two kinds of female friends:

1. Girls with whom there was no attraction between us whatsoever, so things remained purely platonic.
2. Girls with whom there was attraction, we slept together, and then later decided that we're better off as friends rather than lovers.

Totally agree, though I might add a slight variation to first scenario.

That you like a girl, but she’s not hot enough for you to want to fuck, so you place her in friend zone.
However you don’t verbalise it. Rather make it look like it’s her idea.

She’s not hot enough for you to want to fuck, but there’s a high level of mutual hobbies and interests that she’s adding value to you whenever you hang out.

It’s non negotiable that she understands you’re actively trying to fuck new girls.

So you can pawn her off to get new girls whenever both of you hang out at social events.

—-

@iceberg slim - There’s only one way to heal a rotten tooth if the pain persists for 2 years. Rip it off.

It’s unlikely that you’ll ever get to lay her. If it had to happen, it would have happened within a year (at the max).

If she wasn’t dating, I understand you you wanted to keep seeing her.

She’s actively dating.

Preserve what’s remaining of your self respect. Make a plan to date(and fuck) girls consistently. Execute it.

You have the skills.

Agree with everything @AspiringStoic said!

 

[gameboy]

goes on shitloads of dates with guys she meets on apps

For sure she's banging at least a few of those, but won't tell you about it to keep you nicely in her back pocket.

 

[iceberg slim]

There’s only one way to heal a rotten tooth if the pain persists for 2 years. Rip it off.

Facts.

Edit: you don't think "major surgery" is possible instead of full removal? Ie - take a break (maybe a permanent one, but don't totally "break up with her") until I get my shit sorted. She really has been a wonderful source of support for me.

 

[AspiringStoic]

She really has been a wonderful source of support for me.

That is one of the main reasons why you have probably not fixed your dating life. You are getting this pseudo girlfriend kind of experience from her.

This kind of support is best gotten from family, male friends or girlfriends and sexual partners. Getting this kind of stuff from a girl who is a "friend" especially one who you initially approached with a romantic intention always gets really messy.

And the fact that you are so concerned about what is the best strategy on how to deal with her itself is a glaring indicator of the neediness you have towards her.

You need to be spending all this "how should I handle this" thought loops on fixing your dating life rather than deciding what to do with her.

So best thing would be, dont make plans to meet with her, do not text her, just respond cordially if she reaches out but still do not make plans to see her even if she reaches out.

And use all the mental energy you save from this to actually cold approach and get some real options!

 

[AspiringStoic]

It’s unlikely that you’ll ever get to lay her.

100 percent agree. And if it ever happens, it can only happen when you have fucked other girls, forgotten about her, taken her off the pedestal and dont really care if you lay her.

 

[Will_V]

Good comments here.

don't totally "break up with her") until I get my shit sorted. She really has been a wonderful source of support for me.

You need to sit down and decide exactly what role she's going to play in your life from now on, and stick to it. You can't be oscillating from friendship to girlfriend to fb to whatever else, she'll quickly get sick of it and disappear.

Understand that time spent with a girl equals emotional attachment, for a man. The lonelier you are the faster and stronger that attachment forms. That's why you only spend time with girls you want something with, and you spend time proportionally to the role you want her to play in your life. It's not just so she doesn't get attached or confused about what's happening, it's also for you.

You've spent two years hanging around this girl and now you are deeply attached with sex nowhere in sight. This is why the idea is to sleep with a girl fast, evaluate her, decide what role she's fit for, and then proceed with time investment accordingly.

 

[DArtagnan]

But do you guys think there is no way of at least trying to make something happen with her? I've had some bad experiences myself when trying to "change" from the friend slot to the lover's in the past. I did it once when I was around 16, and the girl literally ran away crying from me, then a friend of hers came shouting at me for having hurt her. The girl could not accept that I wanted to be more than friends. Recently I had a similar experience, although less extreme, but the girl did get pissed off when I opened up to her.

But maybe it's because I didn't have any finesse or game? Isn't there a better way of at least trying it? Than we can at least end such a relationship knowing that we tried?

Oh... maybe I'm thinking now... the best way is getting away, date, have some preselection again, then come back... which seems to be what you guys are already suggesting...

 

[gameboy]

You don't have to cut her out forever. But once you actually meet other girls and have sex with them, you probably won't even feel the same about this one anymore anyway. If you then still want to make something happen with her, you'll have a much better chance because you won't be coming from a place of neediness but from a much sexier frame.

EDIT: I would advise against that being your goal though. The goal should be to diversify your sources of female validation, not to find a "workaround" to get into her pants after all.

 

[iceberg slim]

Thank you everyone for your excellent comments. Super super helpful.

The old school community had an acronym which was the prescription for anyone stuck in this kind of scenario GFTOW- Go Fuck/Find Ten Other Women!!

Funny enough, I've been with 8 or 9 chicks since I met her (and she knows about it. I wasn't acting all nice and docile with her; I was open about meeting and getting together with other women). When I was doing well, my neediness for her was low/non existent. But now that I'm in scarcity, the neediness is raging.

Preserve what’s remaining of your self respect. Make a plan to date(and fuck) girls consistently. Execute it.

Yup. Roger that.

That is one of the main reasons why you have probably not fixed your dating life. You are getting this pseudo girlfriend kind of experience from her.

This kind of support is best gotten from family, male friends or girlfriends and sexual partners. Getting this kind of stuff from a girl who is a "friend" especially one who you initially approached with a romantic intention always gets really messy.

And the fact that you are so concerned about what is the best strategy on how to deal with her itself is a glaring indicator of the neediness you have towards her.

You need to be spending all this "how should I handle this" thought loops on fixing your dating life rather than deciding what to do with her.

So best thing would be, dont make plans to meet with her, do not text her, just respond cordially if she reaches out but still do not make plans to see her even if she reaches out.

And use all the mental energy you save from this to actually cold approach and get some real options!

Too true. I like your strategy. However I did invite her to a show and she agreed. So I need to patch that up in some way. Do you have a recommendation? I don't want to just go radio silent on her after we agreed to do something specific. I think there is a component here of being a person with integrity by closing that loop somehow. But yes, I don't really want to see her again, at least not any time soon.

You need to sit down and decide exactly what role she's going to play in your life from now on, and stick to it. You can't be oscillating from friendship to girlfriend to fb to whatever else, she'll quickly get sick of it and disappear.

I honestly don't see what role she could play, other than someone I used to know and like, and who I maybe text with occasionally. The severity of my feelings is such that I don't see any healthy way of coming back from this, other than moving on.

Understand that time spent with a girl equals emotional attachment, for a man. The lonelier you are the faster and stronger that attachment forms. That's why you only spend time with girls you want something with, and you spend time proportionally to the role you want her to play in your life. It's not just so she doesn't get attached or confused about what's happening, it's also for you.

You've spent two years hanging around this girl and now you are deeply attached with sex nowhere in sight. This is why the idea is to sleep with a girl fast, evaluate her, decide what role she's fit for, and then proceed with time investment accordingly.

Yeah, it's bad. And yes, I do understand that now, on a very visceral level.

 

[AspiringStoic]

Too true. I like your strategy. However I did invite her to a show and she agreed. So I need to patch that up in some way. Do you have a recommendation?

Come on, you know the answer to this. You cancel it like people cancel plans and like you have cancelled plans with people probably a million times in your life so far.

 

[empath]

Did not read properly but.

If you have value to her and forget about right or wrong.

Just be less avaiable to her.

If you meet escalate physically.

Prolong your eye contact, etc.

Be more sexy around her.

If she stops you, say you can't.

Ghost her time to time and the get back in her life.

Until she realise either she can't put up with your behaviour or has feelings for you.

Either she gives her pussy or she removes u from life.

Her going out of your life will do you a favor.

Play to win